Sir John Whittingdale
MP for Maldon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I strongly welcome the Secretary of State’s confirmation of our continuing support for Ukraine. He has set out the sustained threat from Russia facing not just Ukraine, but this country and the whole of Europe, yet for too many people, it is still business as usual.”
“That is perhaps even more relevant to the second prong of the Government’s proposals, which is about social media. I will come to that point, but before I finish talking about local media, I want to mention that another of the Government’s flagship policies is devolution.”
“The hon. Member is completely right that this issue must be addressed before we proceed. There is also the question of cost, raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wetherby and Easingwold (Sir Alec Shelbrooke). There are people who probably do have access to broadband, if they choose to pay for it, but they cannot afford to do so.”
“I was the Minister responsible for the passage of the Media Act 2024, during the previous Parliament. It is a great delight to see some familiar faces with whom I have worked with in the past on the officials’ Bench.”
“Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart) that young people are turning more and more to social media, but I do not think that this policy is the answer, because it looks to me like a very dangerous extension of Government interference in the freedom of the press and the right to free speech.”
“My right hon. Friend asks a perfectly valid question, and I want to acknowledge that there are concerns. We had a debate in Westminster Hall not that long ago, and a number of my colleagues—particularly from Scotland—turned up to express concern about the fact that the quality of reception via broadband in their constituencies is very poo…”
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“Indeed, Barack Obama, US President at the time, when asked about the invasion of Crimea, condemned it but said: “Russia is a regional power that is threatening some of its immediate neighbours…Russia’s actions are a problem. They don’t pose the number one national security to the United States.” If ever there was an invitation to Putin to carry on, that was it. Actually, we know—this comes out in the documentary —that the description of Russia as a “regional power” infuriated Putin because he wanted to restore what the Soviet Union had been: the second major player in global power. That has always been part of his strategy. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) asked if these matters had been debated. I had a debate in 2014, just after the Crimean invasion, drawing attention to the threat.”
“It is called “Putin, Russia and the West.” I was able to see a preview of the first episode and strongly recommend it. She looks at the 2013 eastern partnership summit when Yanukovych went to Vilnius to sign the agreement that would have led to Ukraine’s membership of the European Union. Just before he signed, he got a call from the Kremlin, was told he was not allowed to sign and he did not. That sparked what became known as the Revolution of Dignity at the Maidan and led to 100 people being shot down by snipers from hotel roofs. Shortly after that, Putin took advantage and Crimea was invaded. Again, we did not do nearly enough.”
“Putin is a final successor in that long line and the warning signs were there early on. Putin was originally thought to be a manager who would restore stability after the rather chaotic Yeltsin times and would not interfere too much with the oligarchs. That did not last long. We know he called the oligarchs in and made it clear to them who was now in charge. We first saw the signs in 2006 with the murder on British soil of Alexander Litvinenko. If anybody wants reminding of that, there is a very good ITV dramatisation with David Tennant available now. We saw it again with the war in Georgia in 2008, when the west stood by and did very little. An exceptionally good documentary by Norma Percy, a superb documentary maker, is about to be screened on the BBC.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) on securing this debate for a second time. Looking at what was said a year ago, I think there was some foresight then and, if greater attention had been paid at that time, we might not be in such a bad state today. I do, however, want to differ slightly from the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord), who said it was not just Putin—it was the whole of the Russian people. We should not demonise the Russian people. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) said in his very good speech, the Russian people have suffered terribly under the Tsars, the Bolsheviks, the Nazi invasion, communism and now under Putin. They have never known democracy and freedom. That is the tragedy that they face.”
“My hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) was right to draw attention to the power of the media in exposing what is going on in Iran, but my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will be aware of the continuing threats against journalists working for Iran International, whose headquarters in Chiswick is under permanent armed police guard. Will he make it clear to the Iranian regime that threats of that kind on British soil are utterly unacceptable? Will he consider extending the sanctions against anyone in the Iranian regime responsible for making threats against journalists?”
