Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“Since taking up this role, I have fielded many questions about creating a register that operates not just here but on an all-Ireland basis. I asked my officials to re-examine all of the available evidence, and I met my counterpart in the Irish Government, Minister Charlie McConalogue, to determine whether there was a desire for some sort of cross-border register. The legal complexities and protections that were present in 2014, when the ask was first made, still pertain today. We cannot shy away from the fact that there are safeguards in sharing personal data and that those are difficult to overcome. <BR /> <BR />My officials have advised me that one potential workaround would be for my Department to put in place a team that would have access to the Causeway system.”
“The final report, which addressed the matter, was formally published by the then Minister, Michelle McIlveen, in November 2016.”
“The review concluded that a better option was to continue to focus resources on front-line enforcement duties. Many organisations also stated that they deployed a range of different measures to provide assurance regarding the suitability of those to whom an animal is rehomed.”
“In short, criminal records data is deemed to be highly sensitive personal information, and the bar to access that information is set at a high level. <BR /> <BR />The review also found that, even if a case could be made for public access, organisations would have to sign up to a data sharing agreement and must abide by strict control procedures. Finally, it found that the creation of a central list that was made available to non-statutory bodies would engage difficult and complex issues around freedom of information, data protection, the rehabilitation of offenders and protecting certain human rights, particularly the right to life and the right to a family life. <BR /> <BR />Following that analysis, there was insufficient evidence or justification to recommend that a register be established.”
“As part of that review, stakeholders asked that consideration be given to publishing the names and details of offenders on a central list. In essence, such a central list already exists. Data on convictions is held on the Department of Justice's Causeway system and can be accessed via the criminal records viewer (CRV). Officials determined that it would be possible, in theory, for organisations beyond the criminal justice system to access the criminal records viewer, but each organisation wishing to do so must be able to demonstrate a legitimate business need, such as national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country; the prevention of disorder or crime; the protection of health or morals; and the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.”
“<BR /> <BR />From the statistical data that has been supplied to me covering the period from 2018 to 2022, I am aware of four people who were found to have breached a ban on keeping animals. Even one person breaching a ban is too many, so, be assured that, where a breach of a ban is detected, action is being, and will be, taken. <BR /> <BR />On a register of animal welfare offenders, which is the substantial aim of the motion, it is not the first time that my Department has been asked to consider establishing a register of offenders. The desire to implement a register first surfaced in 2014, when the then Minister, Michelle O'Neill, instigated a review of the implementation of the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011.”
“A person can also be banned from participating in the keeping of animals, having influence on the keeping of animals, transporting animals or even arranging the transport of animals. When a disqualification order is handed down, the court can also take any animals that the person owns from them and arrange for them to be disposed of. Finally, if a person who has received the disqualification order holds a licence for a regulated activity involving animals, that licence can be revoked. I reiterate that the decision to impose a disqualification order does not rest with my Department, the council or the police. The decision to impose that order is a sanction that can be applied only by a judge.”
“I will endeavour to provide some detail around current powers because, as the motion suggests, the law here already enables individuals to be prohibited from owning animals. When a person is convicted of either a section 4 offence, causing unnecessary suffering, or a section 9 offence, failing to meet the needs of animal, a court has the discretion to impose what is known as a disqualification order. The nature and intent of disqualification orders can be varied, which gives the court scope to deal with a broad range of circumstances. For example, a person can be disqualified from owning animals for a defined period of time or given a lifetime ban, depending on the gravity of the case.”
“I want to make it clear that I respect the role of the judiciary here and the importance of impartiality, and I highlight to Members that the full use of the sentencing that is available is a matter for judges who do take into account the individual aspects of any particular animal welfare case that is before them. <BR /> <BR />On bans and disqualification orders, the motion states:”
“Her office made it clear that sentences must be based solely on the evidence that is provided and take appropriate account of any sentencing guidelines and mitigating and aggravating factors. <BR /> <BR />The sentencing guidelines for animal welfare offences are published and available to view on the Judiciary NI website. Those guidelines were most recently updated in November 2018. Any case for further update of those guidelines is a matter on which I will engage with stakeholders in the time ahead. I will talk about that planned engagement with stakeholders. With respect to the sentences that are available, I am content that the range of penalties that are available here is appropriate and on par with what is available to judges across the rest of the UK.”
