Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“MV, as people know, is a notifiable disease under our domestic legislation. It is not a notifiable disease under European or WTO animal health rules. The disease is widespread among sheep in other countries and jurisdictions, including in GB. Neither GB nor the Republic of Ireland is considered to be MV-free. Northern Ireland has, however, been considered by the Department to be MV-free. For my Department to maintain its current MV-free status, officials test any sheep and goats moved into Northern Ireland for the presence of the disease. In addition, post-import MV testing from the Republic of Ireland commenced in July 2022. Furthermore, DAERA tests a limited proportion of the national flock for MV as part of the annual sheep and goat surveillance survey.”
“I want to look more at that issue. <BR /> <BR />I have also engaged quite a lot with my colleagues in the South on their sheep support scheme. They have a different fiscal environment around this, but I and my officials are working to see what we can do in Northern Ireland in the context of the resource challenges that we have, because we have to roll out our future farm support development programme and be conscious of making sure that we have a business case that can stack up. <BR /> <BR />The other issue is MV, which came up during Question Time and during this debate. I gave an assurance during Question Time that any decisions around that will come to the Committee first for engagement. Hopefully, people will understand the authenticity in my desire to engage with the Committee on that.”
“Therefore, I have formally asked the Minister of Finance for resource DEL to be baselined, treated as Executive earmarked funding for these purposes and uplifted in line with inflation as part of the Budget for next year. I assure Members that I will do all I can to support the farming industry in Northern Ireland with the resources that I have. <BR /> <BR />There are two other issues that I want to talk about, one of which is wool. That was discussed a wee bit in the Chamber. There is an issue with how much more we value wool and how much we can use it as a resource, and I have been engaging with Ulster Wool on that. I have also written to the Economy Minister about how we can collaborate on the issue. I am very conscious of the issue, and I think that it is a real shame that wool is not valued as much in our society and in our economy.”
“It is too early in the policy development process to indicate what might be included in any sheep scheme moving forward, but I have asked officials to explore opportunities for a sheep scheme on a per-farm basis rather than a per-animal or per-ewe basis. We are trying our best to look forward to see what we can provide. <BR /> <BR />I must make it clear that any decision to introduce new policies or programmes for the sheep sector will be made in the context of budget availability. The existing funding for agriculture, agrienvironment, fisheries and rural development continues to be earmarked by Treasury until 31 March next year. It is important to provide certainty on that funding after that in light of the change announced by the Chancellor on 30 October this year.”
“As part of that process, it is planned that sheep-focused co-design will take place via the established agricultural policy stakeholder group forum, subject to resource and competing priorities. I also met the task force and representatives of the National Sheep Association to hear first-hand their concerns and ambitions. I welcome that as the start of constructive engagement on the issue. <BR /> <BR />As I have outlined, under WTO requirements, there is limited additional scope for the introduction of a payment per animal or ewe. In addition, how a future scheme can be delivered and controlled needs to be carefully considered.”
“Given the different fiscal landscapes in which the two Departments operate, it is not possible to draw comparisons or for me to provide similar levels of support, because the South has different fiscal arrangements and is part of the EU, and that is where the benefits arise. <BR /> <BR />The sheep industry task force has provided a comprehensive report to identify the needs of the sheep sector in Northern Ireland and proposed a package to encourage its development. That will help inform future policy decisions for the sheep sector. My officials met the task force in September to discuss its report and agreed to work in partnership with the task force to explore opportunities for future sheep support.”
“I am aware of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in the South's sheep improvement scheme and national sheep welfare scheme. They currently provide financial support of up to €200 — sorry, not €200, but, with the way the general election is going down South, it could be. Those schemes provide financial support of up to €20 per breeding ewe to farmers to improve the quality and welfare of their flock. That is funded under Ireland's common agricultural policy strategic plan. I note Mr Gaston's praise of the situation in the South.”
“I am always keen to learn from others about interventions that can support farmers, and DAERA engages regularly at both ministerial and official level with our counterparts in other UK Administrations and in the South to discuss agricultural policy and to share best practice.”
