Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“The Chief Constable has serious questions to answer about the processes that were used in this instance to deal with those two officers, who are just starting out in their career at the lowest level of employment in the police. We need to be very careful before we start talking about wrecking people's career or destroying people's life. When politicians rise up on their hind legs and start talking in the way that I have heard here, that is dangerous not just to individuals but to collective community confidence in the police. <BR /> <BR />I encourage the ombudsman to go about her work and get the report and the findings, but, as Mr Buchanan said, let us not have trial by social media, because that would be a very dangerous route to go down.”
“We need to be aware of that. I have listened to the contributions from some Members, and I think that we are going down a dangerous road with regard to undermining support for the police in the community. Therefore, it is important that, as we were told by the leader of the SDLP last week, we "dial down the rhetoric". He should take his own advice with regard to some of that which has been said about the police.”
“Speaking as someone who comes from Ballynafeigh, was reared on the Ormeau Road and knows the area well, I know that the massacre at Sean Graham bookmakers cast a very long shadow, one that still exists, over the community there. Alongside you, Mr Speaker, I represented the area on the council. I know the pain and suffering that was inflicted upon innocent people on that occasion. <BR /> <BR />This incident demonstrates the danger of our making rules and then charging the police with enforcing them. I listened to some of the contributions from the other side of the House. Who could believe that some of those who spoke were the biggest advocates and cheerleaders for the draconian measures that we have imposed upon people? If we are going to pass those regulations and rules, it then falls to the police to enforce them.”
“As things stand, I would be happy with a question simply being answered. I have tabled several questions to the Minister of Health relating to the public health emergency that we are in, and I am still waiting for answers to them. Will you use your good office to impress upon not only the Health Minister but all Ministers the need to answer questions that Members have tabled promptly and without delay?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Standing Order 19 relates to questions. Section 5 of said Standing Order states:”
“The Minister talked in an earlier answer about areas scarred by the conflict, and he is absolutely right. One of the ways in which that manifests itself is in physical dereliction. Can the Minister outline what percentage of the coming programme is likely to be devoted to capital works? I ask because that is one of the ways in which these programmes can leave a real lasting legacy in local communities: when people see bricks and mortar and physical improvements in the areas in which they live.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. He is absolutely right about the need to scrutinise and ensure that public money is spent sensibly. One area of the economy that has been devastated by the coronavirus outbreak is that of travel agency. Will the Minister outline what steps he and the Executive will be taking to aid travel agents, who have suffered so much over the past 12 months?”
“That is enough chuntering, Mr McGrath. <BR /> <BR />At this time, people need to be given hope and a sense that we are coming towards the end of this situation. Will the deputy First Minister outline what the Executive's communication strategy will be to give people a bit of encouragement?”
“Yesterday was my birthday. As you can tell by the look of me, it was a hard paper round — I am only 38”
“What happened at the weekend was disgraceful, and those responsible should be rightly condemned on the Floor of this House. I am sure that all Members will agree with me in that regard. <BR /> <BR />It is particularly galling that the building that was attacked was being used to benefit the community through the delivery of food parcels to vulnerable people who are struggling at this very difficult time in the middle of a pandemic. Therefore, I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for allowing us the opportunity to place on the record of this House our revulsion, our disgust and our absolute condemnation of those responsible for this heinous criminal act.”
“I thank the Member from West Belfast Mr Carroll for bringing this issue before the House and, thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing the House to discuss the matter. <BR /> <BR />Since 2005, it has been my great privilege to represent Donegall Pass, first as a member of Belfast City Council serving alongside you, Mr Speaker, and then, latterly, as an Assembly Member. The people responsible for this disgraceful attack do not speak for the community of Donegall Pass or the people who live there. We are very fortunate, in South Belfast, to be the most diverse constituency in Northern Ireland. People from every background, religion and nationality choose to make their home in South Belfast and contribute to the society and general amenity of that constituency by their presence.”
“I will not get an extra minute, so I am sorry. The Member did not give way to me when I asked her. <BR /> <BR />It is interesting to note that the consent protections that were initially envisaged in the deal have been removed. At whose behest were the consent protections, which meant that the Assembly would have had a direct say on the operation of the protocol, removed? Alliance, Sinn Féin and the SDLP. The principle of dual consent applies only when it runs contrary to unionist positions but not in other circumstances. People can see the opportunism and the cynicism at the heart of that position.”