“It is important that we get an understanding of prosecution policy and which factors determine how a case is handled. It is vital that the organisations in the justice system, which are, quite rightly, focused on their own responsibilities and functions, be made aware of the public's views on animal welfare and how they expect those who inflict pain and suffering on animals will be punished. We must get maximum utility out of the powers that we have. I am conscious that my predecessor, Edwin Poots MLA, now Speaker of the House, wrote to the Lady Chief Justice in 2021 to seek clarity on sentencing guidelines. The Lady Chief Justice's office advised that judges are very conscious of their range of sentencing powers when passing sentences.”
“My understanding is that its decision depends on the severity and circumstances of the case, and the maximum sentences available will differ depending on where the case is heard. When the PPS determines that a case be heard in the Crown Court, the maximum sentence is five years' imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine. <BR /> <BR />It is clear from the correspondence that I receive that the citizens of Northern Ireland view animal welfare offences as some of the most serious types of offence. Some of the letters highlight a disparity between the expectations of the public and how those cases are processed in the judicial system. I recently asked my officials to engage with the statutory agencies across the justice system to better understand the rationale when they determine which court will hear animal welfare offence cases.”
“I must stress, however, that I cannot control how animal welfare prosecutions are taken forward, nor can I dictate what sentences should be handed down by the judiciary. Quite rightly, no Minister has the power to intervene and take charge of criminal cases. I am not shirking responsibility, but I want to be frank when I say that there is no legislation that I can commend to the House that would resolve everyone's frustrations around sentencing. <BR /> <BR />The courts and judiciary operate independently and are free from government influence. No matter how worthy the subject under scrutiny, that should always be the case. At present, the Public Prosecution Service could choose to send animal welfare cases to the Crown Court rather than to the Magistrates' Court.”
“Those included the ability to refer animal welfare cases to the Crown Court and the potential for five-year custodial sentences. <BR /> <BR />The new sanctions became law in 2015, and, at that juncture, Northern Ireland had the toughest penalties for animal welfare offences in the UK and Ireland. It was viewed as a triumph for animal welfare and a recognition that the House and the people of Northern Ireland would not tolerate animal cruelty. Tellingly, Scotland enacted five-year sentences only in 2020, with England and Wales following suit in 2021. Therefore, it is evident that we have the tools and ultimate sanctions to deal with offending. <BR /> <BR />Our animal welfare laws are on a par with anywhere in these islands.”
“Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank Members for the respectful debate and for the opportunity to respond. <BR /> <BR />I understand and empathise with the concerns of Members, stakeholders and the public about animal welfare sentencing. The Welfare of Animals Act 2011 made it an offence to inflict unnecessary suffering on an animal. At that point, the offence was triable in a Magistrates' Court, and the maximum available sentence was six months in prison. In 2014, Members raised concerns with the then Minister about the limitations of the penalties in the Act, following a horrendous animal welfare case in which the perpetrators received suspended sentences. The Minister listened and undertook a review, and parties in the House worked together to introduce tougher sanctions.”
“We need to tackle the agricultural issues, but we also need to tackle the issues associated with waste water infrastructure. I am determined that whatever I do will be fair and proportionate.”
“My vision is to have an environment, where our water bodies are at good status or better, support biodiversity and contribute to the health and well-being of everyone. There is a significant amount of work to do alongside our stakeholders, which will take time and resources. <BR /> <BR />In the seconds that I have left to speak, I will mention two key actions that are critical in the weeks ahead. One is the publication and consultation on the nutrient action programme (NAP), which is critical. If Members are going to back the motion today, they need to back me on the actions that we need to take. The other is for us to work together to find a way to address the need for infrastructure investment in waste water infrastructure.”
“It is something that I have mentioned at the North/South Ministerial Council and the inter-ministerial group. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I need to mention resources. DAERA, like all other Departments, is working with a very tight budget, underpinned by significant resource pressures, and, while our ambition and determination remain high, the pace of progress in addressing the problems at Lough Neagh and other waterways across Northern Ireland will depend, to some extent, on the funding available. Achieving a substantial improvement in water quality will take many years due to the complex nature of the issues. The issues were decades in the making and will be decades in the fixing. The changes required are fundamental, and many will require significant investment.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the report, and I intend to consider other policies and measures that will go some way to reducing pollution, improving habitat conditions and reducing biodiversity loss. DAERA's environment fund covers the water quality improvement strand of the grant funding, which is administered by NIEA and focuses on community and voluntary delivery of water quality improvement. <BR /> <BR />In outlining actions to improve water quality, it would be remiss of me not to mention the excellent collaboration taking place with colleagues in Ireland and GB. I place the highest priority on engagement with colleagues in GB and Ireland. Sharing learning, expertise and knowledge will be crucial if we are to address the complex water quality issues that affect us all.”
