Sir John Whittingdale
MP for Maldon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I strongly welcome the Secretary of State’s confirmation of our continuing support for Ukraine. He has set out the sustained threat from Russia facing not just Ukraine, but this country and the whole of Europe, yet for too many people, it is still business as usual.”
“That is perhaps even more relevant to the second prong of the Government’s proposals, which is about social media. I will come to that point, but before I finish talking about local media, I want to mention that another of the Government’s flagship policies is devolution.”
“The hon. Member is completely right that this issue must be addressed before we proceed. There is also the question of cost, raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wetherby and Easingwold (Sir Alec Shelbrooke). There are people who probably do have access to broadband, if they choose to pay for it, but they cannot afford to do so.”
“I was the Minister responsible for the passage of the Media Act 2024, during the previous Parliament. It is a great delight to see some familiar faces with whom I have worked with in the past on the officials’ Bench.”
“Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart) that young people are turning more and more to social media, but I do not think that this policy is the answer, because it looks to me like a very dangerous extension of Government interference in the freedom of the press and the right to free speech.”
“My right hon. Friend asks a perfectly valid question, and I want to acknowledge that there are concerns. We had a debate in Westminster Hall not that long ago, and a number of my colleagues—particularly from Scotland—turned up to express concern about the fact that the quality of reception via broadband in their constituencies is very poo…”
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“In 2019, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office pledged £3 million to the fund over the next five years, and we are delivering on that commitment. To date, the fund has supported a variety of activities, such as pursuing strategic litigation with the goal of challenging laws and regulations that infringe on media freedom in Zanzibar, and investigative journalism that is focused on cases of threatened, prosecuted, imprisoned, attacked or assassinated journalists in the Philippines. I thank the High Level Panel of Legal Experts on Media Freedom for its contribution to international efforts to promote media freedom. We are now working through all the recommendations of its report, with a view to responding. Just before I finish, I will touch on an issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe and by the right hon.”
“I am delighted that our work on that has already been praised at the Stockholm Conference on Media Freedom in the OSCE region, and has perhaps contributed to the promotion in the ranking of the UK on the World Press Freedom Index. In response to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale), I can confirm that the UK is using our presidency of the G7 to highlight the importance of media freedom. We will be asking G7 members to reconfirm their commitment to defend media freedom and to provide practical, technical and programmatic support to journalists and media, including through the global media defence fund. The fund was set up with the help of the UK and UNESCO, which currently manages it, and we continue to support it.”
“Every police force will have a dedicated officer to whom journalists can make a complaint, or whom they can contact in the event of abuse against them. The police will be trained, particularly about the importance of safeguarding journalists. Employers will provide extra training, and the platforms where a lot of the abuse occurs have said that they will establish designated journalism safety officers. There is still more to be done, and one of the first things that we want to do is to get more evidence about the scale of the problem. We will shortly be publishing the call for evidence, and I hope that any journalist operating in the UK who has suffered in such a way will respond to it.”
“I have met and talked to her about the abuse that occurred, which led her to have to seek police protection. It was for that reason that we established the National Committee for the Safety of Journalists, which brings together senior figures from law enforcement, the police, the prosecuting authorities, the campaigning organisations, the Government, and both the Society of Editors and the National Union of Journalists. The aim was to demonstrate a shared commitment to ensure that journalists are free to carry out their vital role without threats of violence. We have now published the first ever national action plan for the safety of journalists, which sets out the actions that all the partners will take to protect journalists.”
“We will continue to high- light that and to put pressure on the Iranian Government to respect their freedom. As I said, the World Press Freedom Index, which several Members have referred to and which was published in April, showed that the UK had risen by two places, to No. 33. It is obviously good news that we have gone up in the rankings, but to some extent that is because other countries have gone down. It demonstrates that we undoubtedly still have a lot of work to do. The death of Lyra McKee, a journalist in Belfast, is happily a very rare example of where a journalist in this country has lost their life in the course of their work, but there is no question that journalists in the UK still suffer dreadful harassment and abuse. The hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) mentioned Amy Fenton.”
“There was no question: the country was not democratic or free, and journalism was under terrific pressure. We met independent journalists operating there. Reporters Without Borders has assessed Belarus as the most dangerous country in Europe for media actors. I am pleased that the Government are supporting independent media organisations in that country, and we have already committed £2.7 million of support for independent media in Belarus. Alongside the Government, the IPU has been very active in championing media freedom and organising conferences, and I can remember listening to the relatives of journalists operating for the BBC’s Persian Service. The Persian Service is not able to operate in Iran. Its journalists broadcast from London on the BBC, but their relatives in Iran are being subjected to harassment and intimidation.”
