Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“Does the deputy First Minister agree that it is absolutely imperative that any appointment process to replace the Attorney General is not meddled with by politicians trying to make political points?”
“I thank the Minister for that reply, and I was remiss to not welcome her to her place. There is no doubt that the residents of Rugby Road think the scheme has worked. The Minister represents a city constituency, like myself, and she is aware that in communities like Sandy Row, the Markets and Donegall Pass there is a real desire for these schemes. Will the Minister ensure that the assessment of the success of the Rugby Road scheme is carried out as expeditiously as possible so that we can get this rolling for people living in inner-city communities in Belfast?”
“I welcome the Minister to her place and give her every best wish going forward. We look forward to welcoming her to the Committee this week. As well as engaging with local businesses and giving them advice on import and export, one of the key priorities of her Department will be the promotion of exports from Northern Ireland. Can the Minister outline how she sees Invest NI tying in with that and what plans she has for a revised international strategy to encourage businesses in Northern Ireland to take advantages of the opportunities that Brexit will provide?”
“I welcome the Minister to her place and wish her well. She and I both served on Belfast City Council, and she knows that the experience there with social clauses was not a universally positive one. People point to the skyline of Belfast and its expansion as a sign of the progress that we are making, and that is true. Does the Minister agree that it is essential that inner-city communities, such as the Markets, Sandy Row, Donegall Pass, the Village and Donegall Road, see the benefit of major government contracts and that it is not simply measured by extra buildings going up? Does she agree that social clauses, properly implemented, will be a useful way of ensuring that those communities see the benefits of major infrastructure projects?”
“The Prime Minister has made some very specific pledges, not only publicly himself but in the content of the recent political agreement. It is important that those pledges are upheld; it is important that he holds to them. We all recall — at least I certainly do — two Prime Ministers, this one and his predecessor, stating that no British Prime Minister could accept internal borders inside the United Kingdom. Therefore, it is incumbent upon all of us, whether we voted Leave or Remain, to hold him to those pledges to protect business and trade in this part of the United Kingdom and to make a success of the future of our country.”
“We are all free citizens exercising our democratic rights in a free country. We should be big enough and mature enough to respectfully disagree.”
“Whether we like it or not, more people voted to leave the European Union than have ever voted for any political party or prospect on a ballot paper in the history of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />Since that referendum, the country has been through an extended culture war. It is important that that is brought to an end. I voted to leave the European Union. I do not believe myself to be superior morally or intellectually to those who voted Remain, but Remain voters are not superior morally or intellectually to those of us who voted Leave. Some of the characterisation that has been made of people who voted Leave borders on hatred.”
“In a previous discussion around the content of the EU withdrawal agreement, I made my views known. I wanted to see the referendum result implemented; I wanted to see the United Kingdom leave the European Union as one country. Therefore, I do not wish to see internal borders inside sovereign UK territory. <BR /> <BR />It is time to bring the country back together. Included in that, I mean this part of the country as well. The extended establishment rearguard action in the aftermath of the referendum sowed bitter, bitter division in the country. It was foolish to think that the expressed wishes of 17·4 million people could simply be eroded through political or legal chicanery.”
“that we do not support a deal that does not work for Northern Ireland as well as the whole of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />That is our position, and we have maintained it consistently throughout this process. The Prime Minister, for whatever reason, may have chosen to change his position, but we will not. It is essential that all parties now pull together to defend the economic interests of Northern Ireland and to defend our businesses and our traders, all of whom will be damaged or hurt if the vision outlined by the Prime Minister comes to pass. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of our party, I am clear in saying that we want to work with everyone to ensure the best possible outcome in this, the defining political issue of our age.”
“Attempting to shunt this piece of legislation through without the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly runs contrary to everything that my Rt Hon friend the First Minister said pertains in the Sewel convention. <BR /> <BR />I will finish my remarks with a quote from the First Minister:”
“This deal is bad for Northern Ireland economically because it hives us off from our single biggest market, and it will be the responsibility of the Executive going forward to ensure that there are no barriers to east-west trade. I want to see the outcome of the referendum delivered, but Northern Ireland cannot be a dowry for delivering Brexit for Great Britain, and the Prime Minister needs to be made very much aware of that. <BR /> <BR />I believe in devolution. I believe that devolution is worth having, and it helps us to address the unique circumstances that exist in Northern Ireland, and we have to work together in order to do that.”
