Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“It is all well and good for Members sometimes to stand up in the Chamber and rhyme off a shopping list of things that they think that the Government should do. It is all very admirable and laudable, but we have to be realistic about the role of government and what it can do. We can all play fantasy by directing business to do this or do that, but, in many cases, the best thing that government can do for business is to get out of the way and let businesses get on with the job of creating jobs and investment. It has been really frustrating — not from all members of the Economy Committee, I hope — to hear the idea that the economy is some sort of abstract construct that exists independent of everything else. The economy is everything. It pays for everything.”
“Ronald Reagan said that, when put together:”
“I am grateful to the Chair of the Committee for giving way. At this time of year especially, I think that this is relevant. One of the things that has concerned me greatly is that lower-paid workers who are being told that they are not allowed to go to work are struggling to pay for Christmas for their kids. The direct consequence of them not being allowed to go to work will be to push them into the arms of loan sharks and moneylenders, and that has a huge societal impact. Would the Member care to talk to that for a few seconds?”
“I declare an interest as a past pupil of Nettlefield Primary School. I am grateful to the Minister for his answer. The Minister knows that this is a unique building. I think that it is a listed building, which complicates the process of making improvements to it. The Minister has seen the state of some of the rotten window frames and the general poor state of some parts of that building. Please, will he do everything in his power to process this as quickly as possible and get the work carried out? The school really needs it.”
“I associate myself with the comments of Mr Aiken, although I would not dare to guess which birthday Mr Dickson is celebrating. I would not wish to offend — or compliment — him by making a guess. <BR /> <BR />The scale of the challenge that the Minister faces in stimulating the economy is reflected in the fact that she put in a bid for £390 million and received roughly a third of that from the Finance Minister. It is not real money in the sense of the economy generating new money; it is government money that will, ultimately, have to be paid back. <BR /> <BR />Can the Minister commit to using her influence and power in the Executive to push for the fastest easing of restrictions on economic activity that safety will allow? It is essential that people be allowed to get back to work.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. There are conventions and practices, sir, on the answering of questions tabled by Members. On 2 November, I tabled a question to the Minister of Health, asking him which procedures, other than cancer and heart operations, have been postponed for patients as a consequence of the pandemic. It is now 7 December. Can you guide me as to how I can get a timely answer from a Minister to a very important question?”
“The Chair of the Health Committee touched on the most crucial issue here: that people have absolute confidence that their data will be secure and only used responsibly. Does he agree that it is really important that we have the list of the organisations that will have access to people's sensitive medical data so that they know exactly what the situation is that confronts them?”
“The contents of the Internal Market Bill represent a "backstop to the backstop", to use a phrase. Given the reaction that there has been to the content of the Internal Market Bill, does it not expose just how false the claim that "best endeavours would be used" has proven to be? By what torturous logic does the deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland say that a proposal that cuts Northern Ireland business off from its largest market represents a good outcome for us?”
“Hopefully, the Member will find this helpful. The Member will know that, when organisations such as the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Church of Ireland and church groups advertise for paid posts in places like church house or church headquarters, they put in their adverts phraseology such as, "The applicant should agree with the ethos and identity of the potential employer". I am just trying to be helpful with that suggestion.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. The Member is right to note the massive progress that has been made through not only the contribution that Northern Ireland has made but through the contribution, more generally, throughout the West. Does the Member agree that it cannot be right that there are countries in the world that are still building coal-fired power stations?”
“My question is on the point that the Economy Minister has just made. In questions to the Finance Minister on his statement, I asked how much money the Economy Minister had bid for. I heard a figure in excess of £300 million, but, when I checked the BBC website, I saw that it was recorded as £190 million. Can my colleague confirm that she submitted a bid in excess of £300 million and has received from the Finance Minister £137 million?”
“I have seen the annexe with the figure given for the Department for the Economy's allocation of £137·7 million. My colleague from North Antrim Mr Frew asked a question that was not answered. I ask the Minister: what was the total amount requested for the Department for the Economy?”
“This has become a pattern, Mr Speaker. The last time the House was warned about that, I was called.”
“I welcome the fact that the legislation is due to come forward in December. Every person should be free from stalking or harassment. The Minister will know that a crucial element of any such propositions that make their way to the statute book is having a sufficient budget available to allow speedy access to justice. Has the Department estimated what the financial requirement will be to ensure the implementation of this welcome legislation?”
