Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“Before I turn to my remarks, I thank those Members who were in touch because I was not well last week. That was very much appreciated. <BR /> <BR />I say to Mr Beattie that I hold him in no malice. I will always afford to any person who serves our country in uniform the highest respect and honour, but I have to politely disagree with about 95% of what he has just said.”
“I am grateful to the Member for praising the content of the St Andrews Agreement. He is absolutely right. How does that square with what his leader has consistently said about returning to the factory settings of 1998?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. He mentioned the ministerial code, which obviously apply to Ministers. Given that this is Executive business, how does he feel that he is supporting his own Minister on the Executive by moving these amendments today, because his Minister would have had to give his assent in order for this business to be in front of us?”
“The Member will recall that, when the deputy First Minister appeared in front of the Executive Office Committee, I asked her whether it was really so important for her to attend the funeral. One of the reasons that was given was that she was a political leader. Does the Member agree that that is a perfect example of politicians putting themselves above the people?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. Does he recall a story in the 'Belfast Telegraph' on 27 March, in which the deputy First Minister told Ulster Carpets that it should close to protect employees during the coronavirus outbreak? Why should profitable businesses be forced to close if those rules do not apply when it comes to republican funerals?”
“Those are the rules by which our people have been abiding. Seemingly, drawn from the Members' code of conduct, the deputy First Minister and her party do not think that they apply to them.”
“The Member will be aware of the Members' code of conduct. We all signed up to it when we became Members here. It says:”
“You will be aware of the content of the motion, which relates to breaches by Ministers. It does not relate to anything that Mr Sheehan has said thus far. Could you instruct him to direct his comments to the content of the motion?”
“On a point of order, Mr Temporary Speaker.”
“Does the Member agree that one party decided to come out of the other side of it quicker than the rest of us?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. On 23 May, the deputy First Minister said:”
“That was on 4 June, and it was said about the Black Lives Matter protests that occurred at the front of Belfast City Hall and other places. The events at Milltown made those look tiny by comparison, so why does the principle apply to people taking part in a Black Lives Matter event but does not apply to the people participating in a republican event? <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I am sad that we have come to this juncture, but, like many other people in this country, I am outraged and disgusted at the persistent denial of that which we can see for ourselves. The longer that that persistent denial goes on, the more the credibility of the deputy First Minister melts away like snow off a ditch. <BR />,”
“No matter how much Mr Storey may have meant to the deputy First Minister — I accept what she said at the Executive Office Committee, which was that he meant a great deal to her — there are others who did not have the chance to give a send-off to people who meant a great deal to them. <BR /> <BR />On 4 June, the deputy First Minister said:”
“I have no doubt that an attempt will be made to brazen it out in the hope that, once we have all had our say, that will be the end of the matter. That is not my intention. I am asking the Executive Office Committee Chairman, Mr McGrath, to consider initiating a Committee-led inquiry into these events in order to establish on the record of the House the scale of the breaches that occurred. We cannot have a situation where a senior Government Minister, week after week, fronts up a press conference, urging our people to sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice, only to then apply different standards when the person who is being buried is a colleague.”
“Yet, sir, that is precisely the power that she has assumed for herself, which we gave her, over the last four months. Not only did the deputy First Minister take on those powers but she was zealous in telling us all how necessary they were. As a consequence, many people in this country lost out on giving their loved ones the funeral that they would like. Seemingly, those rules do not apply if a senior member of Sinn Féin is the person who is being buried. That is what really sticks in people's craw. That is what is at the core of this issue: "Do as I say, not as I do".”
“I do not say that to be cruel or unpleasant; it is simply a statement of fact. What credibility there was is now gone. <BR /> <BR />At the recent meeting of the Executive Office Committee, the deputy First Minister told me that it was not for me to adjudicate on what funerals she could or could not attend.”