“My aspirations are just as legitimate as those of Members across the way, whether they consider themselves to be nationalist, European, Irish or whatever. I will not have the community that I come from and its aspirations delegitimised, as has been attempted during the debate. We are British, and we want Northern Ireland to stay within the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />I say to the Prime Minister that we do not and will not consent to the provisions of the protocol, because it damages the integrity of the United Kingdom. He should be in no doubt that what he has done is wrong and that it is wrong for any unionist, so called, to endorse the provisions. It is interesting as well —.”
“It is a source of profound regret to me that it is the Conservative and Unionist Party that is bringing in those provisions. <BR /> <BR />The hypocrisy that has been demonstrated by some contributions has been remarkable. To be lectured about British exceptionalism by a party whose name literally translates as "Ourselves Alone" is remarkable. To be accused of engaging in British exceptionalism from that source is just incredible. I thought that it was interesting in one of the contributions that — I raised this — Irish, Scottish and Welsh people were referred to but people like me — British people in Northern Ireland — were excluded. That is demonstrative of a mindset that we have seen over recent days. <BR /> <BR />I am British. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and I will do everything in my power to keep it that way.”
“I am a good European, and that is why I believe in independent, sovereign, self-governing states that are responsible for their own money, their own laws and how they run their own country. The concept of being European is a lot older than a failing supranational structure like the European Union. <BR /> <BR />When we joined the European Union in 1972 and it was reaffirmed in 1975, it accounted for almost 30% of world trade; today, it is less than half that figure. The European Union is not some miracle cure for our economic ills; it is a declining market. Our future lies in expanding markets and improving trade with the rest of the world. The protocol's provisions are not helpful to local business. That has been acknowledged.”
“Unfortunately, the deal does that. It reimposes bureaucracy on us and reimposes the frontiers of the state. It is not fair to say that only one or two parties in the Chamber are responsible for this: three parties have spent the past four years demanding those provisions and a border up the Irish Sea in order to prevent checks on the land. Alliance, the SDLP and Sinn Féin own the provisions of the protocol. We all remember the trips to Brussels, going in and out of Barnier's office and saying, "We are campaigning and lobbying". You campaigned for this, you delivered it and you own it — not us. <BR /> <BR />I believe fundamentally that the case for leaving the European Union is a sound one.”
“Just as others have quoted Churchill, I am afraid that — ah, Mr Carroll is back. That is excellent, because I am going to ruin his Wednesday by quoting Margaret Thatcher at him. In her 1988 Bruges speech, Margaret Thatcher said:”
“I am grateful to Mr Allister for giving way. Earlier in the debate, we were told the collective noun for turkeys. I looked it up: apparently, the collective noun for hypocrites is a congregation.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. Having opposed entry into the Common Market and having opposed the Single European Act, having opposed the Maastricht Treaty, having opposed the Lisbon Treaty, having opposed the European Constitution and having opposed every single European treaty that created the EU, does my friend agree that it is rank hypocrisy for Sinn Féin to now pose as defenders of the European Union?”
“I asked Mrs Mallon to give way, but she chose not to. Mrs Mallon referred to "Scottish people, Welsh people and Irish people": does my friend think it is telling that she could not find it within her to refer to "British people"? What does that say about her vision of the future?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Would he agree with me that, when we refer to the Belfast Agreement, some Members see it as the law of the Medes and the Persians: cast in stone and irrevocable? That is all well and good until it comes to the principle of dual consent. Apparently, those who have argued for dual consent in this place for 30 years now suddenly believe in majorities getting their own way.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This will be the second time, and it should go on the record that Ms Bradshaw has been very reasonable with the House, but, as a constituency colleague and as it is an issue that affects my constituency, I am very keen that this matter is taken as an Adjournment debate at the most early and convenient opportunity.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Earlier, the phrase that people "should hang their heads in shame" was used. As far back as 2017, the stated position of the UK Government was that any EU citizen residing in the UK would have the absolute freedom to remain in the UK. That statement was made by Theresa May in 2017. Does the Minister agree with me that what is shameful is frightening people who have come here, made their home here and are making a very positive and valuable contribution to society here?”
“— and I have every confidence that that will continue into the future, unless the belligerence of the EU prevents it.”
“I suggest that the Member take that up with his party's Minister in the Executive. I am sure that she will be able to raise the issue for him. If you are going to stand up and criticise the Executive, at least acknowledge the fact that you are in it. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to worries about freedom of movement of people, I will say that the common travel area existed before either the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom was a member state of the European Union —”
“If we can deliver the funds directly and more speedily to bring more benefit to local communities, that will be an improvement on the present situation. I hope that everyone will accept that.”
