Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“Work has also commenced to provide me with advice on the appointment of an expert group that will review dog breeding regulations to provide an assessment of the need for regulation of canine fertility services. I note that that was warmly welcomed by stakeholders, because it is important that we look at how we can address the issue comprehensively. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to a licensing framework for animal welfare establishments, many of those are already subject to a licensing regime, including pet shops and riding, animal boarding and zoological establishments. In addition, the licensing of dog breeding by councils includes an inspection of premises. The Dogs (Northern Ireland) Order 1983 already contains powers for councils to establish and maintain dog pounds.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will group questions 5 and 6. <BR /> <BR />I confirm that my Department is advancing preparations to introduce a version of Lucy's law for Northern Ireland. In the coming weeks, I intend to launch a full public consultation on mandatory CCTV in abattoirs. I am also actively considering my animal welfare priorities for the remainder of the mandate to ensure that the most pressing needs are addressed. I have engaged in a series of meetings with stakeholders to outline my proposed priorities and listen to their feedback. Those priorities include a prohibition on the use of aversive training devices, such as electric shock collars, which are really wrong, folks; the mandatory microchipping of pet cats; and the strengthening of dog microchipping requirements by making it an offence not to update records.”
“The Member makes an interesting point. I am happy to take it up with the Minister for Communities to see what opportunities might arise from it.”
“I am engaging with the new Finance Minister on the issues. Yes, we have dual market access, about which the leader of the Opposition is chuntering from a sedentary position. I have promoted that quite often. In general, however, Brexit has not worked out very well for the UK, particularly for rural communities.”
“One thing that has perhaps been overlooked is the impact of Brexit on the rural development programme. It is something that I see every day in my Ministry. When I visited Loughmacrory, I saw the facilities that had been supported there, but funding was not available thereafter. Brexit was a really bad idea for not just Northern Ireland but the rest of the UK. It has flatlined our economy and failed our rural communities. Let us collectively come together, however.”
“I was able to see the facilities there that he and the community have been involved in delivering. They are fantastic facilities, and the rural development programme helped deliver them. Let us see what we can do in the time ahead to support rural communities across Northern Ireland.”
“I assure the Member that we are giving active consideration to that. The previous Minister, who is in the Chair today — I am not looking for any extra time as a result of my saying this — introduced the scheme as a pilot initiative. We have to consider where that fits into our new policy and provide a bit of sustainability. We want to assure people that it is not just a pilot scheme but that we are able to continue with it. We need to compile business cases and follow the proper governance processes, but proper consideration is being given to it. <BR /> <BR />The rural development programme delivered strong benefits for rural communities. We are giving consideration to the impact of its having been withdrawn and to what we can do together on the issue. The Member kindly welcomed me to Loughmacrory on New Year's Eve.”
“We are giving active consideration to how we can support rural halls in the context of the new policy. Initial discussion took place with officials last week about that. It is something that I want to tease out a bit more, however. I understand why many people have made representations to me about the importance of rural halls, and their importance was demonstrated in the aftermath of the recent storm. The scheme's inclusion is being given active consideration. I am happy to meet the Member in the time ahead. He may wish to put in a request to my private office to discuss the matter further.”
“The findings, lessons learned and recommendations will be considered in full and factored into the development of any new rural policy proposals. My Department's 2024-25 business plan has committed to developing for consultation a new evidence-based rural policy. It is my intention that draft proposals will be consulted on this year.”
“<BR /> <BR />As the Member has rightly said previously, the rural halls refurbishment scheme concluded in January 2024. It was a rural policy framework pilot initiative that provided capacity building, training and grants up to a maximum of £40,000 for rural community and voluntary sector organisations to deliver capital works for rural halls, with the aim of keeping those community facilities viable and sustainable, and, in many cases, enabling them to offer additional services. <BR /> <BR />In 2024, I established a new rural policy unit, which was tasked with developing future rural policy for Northern Ireland. As part of that work, previous rural policy initiatives and interventions, including the rural halls refurbishment scheme, are being reviewed and evaluated.”