“<BR /> <BR />There you have it, sir: more than 30 in attendance; hundreds more behind them in a procession; widespread advertising of an event; installing a public address system in a cemetery; a mass rally in a cemetery; and posing for selfies. Yet the deputy First Minister continues to insist that her actions were within the regulations. That is for the birds. <BR /> <BR />All this is most regrettable, because the Northern Ireland Executive had been doing well in dealing with the pandemic that we are in the middle of. After a period of three years without devolution and these institutions and those of us who occupy them being held in contempt by the wider community, we were making progress in how people feel about the Assembly. I regret to say that the deputy First Minister's credibility is now shot to bits.”
“You do not need a public address system, if you intend to address 30 people. Is the deputy First Minister seriously contending that what occurred in Milltown cemetery was separate from Mr Storey's funeral? If it was, it did not constitute part of his funeral; it constituted a Sinn Féin rally in a cemetery. If you are abiding by the letter and spirit of the regulations, you do not advertise public gatherings. Yet that is precisely what Sinn Féin did. Republican activists were recruited from all over the country to attend the event; indeed, some enjoyed the occasion so much that they were posing for selfies with the deputy First Minister in yet another breach of the regulations that she authored.”
“Furthermore, given the images that have emerged showing a mass procession, I would be grateful if the deputy First Minister could confirm whether Sinn Féin, who, I am given to understand, organised the event, submitted the requisite 11/1 form to the Parades Commission. If not, that constitutes a further breach of the law, one that, I suspect, the deputy First Minister's party would be quick to seize on if others were guilty of it. <BR /> <BR />There are other reasons. The other reason why the defence of 30 in the cortège constituting the funeral breaks down is what happened in Milltown. Regulations state that gatherings should be up to 30. The deputy First Minister wrote them. She knows both the letter and the spirit of those regulations. Why, then, was a public address system set up in Milltown cemetery?”
“Thus far, the lamentable defence of her actions that the deputy First Minister has provided hinges on a spurious premise: that the crowd following the cortège at Mr Storey's funeral constitutes the funeral, whilst the parade walking behind does not. We are asked to divorce one from the other. However, we cannot. Our eyes will not allow us to do that, for we can see, leaving aside the fact that there were clearly more than 30 people walking in the cortège, there were hundreds more walking behind them and in close proximity and there were thousands in Milltown cemetery. I will come to Milltown later. That clearly and openly constitutes a breach of the regulations.”
“Thank you, Mr Temporary Speaker. In a fashion that would shame the Trump Administration, the deputy First Minister asks us to shut our eyes to what we all can see and stuff our ears to drown out what we all can hear. We are urged to rely on alternative facts. Her assertion that she abided by the guidelines that she wrote and imposed on every other citizen in this country has been repeated ad nauseam. That pretence cannot be sustained unless we close off all reason and judgement. <BR /> <BR />Let us examine the facts. What do the regulations that the deputy First Minister had a hand in drafting say? They are very clear:”
“Over recent days, Members of the House have been asked by senior Government Ministers not only to suspend their critical faculties but to suspend their physical senses. In a fashion that would shame Kellyanne Conway, the deputy First Minister asks us —.”
“Does she not accept that, by her actions, she has completely undermined her credibility?”
“That answer just demonstrates that the deputy First Minister really does not get it. She said to us in her comments, "That was then and this is now". I put it to her that what changed was that a senior republican died and the rules that everyone else had to abide by went out the window. Does the deputy First Minister recall saying on 23 May:”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I know that, traditionally, a point of order —.”
“I am going to agree with you on something”
“Therefore, anything that makes government quicker and more reactive to the needs that confront it is only to be welcomed, and, on behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party, I support these measures.”
“Ultimately, the measure is about delivering quicker governance. One of the problems that we have had, which is reflective of the nature of our society, is that our political arrangements can make decision-making slow.”
