Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“The Office for Environmental Protection rightly expects that NAP regulations will be updated and effectively implemented in a timely manner. Making the changes and improvements that are needed will require collective action across the agri-food sector, including feed and fertiliser suppliers and processors. It cannot be left to the Department and farmers. We need to work across the sector to support farmers and get to a more sustainable position on nutrients and water quality. <BR /> <BR />My Department has been delivering a range of funding schemes and initiatives to help farmers to improve water quality and nutrient management. It has rolled out £97 million in support since 2017. We all know that farmers have been working for years with the Department on water quality.”
“I encourage everyone to respond, and I am committed to listening to the concerns of all stakeholders, including farmers and the agriculture industry more broadly, on the proposed measures and the impact that they may have on their businesses. I am also committed to hearing the views of organisations and citizens who are concerned about declining water quality. I reiterate my commitment to moving forward collaboratively and inclusively to make sure that all voices are heard as part of the consultation process. <BR /> <BR />I want to make it clear that the time when one sector, essentially, writes government policy is over. Going for Growth was a mistake. The issue of reducing the nutrient pollution to which Going for Growth helped to contribute is urgent.”
“I note that questions have been raised about the science, and I assure Members that my Department has processes in place to seek independent, expert scientific advice and to commission external peer reviews of any issues that may emerge from the consultation. I mentioned earlier that I will establish a small stakeholder group. That will be an excellent forum in which to address any issues that are raised and to reassure anyone who has concerns about scientific evidence. <BR /> <BR />A programme of stakeholder engagement events and meetings took place last year and in recent weeks. They have been informative and helpful. However, the consultation is the most important way for all stakeholders to be heard.”
“I will continue. <BR /> <BR />The consultation is accompanied by an initial regulatory impact assessment of implementing the proposed measures. It sets out the initial monetised costs and non-monetary benefits of the proposed measures. I can assure the House that, following the NAP consultation, my officials will undertake a full economic impact assessment of the final measures. That will ensure that any decisions on draft proposals are informed by a full and complete understanding of their potential impact. <BR /> <BR />The third issue that I would like to address is the discourse on the science and evidence that have been a significant factor in the development of the NAP proposals.”
“It is about efficient farming and environmental sustainability. It is not — not — about reducing livestock numbers. The consultation is accompanied by an initial regulatory impact —.”
“As Minister, I will not be found wanting in dealing with all forms of pollution in a fair and balanced way. <BR /> <BR />Moving beyond sewage pollution, we cannot ignore the fact that there is validated scientific evidence that agriculture is a major source of the phosphorus that is polluting our water bodies. We must remember that the nutrients action programme is the legal framework for tackling water pollution from agricultural sources, and the narrative around that must not be sidetracked. <BR /> <BR />Next, I will address the concerns that I have heard about the potential impact of the measures on the agriculture sector. Let me be clear: the nutrients action programme is about managing nutrients in a way that reduces water pollution. Its foundation is on a code of good agricultural practice.”
“I have already been very clear in stating that it is important that everyone plays their part in finding a solution. The current situation, where sewage is pumped into our rivers, lakes and loughs, is a complete and utter disgrace and requires tougher regulation and enforcement. I am the first Minister to face up to that challenge and address the unacceptable permission to pollute granted to NI Water on its establishment in 2007. It is not lost on me that my predecessors did not go near the issue. I want Northern Ireland Water to be treated like all other polluters in Northern Ireland. It is wrong that it is given special status in that regard. NI Water and the Department for Infrastructure have until 7 July to come back to me on my proposal to end the bye-ball granted under what is known as "SORPI".”
“Thank you. That will be the last intervention that I will accept because I have lost a significant amount of time as a result of that intervention. <BR /> <BR />I believe in an all-island approach, which why I am engaging with my Irish Government colleagues. <BR /> <BR />In the spirit of openness and transparency, I will ensure that a letter confirming the outcome of last Tuesday's meeting is deposited today in the Assembly Library. There is no doubt that that meeting was frank and challenging, and I would like to address some of the concerns that arose from it in the next few minutes. <BR /> <BR />First, I will address the issue of source apportionment. Much has been said about the source of nutrients, particularly phosphorus, which comes from waste water and sewage.”
“That group will be in addition to the existing stakeholder group and will bring together relevant organisations, such as the UFU and Northern Ireland Environment Link, to consider the consultation responses, the measures that will be taken forward and a time frame for each. That will help us to move forward together on the issue. Hopefully, it will help us to come to an agreed position so that I can take final proposals to the Executive later this year. <BR /> <BR />Since the NAP consultation launched in May, I have listened to feedback and commentary on the proposals. I recognise that there are concerns about the impact that the proposals could have on agri-food and the impact of delay on our environment. Just last week, I met representatives from the UFU and Northern Ireland Environment Link.”
