Sir John Whittingdale
MP for Maldon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I strongly welcome the Secretary of State’s confirmation of our continuing support for Ukraine. He has set out the sustained threat from Russia facing not just Ukraine, but this country and the whole of Europe, yet for too many people, it is still business as usual.”
“That is perhaps even more relevant to the second prong of the Government’s proposals, which is about social media. I will come to that point, but before I finish talking about local media, I want to mention that another of the Government’s flagship policies is devolution.”
“The hon. Member is completely right that this issue must be addressed before we proceed. There is also the question of cost, raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wetherby and Easingwold (Sir Alec Shelbrooke). There are people who probably do have access to broadband, if they choose to pay for it, but they cannot afford to do so.”
“I was the Minister responsible for the passage of the Media Act 2024, during the previous Parliament. It is a great delight to see some familiar faces with whom I have worked with in the past on the officials’ Bench.”
“Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart) that young people are turning more and more to social media, but I do not think that this policy is the answer, because it looks to me like a very dangerous extension of Government interference in the freedom of the press and the right to free speech.”
“My right hon. Friend asks a perfectly valid question, and I want to acknowledge that there are concerns. We had a debate in Westminster Hall not that long ago, and a number of my colleagues—particularly from Scotland—turned up to express concern about the fact that the quality of reception via broadband in their constituencies is very poo…”
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“The clause is a crucial enabler for the creation of a modern health and care service with systems that are integrated and responsive to the needs of patients and users. I therefore commend it to the Committee.”
“It is absolutely right that health and care information can flow in a standardised way between different IT systems and across organisational boundaries in the health and adult social care system in England, for the benefit of individuals and their healthcare outcomes. Information standards are vital to enabling that, alongside joint working between everyone involved in the processing of heath and care information. These changes will support the efficient and effective operation of the health and adult social care system by making it easier for people delivering care to access accurate and complete information when they need it, improve clinical decision making and, ultimately, improve clinical outcomes for patients.”
“Schedule 12 makes it clear that information standards published under section 250 of the Health and Social Care Act 2012, as amended by the Health and Care Act 2022, can include standards relating to information technology or IT services that are used or intended to be used in connection with the processing of information. The schedule extends the potential application of information standards to the providers of IT products and services to the health and adult social care sector for England. It also introduces mechanisms for monitoring and enforcing compliance by IT providers with information standards, and allows for the establishment of an accreditation scheme for IT products and services.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her support in general. I hear the concern that she expressed on behalf of the firm that has been in contact with her. We will certainly look into that, and I will be happy to let her have a written response in due course. Mr Paisley, might I beg the Committee’s indulgence to correct the record? I incorrectly credited the hon. Member for Solihull for the private Member’s Bill, but it was in fact my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti). I apologise to him for getting his constituency wrong—”
“The amendments seek to minimise any delay in the transfer of functions to the new commission by enabling the appointment of the chief executive to take place in parallel with the appointments process for non-executive members. The appointment of the interim chief executive will be made on the basis of fair and open competition and in consultation with the Secretary of State. I commend clauses 100 to 103, schedule 13 and Government amendments 44 and 45 to the Committee.”
“As drafted, the Bill provides that the chief executive of the commission will be appointed by the non-executive members once they are in place, in consultation with the Secretary of State. The transition from the commissioner to the new Information Commission cannot take place until the board is properly constituted, with, as a minimum, a chair, another non-executive member and a chief executive in place. That requirement would be likely to cause delay to the transition, as the appointment of the non-executive members by the Secretary of State and the chief executive would need to take place consecutively. Amendment 44 is a minor consequential amendment to paragraph 3(3)(a) of proposed new schedule 12A, making it clear that the interim chief executive is appointed as an executive member.”
“I put on record the Government’s intention to preserve the title of Information Commissioner in respect of the chair, in acknowledgment of the fact that the commissioner’s brand is recognised and valued both domestically and internationally. Other non-executive members will be appointed by the Secretary of State, and the chief executive will be appointed by the non-executive members in consultation with the Secretary of State. Government amendment 45 will allow the chair to appoint the first chief executive on an interim basis and for a term of up to a maximum of 24 months, which will minimise any delay in the transition from the commissioner to the new commission.”