“While I agree with my hon. Friend that support cannot continue indefinitely, I welcome his recognition that high energy users will continue to require special help. Will that support cover agricultural businesses that are high energy users such as Dengie Crops in my constituency, which uses gas to dry crops to produce animal feed?”
“Two months ago, I visited the Hope hostel in Kigali. Not only was the accommodation of a high standard, but the Rwandans I spoke to expressed hope that those coming would, in due course, obtain jobs and move out to their own homes, thus allowing more refugees to come and take their place. Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that this policy is not just lawful, but humane in that it offers refugees real hope?”
“T9. I welcome the fact that air defence equipment is already being supplied to Ukraine, but does my right hon. Friend agree that Ukraine also needs to strengthen its air force, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) suggested? Will he consider extending the security agreement with Sweden to allow it to supply its Gripen aircraft to Ukraine and to train Ukrainians in its use?”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the power of local media in getting vital health messages across, but will he look at ensuring that, as well as local print media, local online-only publishers such as Nub News are included in future campaigns?”
“That has put pressure on the BBC, but local radio is a tiny proportion of its expenditure, and the BBC tells us that it is not cutting the amount of money it spends but is redirecting it, so £19 million has been taken away from radio and put into online news. I spoke to Rhodri Talfan Davies, the BBC’s director of nations, about why the BBC made that decision, and he told me it was because people no longer listen to the radio to get their news and because people, particularly young people, are increasingly going online, and the BBC somehow has a duty to follow them. I think that is profoundly mistaken for two reasons. First, there is still a significant audience for radio, particularly among the elderly population, who often cannot get out. They rely on the radio.”
“BBC local radio does both. The requirement to be distinctive is something BBC local radio meets better than a lot of the rest of the BBC. Nobody else does what BBC local radio does. There are plenty of very good local radio stations—I have Heart Essex, Radio Essex and community stations such as Caroline Community Radio in my constituency—but they are predominantly music-based. They do not pretend to provide the kind of very localised talk-based content that only BBC local radio provides. I accept that this year’s licence fee settlement is difficult for the BBC, but £159 represents a lot of money for households, particularly with the rising cost of living, so it was the right decision to freeze the licence fee.”
“The station’s presenters, including Dave Monk, Sadie Nine and Sonia Watson, are familiar friends to many of my constituents. People share their living room with them, and their news reports are trusted. That was particularly the case during the covid pandemic, when all the surveys showed that people relied on and trusted information from local media more than information from almost any other source. But it is not just about news. BBC local radio does a tremendous amount of community events to support voluntary organisations. Just a few weeks ago, I presented a Make a Difference award to one of my constituents in Essex who had been recognised by BBC Essex for her remarkable, life-saving bravery. The BBC’s mission is to be distinctive, and one of its public purposes is to serve the diverse communities of all the UK’s nations and regions.”
“I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) on obtaining this debate. It is also a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). I do not often agree with what he says but, apart from a couple of sentences, I agreed with practically every word. The BBC spends something like £4.1 billion each year on public service content, of which £477 million—just over 10%—is spent on radio. A quarter of that, or around 3% of the BBC’s total spend, is spent on local radio, yet what BBC local radio provides is hugely valued by a very large number of listeners. It is an essential and widely trusted local information service. I have listened to and appeared on BBC Essex over many years.”
“So, if the BBC wants to put more money into local news provision, it should do it by increasing its support for the Local Democracy Reporting Service, which works with local newspapers, rather than by increasing the amount of money it spends competing with local newspapers. It is not for us here or for the Government to tell the BBC how to spend its money, but the message that will go out this afternoon is that the BBC has got this wrong and it needs to think again.”
“I hope it will also look at the operating licences for BBC local radio and, if necessary, strengthen them to make sure that they continue to provide genuine local content, not local content across eight counties. If the BBC wants to support local news provision, there is an easy way in which it can do so. When I was Secretary of State, I played a small part in the creation of the Local Democracy Reporting Service, where the BBC pays for local journalists who are employed by local news providers to collect and distribute local news content across all the local news providers. That scheme has been a huge success. It is welcomed right across all the local newspapers. The BBC acknowledges that it is a great success.”
