Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“I will do whatever I can to ensure that financial support gets out to rural communities. The budget for next year will determine what I can do with regard to this. I also want to take a fresh approach. The scheme needs to go ahead, and we need to get the money out. It is about how we do grant schemes for rural communities. I want to make sure that we reduce the bureaucracy associated with such schemes. I know that an awful lot of work has to be done for relatively small amounts of money. Let me add, however, that those small amounts of money have a great impact on communities, and it is important that we get that money out to those areas, because it has a real, transformative impact on villages and towns across Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for his question and for his engagement with me in previous weeks with regard to this. I met officials last week, and we talked about the scheme. It is my desire not to delay it and get it off the ground as soon as possible.”
“With your permission, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 6 and 12 together. Both questions ask for updates on the opening of the rural micro capital grant scheme. <BR /> <BR />My officials have completed an evaluation of the 2022 rural micro capital grant scheme. The findings, lessons learned and recommendations from the 2022 evaluation and the independent evaluation of the schemes delivered between 2016 and 2021 have been considered, and the business case proposing to launch the scheme in 2024-25 is at an advanced stage. Subject to my consideration and, importantly, budget availability, I anticipate being in a position to make an announcement regarding the scheme early in the new financial year.”
“It is also important to emphasise that those are upfront costs and that they represent investments in an improved society for future generations. The cost of delaying action would ultimately be much greater. <BR /> <BR />I add that the UK Government's financial settlement to Northern Ireland, which should allow us to live up to our climate change obligations and to take advantage of those opportunities, falls well short. It is about time that the UK Government realised that Northern Ireland is funded below its objective need and that we ought to be allowed to invest in our public services for the good of all the people in Northern Ireland.”
“Work is ongoing to scope out and refine the cost associated with delivering the commitments that will be set out in Northern Ireland's first climate action plan. Some of them will fall to DAERA, but other Departments will bear costs. The Department of Finance commissioned a Budget 2024-25 exercise for Departments on 18 February. My Department is firming up its projected costs and bids for next year as part of that exercise. They will be considered by the Executive along with bids from all Departments in due course. Projected costs for 2025-26 and beyond will be worked up as part of the Budget exercises covering those years. It is important that the costs and opportunities of addressing climate change be embedded in economic appraisal processes.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is important that all Departments live up to their legal obligations arising from the Act. I will engage with the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister for the Economy and the Minister for Communities, all of whom have significant input on the climate action plan, and with my other Executive colleagues once we are able to bring the plan to the Executive. That engagement will be ongoing. I know what my responsibilities are, but there are responsibilities across government and society. It is important that we all live up to them.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The issue of climate change must be central to the next Programme for Government. It is my top priority as Minister, but it should be the top priority across the Government, because there are opportunities arising out of it. If we do not make the associated investment, we will not realise them. I would be delighted to go to one of the next meetings of the APG. It is an important APG. I know that you chair the group, and I will be glad to attend it.”
“I want to ensure that climate change and green growth considerations are central to all policy and budgetary decisions taken by all Departments across Northern Ireland. It is essential that an assessment of climate, environmental and just transition impacts be embedded in decision-making processes. I have already spoken to the Finance Minister about that. Delivering the transformational change that the Act requires will be extremely challenging, but it also presents significant opportunities for our economy, society and environment.”
“In addition, DAERA is leading the development of Northern Ireland's first climate action plan in collaboration with all other Departments. The plan will set out our collective approach to delivering the emissions reductions required to achieve our first carbon budget. The draft climate action plan will be consulted on for 16 weeks. The first climate action plan on which we will consult is dated 2023-27. The fact that we are in 2024 but consulting on a climate action plan that started in 2023 perhaps gives Members a sense of the impact of the collapse of the institutions. <BR /> <BR />Work is also progressing on the establishment of a just transition commission. I hope to issue proposals for that consultation later in 2024.”
“I plan to bring proposals on public body reporting regulations and carbon budgets to the Executive and to Assembly colleagues for their agreement very soon.”
“Progress has been made on key requirements of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, but the absence of a sitting Government for two years has had a real impact on what I can do and what Government can do to implement the obligations set out in the Act. An extensive consultation exercise on public body reporting regulations, which took place last year, proposed 2030 and 2040 emission reduction targets and also carbon budgets.”