“The commission will be governed by an independent statutory board, which will consist of a chair and other non-executive members, as well as executive members including a chief executive. The new structure formalises aspects of the existing governance arrangements of the Information Commissioner’s Office and brings the ICO in line with how other UK regulators, such as Ofcom and the Financial Conduct Authority, are governed. The chair of the new commission will be appointed by His Majesty by letters patent on the recommendation of the Secretary of State, as is currently the case for the commissioner. Schedule 13 also provides for the current Information Commissioner to transfer to the role of chair of the Information Commission for the remainder of their term.”
“Clause 103 will allow the Secretary of State to make a scheme for the transfer of property, rights and liabilities, including rights and liabilities relating to employment contracts, from the commissioner to the new commission. The scheme may transfer property such as IT equipment or office furniture, or transfer staff currently employed by the commissioner to the commission. The transfer scheme will be designed to ensure continuity and facilitate a seamless transition to the new Information Commission. Schedule 13 will insert a new schedule 12A to the Data Protection Act 2018, which describes the nature, form and governance structure of the new body corporate, the Information Commission.”
“Clause 101 will abolish the office of the Information Commissioner and amend the Data Protection Act 2018 accordingly. To ensure an orderly transfer of functions, the Information Commissioner’s Office will not be abolished until the new body corporate, the Information Commission, is established. Clause 102 provides for all regulatory and other functions of the Information Commissioner to be transferred to the new body corporate, the Information Commission, once it is established. The clause also provides for references to the Information Commissioner in enactments or other documents to be treated as references to the Information Commission, where appropriate, as a result of the transfer of functions to the new Information Commission.”
“We now turn to part 5 of the Bill. Clauses 100 to 103 and schedule 13 will establish a body corporate, the Information Commission, to replace the existing regulator, the Information Commissioner, which is currently structured as a corporation sole. I should make it clear that the clauses will make no changes to the regulator’s role and responsibilities; all the functions that rest with the Information Commissioner will continue to sit with the new Information Commission. Clause 100 will establish a body corporate, the Information Commission, to replace the existing regulator, the Information Commissioner. The commission will be governed by an independent board, with chair and chief executive roles, thereby spreading the responsibilities of the Information Commissioner across a larger number of people.”
“That is why clause 104 transfers those functions to the independent Investigatory Powers Commissioner, which has the necessary expertise, and avoids the conflict of interest that could occur if the functions were transferred to the ICO as regulator. Transparency in police use of biometrics is essential to retaining public trust and will continue through the annual reports of the Forensic Information Databases Service strategy board, the Investigatory Powers Commissioner and the ICO. I commend clause 104 to the Committee.”
“The Bio -metrics Commissioner currently has specific oversight responsibilities just for police use of DNA and fingerprints, while the Information Commissioner’s Office regulates the use of all personal data, including biometrics, by any organisation, including the police. Clause 104 will simplify the framework by removing the overlap, leaving the ICO to provide independent oversight and transferring the casework functions to another existing body. The casework involves extending retention periods in certain circumstances, particularly on national security grounds, and is quasi-judicial in nature.”
“Clause 104 will repeal the role of the Biometrics Commissioner and transfer the casework functions to the Investigatory Powers Commissioner. There is an extensive legal framework to ensure that the police can make effective use of biometrics, for example as part of an investigation to quickly and reliably identify suspects, while maintaining public trust. That includes the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, which sets out detailed rules on DNA and fingerprints, and the Data Protection Act 2018, which provides an overarching framework for the processing of all personal data. The oversight framework is complicated, however, and there are overlapping responsibilities.”
“I am happy to provide the further detail that the hon. Lady has requested. Question put and agreed to. Clause 104 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 105 Oversight of biometrics databases”
“IPCO’s existing work requires it to oversee over 600 public authorities, as well as several powers from different pieces of legislation. That requires a high level of expertise and specialisation to ensure effective oversight. For those reasons, we believe that the proposals in the clause to bring the oversight functions under the responsibility of the Information Commissioner’s Office will not result in any reduction in oversight, but will result in the removal of duplication and greater clarity. On that basis, I am afraid that I am unable to accept the amendment, and I hope that the hon. Lady will consider withdrawing it.”