“I take heed of Dame Glenys Stacey's warning that the consequences of failing to address nutrient pollution in the round are grave, including for our drinking water and our agriculture sector. That is why I am committed to continuing with the consultation, and it is important that I reiterate that it is a consultation on revised NAP measures for the next four years. No final decisions have been taken. It would be entirely improper to shut down a consultation and deny people their say, as the motion requests. <BR /> <BR />When the consultation closes on 24 July, all the responses will be considered. To ensure that that is done in an open and inclusive way, I gave a commitment last week that my Department will establish a small stakeholder group.”
“<BR /> <BR />The constant cycle of crisis and collapse of our institutions and a lack of political leadership has also had an impact on the delivery of the NAP and has seen our environment fall short across the board, as evidenced by a number of recent investigations by the Office for Environmental Protection, which is closely monitoring progress with regard to the NAP review. Last Friday, the Office for Environmental Protection published its letter of advice on the NAP proposals. The letter is on the OEP website, and I encourage you to read it. I welcome that advice, which highlights the need to strengthen existing NAP measures to ensure that we meet our environmental obligations.”
“The first nitrates action programme to apply across the whole of Northern Ireland was introduced in 2007. The nitrates action programme established a range of measures and controls on livestock manures and chemical fertilisers, and there is a legal obligation to review it every four years. The current NAP was due to be reviewed in 2022. We have therefore already fallen behind that time frame because it has taken time to make sure that this complex issue is underpinned by science and evidence and the necessary environmental assessments.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is not lost on me that 40% of our drinking water comes from Lough Neagh. Improving water quality is vital not just because of the importance of our waterbodies to local businesses, recreation and tourism but for basic public health reasons and because of the need to ensure a supply of safe, clean drinking water without the taste and odour issues reported in the last two years when algal blooms were at their worst. We must address the crisis before it is too late. Our constituents expect no less, and, if we are to succeed, the status quo is not an option. <BR /> <BR />The vital need to protect our water quality is the reason we have the nutrients action programme (NAP). Simply put, the NAP fulfills a legal requirement to reduce water pollution from agricultural sources. That is not new.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. In considering this debate, I will hopefully give a comprehensive response to the points raised. I will also review Hansard, and, if there are any points that I have not covered in my response, I will seek, where appropriate, to deal with them in writing. <BR /> <BR />We have a crisis with water quality in Northern Ireland. It is not just Lough Neagh: Lough Erne, Belfast lough and many other waterbodies across Northern Ireland are now in a critical state. As an Executive, we stood up and made a promise in the Programme for Government that we would protect Lough Neagh and the environment. If we cannot take difficult decisions to address the crisis in Lough Neagh, frankly, our Programme for Government is not worth the paper it is written on.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. In his comments, Mr Gaston made what I consider to be despicable comments about officials in my Department. I put on record my complete opposition to what he said and my support for them.”
“I wrote to Fleur Anderson in the Northern Ireland Office off the back of that visit, outlining my concerns on the migration rules and the need for further UK Government support for automation, because that is expensive technology that would be an important intervention. I still await a reply to that correspondence. I will continue to engage with the UK Government on the labour force challenges that face the mushroom industry. I would also like to provide reassurance that I am conscious of the need for continued support for the mushroom industry. My Department and I will continue to engage with the industry to ensure that we are able to meet that wherever we can in the scheme of new policy formation.”
“Members are asked to support clause 2. <BR /> <BR />It is important that I address the Member's concerns about the mushroom industry. I am aware that those concerns have been articulated during the passage of the Bill, including in the Committee's scrutiny at Committee Stage. I am acutely aware of the challenges that the mushroom industry faces, especially the labour force challenges that have arisen from the UK Government's decision on migration as a consequence of our leaving the EU. Recently, I welcomed the Northern Ireland Office Minister down to one of the suppliers near Mayobridge. We articulated to her the concerns that exist.”
“Those powers provide for the omission of parts of existing legislation that are necessary, for example, to remove redundant, unworkable or simply unhelpful provisions. <BR /> <BR />Some Members may wonder about taking such powers in advance of completion of policy reviews. However, awaiting the outcome of reviews or other matters that call for changes to policy, and then having to seek those powers, would simply delay the point at which policy changes can be made. Importantly, by virtue of clause 4, the use of those powers would be subject to Assembly approval, which is an appropriate control. Finally, that clause also includes an enabling power to make regulations regarding the review of departmental decisions relating to fruit and veg aid, which is needed as a consequence of amendments to the common market organisation regulation.”
“Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Clause 2 provides the power for the Department to modify the assimilated law governing fruit and vegetable aid. Members will be aware that that legislation has not kept pace with changes elsewhere, including in the EU — changes that seek to support productivity while also contributing to protecting and enhancing our environment and tackling climate change. Those powers will therefore allow for improvements to the scheme in future, including to align with development elsewhere if deemed appropriate. During its scrutiny, the Committee raised concerns that, by virtue of clause 5, such modification could include repeal and revocation. Those powers would provide for repeal of primary legislation and revocation of secondary legislation in whole.”
“I will bring the paper to the Executive, and I look forward to receiving support for it. If we always do what we have always done, we will always get what we always got. We have to strengthen environmental governance. <BR /> <BR />I record my wholehearted thanks to all the officials in the NIEA, the Public Prosecution Service and more broadly for their work. The Northern Ireland Environment Agency does a lot of really good work, and Friday was an important moment for it. I thank it for the work that it does. As Minister, I wholeheartedly value the NIEA, and I am very proud to have it as a part of the Department.”
“Thank you, Gerry, for your kind comments. <BR /> <BR />I thank the groups in the Foyle consistency that have continued to raise and highlight the issue. It is important that we thank them for that. The Mobuoy site is unprecedented in its significance. That is not to say that there are not other smaller sites and fly-tipping occurring in Northern Ireland. How we grade those things by size is an issue, but I am happy to write to you to outline that. <BR /> <BR />There is a wider issue: the need to strengthen environmental governance. I take that seriously, which is why I appointed an independent panel to look at it. It will come forward with an interim report soon. I will not be found wanting. We must strengthen environmental governance — we have to. Northern Ireland is an outlier in this regard.”
“That is a technical question. The Proceeds of Crime action will proceed. That is the next step. It is important that we do that. I am happy to discuss the complexities of it all with you outside of here. The site has a lot of history, and that is what makes it a bit more complex.”
“If we do not move the dial in how we deal with environmental crime and pollution in Northern Ireland, we will continue to see challenges emerge that will cost the public purse, so we need to have a different attitude towards it. I thank officials for the way they have engaged with the PSNI, HMRC and others on this. It is important that we tackle organised crime and that we view waste crime as part of that. We have committed to doing that. As part of our engagement with you as Foyle MLAs, I will have a bit more of a discussion and provide reassurance on what we are doing in that sphere.”
“Thank you, Sinéad. What occurred at the site was appalling. The Mills review was conducted, and its recommendations are being implemented. There is a significant concern about the role of organised crime in waste crime. It is important that we say that. That is why my Department and the Northern Ireland Environment Agency collaborate with partners in the criminal justice sphere and take a coordinated approach. <BR /> <BR />As Minister, I have been very clear that we need to punish environmental crime much more harshly, because it is having an impact on our environment. We are talking about a potential cost to the public purse of £700 million. That is a significant cost.”
“I can assure the Member of that. As Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, my sole focus is on being fair and even-handed with everyone. If people break the rules, they can be assured that my Department will come after them.”
“This should never have occurred, and it is important that we find a way to remediate the site.”
“No problem. That engagement is really important. As part of the consultation, my officials will engage with those organisations. It is really important that their voices be heard, because local communities have real concerns about the site. I will prioritise engagement with you, as representatives for the area, and the mayor and chief executive of the council. I know that Pádraig has also requested engagement with a local group. I will honour my promise to engage with them. I will see what we can do in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />This is an important moment for consultation and engagement. To be fair to the council, it has been very good in engaging with us thus far. It is an important body from which to garner views on a complex and important issue.”
“Thank you for your kind comments, and I appreciate that. I will not be bullied or intimidated by anyone, and I am clear about that. I thank the police for dealing with the issue. <BR /> <BR />I have set out the action at the Mobuoy site. There are other sites where unauthorised dumping has occurred. The Northern Ireland Environment Agency works with district councils to manage those sites. There is a protocol in place between the Northern Ireland Environment Agency and district councils to deal with the wider issue of fly-tipping and dumping. Two councils have still not signed up to the protocol. I have written to ask them to sign up, and it is important that they do so. District councils and the Northern Ireland Environment Agency need to work together, and the other two councils need to sign up.”
“I will look for support around the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />I came to the Chamber earlier this year to remove the cap on penalties for water pollution as a result of cross-compliance. Only Alliance and Gerry voted with us. When people say to me that they want tougher penalties in the time ahead, they will need to support me and vote with me.”