“I thank Mr Buchanan for his question. The question is about rural communities and rural halls, so I record my thanks to the rural communities across Northern Ireland for the support that they have given to so many people who were affected by the recent storm. As I have said a number of times, I am very grateful for the work that farmers in particular have undertaken in the aftermath of the storm to help clear roads and support local communities. It is important that I put that on record. <BR /> <BR />During the storm, a lot of people in rural communities used their rural hall. The Member has been a good advocate for rural halls. I will answer the question, but I have heard some of the representations that he has made on the issue. It is important that he understand that I have been listening, and I will see what my Department can do.”
“Part of the consultation that was undertaken last year, which I have talked about, related to businesses and waste. I will announce a way forward on that over the time ahead. There are already laws in place around the issue of businesses and packaging. I am happy to write to the Member to outline the situation and the requirements placed on them.”
“If you read the 'Irish Farmers Journal', you will see where it is going. Some of this is in its infancy. I want to be able to make more firm announcements on how we can coordinate across Departments on the issue over the year ahead.”
“The Member talks about an issue that I am quite excited about. It is a positive development in farming. There is so much good work in farming, and some of it has been highlighted today. <BR /> <BR />The role of anaerobic digestion is growing, and we need to make sure that we do it in a coordinated fashion. I engage with the Economy Minister on it, because there are new opportunities from it. We see it take place in farming. We also have to consider where the planning process sits around it. I have been having discussions on that with the Infrastructure Minister, and I will take forward discussions with the Economy Minister, because there is an overlap with energy production. Quite a lot of work on the issue is under way. <BR /> <BR />I am also conscious of the developments in the South.”
“There will be significant benefits. My officials have been working closely with the Department for the Economy — I congratulate Caoimhe Archibald on her appointment as Minister for the Economy — on the development of a circular economy strategy to support the ambition of delivering a low-carbon circular economy. The draft circular economy strategy for Northern Ireland identifies the benefits of a circular economy to individuals. It states that, for example:”
“Thank you, Mr Brett. The Member raises an important issue, in that one of the other issues that relate to this is how we can create better public understanding of what can and cannot be recycled and which bins to use. Sometimes, there is confusion around that. Last year, my officials undertook a consultation around recycling. We have been working through the outcome of that consultation. We will engage with the Committee on that, of course. Part of that will be issuing a bit more guidance to councils about what can be done regarding household recycling and having a bit more uniformity around the issues. The Member raises important issues.”
“Since the programme's launch in June 2019, £8·26 million has been allocated to seven councils for 12 projects. Allocations of funding under the programme must be made by 31 March 2026. Further information on the fund and application process can be found on the DAERA website. <BR /> <BR />In addition, my Department provides funding to the waste and resources action programme to provide essential local council support, including specialist technical guidance, as well as delivering key national and regional behaviour change campaigns. My Department has been engaging frequently with all 11 local councils to ensure that Northern Ireland is best placed to meet the ambitious recycling targets set by the House in legislation, including the 70% recycling target set out in the Climate Change Act.”
“I am committed to assisting local councils to transform kerbside recycling and household recycling centre infrastructure and services to help meet our recycling targets and deliver a circular economy in Northern Ireland through my Department's £23 million household waste recycling collaborative change programme. That is a bit of a mouthful. The programme supports capital projects that improve both the quantity and quality of household recycling collected, which is vital in helping to keep our valuable resources in use for longer and reducing consumption of virgin materials. Reducing the quantity of residual waste will also reduce reliance on landfill and recovery. <BR /> <BR />Funding of up to 50% of eligible costs is available to local councils.”
“Yes. I stand here in this role to serve all constituents in Northern Ireland fairly. That is what I am doing, and that is what leadership is about.”
“I am working hard to deliver for farmers in Northern Ireland. I am proud of that. I have delivered key successes in the draft Budget. We are the only region of the UK to get ring-fenced funding for agriculture, agrienvironment, fisheries and rural development not just for the next financial year but for future years. Other regions of the UK have not achieved that. I have achieved a just transition fund for agriculture. Being able to put that in place and support farmers is absolutely key. That is what I am doing. <BR /> <BR />I am also being honest. The Member mentioned reducing regulation: have you seen the situation in Lough Neagh, Mr Buckley?”
