Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“<BR /> <BR />My Department has led on the soon-to-be-launched small business research initiative to explore potential solutions to treat and reduce blue-green algae blooms without impacting the natural environment of Lough Neagh and associated Northern Ireland waterways. It has also led on the development of an inter-agency monitoring protocol to support the response to blue-green algae issues this year. The protocol has been published on DAERA’s website, and provides guidance on how water users should consider blue-green algae risks and details the Department’s monitoring response. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to confirm that action on the ground has already commenced.”
“Although there are no quick fixes for the problems at Lough Neagh, I am pleased to provide an update on the actions that my Department is taking to tackle them. <BR /> <BR />DAERA has led on the development of a report that contains evidence-based actions to tackle the blue-green algae blooms in the lough and secure longer-term improvements in water quality across Northern Ireland. However, approval by the Executive of the draft environmental improvement plan (EIP) is key to taking a strategic approach to the issues facing Lough Neagh in the context of the wider catchment area. I will continue to engage with Executive colleagues to seek their approval on the draft EIP and the Lough Neagh report.”
“My Department has provided approximately £622,000 to 67 projects across Northern Ireland over the lifetime of the scheme. The marine litter capital grants scheme was launched for three years in 2021-22, with the third and final year of funding ending in March 2024. The aim of the scheme was to tackle the litter that enters our marine environment, causing harm to marine biodiversity and to the health and well-being of our communities. The funding also helped to improve the environmental management of public areas to reduce marine litter.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am working on that with officials and want to progress it because it is important that we use those legislative tools to address the issues that are being discussed.”
“The House has to send a united message that that is wrong and that penalties are associated with it. I am keen to work with councils to see what more we can do to. <BR /> <BR />My Department provides significant support to, for example, Keep Northern Ireland Beautiful to tackle the scourge of littering at source. In the current financial year, Keep Northern Ireland Beautiful was awarded £816,000 through the environment fund. There is much that we can do with our communities, with councils or as MLAs to stamp out the problem.”
“In addition, legislation was introduced in December 2022 to increase the maximum fixed penalty notice that councils can set for littering offences from £80 to £200 to act as a stronger deterrent to littering. My Department has also provided funding to a number of projects specifically aimed at tackling the problem of marine litter through the marine litter capital grants scheme, which improves environmental management of local public areas by reducing marine litter. <BR /> <BR />The draft environmental improvement plan (EIP), which is subject to Executive approval, includes a commitment to publish the first litter strategy for Northern Ireland, which will include strategies for tackling marine litter.”
“Littering is a blight on our precious environment, and I am strongly committed to and actively working towards reducing the number of littering offences throughout Northern Ireland using the combined approach of legislation, education and enforcement. I am aware of the continuing problem of litter, especially in the marine environment, and I am conscious of its impacts along the beautiful beaches of the north coast and our whole coastline. <BR /> <BR />My Department continues to work with our stakeholders, such as Keep Northern Ireland Beautiful, Northern Ireland Water, the National Trust and Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council to reduce the volume of litter entering our marine environment.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I have outlined to the Committee the number of businesses that will be affected, and my officials have engaged on that. The number of businesses that will be affected is relatively small, but I understand the case that is being made in the Chamber and am happy to engage with the Committee on the issue so that we can find a way forward.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I outlined, there is a farming with nature package that is a key intervention, and I am keen to see what support we can provide to specific sectors, particularly the horticulture sector.”
“My Department and I are against no one: we are trying to find a balanced way forward. The person in the Chair will be aware of the issues that we are discussing. I am happy to consider the issues further at the Committee.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He outlines clearly the case for 3 hectares. I am happy to attend the Committee in the week commencing 8 July and for that to be added to the agenda so that we can have a further discussion about it. I think that most people know that I want to engage with people and find a way forward for the future farm support development programme that we can all buy into.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There has been significant stakeholder engagement and consultation, primarily through the agriculture policy stakeholder group. I am aware of the figures in relation to the impact, but I am trying to balance future farm support policy in Northern Ireland. I get some of the concerns about support for horticulture. I am exploring that further with officials.”