“My overall ambition is to eliminate bovine TB in Northern Ireland because of the impact that it has on the farming community and our budget. I must be science- and evidence-led, but I also need to bring stakeholders with me. That is why I did not come here today and announce initial decisions. I will engage with the new Chief Veterinary Officer on what options are available. I will bring options back to the stakeholders and make it clear that we need to find a way forward. <BR /> <BR />TB has been a real problem but it has now become really critical, particularly in Fermanagh, for example. We need to find a way forward but make sure that whatever we do is right and that we are not subject to successful legal challenge, as we were, for example, in relation to the wildlife strategy.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am conscious that whilst we have a 100% compensation rate, it does not cover the full consequential losses to the farm business. The fact that it is referred to as "compensation" implies that we do not fully understand the impact that TB has on the farming community. <BR /> <BR />The budget I receive for next year will determine an awful lot of what I can and cannot do. I do not wish to change the compensation rate, but if the budget is slashed to the extent that I cannot undertake my statutory duties, I will be left with no other place to go.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I have engaged with my counterparts in Ireland and Scotland. I met Charlie McConalogue recently and my Scottish counterpart last week. We discussed the whole issue of bovine TB, which is multifaceted and complex. I am conscious that, whilst our herd infection rate is about 10%, it is 5% in Ireland and well below 1% in Scotland. Therefore, lessons are to be learnt from across the UK and Ireland. I have asked Brian to look at it and see how we can find a way forward. <BR /> <BR />I get Members' concern given the devastating impact that TB can have on a farm. When TB arrives, the impact on mental health, not just of those within that farm but of those in the wider community, is significant. We need to find a way to turn that around.”
“He will get to work on that in the weeks ahead.”
“I agree with the Member. It is not my proposal. The Secretary of State proposed to consult about reducing the compensation rate to 90% and then 75%. That was a consequence of this place not sitting and us being unable to make our own policy decisions. I am determined to bring a fresh approach to the issue and see how we can have a sustainable future for our farming community — and for my Department, but the focus is on the farming community. <BR /> <BR />As Members are aware, we have appointed a new Chief Veterinary Officer (CVO), Brian Dooher, whom I congratulate on his appointment. I have been engaging with my Department's permanent secretary. One of the first tasks that we have asked Brian to do is to take a fresh look at the whole issue of bovine TB and how we can provide a new way forward for Northern Ireland.”
“The budget settlement for the next financial year will have a significant bearing on what my Department can do in that area and many others.”
“As Members will be aware, in September 2023, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland directed my Department to consult on a proposal to reduce the compensation rate for cattle that are removed under the bovine TB programme. My party's position on the Secretary of State's stance on that and his intervention on revenue raising is completely on the record. The consultation closed last Friday, 8 March. My officials have now begun to analyse the responses. When that work is complete, they will provide a detailed summary for my consideration. <BR /> <BR />I am acutely aware of the devastating impact that a TB breakdown can have and the financial challenges that it causes for farmers and farming families. I, therefore, appreciate that any proposal that suggests reducing TB compensation will be extremely difficult for the farming community.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Perhaps, that is one of the biggest issues in the correspondence that we receive as elected Members. The default go-to is the Department for Infrastructure. We need to find a way in which to ensure that those issues are moved along much quicker, because there are public safety concerns when that occurs.”
“That is the bar that is set before it can go. Often, in life, if you try to discuss things before going towards a complaint, they can be resolved. That is why a number of complaints have not progressed.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The legislation states that the complaint progresses only if:”
“I thank the Member for his question. The legislation, as it is drafted, is meant to be a last resort in resolving those issues. Statistics that have been presented to me show that a very small percentage of people actually go towards using the legislation. I am happy to meet the Member if he has any particular concerns about expanding the legislation, but, currently, I see that the legislation is working. Perhaps, discussion needs to be had with councils on their operation of it. As someone who represents the North Down constituency, I know of some particular instances that the Member might want dealt with.”
“Further information for the period of 2016 to 2020 indicates that the number of formal complaints remains low. In addition, the number of queries that have been received by the Department annually is also small, with no significant issues regarding its operation having been raised. I have been presented with no evidence to suggest that a review of the high hedges legislation is needed at this time. I will, however, meet council chief executives in due course through their representative body, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers (SOLACE). I will be happy to discuss any issues that they have with the application of the Act.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The High Hedges Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 is intended to provide a mechanism by which a complainant can resolve a problem that is caused by a high evergreen hedge through their local council if they have approached their neighbour and asked them to reduce its height but have been unable to resolve the issue through discussion. I recognise the problems that hedges can cause if they are neglected or allowed to grow unchecked, which can have a significant impact on householders. <BR /> <BR />Information that has been gathered on the initial functioning of the Act between 2012 and 2016 shows that only a small proportion of initial enquiries that were received by councils progressed to formal complaints.”
