Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“I welcome the Minister's statement and affirm the Democratic Unionist Party's support for these measures. <BR /> <BR />I do not think that any of us could have envisaged in July, when these measures were first put in place, that we would now look to extend them well into another year. That, unfortunately, is the situation in which we find ourselves. The Minister has shown leadership in ensuring that the measures are brought forward and that a tailored solution can be delivered to help businesses through this very difficult time. <BR /> <BR />It is likely that we will have a very long, deep and hard winter in economic terms. Anything, therefore, that the Department or we as an organ of government can do to help the business sector get through this difficult time should be done. In that vein, we support the measures.”
“What I actually said was that you cannot borrow your way into prosperity.”
“— or, indeed, the Minister for Infrastructure. We could all do that, or we could actually start to work together.”
“There are five parties in the Executive. We could all do this, week in and week out. My colleagues and I could table motions that criticise Sinn Féin Ministers —”
“There are no figures, no budget and no idea of what it will look like. It is just a bland:”
“<BR /> <BR />That brings me to my concluding point. It is the easiest thing in the world to put down a motion that:”
“Then, we have an economy debate, and some of those very same people who led the charge for the economy and general society to be locked down are those who criticise the Economy Minister and demand that she spend more money on economic stimuli and growth. One cannot stimulate a shut-down economy. It needs to be opened up. It is for those Members to square that circle. <BR /> <BR />Again, we are talking about planning for when the pandemic is over. When will it be over? Does anyone have a date? The criticism of the Minister is that she does not have a plan set in place for when the pandemic is over. Given the twists and turns that there have been over the past seven months, the Minister might not know what her financial position will be in seven weeks, or what resources she will have available.”
“I do not disagree with that, although it does slightly have the logic of a man standing in a bucket, trying to lift himself up. However, that is a different issue. We do have to reflect on the fact that that money, once it is borrowed, will have to be paid back, and the way in which it will be paid back will be through taxation. As the Member says, the way to get more tax take is to expand the economy. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to the point. Sometimes, at the best of times, Stormont can feel as though it is in a parallel universe. When there are health debates in this Chamber, people lead the charge to lock down vast swathes of the economy and society and insist on almost going back to the situation that we had at the start of the crisis.”
“As others have said, the interventions that have been made demonstrate the benefit of Northern Ireland's being a part of the United Kingdom. The sheer scale of the economic intervention has been enormous. However, as I have said in previous debates on these types of issues, it will have to be paid back, just as it was at the end of Second World War. We finished paying that off five or six years ago. <BR /> <BR />I am mindful of the Eat Out to Help Out scheme. I said at the time —.”
“Going forward, I hope that the companies that provide those jobs — I have to say that I think that B&M is a very good employer — reflect that in how they treat their workers.”
“These are not government interventions; it is taxpayers' money. If we are talking about making massive financial interventions in the economy, the only place that we can go to to get that money is to the people of this country. No nation in history has taxed itself or borrowed itself into prosperity. No, the way to secure prosperity is to expand and grow the economy. <BR /> <BR />I agree with some of what the previous Member said, particularly that our sense of what is a key worker has changed. I absolutely accept and agree with that, and I do not just say that because my wife works at B&M on the Cregagh Road. The notion of what a key front-line worker is absolutely has changed.”
“The collective spirit of cooperation that clearly exists in our Government was being exposed there. <BR /> <BR />This time last year, no one had heard the word "COVID-19" or would have envisaged the damage that such a viral outbreak would have on our economy or generally on our society. The fact that we are looking at 100,000 job losses and the fact that almost a decade of job creation has been wiped out in a few months demonstrate to us the scale of the challenge that we face. It has become a cliché to use the word "unprecedented" about the situation that we are in, but these are unprecedented times. <BR /> <BR />From listening to Members, I think that it is important to get back to some first principles. Principle number one is that there is no such thing as "government money".”
“The Member clearly stated that it was not his intention to score political points, and I absolutely accept that. Even a basic understanding of how the finances of this place work would demonstrate that that line in the motion — demanding that the Minister undertake action that the people who tabled the motion know that she cannot, even if she wanted to — is blatant point-scoring.”
“Today marks an important milestone. Mr Nesbitt and I might be the only original members of the old OFMDFM Committee who are still on the Executive Office Committee. This has been a long time coming. I remember sitting with some of the victims at the launch of the Hart inquiry. Promises were made, and we have an absolute obligation to see them fulfilled. <BR /> <BR />This is one part of the package, and it is very welcome. Another part of the package is securing funding for the compensation scheme, and we have very wide estimates of how much that will cost. What update has the deputy First Minister had from the religious organisations that were entrusted with the care of children on the scale of the contribution that they anticipate making to such a compensation scheme?”