“The short time allowed for this response precludes me from mentioning many more examples, but I can advise that the Northern Ireland Environment Agency has held several working group meetings for key stakeholders to consider sector-specific measures. Work is also continuing on the delivery of a number of initiatives, such as the soil nutrient health scheme. That scheme has been recognised globally as a way to provide farmers with data to help them improve their nutrient management, farm performance and environmental sustainability. That important scheme will help to address nutrient pollution, which has been identified as one of the key drivers of biodiversity loss, and that was highlighted in the OEP report that was published today.”
“I am fully committed to implementing the remaining actions as quickly as resources allow. However, it has always been clear that, given the size of Lough Neagh's catchment, the Lough Neagh action plan must be seen in the context of the environmental improvement plan. I was therefore delighted that that was published on 27 September, after approval by the Executive. It will deliver a cohesive and integrated approach to environmental protection, which is key for any meaningful, sustained improvement to water quality across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />In addition, although the river basin management plan remains in draft, I can assure Members that work to improve water quality is continuing while we await the publication of the plan.”
“Yes. I will stand here and be held accountable for what I do in the Department, but I will not be accountable for the stop-go government that has impacted on our environment and public services in Northern Ireland. I am working hard to address those issues. I am working hard to work with people, but I need time to do that. The loss of two years of this mandate is also affecting our ability to introduce legislation because we have a constrained mandate. I am focused on the future, but it was important that I quoted from the report. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to report that good progress has been made on a number of actions, including the development of the Lough Neagh science platform, the launch of two small business research initiatives and the implementation of the inter-agency blue-green algae monitoring protocol.”
“The motion demands immediate action, and I am committed to that reality. Before I continue, I will remind Members of what the report from the OEP stated by quoting from it:”
“I am working with my officials to consider the recommendations in the report in detail and to provide a full response by the start of December, in line with the required time frames. <BR /> <BR />I am aware of DAERA's statutory responsibilities with regard to publication of the river basin management plan, and I assure Members that I take them extremely seriously. On that basis, I am giving that work my highest priority, with a view to bringing the third cycle river basin management plan to the Executive for approval as soon as possible. In doing so, I will seek to achieve a balance between the completion of the delayed third cycle and being ready to take forward work on the next cycle. <BR /> <BR />Following the Executive's approval of the Lough Neagh report and action plan on 18 July, my focus has turned to implementation.”
“I will not be able to take many more interventions because I need to get through my speech — it is important that I do so — but that is not a discourtesy to anyone else. <BR /> <BR />I have to take the plan to the Executive for approval, so, hopefully, the Executive will agree it. I just need to abide by the law. <BR /> <BR />My officials and I have already engaged constructively with the OEP. I welcome the report as a positive contribution to DAERA's focus on the water environment. I did not reject the report; I accepted the recommendations and have had constructive engagement with OEP. Furthermore, it is a timely reminder of the work that is required to improve water quality by not only the Government but the public and private sectors, including local government and the wider community.”
“<BR /> <BR />In particular, the Office for Environmental Protection's report, 'A review of implementation of the Water Framework Directive Regulations and River Basin Management Planning in Northern Ireland', which was published in September, makes 16 recommendations to the Assembly, Executive and DAERA. The recommendations aim to improve the effectiveness of the Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2017 and their application, increase the likelihood and pace of meeting environmental objectives and the wider obligations and commitments that depend on them and strengthen their interaction with other measures.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are all aware of the devastating impact of nutrient pollution on our waterways, particularly at Lough Neagh. The issues have been highlighted in reports from the Northern Ireland Audit Office and the Office for Environmental Protection, and our initial plan to tackle them head-on is outlined in the recently Executive-approved Lough Neagh action plan. The draft river basin management plan is being reviewed in the light of the findings and recommendations in those reports. As stated in the Lough Neagh report and action plan, the review will be completed by the end of December 2024 and subsequently published, subject to Executive approval.”
“The draft third cycle river basin management plan for 2021-27 takes an integrated approach to the protection, improvement and sustainable use of the water environment. It contains a programme of measures, setting out the actions required to protect and improve all water bodies — river, lake and marine, coastal and transitional — and groundwater. It was published in April 2021 for a six-month statutory consultation period. While the plan was finalised in October 2022, it could not be published without Executive approval due to its cross-cutting nature, and it now needs to be brought to the Executive for approval ahead of publication. However, there have been major developments in water quality issues since the draft river basin management plan was completed.”