“I will simply point out that the responsibility for oversight, which the ICO will continue to have, is not changed in any way by the Bill. The Information Commissioner’s Office continues to regulate all organisations’ use of surveillance cameras, and it has issued its own video surveillance guidance. New clause 17 would transfer the functions of the commissioner to the Investigatory Powers Commissioner. As I have already said, we believe that that would simply continue to result in oversight resting in two different places, and that is an unnecessary duplication. The Investigatory Powers Commissioner’s Office oversees activities that are substantially more intrusive than those relating to overt surveillance cameras.”
“Lady went on to talk about the oversight going beyond that of the Information Commissioner, but I point out that there is a comprehensive legal framework outside the surveillance camera code. That includes not only data protection, but equality and human rights law, to which the code cross-refers. The ICO and the Equality and Human Rights Commission will continue to regulate such activities. There are other oversight bodies for policing, including the Independent Office for Police Conduct and His Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, as well as the College of Policing, which provide national guidance and training. The hon. Lady also specifically mentioned the remarks of the Surveillance Camera Commissioner about Chinese surveillance cameras.”
“The ICO will continue to provide independent regulation of the use of surveillance camera systems by all organisations. Indeed, the chair of the National Police Data Board, who gave evidence to the Committee, said that that will significantly simplify matters and will not reduce the level of oversight and scrutiny placed upon the police. Amendment 123, proposed by the hon. Member for Glasgow North West, would retain the role of the Surveillance Camera Commissioner and the surveillance camera code. In our view, that would simply continue the complexity and duplication with the ICO’s responsibilities. Feedback that we received from our consultation showed broad support for simplifying the oversight framework, with consultees agreeing that the roles and responsibilities, in particular in relation to new technologies, were unclear. The hon.”
“The ICO regulates the processing of all personal data by all UK organisations under the Data Protection Act; that includes surveillance camera systems operated by the police and local authorities, and the ICO has issued its own video surveillance guidance. That duplication is confusing for both the operators and the public and it has resulted in multiple and sometimes inconsistent guidance documents covering similar areas. The growing reliance on surveillance from different sectors in criminal investigations, such as footage from Ring doorbells, means that it is increasingly important for all users of surveillance systems to have clear and consistent guidance. Consolidating guidance and oversight will make it easier for the police, local authorities and the public to understand.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Members for Glasgow North West and for Barnsley East for the points they have made. The hon. Member for Glasgow North West, in moving the amendment, was right to say that the clause as drafted abolishes the role of the Surveillance Camera Commissioner and the surveillance camera code that the commissioner promotes compliance with. The commissioner and the code, however, are concerned only with police and local authority use in England and Wales. Effective, independent oversight of the use of surveillance camera systems is critical to public trust. There is a comprehensive legal framework for the use of such systems, but the oversight framework is complex and confusing.”
“Therefore, we do see a distinction between the use of biometric information for identification purposes and the more general classification which the hon. Lady sought to draw. Though we believe that there is sufficient safeguard already in place regarding possible use of classification by biometric data, given what I have said, I hope that she will consider withdrawing the amendment.”
“For example, biometric identification could include matching facial images caught on closed circuit television to a centrally held database of known offenders. Furthermore, using biometric data for classification or categorisation purposes is still subject to the general data protection principles in the UK GDPR. That includes ensuring that there is a lawful ground for the processing, that the processing is necessary and proportionate, and is fair and transparent to the individuals concerned. If algorithms are used to categorise and make significant decisions about people based on their biometric characteristics, including in an employment context, they will have the right to be given information about the decision, and to obtain human intervention, as a result of the measures we previously debated in clause 11.”
“The aim seems to be to ensure that enhanced protections afforded by GDPR to biometric data used for unique identification purposes also apply to biometric data that is used for classification or categorisation purposes. The hon. Lady referred to the Ada Lovelace Institute’s comments on these provisions, and its 2022 “Countermeasures” report issued on biometric technologies, but we are not convinced that such a change is necessary. One example in the report was using algorithms to make judgments that prospective employees are bored or not paying attention, based on their facial expressions or tone of voice. Using biometric data to draw inferences about people, using algorithms or otherwise, is not as invasive as using biometric data uniquely to identify someone.”