“On the basis of the consultation responses, the decision was announced in March 2022 that the minimum claim size would increase to 5 hectares. I am not currently planning to reverse the decision to increase the minimum claim size. Work is progressing to ensure that the secondary legislation requirements will be in place by the autumn. <BR /> <BR />On the basis of the 2023 basic payment scheme application data, the number of farm businesses that may be impacted by the move to 5 hectares of eligible land for the farm sustainability transition payment and farm sustainability payment is around 1,400. All land managers with 3 hectares or more of eligible land and who meet the scheme requirements will be able to participate in the farming with nature package when it comes on stream.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will answer questions 4 and 9 together. <BR /> <BR />As announced in March 2022, the new farm sustainability payment, which is planned to replace the basic payment scheme, will provide a balance between providing a safety net that will help a farm business to withstand shocks that are beyond its ability to manage effectively and encouraging farm businesses to be sustainable, efficient, competitive and able to manage risk proactively. <BR /> <BR />A public consultation on the policy proposal to increase the minimum claim size to 10 hectares took place in December 2021. The proposal in the consultation to increase the threshold to 10 hectares generated significant stakeholder concern.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is important that enforcement action that we take around environmental crime, particularly in relation to water pollution, is fair and balanced. I am aware of the concerns about Northern Ireland Water and the arrangements that are in place, which are known as "SORPI", between the Northern Ireland Environment Agency and Northern Ireland Water. I made it clear in the documentary that we need to call time on SORPI. I want to engage with the Minister for Infrastructure on the issue, and I have been engaging with my officials on it. The situation in which Northern Ireland Water gets, essentially, a bye-ball for the pollution of our waterways needs to end.”
“We are also doing work on environmental governance, as I have outlined, including the case for an independent environmental protection agency. In addition, I will engage with Moy Park to outline my severe concern about the pattern of cumulative breaches and to seek plans for how it intends to swiftly rectify those issues.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am doing that and will continue to do so, because it is important that there is stakeholder engagement on the issues. <BR /> <BR />I am aware of what was reported in the 'Spotlight' programme a few weeks ago. It was extremely difficult and concerning viewing not just for me but for the people of Northern Ireland, and I have been acting on what was reported in it. The Northern Ireland Environment Agency is now reviewing its protocols on how it works with Northern Ireland Water in terms of the enforcement of trade discharge consent breaches. We are also considering how we monitor and respond to cases of lower risk but, importantly, cumulative trade discharge consent breaches. It is important that we consider when there are cumulative breaches on this.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have a lot of respect for the officials in the Northern Ireland Environment Agency. However, ultimately, I do not believe that it should be part of my Department; it should be independent. We are taking action on this. I look forward to engaging with Members and society on the issue over the time ahead, because I recognise its importance.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Member will be aware of the issues around establishing an environmental protection agency because a colleague of his held the Environment Ministry previously. It is something that I am taking up in the environmental governance review. I intend to make announcements over the time ahead on the next steps. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we follow due process if we are taking the road ahead in establishing an independent environmental protection agency. It is something that I believe in, and it was in 'New Decade, New Approach'. It is important to establish it correctly, so that it has the correct powers and the ability to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland. I am moving on that at pace, because it is important that we have an independent environmental protection agency.”
“I also want to take further measures, one of which is a review of the sentencing framework for environmental crime. I am keen to do that in conjunction with the Justice Minister. It is absolutely fundamental that we do that and that we review the regulation around the issue. It is something that we put a lot of effort into. The fish kills that have been reported in recent days anger me, because they really damage our environment. We need to address it and to ensure that we take action to prevent it occurring again.”
“I thank the Member for her question. She touches on a number of matters. Does the Northern Ireland Environment Agency have the resources that it needs? No, it does not, but I am reprioritising within my Department to give it what I can. I will bid in future Budgets for future years to see whether we can further increase the resources for the Northern Ireland Environment Agency. It is important that it has those resources so that it can respond to those incidents promptly. It is important to send the message today that, if anyone is aware of any water pollution incident, they should report it promptly to the pollution hotline to enable a response. <BR /> <BR />I have established the enforcement team in the Lough Neagh catchment area as a first step in taking action on this.”