“It is still a relatively young body, but it is growing and currently has 47 members. This year the coalition has already issued statements about China, Belarus and Myanmar, as well as a statement marking World Press Freedom Day. We are working on giving the coalition more impact on the ground by encouraging local collaboration in countries with those who are better able to engage with Governments and lobby them directly. A number of countries have been mentioned, but I think it is important to speak about the most recent appalling example of the danger faced by journalists, which is of course the hijacking of an aeroplane and then the detention of Roman Protasevich in Belarus. In 2018, I led an Inter-Parliamentary Union delegation to Belarus.”
“Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson) reminded us of our own Marie Colvin, who was killed in Syria along with her photographer, French journalist Rémi Ochlik, in 2012. I am sure he heard, as I have, Paul Conroy, who was also badly injured at that time, talk about how the shelling that killed Marie Colvin and her colleague was deliberately aimed at them because they were journalists. It is because media freedom is so important that the Government have championed the cause of media freedom around the world. As has been mentioned, in July 2019 the UK hosted the Global Conference for Media Freedom, which led to the establishment of the Media Freedom Coalition of like-minded countries that pledged to collaborate to improve the media freedom environment across the world. The UK continues to co-chair the coalition.”
“According to Reporters Without Borders, which does a terrific job of monitoring that and campaigning, already this year 13 more journalists or media assistants have been killed, and there are currently 439 in prison. The summary analysis of its World Press Freedom Index 2021, published in April, said that journalism is completely or partly blocked in 73% of the 180 countries ranked in the index; that the coronavirus pandemic has been used by Governments as cover for blocking journalists’ access to information; and that journalists find it increasingly hard to investigate and report sensitive stories, especially in Asia, the middle east and Europe. I join a number of those who have contributed in paying tribute to the courage of journalists working in some of the most difficult, dangerous and challenging parts of the world. The hon.”
“He is obviously prevented from taking part in this debate in our House, but I work with him closely. It is encouraging that there has been widespread recognition across this Chamber that media freedom is a crucial component of an open, democratic society. We may not always like or agree with what is written about us in the press, but the role of a free media in holding Government to account, in exposing corruption or malpractice and in providing trusted, reliable information and reporting has never been more important. However, media freedom is under increasing threat across the world. A number of Members pointed out that 50 journalists were killed last year while doing their job.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ghani. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) on securing the debate and on his work to promote media freedom. I am particularly grateful to him for taking over as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on media freedom, which I chaired until February 2020. A lot of Members have focused on dreadful abuses of media freedom in different countries around the world, and so to some extent Members might have expected a response from a Foreign Office Minister. The Minister who has specific responsibility for the subject is my noble Friend Lord Ahmad, the Minister for South Asia and the Commonwealth, who is doing a great job championing media freedom internationally.”
“The BBC board has also announced today its own review, led by the senior independent director and two non-executive members, of the BBC’s editorial guidelines and standards committee. That review will examine editorial oversight, the robustness and independence of whistleblowing processes, and the wider culture within the BBC. It will take independent expert advice and will report by September. In an era of fake news and disinformation, the need for public service broadcasting and trusted journalism has never been stronger. The BBC has been, and should be, a beacon setting standards to which others can aspire, but it has fallen short so badly and has damaged its reputation both here and across the world. The BBC now needs urgently to demonstrate that these failings have been addressed and that this can never happen again.”
“It was to deliver that that we made fundamental changes when the BBC’s charter was renewed in 2015-16. Since then, the BBC Trust has been replaced by a more powerful board with an external regulator, Ofcom, responsible for overseeing the BBC’s content and being the ultimate adjudicator of complaints. We also made provision at that time for a mid-term review by the Government to ensure that the new governance arrangements were working effectively. That review is due next year but work on it will start now. In particular, we will wish to be satisfied that the failures that have been identified could not have occurred if the new governance arrangements had been in place.”
