Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“Many warned about the particular impact of Brexit on Northern Ireland. The Member for Foyle outlined how two former Prime Ministers came to Derry and voiced their concerns on Brexit and the impact that it would have. They were ignored. It was always going to be hard to have Brexit in Northern Ireland because of the unique set-up of a land border with the European Union and also, let us note, the hard Brexit pursued by the UK Government. <BR /> <BR />We are living with the consequences of that, but dialogue, engagement and a focus on solutions, rather than on the problems, is key for the way forward.”
“I have yet to hear it, because there is not one.”
“We left the European Union, however, so we do not have influence within the European Parliament. <BR /> <BR />There is an amendment, and I will speak to that. The Alliance Party cannot support the amendment, because we believe that it raises the unfairly ambitious and undeliverable ambition that there is a viable alternative to the protocol.”
“I think that you will find that there is common ground in the Assembly. People who are elected to this place wish to be able to engage and to ensure that the policy and legislation that influences Northern Ireland is fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />It is important that the UK Government genuinely and sincerely engage in dialogue over the next number of weeks to find a solution for Northern Ireland. The fact that we left the European Union does not mean that good relationships cannot continue. If anything, it is more important than ever that we foster those relationships and find different forums and structures through which to engage. We no longer have representation at the European Parliament. We had that through three MEPs. One former MEP is in the House today. Another is my party leader, who I wish was able to continue in that role.”
“Our partnership with the European Union started in 1973. It continued until —.”
“<BR /> <BR />The statement from the European Union last week was welcome, particularly that part in relation to dialogue and engagement. I stand here as a proud European who also considers themselves to be British and Irish. I know that trust and good relations are vital, now and in the future. I find it hard to see anybody disagreeing with me about the fact that Brexit has caused divisions throughout our society and within these islands. Today's motion and the generality of politics show the importance of dialogue. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, there is a need for particular and more structured consultations, focused on Northern Ireland, as the EU develops policies and legislation, particularly in relation to Brexit. The Northern Ireland institutions should get early sight of proposed legislation in its formative stages.”
“<BR /> <BR />The impact of Brexit is being seen across the United Kingdom as the end of the transition period occurs and COVID restrictions ease. It is important to bear in mind the context of trading relationships under the protocol. Many businesses in Great Britain, particularly those concerned with seafood in Scotland, would give their eye teeth to have the relationships that we do for accessing the UK internal market and also the single market. That fact is lost in an awful lot of the discussions and dialogues about the protocol and in the issues that people cite, but we have a unique position and trading relationship. Of course, there are issues. There were always going to be issues with Brexit. Associating them with the protocol rather than with Brexit is, in my view, disingenuous.”
“I speak today conscious of the tone of the debate against earlier remarks today and the need to support dialogue. I am also conscious of the context of Brexit and where we find ourselves today. In the run-up to the referendum in June 2016, there were lots of debates and comments about worries and concerns around the implications of Brexit. Subsequent to that, there was the general election in 2017, with the opportunity to shape a Brexit that would not be so significant to Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, however, a hard Brexit was pursued, and we are in the situation that we are in today. There has been lots of uncertainty and many worrying months since what was described as "Brexit day" on 31 January 2020, which seems like quite a long time ago.”
“Will the Minister outline what impact the potential continued boycott of North/South bodies by the DUP will have on this very welcome investment in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Minister for his response. An area of real concern for me is the European social fund support, which has helped a significant number of organisations across Northern Ireland. What work is being done to mitigate the impact of the loss of that funding? Will he meet the NOW Group, which operates in my constituency and other areas to provide valuable support funded through the ESF?”
“We need to be careful about creating more red lines rather than focusing on solutions. <BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party has been consistent in highlighting its fears of the implications and repercussions of Brexit, both running up to the referendum and thereafter. Unlike others, we have been solution-focused, and we recognise — we wish that others would — that there is no other credible alternative to the protocol. The time ahead must be used to engage, to resolve and to give certainty to businesses.”
