Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“I appreciate the junior Minister's giving way. He touched on the inherent problem, which is that if you hit reset on this project and go right back to first principles and to the very start, it may end up taking longer to secure the outcomes that you want.”
“I hope that the Member will recall the debate in the House on the breaches of health regulations that took place at Milltown cemetery. I hope that he will recall that, on that occasion, I highlighted the discrepancy between the treatment of people taking part in one event and the people taking part in the Black Lives Matter event.”
“— with the bathwater. There is good work that the Executive can point to, but we can always do better.”
“<BR /> <BR />Co-design in any strategy going forward is a really important principle. We do not have the lived experience of people who have travelled here to make their home. We can never have that lived experience. Most of us I this room, if not all of us, were born here, and we have known nothing else. There are significant obstacles and challenges that people face when they come here to build a new life for themselves and to make a contribution to our society, especially things like getting access to healthcare, getting access to education for their kids and getting access to social services and benefits. All those things that people who were born here know inside out, those people do not know that, so assistance needs to be given there. <BR /> <BR />It is really important that we do not throw the baby out —”
“So, I represent a very diverse constituency, but, as the father of young children, I see the children play peaceably and happily together. They have to be taught to hate. It is important, therefore, that we recognise the contribution that schools are already making to ensuring that children grow up respecting each other, loving each other and being kind and decent with each other. <BR /> <BR />In the school that my children attend, my daughter's best friend is from Romania and her other friend is from Estonia, and you see the contribution that the schools make, fostering a spirit of togetherness amongst the children. So, I absolutely accept the reference to schools and why that is important. All I am saying is that that there is already important work going on orchestrated by schools.”
“I am the father of four young children, three of whom are at primary school. When I went to Nettlefield Primary School at the bottom of the Woodstock Road, there were very few people from a different background, whether that was eastern Europe, Africa or anywhere else. There are now, probably, about 25 languages spoken in the school. In Fane Street Primary School, as my colleague Paula Bradshaw can attest to, I suspect, there are probably more than 50. Botanic Primary School is the same.”
“Much like the rest of Northern Ireland, South Belfast has always been a welcoming place for people from beyond our shores. Seventy years ago, lots of Italian people came here in the immediate aftermath of World War II to make their home. Sixty years ago, in the early 1960s, it was people from Indian and Chinese backgrounds who came here and put down roots. In my constituency, I am proud of those communities and the contribution that they make to our society. They are people who came to Northern Ireland and invested in Northern Ireland at a time when nobody else wanted to because we were thought of as, frankly, a hellhole on the edge of Europe that no one wanted to be in. Those people came and made a contribution to our society. <BR /> <BR />Children do not naturally hate; they have to be taught it.”
“Much like Mr McGrath, the one element of the motion that I disagree with is the reference to the strategy being "significantly outdated". If the strategy was put in place for the period 2015 to 2025 and we are in 2020, you could probably say that, OK, we know things now that we did not know in 2015 that we should maybe include in the strategy, but it is not fair to say that it is "significantly outdated". As Mr McGrath did, I point out that we were without a Government for a period of time, but I do not wish to rehearse the reasons for that. <BR /> <BR />I am privileged to represent the constituency that I was born and reared in: South Belfast. It is a diverse and cosmopolitan constituency, and it has always been thus.”
“The question that was tabled relates to business support. At the Economy Committee, we have been discussing excluded groups. I have been told that there are 30,000 such groups, and, if they were to be paid the minimum grant of £10,000, the bill would come to £300 million. Can my Rt Hon friend tell me whether there is anything like that amount available in the Budget, because, ultimately, those interventions in the economy need to be paid for?”
“Can my Rt Hon friend tell me what her opinion is of the recent assessment that was given by Lord Frost that Monsieur Barnier, and other EU officials, have deliberately threatened the food supply of the people of Northern Ireland? Does the First Minister agree with me that such antics are despicable and reflective of an EU bureaucracy that has overplayed its hand?”
“On the actual day itself, why should the flag not be on the roof of the Building? What would it cost? How would it hurt anyone, on that one-off day, to accede to that request and show a bit of generosity to people who believe different things to you, but want to work with you to run the country?”
“My understanding of the list that we are now being brought into line with is that that is the minimum recommendation from the Government at Whitehall for the total number of days when the flag is flown. It may be that other days can be added to the list, either on a one-off basis, such as a significant national event, or permanently, if it is so decided. <BR /> <BR />I have heard some of the comments that have been made. I sat in the Chair where you are, Mr Speaker, the last time that Assembly Commission business was considered. It would be the worst possible thing for us as a community to descend into the trenches over the issue of the foundation of the state. People will have very different interpretations of it — I accept that — but we should show a bit of give and take towards each other.”