“Of those 2,800 sheep businesses, over two thirds are classified as part-time businesses, supplemented with some form of off-farm employment, and approximately 80% are located in less-favoured areas. The sheep-only farm businesses will be able to avail themselves of other schemes in the farm support and development programme in addition to the new farm sustainability payment. Those schemes are the farming with nature package, the carbon footprinting, knowledge transfer, capital investment measures and so on. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that the industry needs to advance genetic improvement in the sheep sector. However, the best approach to deliver that still has to be agreed. I have been asked to outline my plans to support and safeguard the future viability of sheep farming today, and I am happy to do that.”
“The 17% redirection that is referred to is, therefore, the ceiling limit that can be used in compliance with the WTO green-box requirements to redirect funding to, for example, the beef carbon reduction scheme, the protein crop scheme and the planned suckler cow scheme. <BR /> <BR />Of the almost 10,000 farms that keep sheep, 62% have cattle, and the majority of those farm businesses will be able to avail themselves of the new beef schemes. Based on 2023 figures, there are around 2,800 farms with approximately 220,000 breeding ewes, representing 11% of the total sheep population, which will be unable to avail themselves of support under the beef schemes.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members raised the lack of support for sheep farming under the future agriculture policy. Whilst I recognise that, at this point, there is no dedicated scheme for sheep farming, the programme will provide options for all farm businesses in Northern Ireland, including sheep-only businesses, to maximise the sustainable returns that they can achieve from the assets at their disposal by providing opportunities to secure and improve the viability and sustainability of individual businesses. Members have also highlighted the 17% reduction in the basic payment for sheep farmers. I am conscious that we must keep to our obligations under the Windsor framework, in that 83% of our gross domestic support in the agri-sector must be WTO green box-compliant.”
“My Department's new transformational farm support and development programme is being co-designed with the Northern Ireland agriculture industry and other key food and environment stakeholders. The overall aim is a transition to a more sustainable farming sector by seeking to implement policies and strategies that benefit our climate and environment while supporting our economically and socially significant agriculture sector. Through striving to achieve its four outcomes of increased productivity, better environmental sustainability, improved long-term resilience and effective and functioning supply chains, the programme will have a transformational role in the delivery of my key priorities. The programme will be introduced in a phased manner over the coming months and years, with a firm focus on a genuine just transition.”
“That results in higher greenhouse gas emissions for lambs in SDAs compared with those in DAs or on lowland farms. It is interesting to note that, according to a recently published Institute of Grocery Distribution report, sheep meat has the highest carbon intensity per unit of protein, some 4% higher than suckler beef, 55% higher than dairy beef and 75% to 80% higher than pig and chicken meat. We need to ensure that the work we carry out to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and reach net zero is fair and that it supports people on that journey. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that great work has already been done in the agriculture sector, including the sheep sector, and that has to be built upon. That is why we need to provide incentives and support.”
“Sheep also account for a proportion of greenhouse gas emissions that are generated by fuel use in agricultural vehicles and emissions from nitrogen fertilisers and lime that is applied to agricultural land. <BR /> <BR />On the impact of sheep farming on severely disadvantaged areas (SDAs), I acknowledge that the carbon footprint of ewes in SDAs is 8% lower than those on lowland farms, as demonstrated by analysis of the Northern Ireland data in the greenhouse gas emission inventory. That lower footprint is mainly due to the smaller size of ewes farmed in SDAs. However, it should be noted that ewes in SDAs also rear 0·5 fewer lambs per ewe and have higher replacement rates than ewes kept in disadvantaged areas (DAs) or on lowland farms.”
“<BR /> <BR />Like all farmers, sheep farmers work in difficult conditions and must adapt to and deal with changing weather patterns and fluctuating input costs and product prices. The obligations of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 must be met, and the House is aware that we have many environmental challenges. I know those all too well. The greenhouse gas emission data for 2022, as published by the National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory, indicate that sheep directly account for 327 kilotons of carbon dioxide equivalents or 7·2% of livestock-sourced emissions. Of the total sheep emissions, 97% is attributable to methane that is produced during the digestion process.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am, however, also aware of the challenges that impact on the sheep sector. As I mentioned, the majority of sheep flocks in Northern Ireland are small. The sector is reliant on export markets — that was touched on in the debate — with 52% of sheep and lamb that is produced in Northern Ireland being exported for slaughter or breeding in 2023. In recent years, the market value of sheep wool has also been low. There is limited use of performance recording, which is a key driver in genetic improvement, compared with other regions in the UK. Furthermore, from a health and welfare perspective, in some flocks, there may be limited disease investigation and screening. Disease control in those flocks tends to rely on blanket flock treatment rather than on targeted interventions.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am aware that sheep prices have improved in recent months, although production costs are high and overall sheep production remains less profitable than other enterprises on a gross margin basis. Less-favoured areas (LFAs) account for a large proportion of our agricultural area in Northern Ireland and are home to the majority of breeding sheep and suckler cows, as well as many of our most valuable habitats and visually appealing landscapes. In 2023, 79% of sheep and 75% of suckler cows were farmed in LFAs. Sheep in LFAs play an important role in the protection of the environment. They help with the control of scrub encroachment and managing heather growth, delivering benefits for the environment. I have seen that on many farms across Northern Ireland.”