“I acknowledge that some aspects need to be resolved, such as, for example, pet travel, but we need to be solution-focused. <BR /> <BR />I have not been contacted by one business about the latest red line that has been brought up: the European Court of Justice. As reported in 'The Irish Times', the corporate lawyer Richard Gray, a partner at the law practice Carson McDowell, advised that:”
“At the outset, like others, I offer my condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Sir David Amess, who was tragically murdered on Friday. I also offer my outright condemnation of that act. <BR /> <BR />I will be brief, but, in relation to this matter, the Alliance Party welcomes what has been proposed and hopes that the UK Government will engage constructively with the European Union over the weeks ahead. We need a focus on dialogue and the engendering of trust, which is the solution to this issue and so many other things in life. I am disappointed to see that, as my colleague Stewart Dickson outlined, hours before and after the EU proposals were circulated, some people were raising yet more red lines and looking for yet more problems.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, earlier today, there was a question for urgent oral answer to the First Minister and deputy First Minister. The deputy First Minister was not in the Chamber. I ask for a ruling on whether that was in order and whether the responses from the First Minister reflected the joint office, given that most of them seemed to be "DUP question time".”
“What message does that send to the people of Northern Ireland in the context of the need for everyone in this House and for Ministers to uphold the rule of law?”
“I ask this question to you, First Minister, conscious that you hold a joint office with the deputy First Minister. <BR /> <BR />In yesterday's judgement, Justice Scoffield stated:”
“One of the business sectors that has often been in contact with me is travel agents. They have been badly affected by the pandemic. What does the Minister's Department propose to do to assist them in the months ahead?”
“The lack of on-street or at-work charge points and the need for interest-free loans to encourage people to go electric must also be considered. I call on the Infrastructure Minister to listen to the hundreds of individuals who have signed the petition and take the crucial next steps to move Northern Ireland's electric vehicle charging network forward.”
“One side of the EV charger had been in use for over an hour and a half, and the free side was, again, not working. This takes our driver back to the leisure centre, where the other car was still charging and the free EV charge point was out of use. Staff at the centre directed him to another charger, but, with the sign on the gates of the car park saying that it could be locked any time after 5.30 pm, he decided that it was not worth the risk of getting locked in overnight. Once again, he went back to the leisure centre and waited for the charger there to become free. Finally, he made it home, four hours later than intended. <BR /> <BR />The improvement of chargers, having more chargers across Northern Ireland and standardised payment options need to be considered urgently.”
“As there are at least six different charging points in the town, that would not be an issue — or so he thought. <BR /> <BR />Before returning home, the driver went to the local leisure centre to charge up. He found one side of the charger already in use and the other taken up by a non-electric car that was parked in the space. The driver of that car moved to another space, but, in getting ready to charge, it became apparent that the charger on that side was broken. The driver then drove to the park-and-ride, located on the other side of the town. The charger there also appeared not to be working. A quick call to the Electricity Supply Board (ESB) confirmed that neither side was working, so he moved to another car park with a double charger.”
“I present this petition, with over 1,000 signatures, calling on the Minister for Infrastructure to bring forward a comprehensive, detailed strategy to rapidly expand the public electric vehicle charging network in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />In 2010, Northern Ireland's electric vehicle charging network was world leading, but, as more people turn to sustainable modes of transport, Northern Ireland has let its electric vehicle charging network fall to being the worst network of any region in the UK and Ireland. <BR /> <BR />A useful example of the atrocious state of our electric vehicle charging network and of why so many people have signed the petition can perhaps be found in the case of a driver who travelled to Omagh from Belfast, a three-hour round trip that would require him to charge his electric vehicle before returning home.”
“Councils need to be given revenue support as well in order to carry out engagement on the ground, build support for schemes and fund One Path initiatives to ensure that conflict among greenway users is managed. In North Down, there is a real need to secure hearts and minds through sustained engagement. I do not think, frankly, that we have got that right for the North Down coastal path. There is a need to have engagement with people on that, otherwise, you are fighting an uphill battle. Greenways are good, but we need to bring people with us and engage them, and the Minister needs the funding to be able to deliver what we are asking for in the debate and in the previous motion. I welcome that, and, hopefully, in due course, Philip and I can get out running again.”