“I do so because I am loyal to the United Kingdom and I am a loyal subject to Her Majesty the Queen. It is part of who I am and my identity. It is important to me, and it is something that I value. I value the flag of my country, and I want to see it treated with respect. That is why, for example, I do not like to see flags left on lamp posts to become tattered rags. The flag of our country should be treated with respect. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the provision of these additional flag days, and the expansion to two other government buildings. It is right and appropriate. Mention was made of the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, and its list.”
“As other Members mentioned, this development arises out of New Decade, New Approach, and, as such, I welcome it. It has also been said that New Decade, New Approach represented a compromise, and I accept that there are things that people on the other side of the House might not like but are going to have to tolerate going through as part of that compromise and that there will be things that people on this side of the House might not be that fussed on either will but have to tolerate going through. Politics is the art of the possible, and New Decade, New Approach reflected a compromise between the two major political traditions that exist in this community. I think that this is a welcome development, and I speak as someone who puts a flag on his house during July and August.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She says that the motion is bizarre. She knows that the issue is a direct consequence of New Decade, New Approach — an agreement that her party signed up to support.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker, is it in order for a Member to refer directly to other Members as "you" and "your"? Surely, all remarks should be directed through the Chair.”
“I recall Sinn Féin referring to this — while the lady was a member of the European Parliament — as a "charm offensive". I do not know which it was in her case, whether it was the charm or the offensive. However, the fact of the matter is that although Sinn Féin could have gone to Westminster to take their seats and to participate in the shaping of a Brexit outcome, they did not. Not only that, but they criminally kept these institutions down for three years when we could have been having an input into the Brexit process. Therefore, we will not take lectures on shaping the best possible outcomes. I take this opportunity to express my full confidence in the Economy Minister: she is doing a good job and I am sure that she will continue to.”
“I think that I have made it clear where I stand on Brexit throughout the Brexit process. Normally in these debates, I stand shoulder to shoulder with him. It is a pity that he cannot stand should to shoulder with me. <BR /> <BR />The First Minister was very clear in what she said. She acknowledged the reality of the situation — as in the law that has been passed — whilst disagreeing with it. We all disagree with it, or certainly we all, on these Benches, disagree with the content of the protocol. The party opposite had, for years, the opportunity to participate in the shaping of any Brexit outcomes but its members chose not to. They refuse to take their seats at Westminster, where these matters are debated and discussed on an almost weekly basis.”
“We as a party believe that those objectives must be the immoveable, foundational position and are extremely concerned about the absence of regular updates to Northern Ireland and to businesses to date. <BR /> <BR />I give way to Mr James Allister QC.”
“Although I hope that the Government will move to protect our position through the legislation that is due to be published tomorrow, I will judge the Government in London on the action and the content of that legislation rather than on briefings to the newspapers. <BR /> <BR />On 20 May, the Government published a policy paper on their approach to the Northern Ireland protocol. It included four principles: one, unfettered access for Northern Ireland's business to the rest of the UK, and particularly that trade should take place as it does at present; two, no tariffs on internal UK trade; three, no new customs infrastructure in Northern Ireland; and, four, Northern Ireland should benefit from UK trade deals and not be excluded from them.”
“I will give way later to Mr Allister. I am always happy to. <BR /> <BR />The DUP, on three occasions, helped to stop Theresa May's version of the withdrawal agreement. We spoke against it and we argued against it, and we voted against the current Prime Minister's Brexit proposals. We are still arguing that, in the negotiations, the withdrawal agreement should be scrapped or else changed to take account of the need to protect Northern Ireland's place in the internal market of the United Kingdom. Others were very upset by the speculation that was in the 'Financial Times' yesterday. What I would say is this: one swallow does not a summer make.”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to. The First Minister acknowledged what the present legal reality is. Acknowledging reality does not mean endorsing the same or approving the same, unless, of course, you happened to be reading the commentary and the political editorial of the 'News Letter', but that is an issue for another day.”
“The Chair of the Economy Committee, in her intervention to Mr McAleer, referred to our highly integrated supply chains. That is precisely why the protocol was a bad idea: because it interrupts our highly integrated supply chains east-west. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we put a bit of political context on the record. The DUP voted against the withdrawal agreement in Parliament. At that time, we set out our clear opposition to any concept of Northern Ireland's economic place in the UK internal market being compromised. The protocol compromises it. We therefore oppose the protocol. The DUP, on three occasions —.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. Members are being very generous. I am up and down like a jack-in-the-box, but there is a point to be made here. Does the Member agree that there is an irony that parties that classify themselves as either social democratic or being on the left are to be found opposing the UK Government having the opportunity to make state interventions into businesses that need help as we come out of the COVID-19 crisis?”
