Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,239 lines we hold for Christopher Stalford, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 4 of 25.
“Their logic appears to be that we should not pass a law for fear that we will have to enforce it. That is why the legislative Assembly exists: to pass laws. It exists so that where we see practices that we wish to end, they can be ended, and where we want to initiate new initiatives, they can be initiated. This practice should be ended. I support the Bill.”
“I do not, for one second, accept the premise that this is a town versus country argument. It is not. Many people who live in rural communities are as opposed as I am to the hunting of wild mammals with hounds. There is an attempt by powerful lobbying groups, such as the Countryside Alliance and other groups like it, to portray this as a case of ignorant townies — city slickers — imposing their will on country people. That is simply not the case. The majority of people, whether they live in towns or in the country, are with me in opposing the continuance of this cruel and unnecessary practice. I welcome the Bill. I welcome the clauses, particularly that in relation to terrier work. I see no purpose or reason for that sort of activity to go on. <BR /> <BR />Someone mentioned during the debate the possibility of troubles with enforcement.”
“The fact is that the National Trust took the decision that it took because it recognised that trail hunting and drag hunting were being used as a cover for the hunting of wild mammals with dogs.”
“Will the Member cease chuntering from a sedentary position? You will have your turn.”
“— demonstrated, as did the recent High Court judgement on the matter, that trail hunting is used as a cover for the hunting of wild mammals.”
“If the Member wishes to have it included in the Bill, I am happy to vote for it too. The recent decision that was taken by the National Trust on trail and drag hunting —”
“If the Member wishes to include it in the Bill, I am happy to vote for that too.”
“An opinion poll was carried out on that, in which 85% of people surveyed were against the repeal of the Hunting Act. The idea that there is therefore some silent majority out there in favour of the maintenance of hunting with hounds is nonsense and is not borne out by any measure at all of public opinion. The majority of citizens in this country want hunting abolished.”
“You do not need dozens of people on horseback tearing across the countryside with a pack of dogs, in many cases damaging that countryside and damaging fences and things like that, to deal with the problem. That is sport, not pest control. I do not even think that it is sport, so let us call it what it is. <BR /> <BR />There has been a lot of obfuscation in the debate thus far. First, Mr Blair has been attacked on the basis that the consultation was not thorough enough, that it did not ask the right questions and that lobby groups were able to influence it. I can share with Members the fact that, as some will recall, during the general election of 2017, a suggestion was raised that the Conservative Party, if it formed a majority, would reverse the Hunting Act.”
“He picked up a bit of the puppy, flung it over a hedge and said to those children, "Looks like it, doesn't it?". If that is the by-product — the indirect consequence — of such a practice, it has no place in our society. <BR /> <BR />That was an indirect consequence, but, leaving aside the direct cruelty of hunting mammals with hounds, I think that it is also unnecessary. I do not have a sentimental view about foxes. I accept the arguments that foxes are vermin. I am therefore not taking a sentimental view on the issue, but there are other ways in which to deal with a fox problem, if you have one. You do not need to make a sport out of it.”
“I support the Bill and the provisions contained therein. It is, to me, astonishing that, in 2021, the hunting of foxes and other wild mammals with hounds should continue to be practised in this country. I was not always of the view that I am now on the issue. I very much took the view that I am a town person and that it was not for me to tell people in the countryside how to live and how to operate. I will regale the House with a story of how my mind was changed following an incident that took place in, I think, Newry. Children were playing in the garden with a new puppy that their mother had bought for them, and the hunt tore into the garden and ripped their puppy to bits in front of them. One child asked one of the people on horseback, "Mister, is our puppy dead?".”
“I am grateful to Mrs Barton for giving way. At Second Stage, we consider the general principles of the Bill. The further clarification that Members wish for can be provided at further stages. Can we all agree, as a general principle, that the hunting of a wild mammal to death with a pack of dogs is cruel and unnecessary?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. Surely the issue is about intent. The law is clear about people intending to pursue wild mammals. The issue is clearly about intent. If the Bill passes, I see no scenario in which innocent people will end up being hauled in front of a court over an accident where their dog picked up and followed a scent. It is clear that the Bill is about the intent of the pursuit of wild mammals.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Is he aware of a recent court case in which it was found that trail hunting is precisely as the Member describes: a cover for fox hunting?”