“Even if one were developed in the future, it is likely to need knowledge, skills and resources very different from what is needed to oversee a database that identifies and eliminates suspects based on biometric identification, so it would probably make sense for a different body to carry out any oversight. New clause 8 aims to make changes in a similar way to amendment 119 in relation to the definition of biometric data for the purposes of article 9 of the GDPR. As the GDPR is not concerned with the police’s use of biometric data for law enforcement purposes, the new clause would apply to organisations that are processing biometric data for general purposes.”
“Clause 106 makes changes to the national DNA database strategy board, which provides oversight of the operation of the national DNA database, including setting policies for access and use by the police. Amendment 119 would seem to extend the power to widen the board’s potential scope beyond biometrics databases for the purpose of identification, to include the purpose of classification. The police can process data only for policing purposes. It is not clear what policing purpose there would be in being able to classify, for example, emotions or gender, even assuming it was proven to be scientifically robust, or what sort of data would be on such a database.”
“For these reasons, I commend the clause to the Committee.”
“Clause 106 also updates the name of the board to the Forensic Information Databases Strategy Board, to better reflect the broadened scope of its work. We are also taking this opportunity to simplify and future-proof oversight of national police biometric databases. While DNA and fingerprints are well established, biometrics is an area of rapid technological development, including for example the growing use of iris, face and voice recognition. Given the pace of technological change in this area and the benefits of consistent oversight, Clause 106 also includes a power for the Secretary of State to make regulations which make changes to the board’s scope, for example by adding new biometric databases into the board’s remit or to remove them, where a database is no longer used. Such regulations would be subject to the affirmative procedure.”
“DNA and fingerprints are key tools in helping the police to identify and eliminate suspects quickly and accurately by comparing evidence left at crime scenes with the appropriate files on the national databases. As I previously set out, clause 106 makes changes to the National DNA Database Strategy Board. The board provides oversight of the operation of the database, including setting policies for access and use by the police. These reforms change the scope of the board to make it clear that they should provide similar oversight of the police fingerprint database, which operates under similar rules. The change brings the legislation up to date with the board’s recently published governance rules.”
“I would add only that this is an area where technology is moving very fast, as I referred to earlier. We think it is right to put in place this provision, to allow an extension if it becomes necessary—though I do not think we have any current plans. It is future-proofing of the Bill. Question put and agreed to. Clause 106 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 107 Regulations Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.”
“For example, provision might be required to clarify that the Information Commissioner’s new power to refuse to act on complaints will not apply where such complaints have already been made prior to commencement of the relevant provision. Clause 114 outlines the short title of the Bill. That provision is needed to confirm the title once the Bill has been enacted. I commend clauses 107 to 114 to the Committee.”
“Much of the Bill, including everything on data protection, is reserved policy. In areas where the Bill legislates on devolved matters, we are working with the devolved Administrations to secure legislative consent motions. Clause 112 gives the Secretary of State a regulation-making power to bring the Bill’s provisions into force. Some provisions, listed in subsection (2), come into force on the date of Royal Assent. Other provisions, listed in subsection (3), come into force two months after Royal Assent. Such provision is needed to outline when the Bill’s provisions will come into force. Clause 113 gives the Secretary of State a regulation-making power to make transitional, transitory or saving provisions that may be needed in connection with any of the Bill’s provisions coming into force.”
“For example, powers in part 3 of the Bill replace an existing statutory framework with a new, enhanced one. Clause 109 explains the meaning of references to “the 2018 Act” and “the UK GDPR” in the Bill. Such provision is needed to explain the meaning of those two references. Clause 110 authorises expenditure arising from the Bill. That provision is needed to confirm that Parliament will fund any expenditure incurred under the Bill by the Secretary of State, the Treasury or a Government Department. It requires a money resolution and a Ways and Means resolution, both of which were passed in the House of Commons on 17 April. Clause 111 outlines the territorial extent of the Bill. Specifically, the clause states that the Bill extends to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, with some exceptions.”