“The situation at Lough Neagh has been decades in the making. It is a sobering wake-up call for us all. As the Minister with primary responsibility for water quality, I accept that it is far from what it should be. There is no quick fix, but, while I do not underestimate the huge challenge that lies ahead, I am optimistic. I will advise Members of some of the important work taking place across DAERA that, I believe, will set us on the road to recovery. <BR /> <BR />I turn first to the main topic of the motion: the river basin management plan. Under the Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2017, DAERA must review and update the river basin management plans every six years, setting out how water quality will be improved across Northern Ireland.”
“I also wish to use this opportunity to reassure Members that, while the plan has not yet been published, improving water quality in water bodies across Northern Ireland is one of my highest priorities.”
“I thank all the Members who contributed to the debate. The importance of the issues outlined in the motion cannot be overstated, and I am grateful to Members for bringing them to the Floor today. <BR /> <BR />In responding to the motion, I will outline the current position regarding the third cycle river basin management plan, which is in draft.”
“To ensure the facilitation of trade on the global market, it is important that the regulations are in place in Northern Ireland. I urge Members to vote against the prayer of annulment.”
“<BR /> <BR />Not having the legislation would leave Northern Ireland as the only region of the UK without enforcement powers. Should a producer wish to begin growing hops in Northern Ireland, in the absence of the legislation, their produce could not be certified. Northern Ireland would be the only region in the UK where a producer would be unable to have their produce certified. Annulling the legislation therefore has the potential to create divergence between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, I am committed to ensuring that hop stakeholders, such as local breweries, hobbyists and supply specialists, continue to be able to import hops of a high standard into Northern Ireland.”
“A lack of powers to perform the necessary checks on hop consignments from third countries has the potential to impact negatively on consumer confidence and protection. For instance, not being able to enforce the movement of hops into Northern Ireland could allow products of a lesser standard to come into our local market. We should not risk Northern Ireland's reputation for always providing a good-quality pint. <BR /> <BR />In the absence of the legislation, the Department is not fulfilling its responsibilities under the withdrawal agreement. There is a risk of the UK Government being subject to EU infringement proceedings for failing to implement EU regulations that fall under annex 2 of the Windsor framework, something that we can ill afford. It is something that, given our cost pressures, such as those at Lough Neagh, we should do.”
“During those Committee meetings and in the debate today, Members have raised concerns and questions as to whether the hops statutory rule will create divergence from Great Britain and whether the legislation is required at all, as there are currently no hops producers in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />As has been stated, the proposed changes to current legislation are technical and will not represent a deviation from the underlying policy position in Great Britain. Many of the small changes are, in fact, positive: for example, enabling hard copy and digital documentation and an extra two weeks to report to the Rural Payments Agency, a certification and enforcement authority. <BR /> <BR />Whilst there are no hop growers in Northern Ireland, there are businesses that import hops.”
“<BR /> <BR />To ensure that the voices of stakeholders were heard early in the process, the hops statutory rule was the subject of a consultation between 7 May 2024 and 2 July 2024. The Department received no responses to the consultation. That was not unforeseen. There are currently no hop growers in Northern Ireland, and the new hops statutory rule simply updates references to the new EU rules so as to maintain enforcement powers in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />During and after the consultation period, officials from my Department provided two oral briefings to the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee.”
“Those regulations replaced and revoked previous regulations on the importation of hops from third countries and hops certification, both of which are listed in annex 2 of the Windsor framework. As a result of that, Northern Ireland is required to comply with the new updated hops regulations. <BR /> <BR />The publication of the new hops regulations has led to a loss of enforcement powers for various Northern Ireland hops bodies, specifically the Rural Payments Agency for hops certification and DAERA's Forest Service for checks on hops consignments imported from third countries. With that in mind, my Department wishes to update the domestic Hops Certification Regulations 1979 on a Northern Ireland basis to reinstate lost enforcement and certification powers.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I will begin by setting out the context to explain why my Department has laid the Hops Certification (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024. Until December 2023, the UK's domestic hops regulations — the Hops Certification Regulations 1979, which were made just a few years after I was born — were aligned with those of the European Union. However, the European Union introduced two new pieces of legislation. First, in December 2023, the Commission published new implementing and delegated regulations (EU) 2023/2834 and (EU) 2023/2835 for the import of rice, cereal, sugar and hops from third countries in the Official Journal. Following that, the Commission published new implementing and delegated regulations (EU) 2024/601 and (EU) 2024/602 for hops certification in March 2024.”