“The Minister of Health has a very difficult job and faces a very difficult time over the coming months, but our job is not only to support the Minister when he is right but to question, debate and tease out the evidence. That is why I am very disappointed to see no reference in the business diary to such a debate taking place; it absolutely should take place.”
“In fact, it is really important that we, as Members, are afforded the opportunity to see evidence that such a scheme will work in combating the threat of the virus. It is really important that these issues are argued and debated on the Floor of the House. <BR /> <BR />The Northern Ireland Executive are comprised of Members of the House. There are more Members of the House than there are members of the Executive. It is our job to question, debate and argue issues out. Given the fundamentally different nature of the proposal from that which went before it to combat the threat of COVID-19, which we all recognise and want to see tackled, it is essential that we, the Members of the Assembly, whether we are for the idea or against it, are allowed the opportunity to debate it and thrash out the arguments on the Floor of the House.”
“We are about to embark on a vaccine passport scheme. All Members will recall that the House was told, certainly publicly if not necessarily on the Floor, that there would be a debate and a vote before the introduction of such a scheme. I checked the business diary for this week and saw no schedule for a debate and a vote on the introduction of such a scheme. I understand the nature of things moving quickly and the Executive having to react to events. Throughout the pandemic, we have become accustomed to granting retrospective approval for measures introduced by the Executive. The measures kick in, and the House votes to approve them afterwards. Given the nature of the scheme being proposed, that is not appropriate.”
“The central issue, of course, is the writ of the European Court of Justice. The present position adopted by the European Union is, "We will water down some of our rules, but we reserve the right to make the rules for you forever in perpetuity". Does my colleague the First Minister agree that that is a position that no Prime Minister, but certainly no Conservative and so-called unionist Prime Minister, should ever sign up to?”
“We all recognise the scale of the challenge that we face and the role that the Executive Office has in coordinating the response across all of government. Will the First Minister confirm for my constituents in Belfast that this Government will not clobber them with a congestion charge?”
“In light of recent decisions in relation to the display of a memorial stone in the grounds of this Building to mark the centenary of this country, the lighting up of this Building and even the planting of flowers in the grounds of this estate, does the junior Minister agree with me that if we, as a society, are going to progress in these very sensitive areas, it needs to be on the basis of mutual respect and not one party seeking dominance over the rest of us?”
“I seek clarity, sir. Is it in relation to this, or is it the question that I am listed for next?”
“When you take someone's child from them and, in some cases, sell that child to wealthy couples, you engage in human trafficking. When you force someone to work, sometimes to the point of their death, without paying them for that work, you engage in slavery. When you then attempt to apply a veneer of the love of Christ to it, you engage in lies. The institutions responsible for this gave it up not because they had some turnaround or change of heart; they gave it up because the profit went out of it. Given that some of those institutions sit on vast resources, will the deputy First Minister and her colleague the First Minister and all Executive Ministers pursue them to ensure that adequate and fair recompense is made to the victims of their actions?”
“Nor do I. I will try to say this in the most sensitive way possible. This year, the party opposite refused to allow the placing of a stone in the grounds of this Building to commemorate the centenary of Northern Ireland, an event about which he and I disagree but that is important to a lot of people. The party opposite refused to light up the Building for the same event, while Downing Street was lit up. Again, I appreciate that the Member has a different view of the centenary from mine. The party opposite refused to allow so much as the planting of flowers in the grounds of the Stormont estate. I take the Member's view that people should be represented and that their identities should be treated with respect, but so should mine.”
“In this day and age, people should not be living in homes like that.”
“How often can all of us here testify to hearing the old refrain that comes when someone is sent out from the Housing Executive or housing association that it is simply condensation or mildew? How often have people who live in homes the walls of which are black with damp been told, "You need to open a few windows"? That is totally unacceptable in a modern society. Therefore, I flag up the issue. <BR /> <BR />Given the council area that the Minister for Communities and I represented and the constituency that we represent, I am certain that she could regale the House with stories similar to the ones that I relate. I take the opportunity not to hector or to try to score points but to flag up the issue and to encourage the Department to take a much closer look at it and to have more proactive involvement.”
“I am very grateful because I know that we are over time, so I will not use too much of it. I extend to my colleague Peter Weir my deepest sympathies on the death of his mother and thank the Members of the House who have been in contact with me over the death of my wife's grandmother. May was a wonderful person, and we will miss her very much. <BR /> <BR />I want to discuss damp in Housing Executive properties. A home is somewhere where we should be comfortable, safe and feel protected in order to raise a family or live together. Yet, the experience of so many people not just in the city of Belfast but throughout Northern Ireland is one of having homes that are below standard and are absolutely riddled with damp.”