“Lord Dyson’s report makes shocking reading. It details not just an appalling failure to uphold basic journalistic standards but an unwillingness to investigate complaints and to discover the truth. That these failures occurred at our national broadcaster is an even greater source of shame. The new leadership at the BBC deserve credit for setting up an independent inquiry and for accepting its findings in full. However, the reputation of the BBC—its most precious asset—has been badly tarnished, and it is right that the BBC board and wider leadership now consider urgently how confidence and trust in the corporation can be restored. It is not for the Government to interfere in editorial decisions, but it is the job of Government to ensure that there is a strong and robust system of governance at the BBC with effective external oversight.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on his urgent question. He maintains the fine tradition of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee asking probing and incisive questions. The questions he raises are valid. The process by which Martin Bashir was recruited to return to the BBC, and his subsequent resignation a couple of weeks ago, are matters that the director-general is investigating urgently, and I expect him to provide a fuller account of exactly what happened shortly. I know my hon. Friend will want to examine the BBC on that question, and indeed on the other valid questions that he raised about the composition of the panel, its diversity, and the protection in place for whistleblowing. Those important questions need to be addressed, and I am sure that my hon. Friend and the Committee will do that.”
“Lady that the question of funding of the BBC is a separate one and that the licence fee—while it will be subject to debate, I have no doubt, in the coming years—is in place until the end of this charter in 2027.”
“I thank the hon. Lady, and I agree with very much—indeed, almost everything—she said. On the governance of the BBC, as I said earlier, fundamental changes were made a few years ago, which we believe would have meant that somebody who wished to blow the whistle in the way that took place would have been listened to, and they would have had recourse to Ofcom if they were dissatisfied with the BBC. We must be absolutely sure that the new governance arrangements work properly, and there may well be need for further editorial oversight. That is what the BBC’s review is designed to reveal. However, I share her view about the importance of trust in the BBC. The mid-term review will be carefully conducted; we will not rush into any changes. Finally, I can confirm to the hon.”
“I must thank my hon. Friend for his words. He is absolutely right that the previous governance arrangements were deeply flawed, and Sir David Clementi, who conducted the review and then went on to become chair of the BBC, put in place a much stronger governance system, with both a stronger internal management board and external oversight, and we do believe that that would have been much more effective if it had been in place when some of the events we are debating took place. I also absolutely agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of the BBC. We have just heard a statement from my right hon Friend the Foreign Secretary about a country where public service broadcasting is not free, fair or independent. The BBC is a beacon of those things, and we are determined to strengthen it and to restore trust in it across the world.”
“The hon. Gentleman speaks with experience, as a former employee of the BBC, and he raises extremely valid questions. As I say, the BBC is conducting an urgent investigation into the circumstances of the employment of Martin Bashir, but if questions remain following that, I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman, as a member of the Select Committee, will not be reticent in putting them to the BBC.”
“I do not want to pre-empt either the BBC’s review of editorial oversight or the mid-term review, which we are only just beginning to work on, but my hon. Friend makes some extremely valid points. We placed impartiality in the first line of the BBC’s public purposes at the time of charter renewal, and we will wish to be satisfied that the BBC is delivering that, but I know that the new chair and the director-general take that very seriously.”
“I absolutely assure the right hon. Lady that there is no question of dismantling or defunding the BBC. It is a priceless national asset, and one of the most serious consequences of the revelations of the past week is that its reputation and trust in it have been badly damaged. It is essential that it retains its position as the most trusted and reliable broadcaster in the world, and there is work to be done to restore that reputation.”
“I agree with my right hon. Friend. He is entirely right that this is not a one-off incident. There have been dreadful failings by the BBC in its journalism in recent years, and he mentioned three of them. I would say that all of those happened before the new charter was put in place, but we need to assess the effectiveness of the charter to ensure it is properly working, and that is something that we will start work on straightaway.”
“I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. Indeed, my right hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) made the same point immediately before him. It is right that the BBC investigates the precise circumstances that led to Martin Bashir’s interview and the subsequent failure to investigate properly the complaints, but it goes wider than that. It is a question of culture. We are determined that the BBC should be properly reflective of the diversity of sex, race, thought and geography. In the future, it must not just be made up of people who pat themselves on the back and turn a blind eye when accusations are made. Fundamental reform is needed, but I am assured that the new management recognises that and is determined to address it.”
“I understand my right hon. Friend’s strength of feeling. As he will know, we have now twice examined whether non-payment of the licence fee should be decriminalised, but this has revealed that if we decriminalise, there is a risk that the alternative enforcement mechanisms would lead to more distress for people who are perhaps not in a position to pay, with the possibility of bailiffs arriving and even greater fines. So we need to look at this very carefully. As we have said, we have not ruled out decriminalisation, but we are balancing that against the consequences of the alternatives, and that is something that the Government will continue to examine.”
