Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“The amendment will help to ensure that the scheme continues to play its part in incentivising greenhouse gas emissions reduction in Northern Ireland and across the rest of the United Kingdom. Accordingly, I commend the Order to the House.”
“as that is deemed to be ambiguous. <BR /> <BR />The definition will instead refer to the permanent cessation of activity, thus providing greater clarity for all. Those are the main elements of the Order. The Order does not extend the scope of the scheme to additional industrial sectors. As members of the AERA Committee will be aware, DAERA is considering further development and expansion of the scheme along with other UK Administrations as part of a series of ongoing UK-wide consultation exercises. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Order will make two technical and operational changes to the UK ETS that relate to the treatment and definition of stationary installations that permanently cease to undertake an activity that is regulated by the scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Order will also update the definition of "permanent cessation" to remove from the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme Order 2020 the phrase:”
“First, it will adapt the treatment and calculation of free allowances in the final year of operation for installations that permanently cease activity in order to eliminate the risk of an installation receiving an excess of free allowances in its final year. That involves a change to the scheme rules, whereby installations that permanently cease activity will have to submit an activity-level report in the year following cessation in order for regulators to recalculate free allocation based on actual final-year activity levels. That approach is in line with that taken by the EU ETS and will ensure that installations do not receive an excess of allowances that they could sell for profit, as that would absolutely not be in line with the scheme's policy intent. Essentially, the Order will reduce the misuse of final-year free allowances.”
“The response to other elements of that consultation is still under consideration by the UK Emissions Trading Scheme Authority (UKETSA). <BR /> <BR />The Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) Order 2025 was laid in draft format in the Northern Ireland Assembly on 3 December 2024 under the Climate Change Act 2008, which requires that Orders be laid and debated in each legislature in which they are to have effect. The Order was debated and approved by the Scottish Parliament on 14 January 2025, by the Welsh Senedd on 21 January 2025 and yesterday by both Houses of Parliament. <BR /> <BR />This amending Order is quite short and, if approved, will make the following technical changes to the UK ETS.”
“<BR /> <BR />The proposals that are contained in the Order before us today were subject to a UK-wide UK ETS free allocation review consultation that took place between December 2023 and March 2024. It focused on altering free allocation methodology for stationary sectors to better target those most at risk of carbon leakage. On 28 November 2024, alongside my counterparts in England, Wales and Scotland, I agreed the content and to the subsequent publication of an initial Government response to that consultation, which included commitments to make two technical and operational changes to the UK ETS that relate specifically to the treatment and definition of stationary installations that permanently cease to undertake an activity that is regulated by the scheme.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to bring this draft Order to the House. The background to and operation of the UK emissions trading scheme (ETS) has been set out in detail previously, so I do not propose to repeat it. I refer Members to my opening remarks on 26 November 2024, when I brought the then draft Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2024 to the House. <BR /> <BR />MLAs, particularly the members of the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, have engaged positively with my Department on the emissions trading scheme, and I know that there is a good understanding throughout the Chamber of the importance of the UK-wide decarbonisation scheme to meeting our climate targets. I am, however, happy to address any clarification questions that Members may have.”
“I am happy to work with the councils on these issues, but we also need to get their voices and their perspectives on the matter. The fact that I am going to Wales to see its efforts on recycling also shows my broader commitment to recycling.”
“Thank you for giving way. I want to provide you the reassurance that there is no rolling back on my previous commitments. I am happy to engage with the councils. I am conscious that we also have to strike a balance. You are asking me to issue statutory guidance to councils, and the consultation is about non-statutory guidance. Sometimes we are accused of giving too many instructions to councils, and, on the other side, it is that we should work in partnership with people. I want to work with people on this. I am happy to engage with them on it. I hope that that gives you some reassurance. My perspective in life is to work with people. That is what I want to do with the councils on this issue. This has been a really good debate. Michelle has raised these issues consistently.”
