Sir John Whittingdale
MP for Maldon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I strongly welcome the Secretary of State’s confirmation of our continuing support for Ukraine. He has set out the sustained threat from Russia facing not just Ukraine, but this country and the whole of Europe, yet for too many people, it is still business as usual.”
“That is perhaps even more relevant to the second prong of the Government’s proposals, which is about social media. I will come to that point, but before I finish talking about local media, I want to mention that another of the Government’s flagship policies is devolution.”
“The hon. Member is completely right that this issue must be addressed before we proceed. There is also the question of cost, raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wetherby and Easingwold (Sir Alec Shelbrooke). There are people who probably do have access to broadband, if they choose to pay for it, but they cannot afford to do so.”
“I was the Minister responsible for the passage of the Media Act 2024, during the previous Parliament. It is a great delight to see some familiar faces with whom I have worked with in the past on the officials’ Bench.”
“Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart) that young people are turning more and more to social media, but I do not think that this policy is the answer, because it looks to me like a very dangerous extension of Government interference in the freedom of the press and the right to free speech.”
“My right hon. Friend asks a perfectly valid question, and I want to acknowledge that there are concerns. We had a debate in Westminster Hall not that long ago, and a number of my colleagues—particularly from Scotland—turned up to express concern about the fact that the quality of reception via broadband in their constituencies is very poo…”
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“I agree. Yesterday, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee took evidence from the director general and the deputy director for news, Jonathan Munro, on this subject. He talked about the way the World Service provides its core language services and can also provide additional coverage quickly. Syria is a good example of where it is doing that. That is an extremely important role for the BBC, and one that I do not think could be funded in any way other than through public money. The BBC make a good case as to why the licence fee may no longer be appropriate, which we also need to consider. There are a large number of Members present in the Chamber, so I do not want to take up any more time.”
“I do not disagree with a lot of what the hon. Lady has said about the value of the BBC, but the problem is that more and more people are unwilling to pay the licence fee, and that has to be addressed. She wants to see a strongly financed and funded BBC, but she is going to have to come up with an answer to the fact that the revenue is going to go on declining under the present model.”
“I begin by thanking all hon. Members who have taken part in the debate. A number of criticisms of the BBC have been expressed, and I have my own criticisms; nevertheless, everybody recognises the value that the BBC brings to the UK and our society, and the importance of ensuring that it continues to play that important role. But there is a problem: the current model is looking harder and harder to sustain. I therefore suspect that we will continue to debate this issue over the coming weeks and years during the charter renewal process. I look forward to continuing my discussion with the Minister and others. I thank everybody for their contributions and join the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti), the Minister and all others in wishing all Members a very happy Christmas.”
“I would be grateful if the Minister looked at that, because the answer at the time was, “Local TV does not have apps, so you cannot give it prominence.” It was a question of chicken and egg, because the providers of local TV said, “If you give us prominence, we will develop the app.” I believe that the app is under development. While I welcome the statutory instrument today to allow the extension of licences for a further 10 years, it needs to be combined with prominence. I hope that the Minister will address that.”
“The Minister may remember that, slightly unusually, having first been the Minister responsible for the Bill, I then moved an amendment to it on Report that would have given prominence to local TV stations. Part of the problem is that, as I understand it, the Act does not allow Ofcom to come back and designate other stations outside the main PSBs as requiring prominence. If the transition to a digital world continues at its current pace, more and more people will access TV through the internet and no longer through Freeview, and there is not the guarantee of prominence for local TV. Local TV made it very clear that it needed prominence. Unfortunately, I was unable to persuade the Government to accept my amendment, and so it is not in the Media Act.”
“The Minister and I recall—I am sure with great pleasure—our exchanges during the passage of the Media Act 2024 in the last Parliament. In relation to public service broadcasting, the prime purpose of the Act was to give prominence to public service broadcasting stations on digital platforms. They had the guarantee of the first few slots on the EPG, but as we moved to a world where people access television by various different means, there was real concern that they would no longer be guaranteed that prominence, which would result in a drop in viewers and so perhaps less advertising revenue for the commercial stations and less prominence for the BBC. The Government, with the support of the Opposition at the time, addressed that by giving prominence to the public service broadcasters.”
