Mr Toby Perkins
MP for Chesterfield · Labour · United Kingdom
“The hon. Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller) is absolutely right to say that what is behind this is the deep unpopularity of President Milei; it is not anything actually that the UK has done.”
“In Chesterfield, there will be unmitigated despair at the statement we have heard today from my right hon. Friend. For the authorities for which she is doing a review—the 14 that thought they had got their decision in July—could she clarify the basis of that review?”
“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate the hon. Member for Waveney Valley (Adrian Ramsay) on securing this debate.”
“The report spells out the link between degradation overseas and the impact here. The assessment lays out the consequences: food insecurity, economic insecurity, increased migration and refugees, increased interstate competition, conflict and geopolitical instability, all of which will threaten us here at home.”
“The Government are right to take their time and make sure that they get this right—we saw what happened when the previous Government did not do the work that was needed. This is a delicately balanced decision.”
“Thirdly, will the Minister consider bringing forward the fourth national adaptation programme? NAP3, published by the previous Government in 2023, was deemed ineffective by the Climate Change Committee. NAP4 is not due until 2028, but can we afford to wait two more years before we have an adequate plan?”
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“At a time when members of the public are calling so desperately for something to happen and we are hearing a Government who are so very much out of touch defending the status quo, I must admit that I was a little heartened to think that when we go to the next election they will have to look the electorate in the eye on the doorsteps, saying, “We were given the chance to do something, but we turned our backs on you and stood up for the big energy companies.” That heartens me very much in electoral terms, despite my disappointment about the impact on my constituents. Opposition Members have raised an army of straw men to explain why they cannot take serious action.”
“I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak in such an important debate, because I believe that today we are discussing an issue that goes to the heart of the cost-of-living crisis that my constituents are living through day in, day out. We need urgent action to address the problem and I am pleased that that is exactly what Labour proposes today. Since the Prime Minister took office, energy bills have risen by almost £300 per family. Of course, we all know that when my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) was Energy Secretary, prices came down. During the debate, I have been saddened but also a little heartened. I am saddened because we have heard from a Government who are making it absolutely clear that they will take no action on one of the key issues facing my constituents.”
“Just like many other Government Members, the more the Minister spoke the less he said. Seven people in the Prime Minister’s constituency benefited from that.”
“These two policies demonstrate to small businesses that it is only Labour that will stand up on their side and cut their costs so that they can reinvest in new jobs and new products. Labour’s policy is good for consumers, good for business and good for the economy. I am proud to say that I will be supporting it and voting for it today.”
“It was interesting that in the Secretary of State’s entire speech, he did not once mention the idea of getting rid of green levies and raising the money from general taxation. That spoke volumes about the extent of the disarray that the Government are in. The issue is not just the impact on consumers. Labour is very much the party of small business. Our policy of an energy price freeze is an example of that. Annual energy bills for small businesses have gone up by an average of £10,000 since 2010. Small businesses will benefit hugely not just from the price freeze, but from a market that works for consumers. In addition, our plan to cut business rates for small business would mean an average saving of nearly £450 for 1.5 million business properties.”
“He has shot the husky and simply told people to pull up their hoodie. He is not standing up on behalf of the people in my constituency. The Prime Minister has not explained how, when he abolishes the green levies, the burden will move to general taxation. Where will the money come from? I do not believe the Government are going to increase taxes. That leaves one of two possibilities. Either it will go on to the deficit, which the Government have so singularly failed to eradicate in the way they promised, or they will reduce the budget for schools, hospitals, roads or other Government Departments. We have had nothing from the Secretary of State or Ministers about how they propose to fund those measures from general taxation.”
“It seems that the Conservatives will do anything to prevent the big six from having to reduce their profits. Instead, the Prime Minister has suddenly turned on the evil of green taxes. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) reflected earlier, green taxes are so evil that he told “The Politics Show” in 2006: “I think green taxes as a whole need to go up”. In 2006 he told “Newsnight” that “we think green taxes should take a bigger share of overall taxes.” So evil were these green taxes that his Government introduced 60% of the green levies currently imposed on energy companies. We all remember when the Prime Minister was the Leader of the Opposition and was attempting to present the modern face of Conservatism. He has certainly travelled a long way from “vote blue, go green”.”