“I am aware of Madam Principal Deputy Speaker's guidance on the wider issue. We are discussing the motion, and I am outlining to the Member the reason why delivering legislation in this place can sometimes be slower than anticipated. That is not from a desire on my part not to progress things. I am committed to delivering for the people of Northern Ireland on this and other issues. People in Northern Ireland look to us in this place to work together and deliver for them, and I am committed to doing that, alongside others. I hope that we can agree on the motion and can continue to work not just in this place but with local government to deliver on issues that matter to the people of Northern Ireland.”
“The institutions have been down for an awfully long time, and this place is not like a computer: you cannot switch it off and switch it on again and expect it to work exactly as before. We need stable institutions so that we can have a very defined legislative programme as we move from one mandate to another. The institutions were restored just about a year ago, and I am putting my heart and soul into working them and delivering for people. However, the impact of collapse is significant, and that is why we need to reform these institutions, so that we can deliver for everyone in Northern Ireland.”
“I reassure Members that future policy decisions on waste and improving our recycling will be based on the best available evidence to ensure that we are well placed to meet our legislative targets. My vision for Northern Ireland is a strong, green economy that values its resources and actively closes the loop by putting as many resources as possible back into the system. I wholly agree with the sentiment of the motion to increase recycling and reduce what we send to landfill. I thank the Members who tabled the motion, and I thank Members for the interesting, challenging and respectful debate that it stimulated. <BR /> <BR />I will say one final thing about the remarks of Matthew O'Toole. He referenced the fact that these institutions were set up as a result of an international agreement in 1998.”
“<BR /> <BR />As well as the need to understand the environmental benefits or, indeed, disbenefits in a time of constrained budgets, it is vital to ensure that any scheme would not place an undue burden on taxpayers. In the interim, I will put the focus on other waste streams and on growing the collection of those. I reiterate my commitment to exploring the issue, but I cannot be the only person left holding the baby, and we have to work with district councils. There are many opportunities for councils to collect different waste streams, many of which command a high value for recycling and have established end markets. <BR /> <BR />The matter of our waste and resources and dealing with waste sustainably is an extremely important issue with which Members are rightly concerned, and I welcome the motion and the amendment.”
“I am keen to explore any option that will help to enhance our environment and improve the lives of our citizens. The first steps in that process will be to determine the feasibility of a scheme for the collection of nappies and other absorbent hygiene products in Northern Ireland. As part of that process, I will encourage councils to work with my officials, engaging through existing channels, to share views and experiences and to bring forward proposals that, they believe, would help to deliver our shared ambitions. I will also welcome input from those in private industry who may view this as an opportunity to develop their business and, in turn, enhance our circular economy.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am aware that several councils have run nappy reuse schemes across Northern Ireland, offering up to £30 reimbursement to residents who spend £50 or more on reusable cloth nappies. Some councils work with the Library Group to offer a two-week trial pack to residents that includes cloth nappies and reusable wipes. My Department's waste prevention programme includes actions on reuse and repair, and I am aware of the potential cost benefits to families of using reusables as opposed to disposables. There are no specific actions in that programme on nappies and absorbent hygiene products, but that is due to be reviewed in the coming months, and the inclusion of reusable nappies will be considered as part of that. <BR /> <BR />The final part of the motion calls on me:”
“I refer Members to the most recent evidence on disposable and reusable nappies, which was published by DEFRA in 2023 and can be found in its report entitled, 'Life Cycle Assessment of Disposable and Reusable Nappies in the UK'. That assessment showed that, while disposable nappies had a slightly higher global warming potential, reusable nappies had a higher environmental impact when compared across the life of the product, largely due to the composition of the material, which is normally cotton and is extremely water-intensive to produce, and laundering the items after each use. Following that assessment and with no clear consensus on whether reusable or disposable nappies were better for the environment, DEFRA decided not to progress further policy action on nappies at this time.”