“I will touch on the issue of prevention. We need to get to a situation where it does not occur and no one is subjected to domestic or sexual abuse. That is about support for the police, which we need to work collectively on, but also about wider society. It is also partly about attitudes. People need to be conscious of what they say and what they post on social media about women and girls in Northern Ireland. We need to draw a line under that and ensure that we all stand together in saying that some of the attitudes that have been expressed are entirely unacceptable.”
“The Member raises a legitimate point. A challenge for us with regard to budgets for the next financial year is how we can support and deliver those services across Northern Ireland. There is a collective will here, so let us ensure that we can work together. A strong message should be sent that this is entirely wrong and is a concern for us. We should support people in need.”
“The issue is too serious to drag it into that. The collective issue for the Executive is the budgets that we have and how we can fund our public services. We need to work on that issue with the UK Government to ensure that we can fund not just the Police Service but the community and voluntary organisations that we have mentioned and our criminal justice system. I will say no more. As someone who saw his mother being a victim of domestic abuse, my focus is on the victims today.”
“The Member highlights the funding challenges that we as an Executive face. She also highlights the need to be able to support organisations such as the one that she mentioned and to do much more than that in the community and voluntary sector in order to provide the necessary assistance. In the circumstances in my family, Women's Aid was excellent in the support that it gave. That is why it is important that we work with the Finance Minister on the financial settlement that we get for Northern Ireland. Our departmental budgets are not sufficient, and we are not able to deliver the services that we ought to be delivering across Northern Ireland. I will bring the issues that the Member has raised with me to the Justice Minister.”
“I am hesitant to talk about individual cases, particularly the Mary Ward case, because it is currently in the criminal justice system. Every situation that we hear about is of massive concern, not only to me but to everyone in the Chamber. That is why I am glad that we are able to agree such strategies. We have a collective role to play in challenging some of the misogynistic attitudes in society and in encouraging people to make a report to the police at the earliest opportunity. I could give examples but will not do so of many cases in which the police were being contacted a number of years into a very violent relationship, and sometimes, unfortunately, that was too late.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There is always scope to do things better. It is one of the issues with the constrained mandate that we have left for legislative reform. We lost two years, and we are now working through the rest of the mandate. That is why it is important that, when we are introducing legislation, we ensure that it is properly scrutinised and given proper consideration and that we are able to make it progress through the Assembly so that we can deliver for the victims in Northern Ireland.”
“The sentencing framework for crimes is a matter that is often discussed, and I know that it is reviewed in many instances. It has to be taken into account. You mention children and young people, and it is about ensuring that we support them, because they are often the most significant victims and live with it for the rest of their life. We need to ensure that we are supporting them, and that is why it is important that the Department of Justice work with the Department of Health and the Department of Education. Further linkages have been established in recent times. As a member of a board of governors, I know that phone calls are often received to the school the night before so that the school is then aware that there are issues at home.”
“I welcome Leonard Consultancy's review of the MARAC process. The Justice Minister has indicated that she is committed to ensuring that the risk posed to victims of domestic abuse is assessed and managed as effectively as possible. Her Department has set up a dedicated multi-agency oversight group to consider the report's recommendations and develop costed options for reform, informed by a number of working groups that have been established and will report to it. The oversight group's core membership includes the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and the police, with other organisations invited to contribute. This oversight group will also seek to take account of the views and experience of partners in the community and voluntary sector.”
“The Justice Minister is unavailable to answer questions in the Chamber today, and I am happy to answer questions from Members on the issue.”
“The Member says that this is a serious issue. In all our discussions today and thereafter we have to take a victim-centred approach. I am happy to discuss this with my colleague the Justice Minister after Question Time and in due course. I recognise the issue that the Member raises. It is an important issue and we need to be victim-centred.”
“There is regular engagement between the Justice Minister and the PSNI. This subject will feature in many of their meetings and discussions. It is also one of the issues where we collectively need to support the police so that they have the resources to deal with it. This is a collective effort, not just for the police, but for us all.”
“I recognise the need for funding to be provided to support delivery of outcomes under the draft strategy. The Minister of Justice has indicated that she will continue to use her seat on the Executive to argue for adequate funding to be made available to allow us to respond effectively to reduce and eliminate domestic and sexual abuse, safeguard those at risk, support those who have experienced it and bring perpetrators to justice. However, I also acknowledge the budgetary constraints that are faced across the whole of public-sector funding and recognise the need for us to focus on priorities and work collaboratively to ensure that limited resources are used effectively and efficiently deliver results. In 2024-25, the DSA ring-fenced budget is £1·62 million.”