“Thirdly, there would be a measure to abolish Ofgem, which has failed to stand up for consumers, and to replace it from January 2017 with a new energy watchdog with teeth. The 42,000 households in my constituency cannot wait for those proposals to bear fruit. They need action now. They need a Prime Minister who is not strong on the weak and weak on the strong but who is brave enough to stand up to the energy companies and deliver a price freeze. An incoming Labour Government will legislate with immediate effect to make this happen and will put an average of £120 back into the pockets of every household in Chesterfield. Unfortunately, the response of the Prime Minister and the response that we heard from the Secretary of State was once again to stand up for the wrong people and to take the side of vested interest.”
“Only last month, Which? estimated that flaws in the market have left consumers paying £3.9 billion a year over the odds since 2010. We have a duty to our constituents to end this great rip-off. One-nation Labour has a long-term vision to do just that—not simply with the energy price freeze but with a suite of measures that will radically transform the market. There are three steps that will make a significant difference, including, first, separating the parts of the business that generate energy from the parts that sell to consumers. My hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) was excellent, as he always is, on the importance of this, setting out its real value. Secondly, we would introduce a simple new tariff structure and make sure that people over 75 always paid the lowest tariff.”
“Prices are going up because when the wholesale price of energy increases the energy companies pass that on, but when it drops our constituents do not see a fall in their bills. If that sounds familiar to Government Members I would not be surprised, because it is precisely what the Prime Minister said when he was Leader of the Opposition. In Bedford in 2009, when he was still attempting to occupy the centre ground, he said: “I think we all feel that when gas prices or oil prices go up, they rush to pass the costs onto us and yet when we read in the papers that the oil price has collapsed and the gas prices are coming down, we wait for a very long time before we see anything coming through on our bills”. I could not agree more, and it is a shame that the Prime Minister does not say now what he did when he was attempting to be elected.”
“I was reminded of someone who thinks that the way to tackle a bully is not to tell anyone about what they are doing because the bully might get them after school. It was absolutely pitiful, and the hon. Gentleman’s constituents will have heard what he said—I am sure that they will be made aware of it—and they will know that he is someone who absolutely refuses to take their side or stand up to the big six. When we hear Government Members say that we need to put pressure on the big energy companies while at the same time coming up with a host of risible reasons for not taking action, saying that that would be dangerous, we know that the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are not the answer to this problem.”
“Was it six? I got it wrong. The measure is a pitiful failure and to hold it up as an example of a Government success shows how little the Government know and how little they are doing. In the few weeks since the Labour conference the Government have been in complete disarray on one of the central cost of living issues that we face. When I listened to the speech by the hon. Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) I was reminded of someone who thought that if we did anything to these powerful energy companies they might end up hurting us in return. Basically, we should just leave them alone, because if we did not they might up put up prices or not increase wages for his constituents.”
“I very much appreciate what my hon. Friend is saying—she is making a very powerful speech. The problem is not that the Prime Minister does not have the courage to stand up to the energy companies; it is that it is not in his make-up to stand up to the energy companies. It is not what he wants to do; it is not what he came into politics to do. He is not in politics to stop the energy companies making profits and to make consumers better off.”
“T2. The Chancellor was warned that his cuts would choke off the growth that had returned to the UK economy when he took the job in 2010. Of course we welcome the fact that Britain is finally returning to growth, but does he not realise that if he had taken the advice of my right hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) earlier, we would not have had three wasted years, the average working person would not be £1,500 worse off, and the talents and potential of 1 million young people would not have been laid to waste?”
“It is possible that the Secretary of State is right and that the experts whom he believes are wrong are wrong. However, surely in the interests of democratic accountability, a radical change of the sort he proposes should be debated properly in the House and the other place. Why is he so frightened of proper scrutiny of his policies?”