“Those farms account for 41% of the total sheep flock. I have seen one example of that in County Antrim. I am very conscious that there is real diversity in the industry. I was at Campbell Tweed's farm, and I really appreciated the welcome that Campbell also gave me. <BR /> <BR />The sheep industry accounted for 3·8% of the total gross output of Northern Ireland agriculture in 2023. While relatively small in comparison with other sectors, such as dairy or beef, sheep farming contributes to the livelihood of 37% of Northern Ireland farm businesses. It also contributes to the wider rural economy through the demand for specialist contractors and auxiliary services. That has already been discussed in the debate.”
“I really appreciated the warm welcome that he gave me and my officials. <BR /> <BR />I would like to provide an overview of the sheep industry in Northern Ireland and outline what I do to recognise the valuable role of sheep in the agri-food industry. In June 2023, the Northern Ireland agricultural census indicated that there were approximately two million sheep on almost 10,00 farm businesses across Northern Ireland. Many of those farm businesses have mixed enterprises, with sheep forming an integral part of the business. I have seen many examples of that. Typically, flock sizes in Northern Ireland tend to be small, with 67% of farm businesses having flocks of fewer than 100 ewes, representing just 10% of the total sheep population. Conversely, less than 2% of farm businesses, which is around 180 farms, have flocks of more than 500 ewes.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will address some of the issues that were raised in the debate towards the end of my speech, if people are happy with that, particularly on MV. I thank Members for bringing the issue to the Assembly for discussion. At the outset, I would like to make one confession, which is that my favourite farmed animals are sheep. I am very fond of them, so I am very happy to speak on the issue. That is not to say that I do not love other farmed animals; I love all farmed animals equally, but I have particular fondness for sheep. On taking up ministerial office, one of the first farms that I visited was Clement Lynch's farm up near Park in County Derry/Londonderry. He gave me a real first-hand understanding of the issues that are associated with sheep farming in Northern Ireland.”
“I entirely agree on the quality of locally produced lamb: it is great. Does the Member also acknowledge that one of the consequences of EU exit was the trade policies pursued by the previous UK Government to incentivise the import of lamb from outside the UK and Ireland?”
“Sorry: I did not expect that from a Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I outlined clearly the reason for the appeal. The written ministerial statement is on the Assembly website.”
“The Member will be aware that I outlined the associated issues in a written ministerial statement dated 9 July 2024. That statement outlines clearly that the appeal is being made purely on constitutional grounds.”
“I am keen to work with my Executive colleagues so that we can deliver for the people of Northern Ireland.”
“I am working with colleagues to explore what more funding we can provide for rural development for our rural communities. I want to engage with the Finance Minister on that, because there are specific issues in rural communities that are not being adequately addressed. I outlined some of those in the Chamber earlier today: childcare, mental health and housing. There are so many issues on which we want to work together to provide support. <BR /> <BR />On Saturday, I was delighted to be in Glynn, just outside Larne, to visit Jubilee Farm, which is another example of a community farm that is doing really well. We need to consider how we can support those as part of our rural communities. <BR /> <BR />I am doing a lot of work and a lot of positive things.”
“I am acutely aware that, as a result of EU exit, the funding support previously provided under the rural development programme has wound down. The money that we receive, around £330 million, which is currently earmarked by Treasury, comes as a result of calculations from pillar 1 and pillar 2 payments. Those include payments previously made under the rural development programme.”
