Mr Toby Perkins
MP for Chesterfield · Labour · United Kingdom
“The hon. Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller) is absolutely right to say that what is behind this is the deep unpopularity of President Milei; it is not anything actually that the UK has done.”
“In Chesterfield, there will be unmitigated despair at the statement we have heard today from my right hon. Friend. For the authorities for which she is doing a review—the 14 that thought they had got their decision in July—could she clarify the basis of that review?”
“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate the hon. Member for Waveney Valley (Adrian Ramsay) on securing this debate.”
“The report spells out the link between degradation overseas and the impact here. The assessment lays out the consequences: food insecurity, economic insecurity, increased migration and refugees, increased interstate competition, conflict and geopolitical instability, all of which will threaten us here at home.”
“The Government are right to take their time and make sure that they get this right—we saw what happened when the previous Government did not do the work that was needed. This is a delicately balanced decision.”
“Thirdly, will the Minister consider bringing forward the fourth national adaptation programme? NAP3, published by the previous Government in 2023, was deemed ineffective by the Climate Change Committee. NAP4 is not due until 2028, but can we afford to wait two more years before we have an adequate plan?”
The complete record
Every one of 3,898 lines we hold for Mr Toby Perkins, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 77 of 78.
“Just last week, I was able to visit Springwell community school, a school that is being rebuilt in Staveley in Chesterfield, which is quite a deprived area that, at one time, had terrible problems. On 1 November, it expects to receive the keys to its new Building Schools for the Future school and all involved are incredibly excited about the facilities that they have there. I have been around the new facilities and they are not in any way lavish, but they will be taking delivery of a high-quality establishment. What was important to me was that they said that the whole BSF programme enabled them to reassess not just what buildings they wanted, but the whole way they did education. Is that something that my hon. Friend has found? The BSF process was about much more than just getting buildings up.”
“I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s comments because we in Derbyshire are also campaigning for more funding for our schools. He says that north Cornwall did not benefit from Labour’s investment; is he saying that education funding has not increased dramatically in north Cornwall in the past 13 years?”
“Will the Minister confirm that the two appointees will not get any expenses or salary? Will he refer the appointments to the Committee on Standards in Public Life?”
“May I drag the Minister back to his point about the VAT rise being part of a package of measures and about the poorest being protected by the Budget when it is taken in the whole rather than just looking at the VAT rise? Will he remind the House what safeguards there are for pensioners or unemployed people who do not have children? What benefits will they gain that will pay for the extra VAT that they are going to pay?”
“I should like to bring my right hon. Friend back to what he was talking about—unemployment, housing, the impact on people and how the last Labour Government protected people on the ground. Is it not strange that there seems to be no acknowledgment from those on the Government Benches about how many extra people are in work and still have the homes for which they have worked so hard all their lives? There seems to be no acknowledgment from the Conservative party that that issue is worth worrying about. Perhaps that is because they were not the people who lost their jobs or were in danger of losing their homes.”
“Their first reaction to a crisis made in the City is to put social workers, school teachers, special needs assistants and carers on the dole; to tell people to put on a thicker jumper and holiday in this country; to cut the value of the money in people’s pockets and introduce an arbitrary tax that will hit the poorest hardest; and to do nothing—absolutely nothing—to create the jobs that might help the poor to work their way out of poverty.”
“That is why even right-wing analysts such as Fraser Nelson of T he Spectator have been forced to admit that the Office for Budget Responsibility did not demonstrate that measures in the Budget were inevitable, and, as Tory Members have admitted before, that it is an ideological Bill which reflects the warped view of life held by so many Government Members who have never had to struggle for anything in their lives—many of them millionaires the day they were born.”
“When we see that 500,000 fewer people lost their jobs than would have done so if we had followed Tory advice, we know that throughout this country there are people who can walk into work with their heads held high, knowing that when the crisis struck they had a Government who said, “Yes, we care.” The measures that the Labour Government took are working. The predictions that the current shadow Chancellor made in his last Budget were, if anything, pessimistic. The borrowing requirement is down by £8 billion and there was a Government underspend of £5 billion.”
“If there are tough decisions to be taken, and ordinary people and so many good businesses are struggling so badly, why choose to make life even more prosperous for those businesses that are already flourishing and, in some cases, contributing very little to growth?. The previous Labour Government were securing growth to protect hard-pressed people against losing their homes, and when we realise that in this recession about 30,000 fewer people lost their homes than did so in past Tory recessions, we see just how easily the Tories would have cut people adrift.”