“The Secretary of State has said that his proposals are not about giving probation to big companies, but I bet we will see the big companies getting all the services. The idea that the voluntary sector will pick them up is a mirage. The Secretary of State is involved in a dangerous experiment and has a track record of failure. He should stop listening to the voices in his head that are telling him he is right. Instead, he should listen to the wide body of opinion telling him that he is getting this wrong, and protect our probation services now.”
“The implementation of the integrated offender management programme involves collaboration with the police in working with offenders who are at a high risk of reoffending. That often means burglars, thieves and serial perpetrators of acquisitive crime, but not the people who are considered to be at a high risk of causing harm—the sort of people about whom the entire community breathes a sigh of relief when they are banged up. They are capable of creating a spike or a rut in local crime figures depending whether or not they are inside. Those people—walking crime machines—are the sort who are likely to fall through the net because of the changes being introduced. The changes are dangerous and could create a huge problem.”
“The probation service has a limited budget that has to stretch a long way, but it is performing. Every single service is ranked as good or outstanding. Its success is built on partnership working with local authorities, the police, prisons and other services. Many people are worried about that partnership working. The probation service operates as a seamless whole. As we split the service in two, the services will not have the partnership aspect that is so important to its success. The Women’s Work programme in Derbyshire brings together all women who have been in prison, regardless of their sentence. That is exactly the kind of specialist work that will be under threat when the service is split in two.”
“He was also the man at the heart of defending the operation of the work capability assessments when dead people were found to be fit to work. One would have hoped that, with a track record like that, he would show a little caution before ripping up a service on which so many people depend. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) made a wonderful speech and asked why the time scale was so urgent. However, he missed the point. The Secretary of State is clear that the Conservatives are on their way out and that he has to introduce his proposals before he is out of power, when he will not have the chance. He is rushing through this ideological and dangerous move before he is thrown out of office, as he so thoroughly deserves to be.”
“Friend the Member for Tooting asked, why can we not have the extension of those services—it is already happening in some cases—within the realms of the current successful probation service? If the Secretary of State has confidence that wholesale privatisation is right—it is privatisation not just of probation provision, but of commissioning the services—why did he not let the pilots run their course? Why cancel the pilots and then embark on the policy? If that was because he has an unblemished track record and a Midas touch, Opposition Members might be a little less nervous. However, as my right hon. Friend made clear, the Secretary of State was responsible for the shambolic Work programme, under which people were better off if they were not on it.”
“That the other place had to table an amendment to the Offender Rehabilitation Bill to prevent the Government from making changes to the structure of the probation service until it was debated by this House, and that the Justice Secretary failed to bring that Bill back to us, speaks volumes about his political cowardice and the lack of support that the reforms command. The Secretary of State tells us that we should trust him because he believes his proposals are right. His approach seems to be this: we have a problem—reoffending rates—and we need a policy; this is a policy, therefore it is right. He has not explained in any way why his intention to extend services to offenders sentenced to less than 12 months must coincide with the creation of a load of new companies and a privatisation. As my right hon.”
“We all know that when probation services do good work most people do not find out about it. On the odd occasions when things go wrong, however, the entire world is made aware. When I visited Derbyshire probation service I was blown away by the commitment, imagination and bravery of our probation officers, and that is why they command such respect across both this House and the country. These changes appear to be lacking in evidence base. They fly in the face of all expert opinion and are so dangerously misguided that they are very worrying indeed. The fact that my right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) had to initiate this debate to allow the House to discuss these changes is a matter of shame for the Government.”
“Labour is the party of small business— [ Laughter. ] Conservative Members may laugh, but their party believes that a business that has 300 members of staff is not that large. That shows how out of touch they are. Some 99% of businesses are smaller than that. Under this Government, 1.5 million businesses have seen business rates rise by an average of £2,000. Our plan to shelve the Government’s 1% corporation tax cut in 2015 and direct all that money towards reducing business rates has won support among organisations from the Federation of Small Businesses to the British Retail Consortium. Does the Secretary of State not realise that many businesses are being crippled by business rates? Why does he not just follow our lead and end the business rate nightmare now?”