“One of the consequences of local TV stations’ difficulties is that there has been a huge amount of consolidation over the past 10 years. To my mind, however, the most important thing is not ownership, but content, so Ofcom, which has the job of laying down the licence conditions, needs to make it clear that that is the priority and focus, particularly in the area of news. As both my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden and Solihull East and the hon. Member for Guildford said, the task of drawing up a business plan to cover 10 years is challenging, so I hope that Ofcom will give guidance on how it expects television stations to set out business plans for a decade ahead. That brings me to another important point, which the hon. Member for Guildford raised.”
“I have to say that London Live has perhaps not been as successful as some others; if hon. Members happen to watch it, they will see an awful lot of ’60s comedy shows, if that is their taste, and not a huge amount of local content. As we come to the issue of the licence for the next 10 years, I ask the Minister to indicate to Ofcom the importance of local content. If local TV is to be of value, it needs to provide content that people want to see that is about their own community but is not available on regional TV stations. Coming from Essex, I can say that it is deeply frustrating that the local TV provided by ITV or BBC tells me what is happening in Cambridgeshire or Norwich, which is not of huge interest to my constituents. Local TV therefore has a real role to play.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I am, in general, a supporter of local TV. That used to be somewhat more controversial that it is today. Local TV was invented by my right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash (Jeremy Hunt) when he was the Secretary of State. His mantra at the time was, “Why should Birmingham, Alabama have a TV station and not Birmingham, England?” That point was widely recognised, but in the subsequent 10 years local TV has struggled. Local TV has the advantage of EPG prominence— the No. 5 slot in most parts of the country—and has survived mainly by combining local television news and content with cheap programming, from which it derives advertising revenue. That is a difficult balance to strike, and some stations have been more successful than others.”
“UKHospitality has estimated that the Budget measures will increase the cost of employing one employee by £2,500. Shops, pubs and restaurants across my constituency have said that that will lead to higher prices or fewer jobs. Will the Minister at least consider delaying the implementation of the national insurance contribution increase to 2026-27, when the planned realignment of business rates is due to come in?”
“The Minister intends to impose thousands more houses on my constituency, when there are already not enough school places, not enough doctors and congested roads. Will he at least look at ways in which financial arrangements can be established that would mean that developers can be made to fund necessary infrastructure ahead of house building and sale, rather than waiting for months and possibly years after completion?”
“Does the Foreign Secretary agree that we should not be surprised that one war criminal, President Putin, is now sheltering another, Assad? He will be aware that substantial assets owned by Assad or those linked to him are frozen in this country. Will he consider, in due course, whether we might use those for the benefit of the people of Syria?”
“The Government, as far as I am aware, have not commented on her case, and she has struggled to obtain support from the Foreign Office, so I ask the Minister specifically to look into her case as well. There is also the case of Gubad Ibadoghlu, an Azeri activist but one who was a senior adviser at the London School of Economics. He returned to visit his family in Azerbaijan in 2023, and was promptly arrested and locked up. His family were quite badly assaulted during his arrest, and my right hon. Friend and I, and any others who were at that dinner a couple of weeks ago, will have heard his daughter speaking about that and about her fears for his health. He, too, is seriously ill and needs assistance.”
“I therefore ask the Foreign Secretary to reflect on what he said in opposition, and to strengthen the progress that we are making. The third case that I want to mention is that of a British journalist who is not in prison. Clare Rewcastle Brown, an independent journalist, has been the target of abusive lawsuits in Malaysia since she exposed corruption there. This year she was sentenced, in absentia, to two years in prison on a bogus defamation charge, having not even been told that she had been put on trial. Obviously she is anxious to appeal, but she has been told that if she is to appeal, she must attend the court in Malaysia in person. Very understandably, she is extremely reluctant to do so, given the amount of personal risk.”