“For example, references to “the Commissioner” in the Data Protection Act 2018 will no longer be accurate, given changes to the governance structure of the Information Commissioner’s Office within the Bill, so consequential amendments will be required to that Act. Clause 108 outlines the form and procedure for making regulations under the powers in the Bill: they are to be made by statutory instrument. Where regulations in the Bill are subject to the affirmative resolution procedure, they may not be made unless a draft of the statutory instrument has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House. That provision is needed because the Bill introduces new regulation-making powers, which are necessary to support the Bill’s policy objectives.”
“Clause 107 will give the Secretary of State a regulation-making power to make consequential amendments to other legislation. The power enables amendments to this Bill itself where such amendments are consequential to the abolition of the Information Commissioner and his replacement by the new Information Commission. Such provision is needed because there are a number of areas where data protection legislation will need to be updated as a consequence of the Bill. This is a standard power, commonly included in Bills to ensure that wider legislation is updated where necessary as a result of new legislation.”
“We have previously debated the efficacy of the affirmative resolution procedure. I recognise that the hon. Lady is not convinced about how effective it is in terms of parliamentary scrutiny; we will beg to differ on that point. Although the power in clause 107 allows the Secretary of State to amend Acts of Parliament, I can confirm that that is just to ensure the legal clarity of the text. Without that power, data protection legislation would be harder to interpret, thereby reducing people’s understanding of the legislation and their ability to rely on the law. Question put and agreed to. Clause 107 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 108 Regulations”
“It is evolving alongside policy thinking and Government understanding of the complexities, scope and risks around its use. We believe that enshrining the standard into law at this point of maturity could hinder the ability to ensure that it remains relevant in a rapidly developing technology field. Therefore, although the Government sympathise with the intention behind the new clause, we believe it is best to continue with the current roll-out across the public sector. We remain committed to advancing algorithmic transparency, but we do not intend to take forward legislative change at this time. For that reason, I am unable to accept the new clause as proposed by the Opposition.”
“The standard has been endorsed by the Government’s Data Standards Authority, which recommends the standards, guidance and other resources that Government Departments should follow when working on data projects. Publishing the standard fulfils commitments made in both the national data strategy 2020 and the national artificial intelligence strategy. Since its publication, the standard has been piloted with a variety of public sector organisations across the UK, and the published records can be openly accessed via gov.uk. It is currently being rolled out more widely across the public sector. Although the Government have made it a priority to advance work on algorithmic transparency, the algorithmic transparency recording standard is still a maturing standard that is being progressively promoted and adopted.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Barnsley East for moving new clause 9. We completely share her wish to ensure that Government and public authorities provide transparency in the way they use algorithmic tools that process personal data, especially when they are used to make decisions affecting members of the public. The Government have made it our priority to ensure that transparency is being provided through the publication of the algorithmic transparency recording standard. That has been developed to assist public sector organisations in documenting and communicating their use of algorithms in decision making that impacts members of the public. The focus of the standard is to provide explanations of the decisions taken using automated processing of data by an algorithmic system, rather than all data processing.”
“In the event of a successful claim, each individual affected by the alleged breach could be eligible for a very small payout, but the consequences for the businesses could be hugely damaging, particularly in cases that involved little tangible harm to individuals. Some organisations could be forced out of business or prompted to increase prices to recoup costs. The increase in litigation costs could also increase insurance premiums. A hardening in the insurance market could affect all data controllers, including those with a good record of compliance. For those reasons, we do not believe that it is right to extend the requirement on the Secretary of State to allow individuals to bring actions without the consent of those affected. On that basis, I ask the hon. Lady to withdraw the motion.”
“Although the Government’s report acknowledged that some groups in society might find it difficult to complain to the ICO or bring legal proceedings of their own accord, it pointed out that the regulator can and does investigate complaints raised by civil society groups even when they are not made on behalf of named individuals. Big Brother Watch’s recent complaints about the use of live facial recognition technology in certain shops in the south of England is an example of that. Secondly, the response concluded that giving non-profit organisations the right to bring compensation claims against data controllers on behalf of individuals who had not authorised them to do so could prompt the growth of US-style lawsuits on behalf of thousands or even millions of customers at a time.”