“I do agree with the hon. Gentleman. The independence of the BBC is absolutely central to its reputation for objectivity and reliability, and indeed it contrasts strongly with the channel that he also mentioned, RT, which has none of those things. We are absolutely committed to maintaining and indeed strengthening the independence, objectivity and fairness of the BBC.”
“I do agree with my hon. Friend. She is absolutely right to say that it is those qualities of accuracy, impartiality and fairness that are admired around the world as being as being represented by the BBC. That is why the revelations in the Dyson report are so damaging, because they cast doubt on those things. I can assure her that not just the Government but, I believe, the BBC are absolutely conscious of that and determined to put it right.”
“I do agree with that statement. There is no question but that the challenge posed by fake news and disinformation, which are circulating at a level we have never previously seen, makes it all the more important that there are trustworthy, reliable places where one can go without questioning the validity of what is being reported, and the BBC represents that above all else. I read with great interest the Select Committee report that the hon. Gentleman referred to, and in large part the Government completely agree with it, certainly, the importance of public service broadcasting —that has never been less, as was powerfully set out by His Royal Highness Prince William in his comments about this episode.”
“There is no question but that even before Lord Dyson’s report was published there was a widespread feeling that the culture in the BBC needed to change—that it was made up too much of people of the same mindset and the same background and from the same part of the world. That is something that I believe the new leadership—under the recently appointed chair, Richard Sharp, and the director-general—are aware of and intend to address.”
“I regard it as absolutely essential in not just the BBC but all public bodies. We need to make sure that, in future, if somebody blows the whistle and exposes malpractice in the BBC, the consequence is that somebody else gets fired, not that they do.”
“My hon. Friend is right that we need to see much stronger oversight of the editorial decision-making process in the BBC. The BBC board covers a vast range of different aspects of the BBC’s activities—its strategy, its budget and so on—and there is a case for greater oversight, particularly of journalistic and editorial decisions. Quite how that is brought about is something that the review that the BBC has put in place is examining urgently. I understand that that review will publish a report by September, and we will obviously want to look at it very carefully.”
“The BBC is the British Broadcasting Corporation. It reports on activities across the United Kingdom. It is paid for by every person resident in the United Kingdom who has a television. Impartiality and fairness apply as much in its reporting of domestic politics as they do internationally. There are questions to be answered, as I agreed earlier, and the hon. Lady is correct. However, I do believe that the British Broadcasting Corporation should remain a beacon of impartiality for all residents of the United Kingdom.”
“The questions surrounding the employment of Martin Bashir are being urgently investigated by the corporation, as I said, and I expect a statement to be made very shortly. On whether any criminal offences have been committed, I understand that a request has gone to the Metropolitan police to examine the evidence that has been revealed and reach a judgment on it; it is a matter for the police to determine.”
“I entirely share my right hon. Friend’s admiration for the BBC, which at its best is the finest broadcaster in the world. That is what makes these revelations so painful: that an institution that we all admire should be found capable of such appalling failings. I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend; our intention is to restore trust in the BBC, certainly not in any way to diminish it as one of our great national assets.”
“I am sure that I speak for the Secretary of State in saying that it is not a question of punishing the BBC—particularly for events that happened a long time ago, as the hon. Gentleman says—but it is essential that we learn the lessons from what happened then. As I said, we have already put significant changes in place since those episodes occurred, but we need to be absolutely certain that the current governance arrangements are effective and that these appalling incidents could not have happened if they had been in place.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right that one of the great challenges that the BBC faces is to reconnect with the people he represents. There is a widespread feeling that the BBC is too metropolitan-centred and has lost touch with the views of a large part of the British population; I think that the BBC itself recognises that. With regard to subscription, the licence fee is in place until 2027 when the current charter expires, but there is bound to be a debate about the future funding. Moving fully to a subscription model would require quite significant changes to the way in which people receive their television, but I have no doubt that that is a debate that has already started and will continue.”
“The BBC is committed to impartiality in its coverage of all political events, including the referendum in Scotland and the current political debate. It is very important that the independence of the BBC is defended and that it resists political pressure from political parties in Scotland, be it the SNP or indeed some new offshoot from it.”
“The mid-term review is about the governance of the BBC and the new arrangements which were put in place. It will certainly incorporate a consideration of the culture to ensure that the BBC, in its present form, is delivering on its public purposes. It is a mid-term review of the existing charter. There will be an opportunity for a more fundamental examination of every aspect of the BBC, including its funding, when we come to the renewal of the charter, but that is still not until 2027.”