“The latest Ofcom survey showed that, when people want to go online to access news content, 62% go to the BBC website, 34% go to Google and 10% go to any local newspaper site. So already local commercial providers feel that the BBC is a threat and that is why Frances Cairncross said in her report that the BBC needs “to think more carefully about how its news provision can act as a complement to, rather than a substitute for” private news provision. Yet this, the area where the BBC is going to invest more, is bound to have an even greater competitive impact on commercial news providers. So I hope that Ofcom, which has a duty to look at the impact of the BBC’s activities, will examine that.”
“This will result in a significant reduction in the amount of local content, at times when people want still to be able to access that. Secondly, instead of providing for local radio, the BBC is going to increase its spend on local online news content, yet that area is already well supplied. Local news publishers more and more are providing online content. Existing print-based newspapers have websites and there are now many online-only publishers, such as Nub News, which I referred to in the questions this morning. They are operating in a challenging and competitive environment, and are under tremendous economic pressure. They already see the BBC, which provides content for nothing, as a major competitor.”
“I agree. Many of our elderly constituents rely on radio and are less familiar with online. They will not necessarily go on to the BBC News website or a commercial website. They enjoy the fact they can listen to local news content from people they know well. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead and the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington have both said, this is now going to stop for a lot of the country at 2 pm. We are lucky in Essex, as it is going to continue until 6 pm on weekdays, but after that we will become part of a regional network, with a show that covers Essex, Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, Norfolk, Northamptonshire and Three Counties Radio, which means another three counties, as it says on the tin. So that makes eight counties. Eight counties is not local radio.”
“The situation next year is likely to be even more serious, because unless the Government give farmers some confidence, who will invest in a turkey flock for Christmas production when they could lose the entire thing due to an outbreak of disease and have no compensation payable? We have just emerged from the covid crisis; this is the equivalent of the covid crisis for birds. Biosecurity is important to stop its spread, but ultimately will not be successful. Vaccination is probably the key, and in the meantime the Government need to step in to support the businesses affected. Those things happened under covid. They now need to happen again if we are to have a viable poultry industry in this country.”
“We saw what could be done during the covid epidemic. We need to identify an effective vaccine, and we need to talk to our international partners to ensure that trade restrictions are lifted. This disease is affecting every country, and the answer is likely to be the same in every country. It is notable that the head of virology at the APHA, who previously was not in favour of vaccines, is now saying that we have to establish an effective vaccine rapidly. We are in the run-up to Christmas—a time when millions of families will want to eat turkey or goose. This year, we are already seeing dramatic shortages of turkeys, and geese are almost impossible to find.”
“It was likely therefore to get compensation for the 150 remaining. That is the situation facing poultry farmers right across the country. The answer is that compensation needs to be payable from the moment of the identification of the disease or notification. The change that has taken place is welcome, but it will not make a great deal of difference: 48 hours post confirmation is simply not enough. We need compensation to be paid on the same basis as it is paid for four-legged species. I understand that that requires an amendment to the law, but it is absolutely essential if we are to preserve the poultry industry in this country. In the longer term, the answer is likely to be vaccination. At the moment, there is not an effective vaccination, but we need to work on that as rapidly as possible.”
“Under the Animal Health Act 1981, compensation is payable following culling, but it was passed at a time when there was a relatively low pathogenic strain that did not kill all the birds in a very short time. That has now changed: birds die extremely rapidly, which means that smaller producers can lose almost their entire flock without being eligible for compensation. In my constituency, I have KellyBronze Turkeys—arguably the finest turkey producer in the country, as vouched for by Jamie Oliver, Nigella Lawson and so on. In one flock, it had 10,000 birds. It identified the disease on a Thursday evening, informed the Animal and Plant Health Agency, which said that it would send vets round, but by the time the vets arrived on Monday morning 9,850 of the 10,000 birds were dead.”