“T4. My constituent Jemma Hill is 25 and suffers from chronic hip pain, for which a specialist has recommended hip arthroscopy surgery. However, she has now been told that her local clinical commissioning group does not fund such treatment. Does it not make a mockery of GP-led commissioning when a CCG will not fund the treatment recommended by a specialist to whom the GP referred my constituent in the first place?”
“With reference to the point the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath) made about discussing numerous immigration Bills during his time in the House, along with the introduction of the UK Border Agency and the Australian-style points-based system and the huge reduction in the number of asylum seekers coming to this country, does that not make it absolutely clear that claims that the previous Labour Government were totally uninterested in immigration are total nonsense? We can argue about how effective the Acts were, but the fact that the previous Government came back so many times to discuss immigration makes it clear that they were very sensitive to the issue.”
“Brookfield school in Chesterfield recently wrote to all parents to let them know that year 11 pupils whom the school believes might not get a C will not do maths until May or June, whereas previously they would have done it in November. Alongside schools accountability, is the Minister concerned that one impact could be that children on the borderline might not have the same chance that children higher up have, because the children who are higher up have the chance to do it in November and do it again in May if they are not happy with their original result? Is there a danger that schools will change the way in which they operate to the disadvantage of some pupils?”
“I wish to explore how the hon. Gentleman thinks that would work in practice. My son is doing a GCSE in business studies with two different teachers. If one is good and one is bad, how would we work out who got the pay rise and who got the sack?”
“I read today that The Guardian has a reading age of 16 and The Sun has a reading age of 11, and I share the concern of the hon. Member for Gosport that many of the one in six adults to whom she referred will be able to read The Sun but not The Guardian. That could explain a lot. We face a significant challenge and we need to focus on the steps we are going to take to do something about this. We need to realise that social inequality is a key determinant of academic inequality.”
“Gentleman is right to ask about Sure Start’s role in relation to literacy and numeracy, I do not think that it can be taken out of context. The hon. Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher) asked when we will deal with this. When will we see this done? Will this be the Government who really make a difference? I am keen to investigate that question now. The OECD report made it clear that Britain is above average in the achievement of level 3 and level 4 literacy in comparison with our European neighbours—ahead of Germany, the USA, France, Italy and Spain—but we have many more people than our competitors do who fail to reach level 1, which is people who are functionally illiterate. Adults at level 1 have a reading age of 11.”
“Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley)—who, I understand, could be backed at 16/1 with Paddy Power yesterday to win the deputy speakership, but is now at 5/2. While I entirely endorse what he said about the role that libraries could play, the massive level of local authority cuts is causing them to close throughout the country. We cannot say that libraries should be doing more while at the same time ordering authorities to make the cuts that are leading to the closures. I would make a similar point to the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), who referred to Sure Start. There have been huge cuts in Sure Start, 400 of whose centres have closed. It is estimated that a third of its funding has disappeared since the Government came to power. Although I think that the hon.”
“As the OECD report made clear, in many cases there is a higher level of illiteracy among members of specific ethnic groups who come to this country, quite apart from the fact that English might not be their first language. My hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) was passionate about a project in her constituency, and about the excellent work that is being done there. Indeed, throughout the debate we heard about positive projects that are taking place in individual areas. It seems to me that if those projects could be joined up, they would work better as a result. The hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) made a plea for financial education. He too focused on the importance of libraries, as did the hon.”
“Business people have been serving as school governors in Labour-controlled Waltham Forest, and I should like to see more of them reflecting the needs of business in our education establishments. The hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr Evans) made such a brilliant speech that I wrote down four of his observations so that I could reflect on them. He pointed out that the issue of literacy and numeracy had dogged the country for many years, and that successive Governments had wrestled with it. Like other Members, he mentioned libraries. He also referred to the important issue of immigration. Immigration has produced numerous economic and cultural benefits, but there is no point in pretending that it has been a one-way street. It has also posed significant challenges.”