“When a border up the Irish Sea was suggested, Theresa May and Boris Johnson stated that that was a prospect that no British Prime Minister could sign up to. I call upon Boris, therefore, to maintain his word and his consistency, and it is important that, going forward, the Executive adopt a collective approach to make sure that that is the case. <BR /> <BR />The Prime Minister should be congratulated. I think this is the first time, certainly in my living memory, that I have seen the Northern Ireland Assembly as united on an issue in rejecting the content and withholding its consent for the content of the treaty that he signed up to.”
“Those are the words of the Prime Minister, spoken before he became Prime Minister, when he was denouncing Theresa May for the content of her withdrawal agreement and yet — and yet — the aegis that he warned against is exactly that which he now proposes to sign this part of the United Kingdom up to. In those circumstances, it is absolutely right that the House should say that we are not prepared to tolerate such a situation. <BR /> <BR />During the absence of devolution, there have been many twists and turns in the Brexit process. Even in Northern Ireland, over the course of devolution being down, we have had three Secretaries of State and two Prime Ministers, but, from a DUP perspective, we have had one guiding principle on Brexit: Northern Ireland must leave the European Union on the same basis as the rest of the United Kingdom.”
“I am tempted to open with, "As I was saying, before I was interrupted three years ago", but maybe it is too soon. It is important that we state on the record in the House what the Prime Minister himself said:”
“This motion may be great parliamentary japes, but it is doing nothing to serve the people whom we were sent here to serve.”
“<BR /> <BR />The choice is therefore this: do we have a debate on the record in the Assembly that affords all Members an opportunity to express their view before the withdrawal agreement passes through Parliament at Westminster, or do we forgo that opportunity to give a statement of the views of the elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland and allow the withdrawal agreement to go through without our input into that debate at Westminster? This is important. It is the defining issue of the age, and if the suggestion is that the withdrawal agreement should be a done-and-dusted effort before the Northern Ireland Assembly takes the opportunity to express an opinion on it, I do not think that that would be a particularly constructive way for us, as the elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland, to proceed.”
“This is a simple matter: it is the last available time for the House to express an opinion on the content of the European Union withdrawal agreement. The Scottish Parliament has expressed its opinion. The Welsh Assembly will be expressing its opinion on the content of the withdrawal agreement tomorrow morning. Therefore, this is our last available opportunity to express a view. I speak as someone who was on the same side of the Brexit argument as Mr Allister and who is happy to vote for the motion because I do not agree to the content of the European Union withdrawal agreement. I do not need to amend the proposal, because it clearly states the view that my party leader and party have expressed.”
“It is the ambition of us all, or at least it should be, that we have a school estate that is fit for the education of our children. <BR /> <BR />On the theme of all politics being local, I ask the Minister to indicate that he is prepared to visit Nettlefield Primary School off the Woodstock Road to see for himself the need for capital investment in order to improve its facilities.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for his statement and the additional investment that will go into schools in my constituency, particularly Botanic Primary School and Victoria College.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I accept the nomination.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have been asked on more than one occasion by my colleague the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone whether you will indeed publish the legal advice that you were given. I think that it is important that we see that in the context of the fact that the Attorney General, the most senior law officer in Northern Ireland, gave advice that would have allowed for the opportunity for the motion to be debated here. I really think that it is important that people see the advice upon which the decision was made that this House would not be in a position to save the lives of unborn children.”
“— is because you are in the teeth of an election. I am absolutely up for scrutiny, openness and transparency — bring it on.”
“I am grateful. <BR /> <BR />The Member talks about the criteria being skewed. Oddly enough, the Member was part of the Government — or his party was, until it decided to have a hissy fit and walk — when this programme was launched, and there was not one word of criticism. You did not say that the scheme was skewed and unfair when you were in government. I suspect that you are saying it now because we are in the teeth of an election. A lot of what has been said here —”
“Hatred for and directed at the Orange Institution and its members has increased. Therefore, when a hall applies for funding — a funding process in which the Minister had no hand in making the decisions about who gets the money — and demonstrates that they meet the set criteria, it is not for anyone to gainsay or deny them their funding, least of all because of the background they come from.”
“That is twice. I would point out to Mr McGuigan that since the first cessation of IRA activity, the number of attacks upon Orange halls has skyrocketed.”