“The arguments on the advantages of the changes have been aired, and I do not intend to repeat them beyond stating our support for the Bill and the measures being brought forward by the Ministers. <BR /> <BR />The Chair of the Committee touched on an important point that was in danger of being lost in the earlier debate: the "three or more Ministers" safeguard remains in place. If Ministers are upset or concerned about the implications of a decision that is cross-cutting, three of them are required to ensure that the Executive as a whole have a conversation about that decision. It is important that that safeguard remains in place. <BR /> <BR />The Chair said that significant projects would be required to provide an economic stimulus as we come out of lockdown, and I absolutely associate myself with what he said.”
“I sympathise with the point that the Member from North Antrim makes, and I am aware that the Speaker of the Assembly has written to the Executive to raise concerns about legislative scrutiny. However, when motions come forward to permit accelerated passage or to suspend Standing Orders in relation to a Bill, the Assembly has the ability to control how that is done.”
“Therefore, I support the accelerated passage of the Bill.”
“I absolutely agree. I speak as a Member for South Belfast, where, if you stand still long enough, they will build a house on top of you, I understand why people are naturally concerned about the way the planning processes work. What I have seen in my constituency, certainly at a housing level, with issues like garden-grabbing and huge apartment blocks going in everywhere, is of concern in terms of how it works. However, there are also issues around major economic projects that can stimulate job growth and job creation. In those instances, it has taken far, far too long for businesses to get through the planning process. We need to recalibrate how planning works in this country; there is no question about that. In this small way, if it makes it easier to get decisions made that create jobs, that can only be a good thing.”
“— and in stimulating economic growth. One of the ways in which government can do that is to ensure that planning processes around major infrastructure projects are sped up. The Bill gives government a flexible tool whereby jobs and opportunities can be provided for our people, who will struggle with the economic consequences of the situation that we are in.”
“— if I was in the Chair, you would be getting reprimanded for that, so I will just reprimand you without being in the Chair”
“The explanation is plain, and the reasons why we need to do it are plain. We all know that, as a consequence of putting our economy into cold storage for four months, there will be serious economic slowdown and, potentially, a devastating recession. Government has at its disposal the potential to assist in getting out of that recession and in stimulating”
“I associate myself with the comments made by the Chairman of the Committee. Paragraph 14 of the memorandum that has been circulated in relation to the content of the Bill clearly states its purpose:”
“I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. For some Members, the idea of a command economy might be appealing. The truth of the matter is that only through having a free economy that is generating wealth can any of the aims in this motion, lofty as they are, be achieved. Would the Minister agree?”
“That is why I am putting it in Hansard for her to read later. People's perception of what is and is not priority employment has changed, and that can only be welcomed as a good thing. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to hearing from the Minister in more detail the plans that the Executive have to lead us out of lockdown and to get the engine of our economy ticking again.”
“I therefore welcome the recent announcements that the Minister has made, particularly about retail. <BR /> <BR />I think that other Members are right — I said this at the most recent meeting of the Economy Committee — that one of the things that have changed as a consequence of the crisis is that our perception of what is and is not important work has changed. My wife works in B&M on the Cregagh Road, and I dare say that, for the last nine weeks, people have thought that she is more important that I am. Of course, I always think that”
“She has balanced the need to protect public health, insofar as is possible, with the need to ensure that the economy can function again when the present restrictive measures are lifted. <BR /> <BR />The £280 million worth of grants and the furlough scheme were mentioned. I hope that Mr Muir will not think that I am picking on him, but he also mentioned the post-war consensus that obtained between 1945 and 1979. I remind him gently that Keynesian economics made the UK an economic basket case. Not for nothing were we referred to as the "sick man of Europe" during that period. However, I leave that for historians to argue. <BR /> <BR />We cannot keep the productive element of our economy, which pays for everything around us, in lockdown for a second longer than it needs to be.”
“The scale of the interventions that have been made is unheard of in peacetime. The fact that such interventions can be made at all is proof of how much better off we are as part of the United Kingdom. We have a Government who can make such interventions and spend such money protecting businesses and the economy. However, we also need to be honest. I mentioned my children. My children will spend a significant portion of their working life paying off the debt that these measures accrue. The longer the economy continues in lockdown, the more of their working life all our children will spend paying this money back. Pennies do not fall from heaven; they have to be earned. That is why I welcome the actions that the Economy Minister has been engaging in during the crisis. She has behaved responsibly and in a statesmanlike manner.”