“In effect, the amendment would replace the current discretionary powers in section 190 of the Data Protection Act with a duty for the Secretary of State to legislate to bring those provisions into force soon after the Bill has received Royal Assent. Such an amendment would be undesirable for a number of reasons. First, as required under section 189 of the Data Protection Act, we have already consulted and reported to Parliament on proposals of that nature, and we concluded that there was not a strong enough case for introducing new legislation.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Lady for setting out the purposes of the new clause. As she has described, it aims to require the Secretary of State to use regulation-making powers under section 190 of the Data Protection Act to implement article 80(2) of the UK GDPR. It would enable non-profit organisations with an expertise in data protection law to make complaints to the Information Commissioner and/or take legal action against data controllers without the specific authorisation of the individuals who have been affected by data breaches. Relevant non-profit organisations can already take such actions on behalf of individuals who have specifically authorised them to do so under provisions in article 80(1) of the UK GDPR.”
“Adding a definition of PETs to the legislation and requiring the Government to publish a report six months after Royal Assent is unlikely to have many advantages over the approach that the ICO, the CDEI and others are taking to develop a better understanding in the area. Furthermore, many PETs are still in the very early stages of their deployment and use, and have not been widely adopted across the UK or globally. A statutory definition could quickly become outdated. Publishing a comprehensive report on the potential impacts of PETs, which advocated the use of one technology or another, could even distort a developing market, and lead to unintended negative impacts on the development of what are promising technologies. For that reason, I ask the hon. Lady to withdraw the new clause.”
“In addition, the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation has published an adoption guide to aid decision making around the use of PETs in data-driven projects. It has also successfully completed delivery of UK-US prize challenges to drive innovation in PETs that reinforce democratic values. Indeed, I was delighted to meet some of the participants in those prize challenges at the Royal Society yesterday and hear a little more about some of their remarkable innovations. As the hon. Lady mentioned, the Royal Society has published reports on how PETs can maximise the benefit and reduce the harms associated with data use.”
“We absolutely agree with the Opposition about the importance of privacy enhancing technologies, which I will call PETs, since I spoke on them recently and was told that was the best abbreviation—it is certainly easier. We wish to see their use by organisations to help ensure compliance with data protection principles and we seek to encourage that. As part of our work under the national data strategy, we are already exploring the macro-impacts of PETs and how they can unlock data across the economy. The ICO has recently published its draft guidance on anonymisation, pseudonymisation and PETs, which explains the benefits and different types of PETs currently available, as well as how they can help organisations comply with data protection law.”
“It would be open to the regulator to request to see these documents if members of the public expressed concern about the use of the technology. I hope my response has helped to address the issues the hon. Lady was concerned about, and I would respectfully ask her to not to press these new clauses.”
“If every organisation that launched a new product had to register with the Information Commissioner to explain its intentions and complete annual reports, that could place significant and unnecessary new burdens on businesses and undermine the aims of the Bill. Where the use of biometric data is more intrusive, perhaps involving surveillance technology to identify specific individuals, the processing will already be subject to the heightened safeguards in article 9 of the UK GDPR. The processing would need to be necessary and proportionate on the grounds of substantial public interest. The Bill will also require organisations to designate a senior responsible individual to manage privacy risks, act as a contact point for the regulator, undertake risk assessments and keep records in relation to high-risk processing activities.”
“I appreciate that the new clauses aim to make sure that organisations will give careful thought to the necessity and proportionality of their processing activities, and to improve regulatory oversight, but they could have significant unintended consequences. As the hon. Lady will be aware, there are many everyday uses of biometrics data, such as using a thumbprint to access a phone, laptop or other connected device. Such services would always ask for the user’s explicit consent and make alternatives such as passwords available to customers who would prefer not to part with their biometric data.”
“New clauses 14 and 15 would require non-law enforcement bodies that process biometric data about individuals to register with the Information Commissioner before the processing begins. Where the processing started prior to passage of the Bill, the organisation would need to register within six months of commencement. As part of the registration process, the organisation would have to explain the intended effect of the processing and provide annual updates to the Information Commissioner’s Office on current and future processing activities. Organisations that fail to comply with these requirements would be subject to an unlimited fine.”