“<BR /> <BR />The walking and cycling champion in the Minister's Department is to be welcomed, but, like others in the House, I support that role being independent. To me, it should be a sustainable travel commissioner, encompassing public transport and active travel, because we need to have an independent person who will support the Minister but also carry out the required scrutiny, particularly on greenway schemes. <BR /> <BR />Greenway schemes are to be welcomed, and the benefits of the greenways in North Antrim were mentioned in the debate. However, councils in particular are charged with the delivery of greenway schemes, and, in relation to the debate, that means Mid and East Antrim Borough Council and Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council.”
“There has not been a discussion about whether we should take money from other Departments to invest in health and social care. That is a discussion that we need to have. While the reasons for taking money from investment in active travel and putting it into health and social care may be clear, we should also have a preventative approach to the health of our people in Northern Ireland. We need to be conscious of that. We need to be very clear about the impact that taking money from, for example, sport or the Department for Communities and sending it to the Department of Health may have. We will also then have a health and social care system that is even more reactive than preventative. We need to be very clear about the policy decisions we will be making in the time ahead.”
“Let us be clear: whatever investment we can make in our health and social care system is to be welcomed. We need that investment so that we have good-quality public services for our people but also to ensure that staff are well paid.”
“If you do not do the running and cycling, it does not work out very well. The other aspect is mentally. If you are stuck in this place until what is going to be after 8.00 pm and do not go out and do physical exercise, it will drive you round the bend. The mental health benefits of physical exercise are very clear, and that is one of the reasons why I did the relay in the Belfast city marathon on Sunday. Getting up at 6.00 am, you may wonder why you are doing that, but, when you are at the start line and participating in an event, it is very clear why you are doing it: it is because you are engaging in physical exercise with other people and are enjoying that. That is a clear reason. <BR /> <BR />One issue that I and others have raised is the need for investment. There has been an active discussion in the media about investment in health.”
“<BR /> <BR />I look with a degree of envy at the national development plan announced by the Irish Government yesterday in terms of their commitment to weight investment in transport 2:1 in favour of public transport, cycling and walking over investment in roads. We need to have a step change in how we invest our moneys if we are to respond to the climate emergency that we face. <BR /> <BR />As outlined by a number of Members, cycling, active travel and exercise have great benefits, whether for physical or mental health. I know that personally as someone who goes out running, sometimes with Philip and with others. I now cycle quite a lot more as a result of a running injury. I do that largely for two reasons: one is that you can eat the buns in the canteen. If you do that, you can go out running.”
“I thank Philip McGuigan for bringing this Adjournment debate. As a Member for North Down, I will speak more in generalities than about the specifics of North Antrim, but I do value this subject being raised. <BR /> <BR />As Mr McGuigan outlined, the Department for Infrastructure's available budget for cycling initiatives is extremely low. My notes state that it is 2·3%. Northern Ireland has the lowest spend on active travel in the UK at approximately £7 per head, compared, for example, with Wales at £23·80. There is a real need to invest in our infrastructure to be able to deliver the benefits required.”
“I thank Mr Buckley for giving way. I will be brief. In winding, the Member has outlined his frustration that Members came to the House and welcomed the motion, then criticised it and him. Does he agree that, rather than bringing motions to the House — we will see, in the Order Papers for the weeks ahead, numerous motions to be debated — we need to bring legislation to actually enact change? One of the biggest signs of progress would be to bring legislation to the House on the mutualisation of Northern Ireland Water.”
“The simple answer is: the utility regulator in Wales determines that the investment that is required is met, whereas, here, the required investment is not met. It is a no-brainer.”