“I am conscious of the Act, but I am keen to review it to see whether there is anything more that we can do in legislation within what is left of the mandate to ensure that the needs of rural communities are better reflected and whether the Rural Needs Act is actually fit for purpose.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am very conscious that, under the Rural Needs Act, there is a duty on public authorities to have due regard to the social and economic needs of people in rural areas when exercising their functions. My Department continues to provide support to public authorities to help to ensure that the Act is implemented effectively and delivers better outcomes for rural dwellers. The Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs is not the only Department that is responsible for addressing issues in our rural communities. I intend to work with Executive colleagues.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is important that we evaluate a lot of these funds and see how effective they are. Some of them were cast in a previous era when we were a member of the EU, so we need to make sure that we are meeting the needs of rural communities. In rural communities, I am seeing a sense of isolation, and, at least week's Committee meeting, Patsy McGlone — rightly so — raised the issue of health service transformation and how we can ensure that we reflect the needs of rural communities as part of that. We need to do this evaluation, and we need to ensure that whatever we do is fit for purpose going forward.”
“Other Departments have a responsibility to step forward, but I want to take the lead on this, see what we can do on rural development and refresh our policy on that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I agree with him. I met officials last week to discuss our overall rural development programmes and the policies around this. As Minister, I intend to bring a fresh approach to this to see what more we can do to ensure that rural needs are fully reflected by all Departments, because I am very conscious that this issue does not rest just with me. <BR /> <BR />The ending of the rural development programme, which ran from 2014 to 2020, is of concern to Members and to rural communities. I want to reassure the Member, and the rest of the House, that, despite the cessation of the rural development programme, the Department continues to invest in and support rural communities through a range of initiatives.”
“The main aim of the pilot was to support community groups to enhance digital access for those living in a rural border area. All those initiatives are ongoing through policy evaluation. I will give careful consideration to the needs of marginalised minority communities as I inform my thinking and take decisions on future policies. <BR /> <BR />The House will be aware that the Department for Communities has statutory responsibility for all communities, and it is my intention to engage with Executive colleagues to help to inform future policy direction and to ensure a better outcome for rural dwellers.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My Department has a contract with six rural support networks to deliver the rural community development support service across all rural areas of Northern Ireland. Since 2020-21, my Department has provided additional financial assistance to rural support networks through those contracts to work with community and voluntary groups in marginalised rural border communities where capacity is weak. That financial assistance has enabled the rural support networks to provide tailored support to build the capacity of the community and voluntary groups in rural border areas to play a full and active role in helping their communities to grow and flourish. <BR /> <BR />My Department has also piloted a marginalised minority border communities digital access pilot scheme, which completed in March 2023.”
“I thank the Member for his question and for his detailed understanding of Alliance Party policy. I do not agree that it is in contravention of Alliance Party policy. When one takes up ministerial office, one's duty, first and foremost, is to safeguard the public and not to play party politics with such things. Penalties are laid out in the proposed legislation, and, hopefully, we will not have to resort to them.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I will continue to engage with district councils on that. I am aware of the financial challenges that they and my Department face. It is key that we find a way forward on the matter.”
“It is key that we focus on that, because anything that we do, as a Government, should always be focused on raising awareness around issues like this.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I do not seek to gaslight any breed; I seek to be driven by the evidence to safeguard the public. There is a wider message, which applies to people's responsibility as dog owners, to ensure that their dogs are kept under control so that the public remain safe. The message that I send today is that this is not unique to just one breed; there is a wider issue here. I will say, however, that the overwhelming majority of dog owners are responsible, caring and considerate of other people. That is the message that we need to send very clearly. <BR /> <BR />Whatever funding my Department receives will allow us to do education work on the responsible ownership that the Member alluded to.”
“I thank the Member for his questions. I am conscious of the judicial review in England and the issues associated with it. I am also cognisant of the public safety risk and the need to act swiftly. There will be two negative statutory rules. The desire is that we will lay the first one in April or May; that the second one, which will cover the compensation scheme, will be laid thereafter; and that we will have the scheme operational this summer.”
“If l left it any longer, the risk of more animals coming into Northern Ireland would increase greatly. The decision that I have announced today will, hopefully, provide a clear message and deterrent to anyone who is thinking of coming to Northern Ireland with a dog: enhanced restrictions will be in place to safeguard the welfare of the animal but also the public.”
“On the question of engagement with the RSPCA and the USPCA, I spoke to the USPCA before I made the statement. I am conscious that it does not agree with my position on the ban. However, as Minister, I have to take decisions in the round and to be conscious of public safety. I have made clear my genuine desire to continue to engage with the USPCA and other organisations so that we can shape much better, fit-for-purpose legislation around animal welfare. I understand and have a lot of respect for the genuinely held position that the USPCA takes and what it advocates for. <BR /> <BR />On the issue of more XL bully-type dogs coming to Northern Ireland, the decision that I have announced today sends out a clear message that restrictions will be put in place in Northern Ireland. It is important that I do that.”