“Rural communities have featured quite heavily in Question Time today, and rightly so, because rural communities are absolutely key to the future of Northern Ireland. We are a largely rural society, and that is why it is right that it is debated today. <BR /> <BR />I am taking forward a number of actions, one of which relates to future rural affairs policy. We will go out to consultation on that in the short time ahead, and I will be grateful to get people's feedback. There are also issues to do with how we support the networks across Northern Ireland. As Minister, I have stepped up in that regard, and I have been chairing quarterly engagement sessions with them, because it is important that that process of co-design is led from the front by the Minister.”
“I would have to examine my Department's vires and what the particular ask is, but if the Member is about today or tomorrow, I am happy to have an informal chat with him, so that we can have further discussions on the matter.”
“I am very aware of the recent flooding incidents across Northern Ireland, and I know that my colleague in the Executive Gordon Lyons has activated the flood support grants associated with that and is working in conjunction with councils. <BR /> <BR />The Member raises a particularly valuable point, because the farming community does step up, not just during flooding incidents but during periods of heavy snowfall. It is something that I am happy to engage with the Member on if he has any constructive suggestions on how we can further strengthen those relationships.”
“There was significant engagement in the run-up to getting it agreed. There will be engagement going forward with the programme board. I will check out the specifics on dieticians and how they are involved. The Member makes a useful point, and it is something that we should consider.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The food strategy was agreed by the Executive just recently. As I outlined previously, we were able to launch that, and it was good that we were able to do that. The next step is to launch the action plan. It is my desire that we launch that at the Balmoral show.”
“I am aware of report's finding on that, and we will consider it. There is a resource challenge associated with doing the testing and an issue to do with people being able to understand that, if the tests are being reported as good for bathing water quality but then there is a heavy rainfall, it has to be interpreted in that context to be able to use bathing waters responsibly. It is something that we will consider. The Office for Environmental Protection has provided that report. We will give consideration to it and write back and ensure that the Member gets a copy.”
“It is key for me, in an area where bathing waters are very popular, that we seek to strengthen what we can do in that area.”
“I welcome the Office for Environmental Protection report. It is a constructive contribution to the issue of bathing water quality in Northern Ireland. The Member rightly outlines that people are using our bathing waters not only for swimming but for other things, such as surfing and paddleboarding. I have to confess that I have not yet taken the plunge in open-water swimming but I might be persuaded to do it if the Member is prepared to join me. <BR /> <BR />We will consider the report's recommendations in the time ahead, because a number of them are policy recommendations that also require not just resources but working in partnership with councils. I met those partners last week at Crawfordsburn Country Park. We had a useful engagement on those issues and talked about the Office for Environmental Protection report.”
“We want to encourage more of those community and social farms, going forward. That is something that I am looking at as Minister.”
“As I have outlined, the first principle is about the right to food. That is where the whole-of-government approach comes in. We can work across government to deal with the issue. The Member will be aware, from visiting local food banks in north Down and beyond, as I have done, that the real indictment on our society is the fact that we have people struggling to feed their families. That is why I have the issue as my top principle in the food strategy framework. We want to take that forward in an action plan and work collaboratively on the issues. <BR /> <BR />When I was in Carrickfergus, I was inspired to see what happens there with its community greengrocer. Loads of people came together to set up that community greengrocer. It is thriving. It is selling produce from the local area. That is great.”
“<BR /> <BR />Coming out of those priorities are a number of key decision-making principles. The top principle is about the right to food and ensuring that everyone has the right to adequate, available, accessible, safe and nutritious food. Now that we have it agreed by the Executive, and I have been able to launch it, I am determined that we will work together so that we can launch an action plan early next year and drive forward its delivery, because it is key that we view food in a much better way.”
“I was delighted to be in Carrickfergus recently and at the College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE) Loughry campus in Cookstown to launch the food strategy framework. It is a positive move forward, with a whole-of-government approach and, to be honest, a whole-of-society approach to food. It sets in place four key priorities and a number of key principles, going forward. Priority one is enabling improved dietary-related health outcomes through education and increased accessibility to healthy, nutritious food; priority two is about building an environmentally sustainable and resilient agri-food supply chain; priority three is about delivering a prosperous food economy; and priority four is about building a food culture and a food-conscious society.”