“Northern Ireland is the only region where the water utility is not funded to the level required by the independent regulator. <BR /> <BR />If we are to make this motion have any meaning, and if we are to address the serious issues in relation to the lack of investment and the housing shortage in Northern Ireland, we have to step up and take difficult decisions. No doubt, going into the elections next May, a lot of parties will offer the electorate opportunities in manifestos promising change. However, if we are not prepared to take difficult decisions and face the public on them, these issues will continue, and we will have a serious economic and housing crisis in Northern Ireland. Unless we fix this, our economy, housing and environment will be put at risk. We need to address it.”
“That is a clear, positive solution that the Alliance Party brings. Welsh Water provides a track record of success in that regard. <BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party's position on investment in water and waste water will come as no surprise to anyone. Our 2017 election manifesto clearly states:”
“Particularly in the context that Northern Ireland Water is the biggest electricity consumer in Northern Ireland, we need to invest to save, not only financially, but to save our planet. <BR /> <BR />So far, we have heard, and we will hear yet more during the debate, about the problems and issues. What about the solutions? That is where the House fails. If we are not prepared to face up to difficult decisions, we will have the same debates again and again, with some Members searching outside for magic money trees that they can shake, but no money will fall. <BR /> <BR />The investment in Northern Ireland Water, whilst it is to be welcomed, is, we should remember, at the expense of opportunities to invest in other areas. As Mr Beggs outlined, we need to urgently consider the mutualisation of Northern Ireland Water.”
“The lack of investment means that Northern Ireland Water cannot create the employment opportunities that are needed. Also, the risk of pollution increases. Since 2014, Northern Ireland Water has been fined 73 times for instances of significant water pollution, resulting in fines of approximately £250,000. <BR /> <BR />As a result of the lack of investment, the use of septic tanks increases because people cannot connect to the public sewerage infrastructure. There are risks to the environment and to public health, particularly from the chemicals used in these tanks and their impact on water and soil quality. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland Water's investment in, for example, hydrogen production, is to be welcomed. Green technologies are the way forward, but they need investment to continue.”
“PC21, which we are currently within, states that £2 billion of investment is required. There are currently more than 100 areas — over 50% across Northern Ireland, including 25 of our main cities and towns — where sewerage and waste water infrastructure has little or no capacity left. As an MLA for North Down, I know about that and the impact that it is having on applications for housing in my area. <BR /> <BR />It is expected that, by 2027, another 30 towns will reach capacity. We are making it almost impossible to build new housing or new business premises. This is a serious and critical crisis and will add another level of crisis to our housing shortage, about which my colleague Kellie Armstrong will speak later.”
“The Alliance Party supports and welcomes the motion. Like others, it finds it strange that it has come from a party that has been in government, and leading in government, over the past number of years. <BR /> <BR />The impact of the lack of, and need for, investment in water and waste water infrastructure has a massive impact not just on our economy but on housebuilding and the environment. No one here today should be surprised at the situation in which we find ourselves. Northern Ireland Water has been issuing warnings about the situation for years. <BR /> <BR />PC15, which covered the six years from 2015 to 2021 was underfunded: £1·7 billion was required but only £990 million was invested. Upgrades to 81 large waste water treatment works were deferred within the time frame of PC15.”
“The legislation that was passed recently — as the Minister outlined, it is in the process of being enacted — will have a positive impact on enabling the Minister and the Department to tackle domestic violence. Does the Minister agree that the ability to pass legislation that safeguards people from domestic violence and other societal issues is yet another reason why we need to keep the institutions and support devolution?”
“Alliance will continue to be constructive here and at Westminster to address those issues and to reduce the friction that Brexit has caused.”
“<BR /> <BR />The cliff edges need to go. We need a long-term solution to issues with the protocol. Repeating standstill agreements cannot go on for ever. We need to have long-term rules for businesses and consumers established. The UK and the EU need to work together as partners to build trust and a way forward that benefits us all. We need agreements, whether they be of a New Zealand or Swiss style, rather than political posturing to address issues with the protocol. Realistically, however, we also need to remember that what works for New Zealand, which is a country that is many thousands of miles away, may not work for us. We share a frontier with the single market. We need real, practical solutions that work with it.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. He will be aware that the EU has proposed a solution to that, and that is what we need to focus on. <BR /> <BR />We must be constructive and work towards agreed solutions to make the protocol as light-touch as possible. An SPS agreement is a clear way forward. Alliance's MP at Westminster, Dr Stephen Farry, has been pressing since practically the start of the year for such agreements to be progressed to ease frictions. I welcome the news that others are starting to come around to the concept of an SPS or veterinary agreement between the UK and the EU. We need to be clear with the UK Government and speak with one voice on the matter, so today's motion is constructive. Representatives at Westminster also need to make the case, as Stephen has been doing for months, however.”