“Let us not convince ourselves that the decision to leave the European Union will reduce us to beggary, because that is simply not true. <BR /> <BR />I would also welcome further details of and more information on the shared prosperity fund. It is important that the Government at Westminster provide that information, because it is essential that groups know how to apply for funding, how to access it and what the conditions will be for spending it. Again, I am speaking from experience, but it would be good if our community groups were not laden with the burden of regulation and monitoring that was imposed on many of them in order to receive European Union funding. If people are engaged in community work and practice, they should be doing that and not constantly filling in monitoring forms.”
“Thank you, sir. <BR /> <BR />Yes, I absolutely agree with that. In my experience, one of the problems that those groups always identified was the three-year funding cycle. It takes a year to get a project up and running. It then takes a year to have the time to deliver the project. The next year is spent trying to source the funding to keep the project going. That was a consistent problem with programmes that were being delivered by the European Union. <BR /> <BR />Another problem was that funding was diminishing. There is no point in denying that. With new member states joining the European Union that were in greater need of investment than we were, the money was inevitably moving from the west of Europe to the east, and particularly to the former Soviet bloc and Warsaw Pact countries.”
“Everyone in these islands is embraced under the aegis of the British-Irish Council, and the common frameworks will be the practical way in which the outworkings of this situation are applied. As a Committee, we might want to investigate that. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge and accept the concerns that have been put on record in relation to funding issues. As I said in my intervention, I worked for three years for a Member of the European Parliament. One of the areas that I worked in was helping groups to access funds, including by helping them to fill in funding applications to get those funds drawn down.”
“People need to be better informed of the approaches that not only the devolved Government here at Stormont but the national Government at Westminster intend to take. Communication could be improved. <BR /> <BR />As mentioned by the Member who spoke previously, one of the areas that the Committee has been examining is that of common frameworks. It could be a new role for the British-Irish Council (BIC) to oversee the implementation of common frameworks and how they operate within these islands. Up to now, the British-Irish Council has not really had a very significant role. Maybe the Government here could take that forward. BIC incorporates not only the four UK nations but the Crown dependencies, the Isle of Man and, obviously, the Government of the Republic of Ireland.”
“There is an irony in this: we will all tear the back out of each other over Brexit, but we will all vote to pass the motion anyway. I suppose that that is just the nature of what the debate has become. At this time of feasting, it is not surprising to be served up the latest course of misery by the Chairman of the Committee, although I do not think that we will choose to swallow it on this occasion. <BR /> <BR />Speaking as a former councillor and someone who served for 11 years on Belfast City Council, I very much appreciate the effort and time that the various councils put in to presenting evidence to our Committee. It was welcome participation from the 11 councils, and they made useful contributions. I absolutely agree with some of the themes raised by Members thus far. Communication has been poor.”
“As far back as 2004, the direction of funding in Europe was moving away from western Europe towards eastern Europe. Everyone could recognise that the funds coming to this part of the United Kingdom and to countries in the west of Europe as a whole were of a diminishing value.”
“I am grateful to my friend for giving way. I worked for Mr Allister when he was a Member of the European Parliament between 2004 and 2007.”
“I would never want to be one to accuse the Chairman of the Committee of engaging in hyperbole. However, apparently, those of us who advocated Brexit should have had the vision to know that COVID-19 was coming down the line and that it would make the outcome of the referendum worse. I have many talents, but not the gift of such foresight. Even at DUP headquarters, we do not have a crystal ball.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. Does he acknowledge that, for 90% of the time that it was a member of European Union and its predecessor organisations, the United Kingdom was a net contributor to the funds of the European Union?”
“At least 15 presidents of the United States of America can trace their family back to the province of Ulster. The migration of Ulster Scots down the Shenandoah valley had a huge influence, particularly in shaping the development of country music. How does the Minister's Department intend to tap into not only the huge diaspora that exists in the United States but into the interest in music and the arts as a means of marketing Northern Ireland as a tourism destination?”
“In the midst of all the suffering that has taken place in the wider economy, one sector — the big multinational supermarket chains — has done very well out of things. When the money is brought back to the centre, will the Minister commit to re-profiling it in order to further help small businesses in the community?”
“Will churches be able to apply for support from the fund? The Minister knows that, whether it is uniformed youth organisations, mother and toddler groups — you name it — if the state were to pay churches for the work that they do, it could not afford it. Will churches be able to avail themselves of that scheme as well?”