“In moving his amendment, Mr Muir referred to economic orthodoxy being turned on its head. I think that it was Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven who said that pennies did not fall from heaven; they have to be earned here on Earth. It is important, in the debate, that we are cognisant of that fact. As my colleague from East Antrim said, the economy is everything. It pays for our public services. It pays for our education, speaking of which I put on record my thanks to Miss Bannister, Mr Hay and Mr Jennings, the three schoolteachers who have a role in the education of my children. They make a valiant contribution, along with all public workers and key front-line staff. <BR /> <BR />Nearly nine weeks into this situation, we have to be aware of the massive damage that our economy is sustaining.”
“My question relates to information-handling systems. Can the First Minister confirm that the information-handling systems at the Historical Institutional Abuse Redress Board are different from those at the interim advocate's office? Going forward, it is important that victims have confidence that their information will be handled sensitively and appropriately. <BR /> <BR />How many complaints has the First Minister's Department received about the breach that is addressed in Mr Allister's urgent question?”
“Will the Member agree that, while it is not a binary choice between public health and the economy — it never can be — the longer vast swathes of the economy are in stasis, and not moving, the much more difficult it becomes to get it moving again. That is the danger.”
“I think that I can probably top the Member's example with the case of a couple whom I know. They were going to the shops in their car and were asked by the police what they were going to buy. They said it was essential food items. The police told them that that had better be the case because they would be checking on the way back. On the way back, they were stopped, and the police rummaged through their shopping to make sure that there was not a bag of Maltesers or something in there that was not an essential.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Before I ask my question, I must point out that this is becoming a bit of a pattern of one party in the Executive lashing out all round it and attacking other parties that are working together to try and get us through this crisis. Last week, the deputy First Minister said that the target for the R rate should be 0·5 before easing restrictions. If the Chief Medical Officer tells us that the R rate is 0·5, will her party support easing restrictions?”
“<BR /> <BR />I think that, overall, we can say that the Government have acted wisely and judiciously, but our people are looking for answers. At the start of this, eight weeks ago, there was a need to impress on people the scale of the threat posed. Now, our frightened and cowed people need to be given hope.”
“It is important that the messages that we send out have logic attached to them, and that needs to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the relaxation around cemeteries. That is something that I feel strongly about. My father died when I was seven, and, on the day that I got married, I went to his grave; on the day that I was elected to the council for the first time, I went to his grave; and, on the day that I was elected here for the first time, I went to his grave. It is an important place for me, and I absolutely understand, therefore, why it is so important for people to have that in their lives. I welcome the measures that have been announced on marriages. That is the compassionate and the right thing to do.”
“I would like to know whether that figure is 0·5, as has been quoted by the deputy First Minister widely in the press. If that figure that has been provided to the Government is not 0·5, where did the deputy First Minister get her figure? They are important questions, and, if we are to reassure our frightened people, they need to be answered here today. <BR /> <BR />I want to raise the issue of churches. I welcome the announcement that churches will be able to use car parks for drive-in facilities. The Minister will know that I am a member of Ravenhill Presbyterian Church, a church in inner-city Belfast. We do not have a car park, but we have an enormous building. I look around, and I suspect that the interior of our building is bigger than this Chamber. My congregation is being told that it cannot meet, but here we sit.”
“It is important that there is a clear and consistent message coming from the Executive at this time. However, as I said in my introduction, a free people will not consent to living under house arrest for ever, least of all in a country like ours, which is the foundation stone — the founding country — of liberal democracy and where freedom means so much. <BR /> <BR />There are questions that I want answered, particularly in the context of the mixed messaging that people have been talking about. I would like to know from the Government what the R rate presently is. I would also like to know from the Government whether a figure has been established as to what an R rate should look like to enable a more full-blown relaxation of these draconian laws. I would like to know who has provided that figure, if one exists.”