“I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of that statement. The introduction of new materials for recycling will be key to achieving our targets and improving our resource management. However, it is my view that there are other, perhaps more cost-effective and environmentally beneficial schemes that could be implemented to help us to achieve those targets. For example, there have been significant successes in some local authority areas, with collection schemes for small waste electrical and electronic equipment. The component parts of those items can be easily recycled and retain a high value with a plethora of existing end markets. I do not close my mind, however, to the issues that have been raised today. <BR /> <BR />The motion further calls on me to:”
“I agree that that is an ongoing concern, and it is something that we have given due consideration to, as reflected by the inclusion of questions relating to absorbent hygiene products in the recent recycling consultation. I reassure Members that the outcome of that consultation will include the publication of guidance to councils on provisions for families and householders who are using nappies or absorbent hygiene products, as is stated in the amendment to the motion. <BR /> <BR />The motion further calls on the Assembly to recognise that:”
“However, the recycling process for disposable nappies and other absorbent hygiene products is not, unfortunately, as straightforward as it is for other waste streams that we collect at the kerbside, such as paper, card or glass. <BR /> <BR />Technologies exist to break down the component parts of used nappies and absorbent hygiene products, but the relatively high cost of reprocessing those materials and the limited end markets for the recycled content mean that there is only one facility in the UK that is able to recycle those products. That facility is in Wales, and I hope to visit it in the time ahead to see the work that they are doing in recycling and some other areas. <BR /> <BR />The motion asks that the Assembly:”
“To achieve that, I am making sure that we look at the way that we recycle at work, at home, at school and in any other setting that looks the same. Embedding that consistency at the outset of the scheme design reduces confusion and increases participation. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the motion on recycling for nappies and other absorbent hygiene products, I am pleased that my fellow Members recognise the importance of the proposals in the recent consultation and share my ambition to do more to protect our valuable resources and our environment. It is great to see the support today for the need to increase separation of various waste streams and to increase the quality and quantity of our recycling, and I really appreciate that.”
“That means that we need everyone to recycle much more and send less to landfill. <BR /> <BR />To help deliver on those requirements, my Department has recently consulted on 26 proposals for household and non-household waste management, all designed to help Northern Ireland to achieve its targets to improve our resources and how they are managed and to transition Northern Ireland to a circular economy. The key proposals include greater separation of material at the kerbside, restrictions on the amount of residual waste that can be collected from the kerbside and the introduction of recycling for obligated businesses; that is, businesses and organisations that produce waste that is similar in composition to that coming from households. I firmly believe that doing the right thing should not be difficult.”
“We have made significant progress in managing our waste over the past 20 years, reducing the household waste landfill rate from 72% in 2006-07 to a low of 18% in 2022-23. Meanwhile, the household recycling rate has increased from around 10% in 2002 to a high of 51·9% in 2019-2020. Now, however, we must go further. Members will already be aware of the challenging targets in this area. Indeed, our landmark Climate Change Act set the direction and ambition for environmental protection here, committing us to achieving net zero by 2050 and, specific to our discussion today, achieving 70% of waste recycled by 2030. Other targets in legislation require achieving a 65% recycling rate for municipal waste and a reduction of the amount of waste going to landfill to less than 10%, both by 2035.”
“Our current linear economy, in which we take, make, use and waste, is no longer sustainable, and change is necessary to embed a culture of value towards our resources and accelerate our transition to a circular economy.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the Members who tabled the motion for bringing it to the House and for their interest in the important issue of recycling. <BR /> <BR />As we navigate the ever-increasing impact of climate change, it is now imperative that we rethink how we deal with our resources.”
“As I said at the Bill's Second Stage, I and my officials look forward to working closely with the Committee as it undertakes its important role, but I ask that the Committee seeks, to the fullest extent possible, to expedite the scrutiny of the Bill, which I know that it will.”
“Furthermore, the earlier that the Bill is enacted, the more scope that there will be to amend the scheme rules by subordinate legislation, including, possibly, to begin to address some of the issues that have been raised by stakeholders, should the scheme be rolled forward to next year. <BR /> <BR />It is my understanding that discussion surrounding the request for an extension at the Committee meeting of 12 December recognised that pressure and that an ambition was stated to have the Committee Stage completed before Easter recess. I do not wish to undermine or suggest limiting the Committee's important scrutiny of the Bill, which I fully acknowledge and accept. I am aware that other pressing issues are coming before the Committee in its forward work programme.”