“Those who argued for and passed a motion that called for the rigorous implementation of the protocol have now been exposed as foolish. Even their masters in Brussels have indicated a preparedness to consider alterations and changes. Time will tell whether those changes go far enough. Does my colleague the First Minister agree that those who passed that motion demanding rigorous implementation were stupid so to do?”
“I know that the Minister will act with goodwill in that regard — I am glad to see her in the Chamber — and I hope that she will engage actively and constructively with those of us who think that an alternative should be considered.”
“The consultation period has ended, and I have no doubt that the findings will be that the huge majority of people are in favour of the proposal. Of course they will be in favour of the proposal, by a huge majority, if the alternative is to not have a Glider route, and, of course, the result that comes back from the consultation will be that a majority say that they are in favour of the proposal. However, I urge government, the Department and Translink to show more flexibility and to be prepared to engage constructively, particularly with businesses on the Ormeau Road that are deeply concerned about the implications that this will have for them.”
“That raises significant concerns for the local businesses and their future viability, and I have been asked to raise those concerns here. <BR /> <BR />I would like to see a wider consultation from Translink and the Department, and, despite the fact that I belong to the party that I belong to, I suggest that the Minister and the Department be prepared to consider alternative routes. It is important that those views are heard. There is a comparison between my constituency and that which the Minister represents. In North Belfast, an active and healthy debate is going on as to what the best route for the Glider should be. Meanwhile, in the south of the city, we cannot have a debate on the best route because we have been offered only one option.”
“When is a consultation not a consultation? I suggest that a consultation is not a consultation when there is merely one option to be consulted upon. That is precisely the experience of my constituents in relation to the proposed route of the Glider in South Belfast: there is one option in the consultation exercise, namely the Ormeau Road. The Department, to paraphrase Henry Ford, assures us that you can have whatever colour of car you like, provided it is black. I represent local businesses on the Ormeau Road, and it is important that I reflect their concerns about the proposal. Anyone who knows that road will know that, for a stretch of it, rear access for delivery vehicles to businesses is not a possibility. However, it is proposed that, for vast swathes of the day, those delivery vehicles will not be allowed to enter the Glider lane.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. At no point should that have been viewed as disrespectful or lacking in respect. Certainly, that was not my intent. I was clear that I was not talking about any individual in the Chamber.”
“Yes. If you do not pay your tax, the Government will threaten to —”
“No, but government in general can and does.”
“To be clear, I am talking about all of us, not any individual Minister or person. I am talking about the Government as a whole.”
“There would be no justification for that, particularly in the context of what was said on Radio Ulster by someone employed in the care sector, which was that to impose other restrictions such as those mentioned in the debate, while we ease these restrictions, would potentially lead to the collapse of the care sector. We need to be careful that the Government do not give the impression of being like a man who cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. There is more than one way to deal with the issues. Threatening and bullying people is certainly not one of them.”
“<BR /> <BR />The previous Member to speak was right that encouraging people to do the right thing is one thing but threatening them is quite different. There cannot be, hanging over people's heads, the compulsion that they will not be able to go to work. We have just driven our economy off a cliff. In answer to a question, the Minister for the Economy said that the restrictions, of which these regulations form a part, have cost the Northern Ireland economy £6·1 billion. We have to be clear that the worst thing that we could do to people is threaten their ability to go to work.”
“A wedding is, obviously, one of the most significant events that people will have in their lives, so it is a welcome step that they will be able to have a dance at their wedding. I welcome the removal of the requirement for music to be at an ambient level. I am not sure why that was there in the first instance, but I am glad that it is no longer there and that people will be able to enjoy that freedom. I do not play pool, snooker or darts, but I am glad that other people will be able to do so. It is a good thing for people to be able to enjoy the pastimes and hobbies that they have always enjoyed. In that context, this is a good day, because we are giving people back aspects of their lives that they had lost.”
“In that context, for someone who believes in giving people back their freedom and their lives, it is always a welcome occasion when the Minister comes to the House to announce the abandonment of regulations that were imposed at the start of the pandemic. Therefore, I welcome the moves to remove the requirement to obtain a ticket in advance for indoor theatres or concerts that have allocated seating. That is good and is to be welcomed, because one of the sectors of our society that has suffered an absolute hammering over the past 18 months is the arts and entertainment sector. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that people will be able to have a dance at a wedding reception.”