“The Member highlights a number of the cost pressures within my Department around animal health. Those pressures need to be met in the budget for the next financial year. The challenges in my Department are not only around supporting the farming community by way of financial support but extend to what we can do around animal health. We talked earlier about animal welfare, and that is why I have been engaging with the Finance Minister about the budget settlement for the year ahead, to see what more we can do for the people of Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I have not taken any decision in relation to that, and no submissions have arrived for my approval in that regard. If they do, I will give the issue due consideration. I will engage with the Committee on any further steps beyond that, because it is important that we do that. MV is a challenge not just for my Department but for the farming community in Northern Ireland. It is something that I am conscious of. I get the concerns, and I hear them: I hear them in the Chamber, and I hear them when I am out and about. I can guarantee that if we are taking any steps, we will ensure that there is proper communication and engagement with the Committee.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am seeing calls from businesses on our taking forward action to drive decarbonisation and their support for net zero. What I want us to do, in this place and beyond, is to travel that course together. Yes, it is about livelihoods but it is also about lives. It is not lost on me that, in recent times, we have seen many examples of lives being lost as a result of the impact of climate change. That weighs heavily upon me, and it is something that we need to tackle in Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Whilst there are legal obligations in setting the carbon budgets and then moving forward to set the climate action plan, there are also great opportunities for Northern Ireland. One reason why I am doing this job is because I believe in Northern Ireland and have hope for the future. I believe that by driving forward implementation of the climate change legislation, and also, very soon, the green growth strategy that I will bring to the Executive for approval, we can create a future that is about good green jobs. This is about prosperity for the people of Northern Ireland and ensuring that it is a just and fair transition, so that no one is left behind and we include everyone on the road to net zero. That is absolutely key.”
“The setting of the carbon budgets is, as the Member outlined, a requirement of the Climate Change Act, and the regulations were considered and agreed by the Executive on 21 November. Work is now progressing to move the regulations to set the carbon budgets for 2023-27, and the 2040 emissions target, through the Assembly process. My Department will lay the draft legislation for debate in the Assembly and approval as soon as possible. I will bring the draft climate action plan to Executive colleagues as soon as possible, seeking their approval to publish the plan for a 16-week consultation, as required by the legislation.”
“That will be key, and I am really valuing the input from the Committee on these issues.”
“One of the key issues — you have raised it — is how we work together as a Government to ensure that the needs of rural communities are heard and acted upon. In conjunction with officials, we will be moving very soon to consultation on future rural affairs policy. It is not just my Department that has a role to play. All Departments have a role in that, and it is about bringing that together so that we can take a much more unified approach. You outlined issues that are being faced in rural communities. There is another particular issue: childcare. Childcare is not just an urban issue, it is particularly an issue in rural communities. There is also mental health and how much more we can support rural communities on those issues. I am looking forward to going out to consultation on that rural affairs policy.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Rural Needs Act is a key piece of legislation. A review of it was undertaken, and 25 recommendations came back. I am aware that the Committee considered those at its last meeting. I listened to the audio recording of that over the weekend, and I am keen to see what more we can do. What we can do about those recommendations has been outlined. However, I want to go further and see what more we can do about funding support for rural communities.”
“I was glad to be able to attend that meeting with the Infrastructure and Health Ministers. Following that, departmental officials have attended two Department for Infrastructure community transport cross-departmental working group meetings. Whilst the budget associated with the assisted rural travel scheme is due to be baselined in the Department for Infrastructure's budget from 2025-26, my officials will continue meet DFI to ensure that the needs of rural dwellers are given due regard. That is something that I am quite keen on.”
“It was good to be at that meeting. I covered infrastructure before becoming a Minister, and I am passionate about it. Kellie Armstrong, who is part of our team, keeps me right on the issues. Community transport is key, particularly in rural communities.”
“I have attended meetings of that alongside my two counterpart Ministers. The working group will consider whether transport in the community can provide a more cost-effective, value-for-money service delivery model to meet the needs of rural users. It will also investigate the potential for community transport providers to be part of a collaborative group of transport options and pathways that can be accessed by the population.”
“Since it was introduced in 2011-12, my Department has provided funding of just over £8 million to the Department for Infrastructure to support the delivery of the assisted rural travel scheme. In recent years, my Department has provided £560,000 annually to the Department for Infrastructure. It is intended that that will be transferred to the Department for Infrastructure as part of the opening Budget 2025-26 outcome and will be included in that Department's baseline for future years. <BR /> <BR />My officials will continue to meet their counterparts in the Department for Infrastructure to ensure that rural dwellers' needs are adequately considered. A working group has been established that includes officials from the Department for Infrastructure, the Department of Health and my Department.”