“The Tory cuts philosophy was the wrong decision at the wrong time, but even if we accepted that their cuts programme had to go faster and further than they had ever let on during the election, and even if we believed that Labour’s responsible deficit reduction programme for halving the deficit in four years was not enough, we would find that the decisions in the Bill still do not make sense. The Exchequer Secretary argued that the Government had been left without a choice, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) revealed, there were alternatives. The capital gains tax rise was less than half that promised in the Liberal Democrat manifesto, and corporation tax was already at its lowest point for a long time and 5% less than it was in 1996-97.”
“Conservatives have always set out to protect privilege and wealth, as anyone who has ever studied history will know. It is what they have always done, and that is why the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) said: “I have always been concerned that Conservatives first look after their own and have presided over widening inequalities and not a more just society.” That is what he has always said. Once I held out hope for the Liberal Democrats, but hearing them suddenly claim that VAT is a progressive tax, that we need dramatic cuts now and that we should not be too harsh on the bankers, it is as if the recent general election was so painful for them that they cannot bear to remember what they spent a month arguing.”
“The Government got the answer wrong not only by failing to understand the impact on the private sector of the cuts in public sector spending, but on every level with their decisions on taxation and investment. Tory Members have admitted that this is an ideological Budget, rooted in Thatcher’s economic catastrophes. The Budget means that huge global banks will pay less tax, while the very poorest people in our society—benefit recipients and pensioners—will be worse off. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury was unable to provide me with any way in which the Bill will compensate pensioners, the unemployed or those who do not have children for the fact that, under the VAT rise, they will pay hundreds of pounds more a year. To hear the Conservative party propose such measures is no surprise.”
“I know the impact that those measures could have, because if the Government take money out of the pockets of people, particularly the poor and public sector workers, they take it out of the private sector, too. They take it out of the pockets of the shop owner who would have sold a teacher a new television; they take it out of the pocket of the plumber who would have fitted a new bathroom for a social worker who, now, does not have the confidence to make that purchase; and they take it out of the pocket of the double glazing firm that was about to install a new conservatory at a doctor’s house. The idea that the private sector will flourish because of this Bill is ludicrous. The economy is not out of the woods. The Bill stifles growth, it is bad for business and it is bad for those who rely on the public services.”
“So far we have heard a great deal from the Con-Dem Government about the private sector’s role in the recovery, but more revealing has been what we have not heard. We have not heard how the private sector will play a role in reducing the large number of people who claim sickness-related benefits when getting back to work; how cutting manufacturing allowances to fund a corporation tax cut that will help businesses only in January 2013 at the earliest is going to help our manufacturing industries and help us to grow our way out of recession; or how the retail sector will contribute to our growth when the Government’s policies will take money out of customers’ pockets.”
“As an internet-based sports retailer from 2004 to the general election, I relied on customers from all four corners of the country and every aspect of our diverse economy. I sold to businesses and to business people, for sure, but I sold also to schools, school teachers, universities, armed forces teams and individuals, such as doctors, council workers and police officers. The VAT rise in the Bill would have taken 2.5% straight off the bottom line of my business and would inevitably have led to higher prices; it would absolutely have had to. It means not just higher prices for pensioners, the disabled and people on benefits, those who are already likely to be struggling because of cuts to their housing benefits, but a double whammy—less money and higher prices.”
“The hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) was true to his word. His speech was fairly brief, but it could have been a good deal briefer, because he completely failed to understand that the Bill is simply a return to the ideological and illogical Tory mistakes of the past. It reflects a Budget that spoke throughout of the Tory obsession with public sector cuts and the mistaken belief that public sector shrinkage automatically leads to private sector growth. In fact, the Tory belief seems to be that our economy is balanced on a see-saw—that as soon as the public sector goes down the private sector goes up, and vice versa. I speak as someone who for the past five years has run a small business, and who for seven years before that worked in the private sector for one of the fastest-growing companies in the UK.”
“The hon. Lady mentioned the prescience of the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable) and has commented on the size of the debt and how we got into this position. Will she also acknowledge that right up until 2008, before she came to the House, her party was arguing not for less but for more public spending in a raft of areas?”
“Given that the Secretary of State says that the Labour Government failed young people and that his policies are going to be so much better, if youth unemployment goes up, will he resign?”
“I agree 100% with the Minister that parents in deprived communities care just as deeply about their children’s future as do those in other areas, but given that he is saying that the problem is that there are not enough good schools, would it not be better to focus his policy on making poorer schools better rather than creating an educational elite?”
“19. What assessment he has made of the effect on third sector organisations of the reduction in local authority funding announced on 10 June 2010.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for his answer, but is not the reality that, as in Chesterfield, many of our voluntary sector organisations rely on core funding from the local government sector, and that the cuts in the local government sector will inevitably lead to a reduction in that core funding that will fundamentally undermine any possibility that the voluntary sector can play a part in this big society?”
“12. What assessment he has made of the effect on levels of employment of the implementation of the measures proposed in the June 2010 Budget.”