“That is why I have allocated resources from my departmental budget to strengthen regulation and enforcement, particularly in relation to water quality. That will enable the establishment of an enforcement team dedicated to tackling the problems of Lough Neagh and its catchment, together with a commitment to see radical changes to the regulatory approach currently set out in the statement of regulatory principles and intent, otherwise known as "SORPI", relating to NI Water discharges. Enforcement action is taken against non-compliance in line with DAERA's enforcement policy. The Northern Ireland Environment Agency undertakes a range of enforcement actions from warning letters to the issuing of statutory notices and prosecutions.”
“Whilst the Northern Ireland Environment Agency proactively regulates and enforces current regulations to protect our environment, I recognise that we need to do more.”
“The Water (Northern Ireland) Order 1999 serves as the pivotal legislative framework for Northern Ireland and governs the protection of the aquatic environment. The order also provides powers to take enforcement action against uncontrolled discharges that are a risk of pollution to the aquatic environment. A person guilty of an offence under article 7 of the order is liable on conviction:”
“I have looked at the sentencing framework for animal cruelty offences. I want to engage with stakeholders on the priorities for the time ahead, because we can prioritise that, but we also have to look at the other areas that we want to look at. I am aware of the frustration with the criminal justice outcomes, and I get that. I want to explore the work that we can do with stakeholders to address those concerns.”
“There is a lot of merit. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Charlie McConalogue, announced on 7 May 2024 that he would introduce a regulation in the coming months to ban the use of manually operated, remotely controlled electric shock collars. The proposal by the Minister does not include anti-bark collars or collars linked to perimeter fence systems. I wish to engage with my colleagues in the South on whatever we can do together to outlaw and ban animal cruelty on the island of Ireland and across the United Kingdom.”
“I want to go further than that: rather than only supporting the district councils, I want to support the charities. I am exploring with officials how, if the budget allows, to support the good work that they do.”
“I thank the Member for his question. First, I put on record my thanks to the district councils for their work in relation to this. I am grateful for that, and we have good partnership working with regard to it. The Member will be aware that the budget settlement my Department received at the beginning of the financial year is extremely demanding and stretched, particularly when my bid to continue the compensation scheme for bovine TB at 100% received nothing. The pressures on my Department are immense as a result of that. However, I want to help councils with that work, and I have made a bid for funding as part of the June monitoring. I am aware that there are ongoing judicial review proceedings on the matter, but I am seeking funding from the June monitoring for that.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. There are strong merits to pursuing a ban. I want to engage with stakeholders in the coming weeks and months to get a clear position on our plan to take forward legislation in this mandate. The Member raises an important issue, and there is a strong justification for what he has said, but I also want to pursue many other areas of animal welfare legislation. That is why I want to engage with stakeholders to prioritise the interventions the Assembly needs to make in order to take every action that it can to outlaw animal cruelty in Northern Ireland.”
“Prior to the dissolution of Parliament, DEFRA introduced legislation to ban shock collars in England. <BR /> <BR />It should be noted, however, that, although the use of shock collars or e-collars is not banned in Northern Ireland, a person may use an e-collar on an animal only if it does not cause unnecessary suffering. For example, if people set the intensity of the device at a level that is deemed to be excessive, they could be causing that animal unnecessary suffering and be liable for prosecution under the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011.”
“My Department's code of practice for the welfare of dogs recommends that only positive, reward-based training be used and that potentially painful or frightening training methods, such as e-collars, be avoided. In that context, I am aware of the merits of banning such devices and am keen to explore how that can be achieved in this mandate, subject to available resources. I intend to discuss that and other animal welfare interventions with stakeholders in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />I am aware that the Irish Government will introduce a regulation in the coming months to ban the use of manually operated shock-collar devices but not anti-bark collars or collars linked to boundary fences. Shock collars have been banned in Wales since 2010, and a recent report from the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission (SAWC) recommended a ban in Scotland.”