“I beg your pardon. I apologise. Daithí McKay is now off to that happy land of being the commentator, where you get to talk about everything, do not actually make any decisions and get paid for it. <BR /> <BR />I listened to his comments and a lot of what he said amounted to effectively policy criticisms of the Minister for Communities. In particular, one of the issues that he cited was the funding of community halls. I would point out to Mr McKay —”
“I, personally, have nothing to hide from openness and transparency. I would hope that anyone who is fortunate enough to be elected here to represent the people can say the same. <BR /> <BR />I believe in scrutiny and transparency. I believe that Ministers should be held accountable for how they conduct themselves in office and out of office. I listened to the comments from the Member for North Antrim Mr McKay. They amounted largely to policy criticisms, particularly of the Minister for Communities.”
“I would welcome participation in such a process and would hope that all parties feel the same. I am happy that we should look at the scrutiny of Ministers and all those who are elected to this place in terms of how they function and operate. <BR /> <BR />As a new Member, I was elected seven months ago along with other new Members who come from a background in local government. I had the opportunity to see how, in local government, there is an immediacy of delivery; you can turn things around really quickly for your constituents and get things done. Sometimes, the system here is very difficult to navigate and can become clogged up. If, as part of the reform of the institutions, people want to put forward new ideas for how people function and exercise their power, I would be prepared to give those ideas a fair wind.”
“A lot of issues have been raised by Members from various parties. Over recent days and months, we have heard people talking about the need for reform of these institutions and the need to change the way in which things operate. It is clear to most observers that, whatever the outcome of the election, those of us who are fortunate enough to be returned are likely to be elected to some sort of talks process. Part of that talks process will entail reform of the institutions and changing how things operate. I absolutely want to be part of those discussions and debates. <BR /> <BR />Recent events and, fundamentally, the architecture of the institutions that were created in 1998 demonstrate the need for fundamental reform and a move towards a more Westminster-style of doing things. I would absolutely welcome that.”
“The Member criticises funding for community halls and the lack of balance. Does he include in that the halls attached to, for example, the Ancient Order of Hibernians?”
“I appreciate the Minister giving way briefly. He will be aware that the way in which the European Investment Bank is constructed allows it to invest not only in European Union countries but in countries that are on the periphery of the European Union. Once Brexit happens, the United Kingdom will be on the periphery of the European Union but still eligible for funding from the European Investment Bank.”
“The Member talks about children being pushed away. Does he agree that it is absolutely astonishing and appalling that they were literally shipped to the other side of the world to Australia where they could be abused by people who were supposed to be caring for them?”
“— to use its assets to bring redress to the people who suffered under its care.”
“Here we are, a few generations later, tasked with — I cannot say repairing the mess or cleaning up the mess because that is not right — helping those who have suffered. I want devolution to be used to help those who have suffered. I believe that it is right that there should be an apology for the role that the state played, and I believe that a memorial is a good idea and that financial redress should also be called for. Whilst the state had and should have a role in putting together a financial package, let there be no doubt that the Churches are some of the wealthiest organisations in this land, with the vast reserves of land and property that they sit on. Any Church that had a role in the systematic abuse of children should be made —”
“We all recognise the seriousness of the situation and the gravity of the suffering that was inflicted on people who should have been protected and looked after. No one has argued or had a disagreement about the nature of the memorial. I have not heard a single person put forward differing ideas. I want us, either in the grounds of this Building or in this Building, to have a memorial that reflects that this shame is an echo back to an era when children were cared for less, when the state took the children of the vulnerable and the poor and pushed them onto the sidelines. <BR /> <BR />For whatever reason, those who were entrusted with overseeing these institutions decided that it was not worth their time to do so.”
“<BR /> <BR />The report presented by Sir Anthony Hart must be actioned. I listened to some contributions, and I have to say that I did not get involved in politics to bring shame upon myself or to let anybody down. I want to see the report actioned. I think that it was right that we waited for its publication. None of us could have foreseen circumstances in which there would not have been an Executive to implement it, but I want to assure the Member from my constituency that I want to see this report implemented every bit as much as she does, if not more so. <BR /> <BR />I am involved in politics because I want to help people. In my time on the Executive Office Committee, which is chaired by the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, there was not one word of disagreement around these issues.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I absolutely agree with that. <BR /> <BR />At the launch of the report, I sat next to a man who said to me, "They tortured me and my brother. They beat us every day, and they shoved bars of soap into our mouth". That man was probably 10 or 15 years older than me. When he was describing what had happened to him as a child, you could see that he was regressing in his mind to that time and to what had been done to him so many years ago. He was still living with it all the years after he had left the Church-run institution that he had been sent to. At every level of the state, this was a litany of failure to ensure the good care of vulnerable children and young people. Almost everything that could have been done incorrectly was done incorrectly.”