“Does the Minister agree that, if we were to follow the logic of the Member for West Belfast of permanent or semi-permanent lockdown, that would make it more and more difficult to revive those jobs once we come out of the crisis?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. On that point, the Member from West Belfast talks about giving money to businesses. Businesses do not exist in isolation; they are made up of people. They provide jobs for people that those people will have to go back to.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. The Member talks about raising people's rates, but can I outline a scenario for him? The Member will know that in my constituency there are places such as Stranmillis, where people bought their houses 40 or 50 years ago. They are now pensioners who may be asset-rich but who are cash-poor. If he places them in the bracket of the wealthy, how does he intend to extract the money from them? Will they be forced to sell their homes?”
“The First Minister will know that one of the key areas of growth in the Northern Ireland economy over recent times has been in the creative industries. Can she provide an update on the work of the British-Irish Council in expanding creative industries across these regions?”
“There was criticism of the health service. We all know that, as things stand and without reform, the Department of Health will consume more and more of the block grant. It already consumes over £50 of every £100 that the Government have. Once this is out of the way, we will all have to be courageous. When Mr Swann became Health Minister, one of the things that I said was that he should be given political cover to take through the Bengoa recommendations. The easiest thing for him to do would be to say, "I need more money", and the easiest thing for the other parties to do would be to say, "We need health reform". We need to be brave and not allow parochial or sectional interest in that area.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the issues on which I absolutely agree with Mr Allister is the cancellation of medical procedures. I am sure that we all have constituents who have had medical procedures cancelled or delayed. That is devastating for people. The mother of a girl I grew up with went to hospital in March complaining of pains in her stomach. They thought that it might be her gallbladder, but it turned it that it was stomach cancer. It is all well and good for us to have abstract conversations, but there are real people suffering real effects. That is why it is important that we move as quickly as possible to give our people the capacity to earn and support themselves and to give our Government the capacity, through rates and taxes, to deliver public services and reform. <BR /> <BR />I will finish on this point.”
“I want to ask a question. I do not know whether the Minister can tell me the answer; if he cannot, that is fair enough. It would be useful for people to know what the R number is currently. I was not in the Chamber for the entirety of the debate, so I do not know whether it has been put into the public domain, but it would be useful for people to know it. We knew that it was well above 1. If we are aiming towards a goal and the Minister was in a position to tell us that it has fallen from where we thought it was and will keep falling if we do X, it would give people something to aim for. That has been one of the problems, and, as I said earlier, I do not envy Ministers. As the situation has evolved so quickly, and because the regulations have had to be amended almost weekly, there is confusion out there. I am sure that people accept that.”
“That is the difference. You can pass motions, as the Member's party is wont to do on Belfast City Council, that are a form of words or you can actually use the levers of government to act. The best way in which to act is to get the economy open as quickly as possible, because — I said this in March — the cost of all of this is immense. We are running up huge debts that my children, and possibly their children, will be paying off as a consequence. There is no such thing as free money. This has to be paid back, and therefore, for the good of people, I am pleased that relaxations have been announced for the economy and to allow people to get back to work. I urge the Executive to move as quickly as possible in that direction, because people need to be allowed to live, allowed to earn and allowed to support their family.”
“It is therefore easy for us to stand up, as the previous contributor did, and say "Lock it down, lock it down, lock it down". It is not us who will be damaged economically by a loss of income through taking that approach. It is easy for us to sit in a big white house on top of a big hill in Belfast and tell people, "You cannot go to work".”
“We have a Chief Medical Officer and a Chief Scientific Adviser who are paid to give advice, but, as this progresses, I hope that there is a preparedness perhaps to look outside government and to take advice and to listen to other, contrary opinions. <BR /> <BR />I want to speak about the hospitality sector in particular. For many people, the sector provides a second job, and those few pounds that were coming in through that second job were perhaps going to pay for Christmas, the kids' school uniforms and other such things. The longer that those jobs are not accessible, the more that devastation and hardship is being heaped upon people. I am also mindful of the fact that, although we are making decisions, the income of no one in this Chamber will be affected by the decisions that are made here, because we are public-sector workers.”