“Northern Ireland Water monitors water extracted from the River Faughan, water at various stages of treatment and final water supplied from the Carmoney water treatment works. Monitoring data is shared and interpreted by the NIEA and Northern Ireland Water.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The safety of drinking water is paramount, so she asks an important question. Safeguarding public health, ensuring safe drinking water and reducing the environmental impact of that crime are, as I said, paramount. My Department is committed, in partnership with Northern Ireland Water, to protecting the water quality of the River Faughan in order to safeguard drinking water in the north-west. <BR /> <BR />My officials have put in place a comprehensive environmental monitoring programme at the Mobuoy site. It includes site and riverbank inspections and detailed monitoring using international quality standards for on-site groundwater and surface water, together with daily laboratory testing of water quality at the Northern Ireland Water drinking water extraction point.”
“Stakeholders' views are hugely important to me, and I want to ensure that those views are taken into account in choosing the remediation options. I am therefore not able to confirm stable costings now. Thirdly, a range of approval processes must be carried out to ensure that any remediation proposals are technically sound and cost-effective. <BR /> <BR />A number of months ago, I visited the Mobuoy site. The issue there is enormously complex. I am focused on it, and it is important that we find a way forward. We will start the public consultation in the time ahead.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is a key issue, and the potential costs have concerned me. To date, my Department does not have a cost estimate that has been assessed and approved through the required public finance processes and an approved business case. There are several reasons for that, and it is important that I outline them to the Member and the House. <BR /> <BR />First, my Department continues to pursue the perpetrators of the environmental crime through ongoing criminal proceedings and will, in line with the "polluter pays principle", strenuously seek to ensure that the polluter does pay. Secondly, my Department will shortly issue a public consultation on a range of remediation options for the site.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I am aware of other sites in Northern Ireland. The issue of environmental crime, particularly waste crime, is something that I take seriously. I have engaged with colleagues on how we can better ensure that we practise the "polluter pays principle" and secure proper outcomes from that. That means working with the organised crime task force and HMRC, and it also means resourcing the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA). I will put a focus on it and engage with officials in the time ahead, because we need to eliminate waste crime in Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I understand the urgency to act on this matter, for many reasons, including in relation to the A6. I have briefly spoken to the Infrastructure Minister about it, and I continue to engage with him. There are other reasons for that as well: it is a site where an environmental crime is alleged to have occurred, investigations of which are ongoing and on which a justice outcome is being sought; and there is also an impact on the local community. In the time ahead, I will engage with Derry City and Strabane District Council, because it is a key issue for the people of the north-west.”
“The next step in the process is to consult the public on the draft strategy. It is vital that we get it right, and I will ensure that all interested parties have the opportunity to comment on the draft strategy. There is no agreed preferred option, and there will not be one until the consultation has been completed and the responses carefully considered.”
“Detailed water quality monitoring reports are published on the DAERA website, and I am advised that, to date, there has been no adverse impact on the safety of drinking water supplied from the River Faughan. <BR /> <BR />A draft optimum remediation strategy to deliver the long-term remediation of the Mobuoy site, based on the best balance of environmental, social and economic factors, has been developed. A detailed risk assessment drawing on extensive site investigations and over seven years of monitoring has provided a robust evidence basis for a detailed appraisal of many remediation options and, subsequently, the development of the draft remediation strategy. The draft strategy has been developed in line with best practice and using guidance issued by the Environment Agency that applies to Northern Ireland.”
“I wish to highlight from the outset that my Department remains fully committed to pursuing the perpetrators of this environmental crime through ongoing criminal proceedings, including ensuring that the polluter pays through confiscation under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. <BR /> <BR />Safeguarding public health, assuring safe drinking water and reducing the environmental impact of this crime are paramount. My Department will continue to deliver its comprehensive environmental monitoring programme at the site. That includes site inspections, regular monitoring of groundwater and surface water, daily laboratory testing of water quality at the NI Water drinking water abstraction point and working in partnership with NI Water.”