“Along with other Members, I sat in the Ramada hotel — it is not called that any more — listening to the report as it was presented. Like my colleague Claire Hanna, I found it difficult. There were three people going through my head: Trinity, Oliver and Cameron Stalford, my children. Listening to a litany of failure, abuse and torture, I thought to myself how I would feel if my children had been subjected to it. It is not that hard to imagine how this happened. These were children who were taken into care maybe because their parents could not support each other or could not support themselves, or because they were born outside of marriage. For whatever reason, they were taken into care. The state — this state — handed over to sadists and rapists children for them to look after.”
“The lady, to be fair to her, has been consistent; consistently pro-European. She and I clashed repeatedly during the referendum but, I think, always in a generous way. Does she agree that it is absolute rank hypocrisy for members of a party that is collapsing these institutions to continue to refuse to go to Westminster, where it would have a vote, I suspect, on the issue of leaving the European Union?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. He cites the Republic of Ireland and its relationship with the European Union and referenda. We know, of course, what happened there: when the political elite got the wrong answer, it simply had another referendum until it got the answer that it wanted.”
“I did say that we would not be going back to the dark days of the past, and I hope that that is a conviction shared by everyone. I will tell you something else we will not be going back to: we will not be going back to the days of you boys trotting in and out of Downing Street. I know that this is hard to believe, but you are not the centre of the universe any more.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. Does he agree that when people talk about making sacrifices or compromises, it is not much of a sacrifice or compromise to stop killing people or stop bombing the place and come up to the same basic democratic standards that everyone else who participates in politics has to abide by? That is not a compromise; that is meeting basic, minimum requirements.”
“I was about to wish you all the best in your retirement, but fair enough.”
“If you would just give me one second, I was about to wish you all the best.”
“I will. I think that we are in a better place, and I think that our people are up for fundamental, root-and-branch reform. I would welcome the opportunity to participate in that. In my last four seconds —”
“I would welcome that because I think there are things about the way in which this system works. Some of them are hangovers from 1998, and some come from 2007 onwards. I am absolutely up for fundamental reform of the way in which government operates here. I think that that is in keeping with the mood of where our people are, and, despite where we are heading, I believe Northern Ireland and our people are at a point where we no longer need enforced mandatory coalition. We are mature enough as a society. There will be no going back. No matter what happens as a consequence of where we are presently, no one seriously thinks that Northern Ireland society will slip back to where it was when I was born, in 1983. No one thinks we are going back there.”
“As a consequence of that, Protestants from Northern Ireland were the only people whom it was legal to discriminate against in the entirety of the European Union on the basis of their religion. Whether or not you make an argument that that was about addressing historical imbalances, it was the reality. So I am very glad that you mentioned St Andrews. I am very glad that, at St Andrews, that was negotiated away, and once the percentage reached 30% of people in the PSNI, the discriminatory 50:50 recruitment rule was done away with. I do not think that those are the sorts of values that we as a society should embrace, celebrate or support. <BR /> <BR />Mention was made of moving to talks and of the ugly scaffolding. I am up for that; I absolutely am.”
“Not while Corbyn is the leader, but afterwards, hopefully. People talk about 10 years of failure. I have made this point previously: for nine and a half of those years, you were part of that Government as well. I think that, over the course of that 10 years, your party, the Ulster Unionists, Alliance, Sinn Féin and ourselves have had achievements that we can point to that have materially improved the lives of our constituents and made things better for the people that we are sent here to represent. If devolution is not about making the lives of our constituents better, then of course people are going to question the value of it or why we should have it. <BR /> <BR />You talk about the values of the Belfast Agreement. One of the issues that I have already put to you relates to the destruction of the RUC.”
“My father is no longer with us, but, in truthfulness, my mother would say that it is in the interests of unionism to make friends in all the political parties and not to hitch ourselves to one, as you did in UCUNF, which prompted your political career.”
“Just one second. I will, yes; I will give way to a modern-day Tory. I am happy to give way in a second. <BR /> <BR />I remember asking my granny, "Why did you always vote Labour?". She said, "Because they gave us the NHS." So, when you talk about "the old world", you might well be talking about aristocracy and unionist gentry, but, let me assure you, that is not my people and that is not who I come from. That is not an old world that I look back on or want. I want us to use devolution in order to improve the lives of the people that we are sent here to represent. Devolution is a valuable tool for us to improve the lives of the people that we are sent here to represent.”