“I have met his son Sebastien, as has the Foreign Secretary, and we will continue to raise his case here until he is released. There has also been reference to Alaa Abd el-Fattah. Like a number of other Members, I was able to speak to his mother, Laila Soueif, very recently. She is on a hunger strike to obtain his release. He has been convicted of spreading false news, and has been a long-standing target of the regime. It is notable that, in opposition, the Foreign Secretary was very vocal in condemning the Egyptian Government in respect of his case, and actually called on the Government to deny the Egyptian ambassador access to Whitehall until he was released. I have not observed the Egyptian ambassador being denied access, and Alaa Abd el-Fattah is still in prison.”
“The release at the same time of Evan Gershkovich, an American journalist, was clearly another strong priority. It is welcome that here is a case in which we have actually obtained the release of a British national, but sadly a number of others are still in prison. My right hon. Friend mentioned several of them, but I will start, as he did, with the case of Jimmy Lai, a remarkably brave man who is now detained under the draconian national security law that has been introduced in Hong Kong. It is noticeable that, just two decades ago, Hong Kong was 18th in the world rankings for press freedom; it is now 135th. Jimmy Lai was a publisher who worked to uphold freedom of speech; he was imprisoned as a result, and his health is now under severe pressure after four years in solitary confinement.”
“We were seriously worried, particularly after the death of Alexei Navalny, that Kara-Murza would be next. There was certainly evidence to suggest that he would have died had he remained in prison, and I know that the British Government, along with the American Government and others, did a great deal to obtain his release through a prisoner swap that took place a few months ago. I have some concerns about the concept of prisoner swaps, because there is always the risk that carrying out a swap to obtain the release of innocent people in return for sending back people who are certainly not innocent—which is what happened in this instance—simply encourages the detention of other innocents in the future. In Kara-Murza’s case, however, I think that had he not been released he would have died.”
“It is doubly concerning that some of the journalists who are in prison are British. My right hon. Friend has mentioned a few specific cases, and I want to do the same. Both he and I were privileged to attend the Magnitsky awards dinner a couple of weeks ago. Bill Browder, now Sir William Browder, has done a huge amount, initially to support prisoners in Russia and to bring sanctions against those responsible for the death of Sergei Magnitsky, but he has widened his campaign to highlight cases of detained political prisoners around the world. In respect of the first case I shall mention, I am able to congratulate the Government on the part that they played. At the dinner, it was a privilege to meet Vladimir Kara-Murza. I have raised his case in the House, and many other people have done so over the last few years.”
“Friend the Member for Rutland and Stamford (Alicia Kearns), who continues to chair the all-party parliamentary group on arbitrary detention and hostage affairs and to take a strong interest in the subject. The APPG produced an extremely good report, although I have to say that the Government response was a bit disappointing, so it is right for us to press these matters further today. I myself chair the all-party parliamentary group on media freedom. Media freedom is also under huge pressure across the globe: far too many journalists have died in pursuit of their profession, or are currently in prison. According to the latest report, 546 journalists and media workers are detained as of today. The UK has rightly championed the cause of media freedom, especially in the Foreign Office, and we need to go on making that case.”
“I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) on securing the debate, and on the tremendous amount of work that he has done in this area. It is also a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for South Islington and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, which I have been delighted to join as a new member in the last few weeks. I am pleased to be able to say that I thought she made an excellent contribution, and I agreed with every word of it. I also join her in recognising the amount of work that was done by the previous Committee in the last Parliament, under the chairmanship of my hon.”
“I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend, who makes the point that I was just coming to. As the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee pointed out, all too often one part of Government may be pressing for somebody’s release while other parts of Government seem to have a normal relationship with the foreign Government responsible and do little. We managed to send many delegates to COP29—I cannot remember how many there were, but it was certainly in three figures—but I would be interested to know how many of them actually raised with the Government in Baku the case of Dr Ibadoghlu.”
“Unfortunately, with the single exception of Vladimir Kara-Murza, all too many of those cases involve British nationals who continue to be unfairly and unjustly imprisoned, sometimes at risk to their lives. I look forward to the Minister’s response on those points.”
“I will finish by endorsing some of the recommendations made by the Foreign Affairs Committee in the last Parliament, which have been echoed by its current Chair. A legal right to consular access is very important, and is something that the Labour party said it would bring in. We raised that legal right with the Foreign Secretary the other day, and I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm that the Government still intend to introduce it. I agree with hon. Members including the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee that the establishment of a separate directorate for arbitrary and complex detentions within the FCDO would be a really valuable addition. There is confusion at the moment, because all too often we are told that cases are being pursued, but nothing happens.”