“Since 1998, the founding principle of how this place is governed is that of parallel consent. I invite my Rt Hon friend the First Minister to state to the House and the wider public that the unionist people do not consent to the provisions of this protocol. Will she agree with me that the preparedness of the Government to use article 16 in the national interest will demonstrate to us all just how unionist the Conservative and Unionist Party actually is?”
“Anyone who argues otherwise is being disingenuous — I am not suggesting it for one second; I am mindful of your ruling, sir — or economically illiterate. It is therefore for them to justify that argument. I will be clear: of course a trade deal would be preferable, but it must be on favourable terms for the United Kingdom. If the Prime Minister is not in a position to secure those favourable terms, then sometimes, in a negotiation, the answer has to be no.”
“When a person stands up and says that having a regulatory border up the inside of the Irish Sea or placing barriers to trade from Northern Ireland businesses is a good thing for our people, it is for that person to justify how that is so, because it evidently is not.”
“Nevertheless, it is a fundamental right of any country to make its own arrangements for the regulation of its own trade and internal markets, and it is baffling to me that any Government, least of all a Conservative and Unionist Government, should hand away that right. <BR /> <BR />Far from being helpful to Northern Ireland businesses or providing the best of both worlds, the provisions in the protocol will be a hindrance to businesses in Northern Ireland. The Chair of the Economy Committee, or the Member for East Londonderry, referred to other parties in the Chamber — by which, I presume, she meant my party and two thirds of the Ulster Unionists who supported Leave as well — as not acting in the interests of the people.”
“I have no intention of repeating the arguments that were aired at the time of the referendum, other than to say that every citizen of the United Kingdom had an equal say and an equal vote in that referendum, whether they were a citizen in John o'Groats or Land's End, in Strabane or London. Each citizen of this country had an equal say, and the country, as a whole, made the decision to leave the European Union. I believe that it was the right decision to leave the European Union. <BR /> <BR />I welcome some of the clarity that has been provided over recent weeks, and there has clearly been improvement in the situation vis-à-vis Northern Ireland.”
“The Member will be quoting Hugo Chávez or Fidel Castro at us at some point, I have no doubt.”
“We also need reform of how we do procurement, which can be one way in which the Government can assist business. Reforming how we do procurement is something we should consider. I hope that the Minister will be able to speak to that. However, let us be realistic. The best thing we can do for our economy and the prosperity of our people is to let them get back to work.”
“I also welcome the clarification that she gave — that that will be paid to individuals, not households — because we know that, in the context of this pandemic, instances of domestic abuse and coercive control have increased. I do not want a Government scheme that is designed to help businesses to be used by people who abuse their loved ones, or the people whom they claim to love. The Minister sought £390 million, and she received one third of that. When Members stand up and tell the Minister, "We need to do this, that and the other", they also need to be honest about the resource that is available. <BR /> <BR />I move on to some of the issues that have been raised. We need investment in our infrastructure, particularly to the west of the Province.”
“At the present time, the people who are being clobbered the most by the restrictions in place are those who can least afford it. I said this in a previous debate. It is well and good for people with the letters MLA after their name, sitting in a palace on top of a big hill in Belfast, to tell people that they cannot go to work, but that has serious impacts. As I said in my intervention to the Chair of the Economy Committee, around this time of year, people on low incomes are often forced into the hands of moneylenders and loan sharks. I prophesy that it will be 10 times worse this year, because people have had their capacity to earn removed from them. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the development of the voucher scheme that the Minister announced.”
“The Second World War ended in 1945. I think we finished paying off the debt for it in something like 2010. This investment, or this borrowing, will need to be paid back, and it will be paid back not just by me, but by my children and probably, if God spares us and blesses us with them, my grandchildren as well. It is important that people in elected office are cognisant of the fact that this is not talking telephone numbers. This is real money that will have to be paid back. We are running up a massive national debt. <BR /> <BR />The report that has been produced is a useful resource and gives us lots of useful information. I will talk about where we are at for a few moments, before I talk about where we should be going.”
“Thank you, sir. I absolutely agree that the development of sound economic policy is important, but there also needs to be a realisation that sound money is important. When we are talking about pumping billions into the economy to sustain jobs and businesses throughout the pandemic, there needs to be a realisation that that money will have to be paid back.”
“When Members rise to their feet and say, "We want to invest in this project", "We want to re-profile this element of the economy" or, "We need to be doing x, y or z", they must remember that we can pay for those things only if we have a thriving economy. The best way in which to get to there is through the quickest opening-up of our economy as possible, within the bounds of safety — I understand that — in order to allow our people to get back to work, to earn and to spend in the economy.”