“However, the National Institute of Adult Continuing Education has said that there is a potential role for jobcentres, and I think that the idea could be considered if the culture within them were to change. My hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) made an excellent speech. His passion for Caitlin Moran was clear for all to see, and I am sure that it will gratify her. He reflected, importantly, on the changing face of our economy, and on the fact that our economic and educational needs have, in some respects, become aligned with each other. As our economic needs change, it is vital for our educational needs to change as well. He made another important point about the huge potential for business people to serve as mentors in our schools. The Labour party is considering that proposal in detail.”
“Member for Gosport provided us with an impressive list of statistics relating to the social and economic costs of illiteracy and the extent to which it disadvantages Britain in the global race. She also suggested giving jobcentres a mandatory role in dealing with illiteracy and innumeracy. I believe that, if jobcentres are to play such a role, they will need to change their relationship with the people whom they see as customers. Many people come to see me after visiting jobcentres, and it is clear to me that the current relationship is not likely to enable them to feel positive about jobcentres’ sending them in the direction of literacy.”
“It emphasises that although we in Britain make good use of our highly skilled talent pool, there is a stronger association between higher levels of literacy and good social outcomes here than in most other countries. Although the motion provides some guidance in regard to the aspects that we should be considering, it is somewhat limited, in that it proposes an academic solution to what is largely a social problem. I entirely support its call for literacy and numeracy programmes to be made more accessible to the people who are hardest to reach, and its call for imaginative support for illiterate adults, but, to a degree, it seeks to address the symptoms rather than the causes of the current problem. The hon.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) on securing an excellent debate about an issue on which she has fought and campaigned for some time. Her speech reflected her expertise and passion. I also congratulate the other Members who have contributed to this valuable and serious discussion of an issue that continues to be significant. The warnings issued by the OECD in its report make it clear that Britain faces a considerable challenge in aiming to raise the literacy and numeracy levels of, in particular, the most deprived people in the country. The report is unequivocal in identifying the need for England and Northern Ireland to address social inequalities, especially among the young, as a key reason for the fact that we are falling behind in that regard.”
“We need to rescue Sure Start from the huge cuts it has had, and we need to work with experts to develop the best solution to overcome these stigmas and barriers. I congratulate the hon. Member for Gosport on the excellent debate she has instigated and her contribution to it. She is right that this is a vital issue. A tremendous partnership approach is needed in order to improve it and to ensure we have greater opportunities for all, and to make better use of all of our people so we can start to fulfil the promise of Britain.”
“The answers to the problems are not purely pedagogical, however; they are very much social. When we still live in a society where people can be in work and in poverty and where the cost of child care can mean it still does not pay to be in work and where children can arrive in school at the age of five unable to speak, we should not be entirely surprised that we face this problem. To address it, a one nation Labour Government will ensure that working parents of three and four-year-olds will get 25 hours of free child care a week, paid for by a banking levy worth £800 million a year. We will also legislate for a primary school guarantee that every school is an 8 am to 6 pm school. I agree with what has been said about making better use of our schools.”
“Those who are not achieving the standards of literacy and numeracy that they should by the age of 16 will be given a chance to catch up with a guarantee of further study in those areas until the age of 18. We also need to support Army leavers more. About 39% of Army recruits join with literacy and numeracy skills at level 1. The Army’s extensive apprenticeship programme has already done a fantastic job in improving the literacy and numeracy of many of those people, and one nation Labour would strongly support the Ministry of Defence as a leading Department in tackling that problem. We also need to focus on our prisons. Some 48% of the prison population have a reading age of 11 or lower, so there needs to be a real focus on supporting people in our prison population to ensure they get the skills they need.”