“Let us not argue about whether or not it was raised. Let us agree that what we should do is continue to raise it with the Government of Azerbaijan until Dr Ibadoghlu is released. The final case that I must mention, given that it was raised, quite rightly, by the hon. Member for Wirral West (Matthew Patrick), is that of Emily Damari, one of the hostages being held in Gaza, who is a British citizen. She is 28 and has been held for 425 days. Her mother is obviously deeply anxious to know that she is still alive, so the Government must do everything possible to try to obtain her release. I know that other Members intend to raise other cases. It is sad that so many British citizens are detained arbitrarily on trumped-up charges around the world, and that this debate is so vital and necessary.”
“The Minister will be aware of widespread reports of vote buying, ballot stuffing and carousel voting—people voting multiple times—in the Georgian election. It comes just a few weeks after very similar reports from Moldova where, again, there was massive electoral interference. What more can we do to help countries that are trying to move away from Russia’s orbit and become more democratic, and to stop Russian interference in those elections?”
“The Minister has said that he is not willing to give details of the financial arrangement, although he will be aware that the Mauritian Prime Minister has described the deal as a sell-out. Can he at least give an assurance that the Government will not commit to giving yet more money to get the deal through before the new US Administration arrives in January?”
“T7. May I commend the report from the House of Lords Communications and Digital Committee, entitled “The future of news”? It highlights the threat from the unauthorised use of news content to train AI models. Will the Secretary of State consider, as a matter of urgency, strengthening the legislation in this area, and consider the introduction of a licensing scheme, as the report recommends?”
“My hon. Friend has done a fantastic job in this area. He has been very persuasive in setting out the damage done to his constituency. Does he agree that the strength of the OffSET group—the offshore electricity grid taskforce—demonstrates that the issue is going to affect communities right across East Anglia, including Margaretting village in my constituency, and that therefore the opposition he talks about is likely to be very strong across the whole region?”
“I strongly welcome the decision to allow Ukraine to strike against targets in Russia, from which missiles, drones and glide bombs are launched. In discussing how best to support Ukraine, will the Prime Minister say what progress was made in assisting Ukraine’s own military industrial sector to allow it to develop its own technology and to reduce its reliance on the West?”
“Rather than doing that, I urge the Government to consider the work done in DCMS and the Ministry of Justice, and in particular the debates that took place during the Committee stage of Wayne David’s private Member’s Bill, and to introduce legislation to deal with the chilling of media freedom in the UK, which I absolutely recognise is a legitimate concern.”
“Not all cases claimed to be SLAPPs are SLAPPs, in my view—particularly those in which the claimant has subsequently proved successful in the action that they have brought in the court. That almost disproves the claim that it was a SLAPP to begin with, so we do need to be careful. I have also had correspondence from the Society of Media Lawyers, which suggested that there is a lack of empirical evidence and that campaigners ignore existing legal and regulatory tools. It also suggested that this is an area that the Law Commission should perhaps review, but I have a concern that such a review is a way of pushing the matter into very long grass and would unnecessarily delay measures on which a great deal of work has already been done.”
“It reached the House of Lords but it did not reach the statute book because of the general election. A lot of work has been done, and I hope that we can build on and learn from it. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism has sent a number of cases as examples of SLAPPs—the hon. Gentleman quoted one of them. I do not want to use privilege to cite individual cases, but there is concern that it is happening in a number of areas, and we need to address it through legislative change. At the same time, it is important to recognise that individuals have a right to defend themselves against untrue and unfounded accusations. That is as much a fundamental part of liberty as freedom of speech.”
“That led to a lot of work on trying to understand the prevalence of SLAPPs, producing guidance for journalists, examining the legal ethics and what more might be done—both by the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Bar Standards Board—to ensure that law firms did not take on cases for which there was no real justification other than an attempt to shut down journalism, and raising awareness. Four meetings of that taskforce took place—I do not know whether it still exists, but I very much hope that it does. I would be interested to hear what work has continued under this Government, as a lot was done under the last. As the hon. Member for South Dorset rightly recognised, Wayne David introduced a Bill that was prepared in government to tackle the issue of SLAPPs, and it was amended during its passage to strengthen it.”