“Those businesses need to be more visible to regulators. We have to accept that, although biosecurity is tremendously important, it will not stop the spread of this disease. The Government have instituted a policy of culling, which has already led to the death of thousands, if not millions, of birds. In the case of the very biggest producers, the entire flock in a shed will be culled if the disease is identified there, but at least they will have some remaining birds in other sheds, and of course compensation will help if there needs to be a cull. However, smaller producers can lose their entire flock overnight, and the compensation available is totally inadequate.”
“The Government have rightly identified biosecurity as crucial in trying to stop the spread of the disease, and I welcome the move that has required mandatory housing of birds since the beginning of November, but the spread is extremely rapid, and a single wild bird can infect thousands in a short time. It is right that we have established protection zones around areas where the disease has been identified, and there are more measures that we can take, particularly around the collection and disposal of the carcases of wild birds—one infected wild bird can massively affect a flock in a short time. We probably need to improve oversight of those backyard businesses involving a small number of chickens that supply eggs for families or perhaps for neighbours. They are equally at risk and the disease is equally likely to spread from them.”
“For a number of species, there is what the RSPB describes as a population impact, and guillemots, kittiwakes and Svalbard barnacle geese are all dying in such numbers that those species are being put at risk in this country. However, the disease is not only affecting wild birds; it is having a dramatic effect on the poultry industry—a major industry worth £2 billion to our economy. It employs more than 34,000 people and provides about half the meat consumed in Britain. The industry has already had to cope with serious challenges: the seasonal labour shortage, which came about immediately after we left the EU and remains a challenge, as the Minister is aware, and, following that, covid. Just as the industry was beginning to recover from those blows, along came avian influenza. It now faces an existential threat. We need a clear plan.”
“The disease spreads rapidly, possibly because the mutated virus that is affecting the population has an increased ability to replicate, and is extending to infect a broader range of species. That issue is not specific to this country, but global. In America, a record outbreak has led to more than 49 million birds in 46 states either being culled or dying since the beginning of the year. Across Europe, the disease has been found in 37 countries, with about 48 million birds being culled. Every country across the globe is affected, including even penguins in South Africa. An epidemic on such a scale is a disaster for wildlife and agriculture. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds reports that 65 species of wild bird have tested positive, with tens of thousands of birds dying every day.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the avian influenza outbreak. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir George, and I am grateful for the opportunity to debate avian influenza, which is an incredibly important issue. Avian influenza is not a new phenomenon—the industry and wild birds have been affected by it for a long time—but the current outbreak is by far the worst on record. Since the beginning of October, 136 cases of H5N1 have been identified, with millions of birds dying or being culled. The outbreak is affecting every part of the country, but particularly East Anglia. In my constituency of Maldon we have already had three cases in the past few weeks.”
“The fact that we have had contributions this morning from Members from all parts of the Chamber and every part of the United Kingdom is an indicator of how important this issue is to our country. I am grateful to all those who have contributed to the debate; I am particularly grateful to the Minister for setting out what is already in train, and for demonstrating that the Department will continue to have urgent talks with the industry and is open to suggestions. I therefore wish everybody a happy Christmas, and that they enjoy their turkey at that time and, hopefully, for many years to come. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the avian influenza outbreak.”
“I welcome the measures that the Government have already taken in the National Security and Investment Act to protect critical national infrastructure companies from overseas control, but does the Secretary of State agree that it is important we do not just shut the stable door, and that where we become aware that companies may have already come under the control of hostile overseas states, we act against those as well?”
“I think the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun also wanted further details of how the alternative fuel payment might be distributed, particularly to those who, for instance, rely on heating oil. As Maldon has a number of people in the same position as those in Scotland, I would be grateful if the Minister included me in any additional information that her Department is able to supply.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that the BBC World Service plays an ever more important role in countering disinformation, particularly from Russia and elsewhere? Will he therefore look to increase the amount of support that his Department gives to the World Service, and does he share my concern that the BBC is proposing to reduce funding by £28 million with the loss of 10 radio services?”