“There have been cuts to local authorities and Sure Start centres, and further education funding has been cut by £260 million. The number of working poor is increasing. Countries at the top of the education table are countries that have a social democratic model of government. We need to learn the lessons from this report. What would our approach be? First, we need to identify those groups in society who are most vulnerable to being illiterate or innumerate and put in place a series of guarantees to ensure they are not simply thrown into the job market and expected to sink or swim without the skills they need in numeracy and literacy. Any step that would see more children educated by unqualified teachers would be retrograde. We need to see steps to support people who are at greatest risk applying to all school leavers.”
“I am tempted to give way, as I am always very keen to hear from my hon. Friend, and his attempt to intervene reminds me that I failed to mention his contribution on the importance of numeracy, particularly in rebalancing the economy. I was surprised and encouraged to hear that he has been annoying his friends on the left. That is not something I have always accused him of, but it is always good to have things revealed in the House. We need to look at what is actually happening. There has recently been a big increase in child poverty. The Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates that 3.1 million children will be living in absolute poverty by 2013. Much of the progress that was made on child poverty between 1997 and 2010 is being eradicated and that is not going to reduce the social inequalities that this report tells us we need to address.”
“That statistic was given earlier today by the Leader of the House. The OECD report said we were third bottom of 24 countries, not third-bottom in the world. I am sure the hon. Gentleman would not want to mislead people. He is out there fighting for British jobs, and he would not want to tell people that the situation is worse than it is.”
“The report makes it absolutely clear that England and Northern Ireland need to address social inequalities, particularly among young adults—that was a key part of its recommendations, which is why I focused strongly on it. Of course I understand that educational inequalities can lead to social inequalities, but this report is saying that social inequalities will lead to educational inequalities.”
“8. What assessment he has made of the potential effect of High Speed 2 on economic growth in a) Chesterfield, b) Derbyshire and c) the east midlands.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. Many of us who recognise that there will be significant economic benefits to the Chesterfield and Derbyshire area, and who support the principle, remain concerned that the current planned route could have very negative impacts on projects such as the Chesterfield canal and the junction 29A enterprise zone. What reassurances can the Minister give to people who do not want the economic benefits of HS2 to undermine other existing economic projects in the region?”
“T6. Returning to the subject of HS2, will the Secretary of State confirm—we have been talking about the importance of integrating the line—that residents in Chesterfield who want to take advantage of the benefits of HS2 will not have to drive down to Toton to do so, but will have a link from Chesterfield railway station?”
“Two years ago, there was a crisis in small business lending. We have just heard from the Secretary of State that in 22 of those 24 months, it has got worse. The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales is the latest to acknowledge that the Government response to the SME funding crisis is totally inadequate, using a British investment bank that funnels existing inadequate schemes through our uncompetitive banking system. Is it not time that the Secretary of State admitted that the Government will never deliver the scale of change needed and threw his weight behind Labour’s plan for a new generation of local banks with local decision making, based on the key features of the German Sparkasse model? Let us get the real change that British small businesses desperately need.”
“Following yesterday’s performance by the Prime Minister—and bearing in mind that when we return in September for three days of the second week we will discuss not any of the issues around lack of growth in our economy, but how our politics is done—can we have any confidence at all that he and this Government will take seriously the real concerns about the way the Conservative party is funded? My right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) made it clear that the Labour party is going to deal with its issues; when are this Government going to deal with their issues around party funding?”
“The Chancellor has told us today that he is going to bring forward infrastructure spending, but of course we have heard it all before. We reflect on a record of complete failure on infrastructure spending, whereby the money he announces does not actually get delivered. Why should we have any more confidence that what we have heard today will be any more successful than what he has brought to us previously from that Dispatch Box?”
“Many people who have seen the appalling scenes in Turkey on their television screens will have been dismayed by the rather meek response from the right hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington) earlier. Will he give us a little bit more of a sense of the outrage that people are feeling around the world and confirm that he is putting real pressure on the Turkish Government to respect the right to peaceful protest?”