“Hopefully, today is an opportunity to remind people of the requirement to license their dog. <BR /> <BR />Some queries may arise as to the cost of the certificate of exemption. We will have to set a price, but we do not intend to generate a profit from the cost of that certificate. The fee that is charged in England is £92·40. We want to work genuinely with district councils on the roll-out of the certificate, because it is primarily district councils that will administer the scheme. I hope that that answers the Member's question.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Under the exemption scheme, the individual owner will apply for a certificate of exemption. A number of conditions will be associated with that. The animal will need to be neutered. It will need to be kept on a leash and muzzled in public. There will also need to be public liability insurance. The animal will need to be kept in secure conditions. The owner must also inform authorities of any change in address, and there will be wider requirements about not selling, exchanging or giving away the animal. <BR /> <BR />I will outline the licensing scheme that we have in Northern Ireland. We are unique in that we continue to have that scheme for dogs in Northern Ireland. I think that that is a good thing. Other parts of the UK do not have that. However, there is a risk that not everyone licenses their dog.”
“All that I ask for is recognition that I have made the decision in full cognisance of the facts and of the need to take a decision on the matter. Frankly, I took this job not because I thought that it was easy but because I knew that it was hard.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I looked through many different options, particularly in relation to the legislation that was presented to me. I looked at what flexibilities would be associated with that, at what options other than euthanasia may exist if the owner decided that they did not wish to apply for an exemption certificate and at whether we could give assistance in rehoming dogs. That was not possible. I honestly and genuinely feel that I can say to the House that I fully explored all options that were available to me in relation to the issue. The decision that I have announced is, to me, the only viable option with which I can proceed. <BR /> <BR />I know that it will cause apprehension and concern for not only owners of the dogs concerned but stakeholders. I get that, and I fully appreciate that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I outlined in the statement, we will seek to use the definition that was adopted by the UK Government. A working group was set up by DEFRA on that matter. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that the fact that I am making an announcement and bringing in enhanced restrictions will cause concern for people. I ask people to give us time to publish guidance and to give clarification on that, because our desire is to do so. It is not a decision that I have rushed into, and I am conscious that, as you said, there are very many responsible owners. Let us be clear: for the overwhelming majority of owners, it will not cause a problem because there will be a road to applying for an exemption certificate. We will be able to ensure that those dogs will continue to be loved and cared for while we safeguard the public.”
“When it comes to farms that are closer to urban areas, people may not understand the need to ensure that their dog is kept under control. It is something that I am concerned about, and I thank those behind the programme on the radio at the weekend for highlighting those issues.”
“I thank the Member for her question. She is right in stating that issue. There are probably two aspects to her question. One is the attacks on other dogs. A Member brought concerns to me about another dog that was killed by an XL bully breed-type dog while the person was out walking the dog. It caused real trauma for the family associated with that dog. The other issue relates to livestock worrying. BBC Radio Ulster's 'Countryside' programme at the weekend highlighted concerns around livestock worrying and the impact that that can have on farming businesses and livestock. I am quite keen to explore with officials what more we can do to deal with that issue. There are enforcement powers, but there are issues with education as well.”
“However, it is not lost on me that I have seen examples of people who have acquired a dog and, frankly, abused it for their own gratification and as a reflection of power. It is a disgrace that anyone would use an animal for their own gratification and desire for control in their community. We need to call time on that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I have been engaging with officials over the last four weeks on a range of areas, including animal welfare and this matter. I will engage with officials again later this week on priorities for policy and legislation in this area. I desire to use secondary and primary legislation to update animal welfare provisions in Northern Ireland. It is important that I set that out as a key priority. The statement does not distract from that. <BR /> <BR />As Minister, in making this decision, I have, I believe, balanced and put at the forefront the issues of public safety and animal welfare. There are many responsible owners of XL bully breed-type dogs, and it is important that I state that.”
“The requirements will include a requirement to obtain public liability insurance. From the figures on the roll-out of the scheme in England and Wales, I understand that 56,000 exemption certificates have been applied for but only 300 people have given up their animals. That gives the context of how that scheme is going. I reiterate the point that Alan Chambers outlined: no perfect solution to this is available to me. All that I am doing is using what is available to me now.”
“and must be handled by a competent person over 16 years of age. Ms Humphreys announced at the end of last year that she would undertake a review of that and of an increase in fines, so this is under active consideration as part of that. This issue is not unique to Northern Ireland. The research that I have done in recent days shows that this is a global issue that challenges Governments across Europe and beyond.”
“I engaged with Minister Humphreys this morning. This is an example of where we need to get the North/South institutions up and running and to work North/South and east-west on these matters. The fact that the institutions did not sit for two years has set us back in relation to that. <BR /> <BR />The legislation in the South differs from that in the North. The South has provision for a restricted dogs list, and, as part of that, restricted dogs must be muzzled, on a:”