“I declare that I am on the board of governors of Rathmore Primary School. There are things that we can do, as MLAs and Ministers, to address division in our society. We can promote, encourage and facilitate integrated education. We can deliver shared housing. It should be a collective endeavour.”
“<BR /> <BR />In designing our climate policies across all Departments, we need to think about the unique circumstances that we face in Northern Ireland. Duplication of services compounds division, adds to a lack of contact, leads to mistrust and can decrease connectivity. However, that is where we can join up our policies. Reducing our carbon footprint, adapting to the effects of climate change, improving our environment and increasing biodiversity can really help the communities that are most disadvantaged. Improved good relations and working together on the shared climate challenge can increase cohesion and resilience and bring communities together. <BR /> <BR />We need to deal with the division in our society. It affects our environment. It is one of the climate change issues. There are key opportunities for change.”
“The council's 'Segregation and the Environment' report highlights the issues that we face with duplication of services: lack of connectivity between people and communities; parallel services and buildings that all need to become climate-resilient; and additional costs that we therefore bear, both financially and in terms of a greater carbon footprint at city level. Other cities and regions do not face a legacy of segregation and duplication of services in their climate journey. We know that segregation can lead to divisions; the duplication of public services, like separate bus routes; and additional travel, which increases traffic, emissions and costs. Therefore, Belfast may have to do more than other cities to achieve the same results.”
“If we, across the Assembly, can lead the transition to net zero, making use of green growth, creating good local jobs, improving the environment we live in and reducing climate impact, we will see opportunities for better lives ahead.”
“Climate change is a shared problem and needs a collective action solution. Segregation hampers communities' abilities to work together collectively, whether the segregation is physical or psychological. In the transformation to net zero, we need to be aware of our unique history and the challenges that we face but also the opportunities, and the council's report recognises that. <BR /> <BR />Divided communities and the fear of violence and antisocial behaviour can lead not just to reduced connectivity but to poverty, poor physical and mental health, unemployment and educational underachievement. Dealing with climate change positively and working together will provide co-benefits that will help address those issues.”
“My officials have regular engagement with many of our local authorities that are leading the way in some of their innovative local climate initiatives. I am aware of and have read Belfast City Council's important work through the development of the report, 'Segregation and the Environment: Breaking Down Barriers'. Later this month, I will be meeting the authors of the report. The report outlines the environmental impact caused by duplication of services and reduced access to environmental projects. It highlights the need not just in Belfast but across Northern Ireland to tackle those barriers in order to hit our statutory emission reduction targets and achieve a just and fair transition to a net zero society by 2050. <BR /> <BR />The impacts of climate change do not discriminate. They will affect all of us.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. It took a while to get the EIP agreed, but I am a runner and I do marathons. What you do is train harder and work hard at it. That is what I do with my Executive colleagues, and that is how we get progress in this place as part of a power-sharing Executive. <BR /> <BR />I share the Member's concerns about Mobuoy. I visited the site last year, and it is concerning to see what occurred there. I have received a submission from officials about a consultation on the remediation options for Mobuoy. I have agreed that we should proceed with that. It will start in spring. It is important that people feed into the consultation and give us their views about that. It is important that we move to that next stage on this important issue.”
“That includes the significant achievement of setting Northern Ireland's first three carbon budgets, which was done at the end of last year. I thank my Executive colleagues and MLAs for their support in reaching that milestone. Their support will be required over the time ahead as we continue to deliver on the environmental improvement plan.”
“It is public knowledge that I tabled the EIP for Executive approval in March last year, public knowledge because the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP) opened an investigation because of the delays in getting approval. <BR /> <BR />Approval was, however, obtained, and the EIP was laid before the Assembly on 27 September 2024. While it has enabled us to move our collective focus towards implementation and monitoring delivery, Members will understand that time has been limited since the EIP was finalised for relevant Departments to take forward the actions in the plan. However, I am pleased to advise that 11 actions with target dates of 2024 plus a further three actions in the environmental improvement plan have been delivered.”