“Alliance did not support the protocol. It was clear that Remain was a much better solution or, failing that, the backstop, but the DUP famously sank that idea.”
“<BR /> <BR />We must also be conscious of the reasons for SPS checks and rules and of why we cannot simply cast them aside as irrelevant. The safety of our food and the security of our agriculture sector depend on that. It is not difficult to see why the EU is not keen to allow free and uncontrolled access into the single market. We need agreed rules to protect and ensure the quality of food products and to ensure animal and plant health. The story of citrus black spot fungus may not seem interesting to people here today, but it was reported on by RTÉ's Tony Connelly. The fact that, from 1 January 2022, there will be the import of citrus products into the UK from countries where this fungus exists is a case in point.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. As one of the other Members said, he is a bit like a broken record in relation to that. I will come on to the implementation of the protocol. <BR /> <BR />Some food industries in the UK have been upended overnight due to delays and friction in exporting fresh food to the EU. In particular, the fish and shellfish sectors across Great Britain faced a massive drop in exports this year. On the movement of animal and food products, a UK-EU sanitary and phytosanitary agreement is a clear way forward. That would not only smooth the flow of goods across the Irish Sea but benefit consumers and businesses in other parts of the UK, and especially those fresh food producers that previously had a major market in the EU.”
“I support the motion. We were told that the Prime Minister would "Get Brexit Done", but the reality is that it has just started. We are seeing the impact of leaving the world's largest trading bloc. Brexit did not have to be like this and, indeed, the proponents of Brexit were content to promote a single market approach. Instead, we have the hardest of Brexits and a rushed Trade and Cooperation Agreement, with a massive increase in red tape and friction for businesses across the UK. A recent YouGov poll found that only 18% of the public think that Brexit is going well. Indeed, it is difficult to define many silver linings. There are shortages of certain products on supermarket shelves, and the loss of freedom of movement is, as we have seen, causing real issues with skills shortages in numerous sectors across the UK.”
“To retrospectively change the legislation on political appointees and disbar people from that new beginning of policing would send a very negative message to an awful lot of communities.”
“You cited the relationship between independent members of PCSPs and the Policing Board and political appointees. Will the Member agree that a fundamental part of the new beginning to policing was to secure all-party agreement and support for the new policing structures and that a key part of that was to ensure that all parties would buy into it?”
“Does the debate not highlight again, after the debate on Mr Allister's previous Bill, the need for proper consultation in relation to this? Moreover, with the previous Bill, the version that was brought to the House was entirely different at Second Stage from that at Final Stage because of numerous amendments that had to be tabled. Even at Final Stage, that Bill had significant issues.”
“I ask myself whether the general, core principles in the Bill presented to us today at Second Stage are likely to be drastically different at Final Stage. The answer that I reach is perhaps no. Hence, I and the Alliance Party are unlikely to be able to support the Bill at this stage for the reasons that I have clearly, cogently and, I believe, respectfully outlined.”
“That does not mean that, because others have not lived up to those principles, we abandon them; on the contrary, it makes it clear that, now more than ever, we must honour the commitments and principles that underpin the agreement.”
“No disbarment is mentioned or recommended. <BR /> <BR />The Bill sponsor has never supported the Good Friday Agreement, but, in 1998, the people of Northern Ireland voted by a large majority in favour of it and to move forward to a new Northern Ireland built on equality and mutual respect. Some politicians and parties, 23 years later, still have to live up to the vision and principles set out in the agreement, especially in relation to the declaration of support, which stated:”