“I urge my hon. Friend to ask the BBC to think again. Will she remind it that stations such as BBC Essex are greatly valued by listeners and provide a service that is unavailable commercially? Online news is already well supplied by the local media, which is under considerable pressure even without greater competition from the BBC. Will she consider asking Ofcom to look into the impact of this decision on local publishers?”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. However, the compensation arrangements he outlined will do very little to help small producers such as KellyBronze in my constituency, which lost 9,800 turkeys from a flock of 10,000 in the space of a weekend, before the vet even arrived. Will he look to pay compensation from the date of notification, if the flock proves to be positive, as is the case for other species suffering from, for instance, foot and mouth disease? Will he confirm now that “freeze and thaw” will be available on the same basis next autumn, to give farmers the confidence to invest in birds for Christmas 2023?”
“Will my right hon. Friend make it clear that if, indeed, any attack did take place on the Russian Black sea fleet, the UK had absolutely no involvement in it? Will he confirm that despite the withdrawal of Russia from the agreement, ships bearing grain have nevertheless left Odesa today, and will he say whether he expects that to continue?”
“My hon. Friend will be aware of the critical importance of intellectual property protection to all the creative industries. Will he therefore reaffirm the commitment of his predecessor to look again at the proposal of the Intellectual Property Office to expand the exception for text and data mining, which would severely undermine intellectual property protection?”
“Does my hon. Friend share my concern at the recent behaviour of PayPal in arbitrarily removing certain accounts of campaigning and journalistic organisations without any warning or explanation? Will he consider how the Online Safety Bill can give greater protection for free speech by increasing the accountability of PayPal, Facebook and the other giant tech platforms?”
“Given the extraordinary success of the Ukrainian armed forces in pushing back Russian troops, does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a danger that Putin may consider escalating the conflict? While attention has focused on the potential use of battlefield nuclear weapons, does he agree that any use of chemical or biological weapons equally represents a red line which Putin must not cross?”
“Today, the whole town, indeed the whole of my constituency, is once again united in mourning the passage of Her late Majesty and in pledging allegiance to King Charles III.”
“Members, I benefited from meeting the Queen as a member of the Privy Council, and I had the good fortune to accompany her to the Cenotaph on one occasion, which is one of the roles of what was then the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. It was her two visits to Maldon, however, that my constituents will always value. The first visit was in 1971 to mark the 800th anniversary of the award of the charter to Maldon by Henry II. I was privileged to take part in the second visit in 2010, when the Queen visited Maldon Salt before walking down the high street to have lunch in the town hall. On that day, it seemed that the whole town turned out to celebrate her visit.”
“Members have spoken about how they are asked in primary schools whether they have met the Queen, and I have had exactly the same experience, but I have also been struck on international visits when many parliamentarians from across the world have spoken of their admiration of the Queen and have envied the fact that we have benefited from having her as our sovereign. We have seen that in the global tributes, with Union Jacks and the red, white and blue across America and Brazil; the extraordinary display on Sydney opera house yesterday; and the words of the President of France—a country that has not always had great relations with the British monarch—who said: “To you, she was your Queen. To us, she was the Queen.” Like many right hon.”
“I am sure that His Majesty King Charles will continue to provide advice and counsel, but my right hon. Friend must be sad that she will not benefit from the extraordinary wisdom and experience that Her late Majesty shared in advising 15 successive Prime Ministers. Before entering the House, I worked for one of those Prime Ministers, Margaret Thatcher. She used to fix in her diary—the only immutable engagement in 11 years—the weekly audience with Her Majesty. I suspect that there were, occasionally, some quite robust discussions—she never spoke of what was said—but I know that she immensely valued the experience of Her late Majesty and was hugely honoured when Her late Majesty attended her 70th birthday party. A number of hon.”