“Before I commence my answer, I want, one year since taking up office as Minister, to thank the officials in my Department who have supported me over the last 12 months and the officials in the Assembly who organise the business here. I approach each Question Time with trepidation. Apparently, that is the way it should be. It is an important moment for Assembly Members to scrutinise Ministers, and I value that opportunity. <BR /> <BR />On Sinéad McLaughlin's question, it is important to note that Executive approval for the environmental improvement plan or EIP — another acronym in my Department — was obtained just three months before the end of 2024.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we focus on what this is. The SR is simply about bringing us back to the cross-compliance standards that applied before October 2022 and apply in every other EU member state and Scotland and Wales. It is important that we get ourselves back to that. What happened in October 2022, in the absence of the Assembly, was wrong, and I am seeking to rectify that.”
“I understand that, Mr McGlone, but that is exactly what the SR seeks to do. I have a lot of respect for you and a very good relationship, but the past year, with the SDLP being the official Opposition, has been difficult because there have been many moments of rank hypocrisy. You have the leader of the Opposition berating me to take action while your party has shown an abject abdication of responsibility through its opposition to this. You cannot criticise the situation at Lough Neagh, want to support the agri-food industry and vote against the SR. You cannot have your cake and eat it. You cannot do that.”
“— we cannot vote for the prayer of annulment because it is an abdication of responsibility. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to give way to Patsy.”
“I will continue. Politics is about leadership and taking difficult decisions. The Secretary of State has talked about that today. We need to do that. When we come to the vote —”
“However, when I present a concrete proposal to the Committee and the Assembly, people scatter.”
“I received no formal correspondence from the Committee on this. Each week, I watch the Committee's proceedings. It is an important Committee. You analyse and consider the issues, and I like to think that I have respectful relationships with Committee members. The gist that I got of that Committee meeting was that we should change the SR and focus only on environmental and water quality breaches: that entirely undervalues the importance of farm-to-fork traceability and animal health and disease. <BR /> <BR />I am responding to the motion feeling despondent and depressed. I get criticised and told that we need to do more on the environment and water quality, support our agri-food industry and assure customers about the fantastic, quality food that we have in Northern Ireland, and I work really hard to do that.”
“I will continue. <BR /> <BR />Many talk the talk: you need to walk the walk and join me as I go through the Noes Lobby. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to give way to the Chair of the Committee.”
“We are all aware of the huge public concern about the condition of our environment, particularly water quality, and the health and welfare of animals. I therefore instructed my officials to proceed to make the regulations, which took effect on 1 January 2025. The regulations are an important means to encourage responsible stewardship, deter wrongdoing and protect our environment when farmers continually disregard the standards that are required. <BR /> <BR />If you are genuinely serious about wanting to improve water quality and our environment and, importantly, support our critical agri-food industry and farm-to-fork traceability, you cannot, in all conscience, vote for the motion.”
“On 14 August 2024, my officials commenced an eight-week, focused consultation with 21 key stakeholders, including the Ulster Farmers' Union, the Rural Community Network and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds. The four organisations that responded to the consultation supported my intention to reverse the changes. Following that, on 20 November 2024, officials from my Department provided an oral briefing to the AERA Committee. Members expressed some concern about the impact on farmers who breach environmental or animal welfare and traceability standards: I respectfully disagree.”
“I will continue. We are not an outlier in relation to animal health, traceability or environmental standards. We cannot afford to do that. <BR /> <BR />I instructed officials in my Department to begin the process of reversing those changes.”
“I want to bring us into line with the European Union and with Scotland and Wales. Cross-compliance has been entirely abolished in England, and it is moving towards a very different set-up. That is what I am trying to do. We are not an outlier.”