“As I said, the Government very much hope that the new governance arrangements now in place are sufficient, but the purpose of the mid-term review is to assess that and see whether any further changes need to be made. With regard to the contribution of the BBC to the economy of this country and to democratic debate, I entirely share the hon. Gentleman’s view that the BBC plays a central part in both.”
“I am pleased to hear what my hon. Friend says about the high standards that pertained when he was working for the BBC. Obviously, that is something we hope will represent the BBC’s values in future. In terms of the leadership and management, the review which has been conducted by the BBC into the specific lessons to be learned from Lord Dyson’s report will feed into the wider reform agenda, which I think the board is determined to pursue. There is no question that there is a problem with culture at the BBC which goes beyond just the failings identified by Lord Dyson. I can assure my hon. Friend that that is something the leadership of the BBC does now recognise and is working hard to address.”
“The hon. Gentleman was doing fine until the end. This is a more serious matter. I certainly agree with him about the distress that has been caused to the royal family, which has been very powerfully expressed by His Royal Highness Prince William. That is something that the BBC recognises, which is why it is acting to address it. I can only repeat what I have said already: the trust in the BBC is one of its greatest assets and the BBC now has to work hard to restore that.”
“I can answer my right hon. Friend by saying that I am one of the people he has described precisely, in all three of those measures, and I, too, have occasionally been concerned at what appeared to be a lack of impartiality in the BBC on some of those issues. That is something that has been, I think, felt by a large number of people. It is the job of the BBC—as I say, it is the first public purpose of the BBC—to deliver impartiality. I know that that is something that the leadership of the BBC which is now in place is absolutely committed to, but it will be examining ways in which that can be strengthened where necessary.”
“The Government have no intention of imposing greater control over the leadership of the BBC. The BBC is independent and we are committed to respecting and strengthening that independence, When it comes to the question of governmental responsibility, it is not a devolved matter; the BBC is a national broadcaster covering the whole of the United Kingdom, so we believe that it is right that it remains the responsibility of the UK Government as a whole.”
“As my hon. Friend knows, the mid-term review was not actually due to take place until next year; it was written into the charter that it should be in 2022. We would almost certainly have started thinking about the issues to be considered and the questions needing to be addressed in any case, but this issue has made that more urgent, and the Secretary of State has it made clear that we are starting work on it now. Precisely how the mid-term review will operate and whether we will invite external submissions is not yet determined, but I will certainly try to ensure that my hon. Friend is the first to know when we have further announcements to make.”
“I can tell the hon. Gentleman that a lot of the incidents he mentioned took place before the new governance arrangements were in place, but we obviously need to consider whether there are lessons to be learned from those incidents for our mid-term review. If that journalist’s tweets regarding Israel and Palestine are shown to be genuine, it is my view that anybody who can express such opinions should not be employed by the BBC.”
“Under UK law, personal data can currently flow freely from the UK to the EU. The trade agreement also ensures the continued temporary free flow of personal data from the EU to the UK until adequacy decisions are adopted. The European Commission published positive draft adequacy decisions on 19 February and we expect the EU to complete the technical approval process soon.”
“As I say, the EU Commission has already provided an assessment of the UK’s data protection laws, which found us to be adequate, and there is absolutely no reason why that should not be confirmed once the processes are under way. However, we have said that it is sensible for businesses to make contingency plans by putting alternative transfer mechanisms in place, just in case there comes a point at some future date, but we expect adequacy to be granted within the timescale permitted.”
“The national lottery is a national treasure that enhances the cultural and sporting lives of millions of people across the UK, and it has funded over £1 billion in projects supporting the response to covid-19. The Gambling Commission is running the competition for the next licence and is following best practice from across the public sector for competitions of this nature.”
“I am aware that my hon. Friend is a huge fan of Consett AFC, and of course he and his fellow fans are very excited about this historic match, which is due to take place at Wembley. We are working to try to get spectators back into stadiums as soon as possible. I fully understand his disappointment that it does not look as if it will be possible in time for the match, but I have no doubt that he and thousands of others will be cheering on his team from their sofas.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right about the importance of the national lottery. Indeed, I point out that his constituency has received over £6 million in funding over the last five years. Which applicant should take on the franchise is determined by the Gambling Commission, and of course it will want to be satisfied that the successful applicant meets the highest standards of probity and integrity, but it is a matter for the Gambling Commission.”
“Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) that that includes nightclubs and music venues, which have been eligible for support. As many Members have recognised, our cultural and entertainment sectors are world-leading. They are a major contributor not just to the economic growth of this country but to our standing around the world. I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Ben Everitt): I am confident that when we resume, those sectors will come back even stronger.”