“I thank the Minister for his response, but as the local futures group says, Chesterfield will lose 1,374 public sector jobs—almost 3% of our entire employment base—by 2016. Given that manufacturing allowances are to be cut, which will make it more difficult for us to grow our way out of the economic difficulties, and given the VAT rise, which will make it difficult for the retail sector, is not the reality that, far from this Tory Budget being courageous, the ideology behind it is going to hit people with their jobs?”
“Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that over the course of 13 years the previous Labour Government had a fantastic record of keeping interest rates low and that the last time we had sky-high interest rates was when his party was last in power?”
“The Secretary of State will be aware that of all the important things for small businesses, the most important of all is that people have enough money to buy their products. In that light, what impact does he think the increase in VAT will have, particularly on the retail sector, which relies so much on people having the money to purchase products?”
“In Prime Minister’s questions yesterday, the Prime Minister elected to answer a question by, in his words, trying to boost sales of a book that I understand was published by an organisation part-owned by Lord Ashcroft. Can the Leader of the House assure us that rather than questions to the Prime Minister resulting in all Members of Parliament receiving an e-mail from the publishing firm—almost as though it knew what would happen—they are there to provide enlightenment to members of the public and not for the Prime Minister to make a sales pitch on behalf of Conservative party benefactors?”
“Does my right hon. Friend share my fear that the problem basically is that the Conservative party believes that the only reason people are unemployed is that benefits are too generous, that we do not need job creation projects and that all they need do is to cut benefits and, somehow, unemployment will magic itself away?”
“The right hon. Gentleman mentioned that some programmes were ineffective. One of the programmes that he has cut is the future jobs fund. I tabled a written question about that for his Department, but it was completely unable to tell me how many jobs had been created in my constituency. As the Department obviously does not know whether the future jobs fund was successful or not—it is too early—and as it is unable to provide any evidence that it was not, why does the right hon. Gentleman not just admit that cutting the scheme was a decision made for ideological reasons rather than because it was not working?”
“I am grateful to the Minister, who has raised the important issue of people on incapacity benefit and the large number of people with mental health problems. Given his belief that the solution to those problems lies in the private sector, is he aware of many private sector employers who are rushing to employ people with a history of mental health problems or with a serious history of incapacity problems?”
“Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Liberal Democrats’ comments would have more credibility if they had not spent the six or eight weeks before the general election arguing very accurately and articulately against the very Budget they have just helped to deliver?”
“Was my hon. Friend as surprised as I was that during the Budget debate the hon. Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid) said: “Opposition Members have accused us of being ideological about the matter, but how can we be anything else? They are absolutely right, and there is no shame in it”? —[ Official Report , 24 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 515.] He was clear that it was a Thatcherite Tory Budget that he was proud of. The Liberal Democrats are being used as a sort of human shield to defend a Budget that in other circumstances would have appalled them.”
“My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. Does she share my view that any Budget that is supposed to have us all in it together but leaves the bankers and the super-rich feeling tremendously relieved and the most deprived people in our communities horrified by what they are facing cannot possibly achieve any measure of fairness?”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her response. The Stubbing Road medical centre is a brand-new building in Chesterfield providing doctor services to people who are among the most deprived in Derbyshire. One floor there was also meant to provide dental services, but in the last week we have been told that that might not—indeed, that it will not—go ahead, although the primary care trust is paying the rent on the building and its new suite. Can the hon. Lady assure the people in the Rother ward who have been waiting so long for those services that the guarantee that everyone in Chesterfield will have access to an NHS dentist by March 2011 will remain in place?”
“T2. My right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State referred to the Commonwealth Fund report, which said that Britain’s NHS was the most efficient. Does that not make it clear that after 13 years of a Labour Government, the NHS is not just so much better for patients, but efficient? To say that it is not is an insult to the people who have worked so hard to make it great.”
“My right hon. Friend is right to be furious that the Secretary of State is not attending the debate. The Secretary of State seems to see himself as some sort of Conservative John Prescott. Does my right hon. Friend share my feeling that that fine gentleman would have been proud to stick up for his Department instead of letting it take the majority of the cuts, and would have come here to defend his decision rather than skulking off to the scene of former crimes?”
“The Minister has said a couple of times that councils will have to do more for less. As a member of the best value and efficiency scrutiny panel on Chesterfield borough council for the past seven years, I know just how hard our council and many others worked to produce the efficiencies demanded under Gershon. Can the Minister tell us of any council leaders who have not been trying to give more for less in the last years of the Labour Government?”
“My hon. Friend is highlighting the extent to which the cuts, which would not have been made under a Labour Government because of our commitment to supporting people in their efforts to get work, will be targeted at the most deprived people in our communities. Does he agree that targeting areas in which disadvantaged people are out of work is a particularly cruel measure for this Government to take?”