“I will speak briefly, and I do not oppose the motion. I fully understand the pressures on the Committee and its many competing priorities, but I would like to impress upon its members the need to have the Committee's consideration completed at the earliest opportunity. It is important that I put that on the record. An extension to 23 May will put at risk the Bill's completing all its stages before summer recess. As I have articulated previously, if the Bill has not received Royal Assent before the summer, it will have an impact on my ability to decide on DAERA's funding priorities for the next three years.”
“Once that consultation is completed, I will make a final decision on the issue, but I believe that all polluters in Northern Ireland should be treated the same. There should be no special dispensation for anyone, and I will not be found wanting in relation to that, because it is really important that we improve water quality in Northern Ireland.”
“It is time to end that arrangement, which is why I have asked my officials to engage with DFI and NI Water as part of an eight-week consultation with a view to terminating that.”
“That is a serious issue for me and for the people of Northern Ireland. Water quality has come so much on to the public agenda, and it is on my agenda, because two consecutive years of blue-green algae in Lough Neagh is of massive concern not just for Northern Ireland but more broadly. There is also sewage pollution around Belfast lough and issues with water quality in other areas of Northern Ireland. I am taking action on that. <BR /> <BR />I will work with the Justice Minister on a review of fines and penalties for environmental crime. It is important that we undertake that review in relation not just to water quality but, for example, to waste crime. I believe that SORPI is not fit for purpose on waste water.”
“In my initial response to the Member, I said, "Public Accounts Committee" instead of "Planning Appeals Commission"; there are two PACs in Northern Ireland. I meant to refer to the Planning Appeals Commission and the Water Appeals Commission. <BR /> <BR />It is important to assure the Member and the general public that I have every confidence in the work of my officials They are professional individuals who will perform their tasks diligently, and they will comply with any requirements of the inquiry.”
“A public inquiry started today. Members will understand that I have to be careful in what I say about that. My Department will work with the inquiry and comply with any statutory requirements associated with the needs of the Public Accounts Committee and the Water Appeals Commission.”
“I am trying to recall, and I cannot, so I will check and come back to the Member. If it is appropriate, we can then have a short meeting to move the matter along, because I am conscious that it has been going on for a while.”
“I am aware of the issue from correspondence. There has been significant correspondence from not just the Member but others. DFI also has a role to play. I will check on the latest situation and write to the Member. I understand the importance of the matter, particularly given the traffic congestion and environmental damage that have been caused by the landslide.”
“The issue of funding is key, and I will take any funding going. If it is being offered by other Ministers so that we can do that, I will say, "Thank you". The other key issue is having the resource to recruit so that we get staff into post. I am confident that the Northern Ireland Environment Agency is working hard at that. The chief executive of the Environment Agency has done a lot of good work in turning that situation around. I know that more needs to be done, and that is key for me. I get your point, but we need to raise further awareness of the need to ensure that further information is provided when sending in applications so that we can then get them processed quickly.”
“We can then issue guidance that, hopefully, will mean that, when people put in applications, there is no need for re-consultation.”
“I have a lot of respect for the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, and I have been doing a lot of work to improve processing times for applications. There is a further bid for additional staff so that that can be done. One of the issues is to do with applications that are made but do not meet the relevant criteria or cannot be properly assessed because of a requirement for additional information. We need to raise awareness about what is required. Some of my engagement with stakeholders on ammonia, for example, is on whether additional information can be provided in advance of an application being made. That will, hopefully, help to speed up processing times. There will be further engagement on ammonia this month with stakeholders so that we can, hopefully, get agreement on the way forward.”
“I have been working alongside the Justice Minister, for whom I have utmost respect as a person with the integrity and commitment to address the issues that affect the citizens of Northern Ireland. The potential option of having the ability to look at AccessNI checks is something that I want to explore and consider as a way to address the concerns about offenders having access.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There are two aspects to that. There was a discussion about an all-Ireland animal cruelty register. I met Minister Charlie McConalogue in Dublin a while ago to discuss that, and, at that meeting, he outlined that there are no current plans to bring in a register in the South. Obviously, that causes issues for the North. I asked officials to review the possibilities around the proposal, and we will look at the future pathways for animal welfare and at whether having the ability to look at AccessNI checks is one of the ways that we could resolve the issue while getting round data protection and GDPR, which are key issues in the matter.”