“It is a privilege to join hon. Members in paying tribute to Her late Majesty, not just on my own behalf, but on behalf of all the people of the Maldon constituency. Many fine tributes have been given yesterday and today, and many hon. Members have spoken of Her late Majesty’s dedication, commitment, remarkable sense of duty, and lifetime of service, which was always performed with dignity, compassion and kindness. I echo all those sentiments. It has been an extraordinary week, starting with the appointment of a new Prime Minister and ending with the accession of a new sovereign. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and I am sure she will be grateful that her first audience with the monarch was with Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth.”
“May I thank my right hon. Friend and his Ministers for all that they are doing to tackle this issue. He will be aware of the importance of water quality in areas where oysters are grown such as the Blackwater estuary. What progress is being made to require the water companies to provide additional investment to carry out microbiological treatment to prevent things like E. coli contamination?”
“They have ruthlessly suppressed all opposition and attempts to instil democracy and, until we can change that, these sanctions need to remain and, if anything, we need to look to strengthen them in time.”
“It is a very short space and, should it be occupied by Russia, it would cut off all three of the Baltic states from the rest of the world. The Baltic states genuinely fear the Russian deployment of troops in Belarus; they see it as a direct threat. For all those reasons, the sanctions are welcome, and I share the view that, in some ways, they should have been introduced sooner. However, while it is absolutely right that we make clear that Belarus’ support for the Russian invasion of Ukraine is wholly unacceptable, we need to go further. This is not just about stopping Belarus supporting Putin in Ukraine; we need to ensure that sanctions remain in place until we achieve a free and democratic Belarus because there should be no doubt that Belarus is a puppet state of Russia.”
“Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay and the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, that we could be going further in terms of sanctions against individuals. The Magnitsky sanctions were specifically introduced to target individuals who we know are guilty of human rights abuses; there are plenty of those in Belarus, particularly in relation to some of the atrocities that I have mentioned, and therefore, as well as the measures that we are looking at today, there is scope for further, targeted sanctions against those individuals who we know are committing human rights abuses. I also highlight the genuine concern felt in the Baltic states. The so-called Suwalki gap is about 60 miles. It is the strip of land between Belarus and Kaliningrad, which is under Russian occupation.”
“We particularly remember Pavel Sheremet, the opposition journalist who exposed corruption in Belarus, and was then blown up in his car. I welcome the fact that, at the parliamentary assembly of the OSCE in July, which was hosted by the UK in Birmingham and at which I led the UK delegation, the Government took the decision to refuse visas not just to the Russian delegation, but to the Belarus delegation. Both remain members of the OSCE. The Government quite rightly said that Members of Parliament from those two countries should not be issued with visas in order to attend. We did hear at the assembly from Belarus Free Theatre, which is one of the campaigning organisations subject to repression in Belarus but which nevertheless does a fantastic job outside the country in highlighting some of the abuses going on. I share the views of my hon.”
“I fully support the measures contained in the SI, although I regret their necessity. In 2018 I led the British Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union delegation to Belarus. We went there because at that time there was an assessment that Belarus might be inching slightly further away from Russia, and that there were some signs of hope that Belarus was moving towards a more democratic society. Those were entirely dispelled at the subsequent election in 2020, which the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe ruled was neither free nor fair, and involved massive and systemic violations and abuses of human rights. Belarus has an appalling human rights record. It has a history of murdering opposition activists and independent journalists. It was cited as having the worst environment for journalists almost in the world.”
“I strongly endorse the remarks made by my hon. Friends the Members for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill) and for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge), but may I raise a separate issue with the Secretary of State: the deep concern felt across the creative industries about the proposal in the consultation about relaxing the copyright exception for artificial intelligence? I spoke to the Minister’s predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore), who was sympathetic and said he would look into it. May I ask that the new Minister also looks into it and makes sure that we protect one of our most important industries?”
“T4. My right hon. Friend will be aware that yesterday was British IP Day, and that the creative industries for which she is responsible rely on intellectual property protection. Is she aware of the deep concern across the creative industries about proposals to dilute copyright for artificial intelligence, and will she raise the matter urgently with her colleagues in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy?”