“After listening to Mr Carroll, it is probably important for me to note that pennies do not fall from heaven. They have to be earned here on earth, and the economy pays for everything that government can do. Without a strong and thriving economy, government cannot exist and the services that we want to provide for our people do not exist. Only the most economically illiterate would attempt to assert that we should continue to keep vast swathes of our economy under lockdown. <BR /> <BR />I do not envy Ministers. At the start of this year, no one had heard of COVID, so they have been dealing with an extremely fluid and evolving situation. They have to take advice.”
“Is that 'The Arrival of the Queen of Sheba'?”
“Does the Member agree that, going forward, a much more robust interrogation of contrasting and competing points of view on these matters will be called for in order to ensure public confidence?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. What he is saying and the argument that he is driving at remind me of Harold Macmillan's maxim:”
“We have special linkages, and this has been an immense democratic exercise in terms of turnout and the levels of support that both main candidates, from the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, have secured. We have always had influence and relations, and it is important to build on that. That will be achieved if we all work to adopt a positive working relationship, regardless of who holds the office of president. It is no good being pro-American simply because your favourite candidate has prevailed.”
“The candidate whom he defeated, outgoing President Trump, secured the second-greatest number of votes cast for any candidate in US history. Traditional barriers have been broken down in the election, and it is a welcome development that someone of Indian and African heritage is to be elected vice president of the United States. The cruel racism of the 1950s and 1960s that was apparent on the streets, particularly on the streets of southern America, is slowly but surely being confined to the past, and that is a welcome development. I welcome the progress that the world's strongest democracy is making, as we all should. <BR /> <BR />I have said that good relations are important.”
“It is important that we recognise that this is an internal matter for the people of the United States of America. While it is true that they have made their choice, it is our responsibility to work closely with whoever is in office because Northern Ireland benefits from our relationship with the United States. Indeed, a quarter of the people who have held the office of president can trace their family directly back to Ulster and this part of the island. That relationship is welcome because it allows us, a country of a mere 1·8 million people, to punch way above our weight with regard to influence on Capitol Hill. <BR /> <BR />President-elect Biden secured the greatest number of votes cast for any candidate in history.”
“It was encouraging to hear the deputy First Minister say that she will extend an invitation and looks forward to welcoming the new president. I can recall an occasion when a previous president, George W Bush, visited Northern Ireland, and, as her predecessor was welcoming him to Stormont Castle, Sinn Féin activists were protesting on the streets about his presence on this estate, such is the double-faced standard that exists. <BR /> <BR />Regardless of who holds the office of president of the United States, relations between Northern Ireland and the United States of America are important. Unlike other Members, I do not stand on platforms and denounce America as a force for evil in the world, because I do not believe that it is. I believe that America is a force for good in the world.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way, and I thank her for her remarks. The Member will be aware that this Bill is from the Department for Communities, but the Department of Health should be working in conjunction with that Department. We were informed some time ago that there was to be a public consultation on minimum unit pricing for alcohol. Does she agree that it is disappointing that that conversation has not started yet?”
“<BR /> <BR />This is a positive measure, allowing credit unions and other organisations to undertake their important work and further protecting them during these difficult times. I say on behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party that we support the measures.”
“I support the statutory rule that the Minister has brought forward. This represents just the latest example of the suite of measures that her Department has undertaken to support credit unions and mutual organisations during this difficult time. I declare an interest, as I am a member of a credit union. Those of us who know the credit union movement know the valuable and very important work that it undertakes in our communities. For many people, it is the credit union movement that provides access to the credit that they would not get through banks or other lenders. I am pleased that the Minister has moved to protect the credit union sector throughout the pandemic.”
“Like me, the Minister is from inner-city Belfast, and she knows that an insidious combination of private landlordism and overdevelopment is destroying the character of many of the communities in the inner city. Specifically in my constituency, I think of places such as the Woodstock Road, the Ravenhill Road, the Holylands, the Market, Sandy Row and Donegall Pass. Private landlordism is destroying the character of those communities, and, on the other side of that, they are being eaten away by overdevelopment and by the promotion of developments that local people simply cannot afford to live in. How can the Minister assure those communities that this policy statement will address those issues?”