“I fully recognise that and that you are one of the enlightened few on the matter, so I give you that credit.”
“We need to step back a wee bit on the wider issue of the Mercosur trade deal. I recognise the concerns that farmers not just in Northern Ireland but in the Republic of Ireland have expressed, and I listen to those concerns. However, let us look at the trade deals that the UK did with the rest of the world. They were not good trade deals for farmers in the UK. When people try to sell me any benefits of Brexit, I struggle to find any.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the agreement does not apply to the UK, it has a potential impact on UK agriculture markets, including those in Northern Ireland, due to the increased imports from Mercosur into the EU, particularly of beef and poultry. I appreciate the concerns that the agriculture sector has expressed about the agreement, but imports under reduced tariffs will be limited by a quota for some products, including beef, where the concessionary tariff of 7·5% is limited to 99,000 tons, and poultry, where tariff-free access is limited to 180,000 tons.”
“I thank the Member for raising the question. I regularly read the 'Irish Farmers Journal'. I read it every week, cover to cover. This has been raised as a concern by the Irish Farmers' Association. Whilst a free trade agreement between the EU and Mercosur was announced on 6 December 2024, it is likely to be some time before the agreement is fully ratified and comes into effect, if, indeed, it is ever fully ratified. Talks about an EU-Mercosur free trade agreement first commenced in 1999, with an agreement in principle being reached 10 years later in June 2019. It is expected that progress on the full implementation of the agreement will remain slow.”
“Brexit has hampered an awful lot, particularly the growth of the UK economy, and we are all paying the consequences of that. I work through the issues. There is trade between GB and NI, and there are challenges associated with that, but my officials work through such issues. If there are particular concerns about our tree planting targets being impeded as a result of the Windsor framework, I will be happy to work through the UK Government to address those.”
“There is a lot happening, but we are reviewing what more we can do, because it is absolutely crucial that we do that and a lot more planting.”
“There are two sides to that. The first is the work that Forest Service is taking forward. The small woodland grant scheme is open for applications, as far as I am aware, so there are current schemes. In the Lough Neagh report and action plan, we are looking at specific interventions, particularly the replanting of riparian buffers. That already occurs through, for example, the sustainable catchment area programme. I was privileged enough to visit the programme in the Upper Bann catchment area and saw the good work that is going on there. That planting is taking place in conjunction with the Rivers Trust. <BR /> <BR />As part of the Lough Neagh report and action plan, we are looking at what more we can do. We are looking to review our progress on that and explore, as part of the budget for next year, what more we can do.”
“I am happy to write to the Member once we have done the review of records.”
“Thank you, Patsy. My Department takes all litigation claims seriously and complies with the 'Managing Public Money' guidance from the Department of Finance. The amount spent by DAERA on all special payments, which includes litigation cases, is published annually in the Department's report and accounts. Central departmental records, however, do not differentiate between various types of compensation cases. That has necessitated a comprehensive review of our records. My Department is revising its procedures to assist with making that information more readily available.”
“We are aware of the issues with water quality and the sources around that: agriculture, waste water and septic tanks. I tasked officials to review what is known as "SORPI", the statement of regulatory principles and intent. Essentially, it is a separate regulatory regime for NI Water whereby the historic underinvestment is taken into account when considering any decisions around enforcement. It is not fit for purpose; it is not fair to have a separate regime for NI Water. I am of a mind to withdraw from SORPI. I have already sent communication to DFI and NI Water that I am of that opinion. I will seek their views and take a final decision within eight weeks' time.”
“<BR /> <BR />By way of context, there was a bid in the draft Budget of £11·5 million for the environmental improvement plan, including Lough Neagh. I was not awarded any funding to go towards that. I am engaging with officials about what budget allocations we can make internally, but it is important that I continue to engage with the Finance Minister around that key issue.”