“Farmers who have their penalties capped at 15% have breached the same specific requirement at least three times within three years. Some of those breaches, including water pollution, are of high-level severity. I do not think that it is fair that penalties are reduced for repeated breaches of environmental and animal health standards. I do not think that that is fair to the public or the vast majority of our farmers who play by the rules.”
“Intentional breaches attract penalties of between 15% and 100%, again, depending on the severity. <BR /> <BR />Since 2005, EU regulations required member states to regard repeated negligent breaches of the same requirement as automatically intentional, with higher penalties applying. In 2022, in the absence of a sitting Assembly to scrutinise or vote against that, my predecessor decided to remove the requirement, and repeated negligent breaches were no longer treated as intentional. Penalties for repeated negligence were effectively capped at 15%. Those changes were made in 2022 to schemes that were nationally funded and were extended to all schemes in 2023 following the cessation of EU funding. <BR /> <BR />As Minister, I simply cannot stand over that regime.”
“The standards are not intended to be excessive or onerous and reflect the responsible stewardship shown by the vast majority of our farmers. <BR /> <BR />Where the standards are breached, a financial penalty is applied to the payment received by the farmer concerned. Those are not fines; they are penalties applied to public subsidy. The penalties are applied according to a published scale and are dependent on several factors, including the severity or impact of the breach and whether the breach is intentional or negligent. Negligent breaches attract lower penalties than intentional breaches, as the regime accepts that even good farmers make mistakes. Negligent breaches typically attract penalties of 1%, 3% or 5%, depending on the severity of the breach. Where a breach is repeated, the penalty is doubled.”
“Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the debate on the prayer of annulment. In responding, I will set out the context to explain why my Department has laid the Direct Payments to Farmers (Cross-Compliance) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024. <BR /> <BR />The cross-compliance regime has been in place since 2005, through the implementation of the EU common agricultural policy. Cross-compliance is the set of minimum standards to which all farmers who receive public subsidy should adhere. Those cover environmental protection, as well as standards concerning animal health and welfare. The regime helps to protect our precious habitats and waterways and the animal traceability systems that are vital for trade, disease control and human health.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He mentioned Scotland. Does the Member not recognise that Northern Ireland is an outlier on the issue that we are debating? The changes, which were made in the absence of a sitting Assembly, do not apply in Scotland, nor do they apply in Wales or in any EU member state. Is it not about time that Northern Ireland got back in line with the way in which other places are moving on the issues?”
“I hope that I have addressed all the Members' queries. I have just one query for the Speaker. Mr Speaker, I have not yet read your guidance, but I will read it today. I hope that your direction on ties does not exclude my bow ties. That would hopefully not be your desire.”
“That can only be beneficial not just for Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom but for the European Union. We need to reduce friction and additional confusion or work that businesses have to do, because we need to deliver green growth in the UK economy and more broadly. I continue to raise with the UK Government the need to look at alignment and at working more in partnership as part of that reset with the European Union.”
“In addition, and to reiterate my opening remarks, the Order does not extend the scope of the scheme to additional industrial sectors at this time. Further amendments to expand the scope of the UK ETS to other industrial sectors, such as waste incineration and domestic maritime, to increase the effectiveness of the scheme and further contribute to the UK and devolved Administrations' net zero climate objectives are the subject of ongoing and future UK-wide consultation exercises. In order that we in Northern Ireland, along with the rest of the UK, can continue with our efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through the effective implementation of the UK ETS, we need to approve the Order. <BR /> <BR />Declan McAleer asked about the EU ETS and UK ETS working together on the issues, whether by alignment or by joining the schemes together.”
“I thank the Committee Chair and the Members who contributed to the debate. To summarise, the draft Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) Order 2025 will implement two technical and operational changes to the UK ETS that relate specifically to the treatment and definition of stationary installations that permanently cease to undertake an activity that is regulated by the scheme. The amendments will not impact on Northern Ireland electricity-generating installations, which continue to participate in the EU scheme under the Windsor framework in order to maintain the single electricity market. The Order will eliminate the risk of an installation's receiving an excess of free allowances in its final year of operation and will amend and clarify the definition of "permanent cessation".”