“As I say, the DCMS National Committee for the Safety of Journalists established a SLAPPs taskforce in 2023—I think that was in my third incarnation in government with responsibility for the media. The taskforce brought together Departments, such as DCMS and the Ministry of Justice, representatives of campaigning organisations, such as Reporters Without Borders and Index on Censorship, and publishers and journalists, including the News Media Association and the National Union of Journalists. The taskforce was chaired by Janis Makarewich-Hall, the excellent DCMS official. Its initial meeting was attended by the then Secretary of State Lucy Frazer, and I attended as many meetings as I could.”
“Again, it was interesting that somebody as notorious as that had chosen to bring an action in the UK. The hon. Member for South Dorset suggested that it is a matter of shame that the UK is seen as the centre for such actions, and I share his concern to some extent. It is also a tribute to the strength and independence of the UK judicial system, which is admired around the world. The reason why so many people wish to pursue actions in the UK courts is normally that they have greater confidence in UK courts than those in many other places. It is right that we should take action where the motivation behind those actions is more to do with preventing legitimate inquiry.”
“I remember that we heard from Catherine Belton, the author of “Putin’s People”, and Tom Burgis, who wrote “Kleptopia”, both of which revealed corruption, in one case on the part of an ally of President Putin in Russia and, in the other, on the part of some individuals in Kazakhstan. Both were subject to legal action against them personally as well as against their publishers. Perhaps the most appalling example, which was debated in this House at length, was the discovery that Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder and leader of the Wagner Group, had been allowed to circumvent the sanctions placed on him to bring a legal action against the director of Bellingcat, who had rightly identified him as the leader of the Wagner Group. That was a scandal, and I am glad to say that the decision was subsequently reversed.”
“When I returned to the position of Minister responsible for the media—in my second incarnation—we were nevertheless aware that it remained a problem. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport had established the National Committee for the Safety of Journalists, which I hope is still in existence. The committee was originally set up to look at the physical threat to journalists and attempts to intimidate them through harassment—sometimes online but occasionally through physical aggression—and a lot of work was done on it. We then agreed that the issue of SLAPPs represented an attempt to prevent media freedom and to close down legitimate public interest journalism, so the committee extended its work to cover SLAPPs.”
“We also heard from the author Tom Bower, who was subject to a legal action over a very small reference to Richard Desmond in his book about Conrad Black. Mr Desmond lost the action, but was prepared to pay a huge amount to bring it about. Certainly, it was Mr Bower’s view that he did so to demonstrate that he was willing to spend a large amount even on a small and relatively minor accusation. The result was that Mr Bower’s plans to write a book about Mr Desmond did not proceed because the publishers were too afraid of potential legal action. As the hon. Member for South Dorset recognised, further measures since the Defamation Act 2013 have been introduced, primarily through the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Act 2023, which focused specifically on the issue of SLAPPs around economic crime or allegations.”
“Despite that, a Saudi businessman named in the book took legal action against Dr Ehrenfeld in the UK courts. He was awarded considerable damages on the basis that Dr Ehrenfeld did not defend the action in a court that she saw as having no jurisdiction over the matter. That led to the introduction of the Libel Terrorism Protection Act 2008 by the New York state legislature, which basically said that residents of New York did not have to abide by foreign courts’ judgments in this particular area. Since that time, the situation has much improved and, of course, the Defamation Act 2013 sought to address the specific issue of libel tourism and raised the bar for claimants in libel cases. Nevertheless, there has still been a chilling effect.”
“The reason we have improved is that a lot of other countries have gotten considerably worse, so we have risen as a result of their demotion. The hon. Member for South Dorset is right that the phenomenon of SLAPPs has been a blot on our record for a considerable time. I chaired the Culture, Media and Sport Committee for 10 years. In 2009, we carried out an inquiry into press standards, privacy and libel. In particular, we saw the phenomenon of libel tourism, which, to some extent, continues to this day. We heard about, for instance, the case of Dr Rachel Ehrenfeld, a US academic who had written the book “Funding Evil: How Terrorism is Financed and How to Stop It”. The book appeared in the United States; it had no British edition. Twenty-three copies were obtained in the United Kingdom by ordering over the internet.”