“Some time ago in the House, at the commencement of the pandemic — I think we were eight weeks in at that point — a vision was outlined to us of a plague of "biblical proportions"; I think that that was the phrase used. Mercifully, that did not and has not come to pass. I am glad of that. I congratulate our healthcare workers and everyone who works in the NHS and the wider community for the role that they have played in producing that situation. <BR /> <BR />Our people should be congratulated for their endurance, because people in Northern Ireland have endured a greater loss of freedom and for longer than people in any other part of the United Kingdom. Our people are, in many respects, ahead of the politicians in wanting to move to get life back to normal — not a new normal, but normal — as soon as possible.”
“I am grateful to the Member for East Belfast for giving way briefly. He might have heard a recent discussion on Radio Ulster in which the proposition was raised that, without a vaccine certificate, certain workers would be banned from going to their place of work. I presume that the Member disagrees with that, particularly in the context of care homes. It was reported on that programme that, if such a regime was imposed, the care-home system in this country would collapse.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The instructions on the conduct of debate in the House advise Members to be moderate and temperate at all times. I believe very firmly that the outrageous comment made by the Member for North Down that was directed at the Member for North Antrim has fallen very short of that. The Member should apologise to the House.”
“Now, it is time for those words to be backed up by firm action and resolve. The Prime Minister leads the Conservative and Unionist Party. It would be good to see a little more unionism injected into that party. We know who we are and what we are for. Who is he and what is he for?”
“I totally agree with him. <BR /> <BR />This week, the collective leadership of unionism will participate in an event at the Conservative Party conference. I welcome the fact that my leader, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, Doug Beattie, and the Member for North Antrim Mr Jim Allister are showing a collective position in opposition to the protocol. There is not a single elected unionist representative in Northern Ireland who supports the protocol; not one. History has shown that the consent of the governed is a prerequisite for the existence of any system of government that is not a dictatorship. We do not consent, have not consented and never will consent to living under this system. <BR /> <BR />In the past, the Prime Minister has talked a good game in respect of his unionist credentials.”
“I wish to speak in relation to the United Kingdom's departure from the European Union. Later today, the Assembly will debate a motion calling on the United Kingdom Government to enter into a phytosanitary agreement with the European Union. In itself, that is an implicit admission that the Northern Ireland protocol has failed and that those who called for its rigorous implementation were mistaken so to do. <BR /> <BR />In the press today, the noble Lord Frost is quoted as saying:”
“I welcome the Minister's response, because it is an area of work that has been left for far too long. I will press the Minister a little further on his time frame for putting legislative provisions in place. In an ideal world, independent of other political considerations, has the Minister a time frame in mind for bringing the process to a conclusion?”
“In a response to a question for oral answer that I tabled to the Minister for the Economy, I was told that the cost of COVID to the local economy thus far has been more than £6 billion. This week, we have launched a £145 million high street scheme. Does the deputy First Minister agree that, if we enter a situation where there is another lockdown around October time, whether it is called a "lockdown" or a "circuit breaker", the net result will be that the high street scheme will have been money spent in vain?”
“Whilst it is true that what takes place in Ormeau Park constitutes the event, it is not true that the organisers have no responsibility for that which takes place outside Ormeau Park, in the streets around the bottom of the Ravenhill Road. They clearly have a responsibility in that regard. I urge them and the council to engage more fully with local people to address those concerns in order to ensure that the event not only benefits the city but is one that local people do not feel detrimentally impacts their life and existence in the place and community where they live all year round, not just during those events.”
“I have been disappointed at the lack of engagement with local residents by the organisers of that event. Specifically, the Lagan Village Youth and Community Group has been working hard to try to articulate the concerns of the people in that part of the town and to make the organisers listen. I regret to say that I do not believe that they are listening or that people's concerns are being taken on board. It is wrong that the associated antisocial behaviour that accompanies those events should be imposed on the people of the lower Ravenhill and Ballynafeigh communities. <BR /> <BR />I urge the organisers to engage more fully with local residents in that area to hear their concerns and to act on them.”
“It is, of course, a good thing that public events are taking place in the city and that people want to have events in our city, but it is also a good thing to treat people who live around those events with respect and to listen to their concerns.”