“I got there before you. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate that the Member has given way. In his remarks introducing the amendment, Mr O'Toole referred to ideological obsessions: I would never accuse Mr O'Toole of being an Eurofanatic ideological obsessive. I would never accuse him of that, but will the Member agree that it would be indeed the manifestation of ideological obsessiveness — indeed, it would be cutting off your nose to spite your face — to cut businesses from Northern Ireland off from their biggest market out of an act of fidelity to Brussels?”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. We discussed this at some length yesterday. The Member will be aware that the principle of dual consent is enshrined in the Belfast Agreement, which, like the law of the Medes and the Persians, cannot be changed. Does the Member acknowledge that not a single unionist Member of the Assembly voted for the motion that he refers to?”
“The Member mentions the importance of North/South trade and, of course, I acknowledge that the Republic of Ireland is our largest foreign trading partner. Does the Member also acknowledge that, for businesses in Northern Ireland, the biggest element of our trade goes east-west, to GB?”
“I have made the point that I wanted to make. Thank you.”
“I do not think that we will take be taking our economic predictions or hypotheses from the SNP-led Administration in Scotland.”
“It is important that we try to take as broad a view as possible. I am certainly not going to criticise people if they have legitimate fears and concerns. Our job, as a Government, is to demonstrate the progress that has been made in addressing those concerns and make people feel that it is safe to go out, spend money and help to generate economic recovery. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the person who proposed the motion, Ms Mallon, is not here. She said in her introductory remarks that we should follow the lead and example given by Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister of Scotland, who proved her economic prowess in 2014 by telling us all that a barrel of oil would be $110 today. When I checked on 'Business Insider', it was $41·98.”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />I absolutely agree. I underscore and underline that I do not want us to do anything outwith the best scientific medical advice, but, in a sense, we have almost been victims of our own success in terms of putting the frighteners on people and encouraging them to stay in a form of lockdown. If we can encourage people, in a safe and managed way, out of self-imposed lockdown and into businesses such as those that you mentioned, we should do so. That is absolutely right.”
“Two billion pounds of additional expenditure has come from the Treasury to this part of the UK to try to shore up our economy and to ensure that once those vast swathes of the economy that have been put into deep storage are brought out of it again, there will be something left. It is testimony to the benefits of being a part of the United Kingdom that our Government were in a position to provide that subvention. However — and we need to be realistic about this — it is money that our children will be paying back. Future generations, perhaps even their children as well, will be paying it back. Although I sing the praise of the Eat Out to Help Out scheme, I am mindful of the fact that there is no such thing as a free lunch; the borrowing that has taken place in order —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Anyone who has engaged in — rightly so, I hope, we all have — trying to support the local tourism and hospitality sectors around Northern Ireland will have seen so many of our towns — places where we would traditionally go, certainly if you are from Belfast, during the summer, such as Portrush or Newcastle — completely deserted. We can all see the impact that COVID has had, particularly since there was an outbreak in Newcastle and County Down. That is why initiatives such as the Eat Out to Help Out scheme — taking on board what the Member for East Antrim Mr Dickson said — were positive and welcome. <BR /> <BR />The massive scale of the impact that COVID has had is measurable.”
“My colleague from Foyle, Mr Middleton, mentioned the aerospace sector, which employs 10,000 people in Northern Ireland. The contribution that the aerospace industry makes to our economy runs into the hundreds of millions, if not billions, of pounds. Yet, it is one of the sectors that, because of the unique circumstances that we have been facing, has been absolutely devastated by COVID-19. There are lots of people in my constituency, in East Belfast, East Antrim and North Down who are employed in the aerospace industry, so it is really important that measures and steps are taken in order to protect them.”
“Thank you and welcome back, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is good to see you back in your place, not least because it eases the burden on Roy Beggs and me and we now get to participate in some of these debates. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to support the motion and the amendment. I do not wish to be cruel to the Member who spoke previously, but I am not entirely certain that late 1920s Germany is really an economic model that we want to be following. The Member will know that that model was funded through a series of complicated loans which were, then, called in and — well, read the history books and see how that ended up. <BR /> <BR />I want to make just a few comments about a couple of key sectors of the economy, the first of which is in relation to aerospace.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way on this point. Does he agree that, whilst the £2 billion from Treasury that he referred to represents a significant subvention from Westminster to help our economy, ultimately that money is going to have to be paid back, and that the best way to safeguard and progress economic recovery is to start moving, in as safe a way as possible, to get much of our economy functioning again?”
“Will the Member acknowledge that Northern Ireland's biggest market is actually the GB domestic market? Putting anything in the path of businesses trading freely east-west would actually be more devastating to local businesses than anything that could happen North/South.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is great rejoicing over one sinner that repents, and for the sake of our country, our small businesses and our economy as a whole, I hope that the speculation is correct.”