“As I outlined to Andy, we have measures in place in conjunction with NI Water. As part of the engagement, I want to meet you, the other Foyle MLAs, the mayor and chief Executive of Derry City and Strabane District Council, alongside NI Water and DFI, to give assurances about the issue and to talk about the remediation of the site. <BR /> <BR />The first part of your question mentioned tougher sentencing for environmental crime, and that is what l will seek the support of the Chamber to do. Later this month, I will consult on the fisheries Bill to give me additional powers to have heavier fines and penalties for environmental crime, particularly in relation to water pollution. I will also come to the Executive in the autumn to seek support for measures to improve and strengthen environmental governance.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department provides a continuous response officer, who is available on a 24-hour call-out, to respond and coordinate required actions, should an emergency arise.”
“<BR /> <BR />NI Water has also tested procedures to ensure that, if the need arises, it would immediately stop taking water from the River Faughan as an emergency measure. NI Water provides robust treatment to water abstracted from the River Faughan and continually monitors the water from the plant in the distribution system and at customer properties in the area supplied from the Carmoney water treatment works. NI Water has completed planned works to provide additional resilience whereby increased flow from the Ballinrees water treatment works near Coleraine, supported by the Caugh Hill water treatment works near Dungiven, will provide sufficient supply to the north-west for a period.”
“Safeguarding public health and ensuring that there is safe drinking water are paramount. My Department is committed to protecting the water quality of the River Faughan and is working in partnership with NI Water to safeguard drinking water in the north-west. <BR /> <BR />As I outlined in my statement, officials have put in place a comprehensive environmental monitoring programme at the Mobuoy site. The monitoring data is used by my Department and NI Water to continually assess any changes in the risk to water quality in the River Faughan and at the NI Water abstraction point. Water quality reports are regularly published on the DAERA website, and, to date, there has been no adverse impact on the safety of the drinking water being supplied from the River Faughan.”
“Thank you very much, Andy. The protection of drinking water and what we do to manage that is an important consideration for people.”
“I am very keen that we run through the consultation over 16 weeks and bring the responses back. We will then have to consider the way forward. I am getting the communication very clearly that the Mobuoy site should not hold up phase 2 of the A6 project. When it comes to prioritisation, however, we will have to consider where that fits and the costs associated with it. I get the importance of the A6 project to the north-west.”
“As part of the consultation, the Department for Infrastructure will have an opportunity to engage on the remediation of the Mobuoy site. As outlined, phase 2 of the A6 Derry to Dungiven dual carriageway project extends from Drumahoe to the A2 Caw roundabout. Part of the works will encroach on the Mobuoy site. My officials are working closely with DFI Roads colleagues in order to ensure that there is an integrated approach so that the projects are coordinated and can progress efficiently. My officials are continuing to work through the land contamination risk management guidance, and the public consultation is the next step. That will be an important step, and my officials will continue to engage with DFI Roads colleagues as the consultation progresses. The start of the consultation is an important moment.”
“Thank you, Declan. Any profits made from this situation are an issue of significant concern for the general public. As I outlined in my response to Robbie's question, we will move towards proceeds of crime proceedings on the matter.”
“The consultation will outline the options that are in place to deal with the relationship with the A6. I understand that concerns have been raised about that. Essentially, as part of the consultation responses, consideration could be given to prioritising the remediation of the area close to where the A6 is meant to run. It is important that that is considered in the consultation in the time ahead. I understand the concerns around phase 2 of the A6 and its importance for the north-west. That is why we are considering that as part of the consultation.”
“I believe in consultation and in giving people the opportunity to have their say, particularly Derry City and Strabane District Council, which has been quite good in engaging with the process to date. It has technical experts who can make a contribution. I am not ruling anything in or out because that is the purpose of the consultation. The consultation will give people an opportunity to have their say, and there are a number of options in the draft remediation strategy that can be moved much more quickly than others. I will be interested to see people's responses in that regard. I have been to the site and have seen it. What happened there was appalling and disgraceful, and I am glad that the people who are associated with the site were sentenced on Friday.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We continue to sample the water quality in the river, and, as I outlined in my statement, no concerns have been raised to date. However, that does not mean that we should not take action. We must take action on this site, and that is why I am moving very quickly on the consultation. I encourage people to engage with the consultation. I will engage with local reps, my Executive colleagues and, very importantly, the UK Government. We will need financial assistance in order to deal with the site. It is not fair to ask Northern Ireland to deal with the site, which will cost up to £700 million to remediate. The UK Government need to assist us with that.”