“The hon. Gentleman says that his constituents suffered under a Labour council for 33 years. If it was so terrible, why did they keep voting for it?”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for referring to some of those areas, many of which are former pit villages. I have played cricket in a lot of them. The hon. Gentleman fails to understand that the areas he is on about are precisely the areas that are going to suffer from the cuts that his Government are making. We are talking about rich, southern shire counties such as Surrey, not his constituency. The hon. Gentleman is arguing for cuts that will greatly affect those mining villages.”
“That will also engage other organisations to work with local government, so we can create a progressive society out of the situation we are in, rather than our having these savage cuts that will disadvantage the most deprived people in our communities.”
“Council leaders know that when they want to provide their services they will be told they have more power, but they will not have the money to deliver the services, and neither will they have the ability to raise the money, because the Secretary of State is informing them that they cannot increase council tax. Therefore, what they will actually have is simply a choice between scrapping services, which will disadvantage the most deprived people in our community, and hiking up charges for a whole raft of services, which will mean fewer people access them. If the Secretary of State genuinely wants to make efficiencies, then let us see a commitment to Total Place, which is the ideal way of supporting partnership working to deliver the changes to communities and of reworking spending to be more efficient.”
“What we have seen, then, is an ideological Budget and an ideological decision that specifically disadvantages the poorest people and reduces the ability of those in the more deprived communities to work their way out of poverty. It is a strategy of diminishing local government and scrapping the measures that would demonstrate the damage being done. Many of the measures the Government are currently taking will, under the cloak of reducing bureaucracy, actually reduce the accountability of local government and other public sector organisations, and reduce the ability of the public to hold those services to account. It is all part of the seizing of power by the Secretary of State under the cloak of localism. These measures will reduce the ability of councils to provide their services.”
“I spent the weekend at the Old Whittington and Brimington galas in Chesterfield. There were numerous examples of great community groups there. In every single case, they were worried about the funding they would receive. How can the Conservative Government possibly create the big society when the voluntary sector, which will be fundamental to it, is going to face such substantial cuts in their funding when these local government cuts go through? What needs to be acknowledged is the vital role that local government plays in our society as the founding stone and bedrock of democracy. As to the funding cuts to area-based grants, they will specifically target the most deprived communities.”
“Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming)—yet the Liberal Democrats were supposed to be the party of local government. Here we are discussing 20% of the total cuts being made this year falling on the local government sector, and the Liberal Democrats are absent—absent without leave. I think it is simply scandalous that a party that prides itself on its contribution to local government should refuse even to engage in the debate. Local government has not had a fair deal. Even in the current climate, local government has taken far more than its fair share of the cuts that have come this year. The cuts coming in future years will undoubtedly fall most substantially on the most deprived people in our communities. Given the limitations of time, I want to focus on one particular area—the impact of the cuts on the voluntary sector.”
“When the hon. Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis) suggested that we were going to get a dose of reality, I was hopeful, but, sadly, those hopes were dashed. It is ironic that on a day when the Secretary of State should have been here answering the charge of betraying local councils, he should instead—like the spectre of Tory cuts past—return to Bradford, where he would no doubt have asked for many other crimes to be taken into account. What we are seeing, of course, is simply the return to the Tory cuts from which local government suffered so badly in the 1980s. One thing that stands out from this whole debate is the fact that the Liberal Democrats have not been involved in it. As far as I am aware, there has been only one contribution from them—from the hon.”
“I welcome the Secretary of State and her Front-Bench team to their positions. Flood defence work was one of the many areas on which the Conservative party when in opposition criticised the Labour Government for not spending more, rather than asking for cuts. Can Ministers please confirm that there will be no cuts to flood defence work, which is so important, particularly given the likely increase in flood risk due to climate change?”
“A lot of environmentalists were deeply disappointed that there were not more green taxes. Is that just another example of how little influence Liberal Democrat policy has had on what was a classic Tory Budget?”
“Does my right hon. Friend agree that the fact that a Liberal Democrat Chief Secretary to the Treasury came to the House to tell us the decision about Sheffield Forgemasters, and that a Liberal Democrat Secretary of State is supporting that decision today, is just another sign of how the Conservative Government are using the Liberal Democrats as a fig leaf, which will shame the leader of the Liberal Democrats in his Sheffield constituency?”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his appointment as the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, but I fear it strangely apposite that at the moment he sits all alone on the Liberal Democrat Benches. If he feels that this is a coalition Budget, will he explain how much worse it would have been for the poorest people without the influence of the Liberal Democrats?”
“Does my hon. Friend share my confusion? Have we not been told for the past six weeks that the Labour Government spent too much money? It appears now that we were cutting all the time. Is she as confused as I am as to the policy of the Government?”