“I absolutely agree with both of them. It is because we care about the prosperity of our people that we are in favour of ensuring free and unfettered access for Northern Ireland businesses in their own country and to their own country, and anyone opposing that should explain to those businesses how the provisions of the protocol would benefit them, because I have yet to hear any defence of them that demonstrates that that is the case. <BR /> <BR />So there we have it. The dual consent principle went out the window the minute the pro-Europeans had a majority. The provisions of the protocol will damage our business and we are running to defend it. Why? It is because of speculation in the 'Financial Times'.”
“Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, a Member of Parliament, said:”
“It is precisely because we are acting in the interests of Northern Ireland that we as a party are opposed to the protocol. It will damage our economy because it hives us off from our largest market: the GB market. <BR /> <BR />I must underline that what we are talking about here is mere speculation, but as a sovereign and now, thankfully, independent country, the United Kingdom has the right to legislate on the regulation of its own internal market. It is to be hoped that this is what is about to be undertaken this week by the Government. The DUP position is, and always has been clear about this, and the First Minister said:”
“It is precisely because I want to get the best outcome for all our citizens that I am opposed to the provisions of the protocol. For 25 years this place has been governed by the principle of dual consent. Mr O'Toole mentioned the motion that passed in favour of seeking an extension to the Brexit period. What he did not mention is that not a single unionist Member of this House voted for that motion. The guiding principle of dual consent, which has been the cornerstone of the institutions here and that he talked about, went out the window with the passing of that motion, and he knows it. <BR /> <BR />There have been ongoing discussions between the Executive and the Government on a range of these important matters, and, for our part, we will be doing all that we can to act in the interests of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom.”
“I appreciate the Minister giving way. At the conclusion of this debate, Mr McNulty will rise to address the House. I think that it is worth putting on the record what he had to say about the model. Mr McNulty said:”
“I have only 20 seconds left. <BR /> <BR />We are all trying to feel our way through the biggest national emergency that we have faced in a generation. We should be doing so with a view to securing the best outcomes for young people, not securing headlines on radio shows.”
“I absolutely do accept that, because people from the sort of background that I came from had parents who could not pay for tutors. My parents could not pay for tutors. They could not pay for supplements to their education beyond the classroom-learning experience that I had, so I absolutely accept that. That needs to be addressed because every child, taking my constituency as an example, whether they are born in the Markets or the Malone Road, should be given the most ample opportunity to make the best start in life. I know that the Minister is committed to that.”
“By the actions that he has undertaken, the Minister has ensured that all students, regardless of their background, are not placed at an unfair —.”
“That is reasonable and proportionate, and no one should ever doubt the Minister's commitment to ensuring that every young person in Northern Ireland, whether at primary school, secondary school or going on to university, gets the best start in life. <BR /> <BR />Ms Kelly referred to people from a working-class background. I am from a working-class background. I was born in Annadale Flats and reared at the bottom of the Ravenhill Road. The best start in life that I had was in education at Wellington College Belfast. I am very proud of my roots. I was sent here to represent working-class communities, and I assure her that I would never want to preside over a situation in which such communities were treated unfairly or disadvantaged.”
“The Minister is right to respond to the concerns expressed, and I am pleased that no student from Northern Ireland will be placed at an unfair disadvantage in relation to their peers elsewhere on these islands. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome the Economy Minister's announcement in relation to securing additional university places, and I urge all colleagues in the Northern Ireland Executive to get behind her and give her the support that she needs to secure the funding for those additional places. <BR /> <BR />These are unprecedented times. Problems with one system have been identified and a new system has been put in place. Concerns first raised on a Thursday were addressed by the Minister on the Monday.”
“Had the Minister, for example, suggested reopening schools to allow for the sitting of exams, I assume that there would have been widespread opposition in the House to such an idea. I am happy to give way to any Member who wishes to contradict me, although I urge the Chair of the Education Committee, who has been here longer than I, to cease chuntering from a sedentary position. It is not very becoming. <BR /> <BR />No model would have been without its flaws, and any Member pretending that they had the answer all along is engaging in a fantasy. The model that was in place had significant drawbacks, as does this one — grade inflation being the most obvious.”
“It is in that context that we meet today. <BR /> <BR />People should always remember that we are living in unprecedented times. Formal school examinations were not stopped for the duration of World War II. They were not stopped for the three-day week. They did not stop for the winter of discontent or for the miners' strike. That should give us a sense of the scale of the challenge that we are tasked with dealing with. <BR /> <BR />In order to allow people to progress in their educational careers, a model of awarding qualifications that did not involve sitting formal examinations was going to be necessary because of the decisions taken to combat COVID. That, I assume, is accepted by everyone.”