“Will the deputy First Minster assure the House that co-design of every stage of delivery will be at the heart of this restorative scheme? It is so important that we carry people with us. Secondly, can she give the House an update on where we are with the financial scheme in respect of compensation, specifically the contributions required from institutions?”
“Will my Rt Hon friend resist, absolutely, any attempt by the Executive to extend the closure of our schools? It is crucial that our children and young people have access to their education.”
“First, I thank my Rt Hon friend for her statement. It is important that the health messaging was not undermined by my Rt Hon friend at any point. She has striven valiantly to do her best throughout this crisis. Others, including a signatory to the statement, had a hand in undermining public confidence in the health messaging. The measures that have been announced will impact on the lowest paid, particularly in the hospitality sector. Can she give me further information about that? <BR /> <BR />Further, yesterday's 'News Letter' editorial stated:”
“Unlike the Member, I was elected by the people of South Belfast”
“<BR /> <BR />I want the best outcome for my constituents, and the best outcome for them will be secured through free trade and access to the largest market to which we have access: the GB market. If Mr Dickson wants to shake his head to a statement of obvious fact, that is for him, but, much like the Remainers that we have seen during and since the referendum, he cannot hold back the tide for ever.”
“<BR /> <BR />Those who are beholden to the Northern Ireland protocol ignore the existential threat to household prosperity that it will cause. Why? Because their fealty to the idea of the European Union is more important to them than the wealth and prosperity of their constituents. They are still fighting the battle of 2016, which they lost, and they cannot accept that. They are determined almost to try to punish the country for having the temerity to leave the European Union. Some elected people who are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents want to see them actively punished for daring to vote to leave the mighty European Union. Well, that is for them to justify.”
“The people elected, in a UK-wide referendum and in a free and fair contest, and they made their decision. What followed was four years of foot-dragging by a Remain vanguard that dragged the country through the courts and kept it going through this psychodrama because they were not prepared to accept the outcome of the referendum and did everything in their power to quash that outcome. <BR /> <BR />As has been said, we are now 80 days away from seeing that outcome fulfilled. I support the content of the Internal Market Bill because I want the best for my constituents. I do not want trade barriers up the middle of our country. For anyone who defends the protocol, that is precisely what you want and precisely what you will deliver for your constituents.”
“From John o'Groats to Land's End, from London to Strabane, every citizen of the United Kingdom had an equal vote and an equal say in that referendum, and the people elected to leave the European Union, including a majority in the constituency of East Antrim, Mr Dickson”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />Dragging us out of the European Union? Every citizen of the United Kingdom had an equal vote.”
“Dragging us out of the European Union? It is called a democratic referendum.”
“I am happy to give way if the Member wants me to.”
“No elected Member of the House should have the brass neck or the gall to face local businesses and tell them that they are defending their interests whilst simultaneously supporting a measure that puts a blockage on the biggest market that Northern Ireland has — the GB market. It is a fallacy to say that you are supporting local business whilst, at the same time, supporting barriers to local business. No matter how often the Members stand on their feet and repeat the lines over and over, it will not make them true. The protocol is bad for Northern Ireland business because it hives us off”
“Here is the thing: we are not in that club any more. Europe cannot require anything of us that we choose not to give it, and I think that the country is better off for that. No longer will people whom we did not elect be making the laws that govern us, dictating to us how to conduct trade or ruling our lives. <BR /> <BR />This protocol is bad for Northern Ireland. It is bad for Northern Ireland business, and, no matter how much the Member for East Antrim shakes his head, that is the reality. No person can stand on their feet and say that they are defending their constituents' best interests if, at the same time, they support the protocol.”
“This is becoming a bit of a pattern. This is now, I think, the fourth week in which we have been discussing something related to the Brexit process. Having gone through four years of Remainer hissy fits, a few more motions in front of the Northern Ireland Assembly are hardly to be feared, but I do think that this does the House a disservice. I have in front of me the speaking notes from the last motion on this, and Members could probably simply read out the same speech that they delivered last week and just put that into Hansard again. So repetitious has the argument become that I think this particular horse has been flogged as much as it can stand. However, Members are within their rights to bring any motion that they wish, no matter how repetitious and boring it may be. <BR /> <BR />The wording of the motion is interesting.”