“Yes. <BR /> <BR />It is absolutely critical that we have that funding to support our agriculture industry here in Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Members for proposing the motion, and for what has been a useful debate. My officials and I will review the Hansard report afterwards for the points that have been made. Believe me, this is something that I have put my energy into. There are lots of issues in the Department, but, as officials know, we have met on this matter on a number of occasions. I have agreed to engage with stakeholders later this month. We are listening. I am very conscious of my legal obligations, as any Minister would be in this position. We are looking to find a way forward. The capital funding through the UK Government that has been earmarked to support —.”
“I understand the points that were made, but the advice that we have received is very clear: there is no legal basis for the use of the betterment approach, and if there are adverse effects as a result of the development, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency is legally obliged to advise of such, even if those adverse effects are a reduction compared with the impact of the existing building. I know that that was considered at the Committee.”
“However, as I have highlighted in other contexts, tackling ammonia emissions cannot be seen in isolation from the natural environment more generally, and we cannot tackle its problems in isolation either. Therefore, I look forward to similar support from Members when I bring forward my environment strategy, which, I hope, the Executive will adopt as Northern Ireland's first environmental improvement plan. <BR /> <BR />If I have another minute, I have one other point to make. The point about betterment has been raised by a number of Members, and officials addressed it at the Committee meeting last week, on Thursday, at CAFRE in Greenmount.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I know the frustrations about the turnaround and the response times from NIEA as a statutory consultee, and we are doing all that we can within the limited budget that we have to address that. <BR /> <BR />I will continue to move forward with policies that address ammonia emissions and help us to meet our commitments under the National Emission Ceilings Regulations and statutory obligations. <BR /> <BR />We all share the same aim: to protect and improve our natural environment and ensure the sustainable development of our agriculture sector. That needs to be achieved in as timely a manner as possible, and I recognise that it is likely to be a longer process than any of us would like.”
“Rather than constraining the industry, my Department has supported investment in ammonia mitigation measures and the development of farm facilities and will continue to do that through future farm support measures. Therefore, I cannot agree to the Members' call to reject the policy direction set out by the ammonia strategy and the operational protocol. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that tackling the challenge of ammonia emissions in Northern Ireland will present additional financial challenges and the degree of challenge will vary between farms. It is not in my interest or anyone else's to hinder investment and economic development of the agriculture industry in Northern Ireland. I reiterate that this cannot be done at the expense of our natural environment and our beautiful countryside.”
“During the public consultation on the draft ammonia strategy and a separate call for evidence on the future operational protocol, in 2023, my officials undertook a comprehensive programme of stakeholder engagement. That included public information events across Northern Ireland and further engagement with representative organisations and individuals. As a result, both the strategy and operational protocol have been developed further, and I intend to update representative organisations on the most recent developments on ammonia before the end of this month. That is a commitment that I have given them, and we are planning it in the diary. <BR /> <BR />Today, I have set out how the draft ammonia strategy and the revised operational protocol pave the way for environmental protection.”
“The new operational protocol delivers the legislative requirement to assess the impacts of air pollution on the natural environment in the provision of advice to planning authorities. The draft ammonia strategy sets out measures that show how investing in the right equipment can help to reduce the harmful release of ammonia into the air even where the total number of livestock on the farm would be increased. <BR /> <BR />I note that Members have called for consultation with the agri-food industry on the strategy and for the needs of primary producers to be fully considered. I am content to take that forward and intend to build on the consultation that has already taken place.”
“There will be announcements in the time ahead on what we are doing together, as Finance Minister and Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, on the budget and how it links through to a just transition fund for agriculture. I get the importance of the issues, and that is why Caoimhe and I are working together on this. The more money we can provide for capital support on these issues, the easier the journey ahead. We get the importance and are working hard to address that. <BR /> <BR />The specific details of the impact on the natural environment of new or replacement farm buildings must be scientifically verified and must comply with the relevant environmental protection legislation.”
“The investment required will vary depending on the details of the specific farm and the specific proposal subject to consideration under the new operational protocol. However, as I have asserted, the new programme of farm support and development provides financial support to help farm businesses improve their environmental performance. <BR /> <BR />On that — there was a question from Tom Elliott to Eóin Tennyson — I am working with the Finance Minister on the future agriculture budget for Northern Ireland, because commitments were given until the end of March next year and, obviously, there are concerns about the road map for after that.”