“I thank the hon. Member for South Dorset (Lloyd Hatton) for obtaining the debate, which is on an important subject. I chaired the all-party parliamentary group on media freedom, and am delighted to see the vice-chair, the hon. Member for Kensington and Bayswater (Joe Powell), attending the debate. The UK has a proud record of defending and promoting media freedom in this country and across the world. In 2019, the UK established the global Media Freedom Coalition, which now has 51 members. During my time of involvement in the media, which goes back quite a long way, I always paid careful attention to the annual publication of the world press freedom index. I am pleased that the UK’s ranking has risen substantially in recent years. We now stand at No. 23—still some way to go, but nevertheless an improvement.”
“As well as the legislative measures that were to be taken forward through Wayne David’s Bill, non-legislative measures were being developed through the SLAPPs taskforce. Could the Minister say whether that is still continuing?”
“He told me that they had so far had 25 deployments across Essex, resulting in 26 arrests and 26 other positive disposals. He said: “This cutting-edge technology has enabled us to keep the public safe, and can save time and effort of our front-line, allowing them to do other work to protect and support the community.””
“In the course of the 30 minutes or so that I spent with those officers, they recorded 1,500 faces of people who passed by. The officers assured me that those images were matched against the watch list to see whether they registered a positive, and if they did not they were deleted in less than half a second. During the time I was there, there were approximately 10 positives, which led to a conversation: a police officer would go and have a polite exchange to find out why the person had registered positive, and they were checked against the Police National Computer or Athena. That morning, that led to two arrests. The chief constable of Essex has written to me and colleagues to emphasise the effectiveness of the technology and its importance to that force.”
“It was first used in 2017, and it is now commonly used by the Metropolitan police, South Wales police and now my own police force in Essex, which purchased two vans in August and use it regularly. On 4 October, I accompanied police officers on a deployment in Chelmsford High Street, who were hugely helpful in explaining to me exactly how they use the technology and, importantly, what controls are in place. They told me that they had a watch list of 639 individuals who had been approved by the superintendent and were wanted for questioning in relation to offences such as violence against the person. They included people with outstanding warrants, suspects linked to county lines, suspected shoplifters in that particular part of the county, and those with a sexual harm prevention order.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered police use of live facial recognition technology. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Siobhain. I am grateful for this opportunity to debate the police’s use of live facial recognition technology. I have to say that this debate is somewhat overdue. Any fan of Hollywood movies would think that the use of facial recognition technology is widespread, as in “The Bourne Ultimatum” and “Spooks”, and that it is commonplace for MI5 and the CIA to tap into CCTV cameras across London. I do not believe that is correct— I hope it is not—but police forces are using facial recognition technology more and more.”
“I certainly agree that more assurances need to be given. That is actually one of the purposes behind requesting this debate. The hon. Lady is right that concerns have been expressed—”
“I agree with my right hon. Friend. The problem at the moment is that we do not even have national guidelines. There is a complete absence, which I will come to later. I will give way to the shadow Home Secretary.”
“It says: “There is no dedicated legislation in the UK on the use of facial recognition technologies.” Instead, its use is governed by common law and by an interpretation of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, although that Act does not mention live facial recognition technology, and some case law, such as the Bridges case. Even in the Bridges case, the Court of Appeal found that “The current policies do not sufficiently set out the terms on which discretionary powers can be exercised by the police and for that reason do not have the necessary quality of law.””
“Liberty has gone further, saying: “Creating law to govern police and private company use…will not solve the human rights concerns or the tech’s inbuilt discrimination…The only solution is to ban it.” I do not agree with that, because I think there is clear evidence that it has a real benefit in helping the police apprehend people who are wanted for serious offences, but one of my major concerns is the lack of any clarity in law about how it should be used. I am grateful to the Library, which has provided advice on that point.”