“Thank you very much, Robbie. Following sentencing, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency will pursue confiscation proceedings under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 against three defendants with the intention of depriving them of the benefit that is generated by their criminal conduct and of asserting the "polluter pays" principle. The value of any confiscation order that the court may be minded to make will be a decision for the court.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am committed to engagement on the issue. Whilst I will bring my Executive colleagues a paper on the merits of holding an inquiry and of the remediation of the site while giving them an update, it is important that I engage locally. Therefore, I will seek to meet the five Foyle MLAs along with the mayor and the chief executive of the council to talk through the issues regarding the site, in particular its remediation and the way forward. It is important that we look to the past and understand any lessons that are to be learned, but it is also important to look to the future and have remediation of the site.”
“Thank you, Mark, for your question. This was an abhorrent crime on an industrial scale. I was on the record before I took up this job, and I am happy to confirm again today that I believe that there is merit in having a public inquiry. Therefore, I will take a paper to my Executive colleagues on that. <BR /> <BR />You rightly said that the cost to remediate the site is likely to be significant. It could cost up to £700 million. I will be looking to the UK Government not just for financial support for a public inquiry but for the cost to remediate the site. Those are significant costs for those of us who are in the Executive to bear whilst we are continuing to deliver public services in Northern Ireland and doing good work in supporting agriculture and, more broadly, improving our environment.”
“As I said at the beginning of the statement, there is, however, no room for complacency, and I am moving to launch the consultation on a draft remediation strategy to address the risks that the Mobuoy site poses. My officials will require some time, which is likely to be just a few days, to address the logistical details of the launch of the consultation, but I hope to launch it later this week, with engagement events planned for September. <BR /> <BR />Today is an important moment, and I put on record my thanks to all the officials in my Department for the work that they have done over the past number of years. I am happy to take questions, including on consideration of a public inquiry.”
“I am advised that, to date, there has been no adverse impact on the safety of the drinking water that is being supplied from the River Faughan.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am committed to protecting the water quality of the River Faughan and to working in partnership with Northern Ireland Water to safeguard drinking water in the north-west. To that end, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) continues to implement a comprehensive environmental monitoring programme (EMP) at the site. The EMP includes site and riverbank inspections, surface water and groundwater monitoring and daily laboratory testing of water quality at the NI Water drinking water abstraction point. The monitoring data is used by my officials and NI Water to assess continually any changes in risk to the water quality in the River Faughan and the water quality at the Northern Ireland Water abstraction point. Water quality reports are published regularly and are freely available on the DAERA website.”
“It is important to note, however, that the consultation does not guarantee that everything in the draft remediation strategy will be delivered immediately. Nonetheless, it is an important and significant step forward in the process. <BR /> <BR />There is no quick fix, but I am committed to continuing to ensure that appropriate steps are taken to protect water quality and the environment during the processes. Next steps will be subject to a range of factors, including departmental and public spending approvals, meaning a wider role for the Executive and the Assembly in delivering a remediation strategy that recognises the constraints within which we operate. There will be important considerations to be made on the availability of funding and the realistic timescales required to deliver a remediation solution.”
“For that reason, the consultation will run over a period of 16 weeks in order to take account of the July and August holiday periods. Stakeholder engagement meetings will be arranged for early September to maximise the opportunity for all interested parties to attend. Details of the meetings will follow as soon as possible. <BR /> <BR />Following the consultation, my officials will carefully consider the responses received, and an assessment will be undertaken to establish any changes that are required in order to determine a preferred approach. We will then need to evaluate that approach by looking at what is affordable and deliverable and by ensuring that it mitigates environmental risks and safeguards water quality for future generations. The consultation is a very important and significant step.”
“The public consultation will ensure that all stakeholders and interested parties are afforded the opportunity to respond. It also presents an opportunity for stakeholders to provide information that they think that we need to consider in finalising the preferred approach. The consultation process is designed to ensure engagement with all, and I look forward to rolling out a series of engagement events as part of it. I am keen to hear stakeholders' views on any points that they believe should be taken into consideration before a preferred approach is agreed. <BR /> <BR />It is important that the stakeholder engagement be effective, and I will ensure that we provide the best opportunity for people to respond so that we can receive meaningful responses.”
“It is a technical document that proposes taking an integrated remediation approach to how the site could be remediated in order to mitigate the risks highlighted by the evidence, in accordance with the outcomes from the remediation options appraisal process. The strategy sets out a technical proposal, which, following the consultation's conclusion, will require further development in order to take account of consultation responses, affordability and deliverability. That will inform the final remediation strategy. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, there is no agreed preferred option, and the way forward will not be decided until consultation has been completed. I want everyone who has an interest in the draft remediation strategy to respond to the consultation. Consultation is hugely important to me.”