“that there was a time when the only people that it was legal to discriminate against, in the entirety of Europe, were people from Northern Ireland from a Protestant community background who applied for jobs in the police. Who gave the permission and made the accommodation to allow that to happen? Maybe the Member could illuminate the House on that?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way because neither Miss Sheerin nor Mr McNulty chose to. They both mentioned rights and equality. The Member will recall from the time that I was blissfully employed by him, in his European office,”
“— of that organisation. I trust our people to govern themselves rather than to be governed —”
“— very food supplies, but Members here stand to their feet and sing the praises —”
“could be classed as " bad faith". Indeed, that is precisely how it should be classed. The idea that bad faith in this process has come only from one source — London — is for the birds. Throughout this entire negotiation, the EU has used Northern Ireland as a bargaining chip. It threatens the prosperity of our people. At one point in the negotiations, it was threatening our —”
“It is bad for people's health. I welcome the fact that we will no longer be living under its regulatory regime. <BR /> <BR />It is important to put on record the opinion of Martin Howe QC, who said:”
“It is always appreciated. I was worried that someone would not get in. <BR /> <BR />What the Government have done is to move to ameliorate the dangerous and damaging effects that the protocol will have in cutting Northern Ireland off from its largest market. You cannot stand to your feet and say, "People need certainty, and businesses need help and reassurance", while at the same time defending a proposal that cuts us off from our largest market. If you defend that proposal, you are hurting Northern Ireland business and making it harder for people in Northern Ireland to get ahead and make a living. You cannot stand to your feet and say that you are standing up for the community when you are taking money out of your constituents' pockets by supporting the protocol. The European Union is bad for business. It is bad for people's lives.”
“What the Government have done is, rightly, to take the necessary measures to ensure that we are not tied in to this dangerous protocol that is —”
“I do not know whether Sinn Féin is nationalist any more. Is it multi-nationalist? Is it corporatist? I am sure that Gerry Carroll has a few words that he would use to describe it.”
“It is ironic that they decry rule from London but plead and beg to be ruled from Brussels. What sort of nationalists are they? People can see through that; they know what it is. It is positioning, although not out of any fealty to the European Union. To be fair, I have long given up on converting my colleague from South Belfast on that issue. That pass has long been sold, given his adherence and devotion to an organisation headed up by a failed German Defence Minister, who had to be got out of the country because she was the least popular Minister in Merkel's Cabinet, and they found her a cushy job in Brussels on €122,000 a year. We have given up on trying to convert Mr O'Toole to see the true nature of the European Union, but there is hope. There may be hope: there may still be a beating nationalist heart in Sinn Féin.”
“The irony of republicans who drape themselves in the Irish flag and defend the sovereignty of the Irish people, gained at such cost from evil British imperialists, now getting to their feet to defend the quasi-national Government of the European Union is clearly lost on them.”
“Sinn Féin has been Eurosceptic for longer than the Conservative and Unionist Party, but, suddenly, in this context, it is the great defender of an organisation that, not a few years ago, it was denouncing as a corporatist scam that suppressed wages and exploited workers. It is for them to justify that sudden volte-face. <BR /> <BR />I have no doubt that the next Member to speak will say in that perfunctory way, like some Brezhnev-era apparatchik trotting out the party line, that, "We are in favour of a reformed European Union". Our experience has taught us that reform of the European Union is impossible. It is an organisation that, from the 1957 Treaty of Rome, exists, according to its own definitions, for one purpose and one purpose alone: ever closer union and the dismantling of the nation state.”
“Week after week, it appears as though we are debating a motion on one aspect or another of the United Kingdom's decision to leave the European Union. On this occasion, it was tabled by Sinn Féin. When the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland went into the Common Market together, Sinn Féin opposed that. When the Single European Act was passed, Sinn Féin opposed that. When the Maastricht treaty, which created the European Union, was passed, Sinn Féin was opposed to that. When the Nice treaty came along, Sinn Féin was opposed to that. Sinn Féin was opposed to the European constitution. Sinn Féin was opposed to the Lisbon treaty.”
“The dictionary definition of cynicism is:”
“I apologise to you, sir, for any offence that I caused you.”
“Before I get into my comments, Mr Speaker, I apologise for my chuntering from a sedentary position on the Back Bench. I was chatting to my colleague from North Antrim, who was just so excited to see me back”
“Will the Member agree with me that there is an irony in being lectured on the need and munificence of European Union rule when this is an organisation whose books, for 20 years, auditors have been unable to clear?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. He is a doughty champion of the European Union, no doubt because it is an institution of rules. That being the case, how does he explain the European Union tearing up the convergence criteria that it established for countries to be admitted to the eurozone when subsequently allowing Greece and Italy to join? Its rules mean one thing at one time and another thing at another.”
“the errant clauses to which my friend refers?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Will he reflect on the opinion of Martin Howe QC, who said that section 38 of the withdrawal agreement:”
“<BR /> <BR />On behalf of my party, I extend our deepest condolences to his family and his many friends at this very sad time.”
“<BR /> <BR />He had a lifelong friendship with Michael Longley, whom, as a member of Belfast City Council, and along with Mr O'Toole's predecessor, the now Member of Parliament for South Belfast, I was honoured to nominate for the freedom of the city of Belfast. <BR /> <BR />Mr Mahon had dozens of collections published, and his contribution to literature can never be overestimated. It is rare to have three biographies of one's self written in one's own lifetime. That has occurred in Mr Mahon's case and is demonstrative of the high esteem in which he is held. My constituency colleague Mr O'Toole made reference to Mr Mahon's poem, 'Everything Is Going To Be All Right'. In the context of the times in which we are living, it is important that we remember those sentiments.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that. It would be hard to describe Derek Mahon's life as anything other than a life well lived. Speaking as someone who comes from and has lived in the city of Belfast his entire life, I think that we can all be very proud of the contribution that a native son of the city has made to the world of literature. <BR /> <BR />Derek Mahon came from a similar background to me. He came from a working-class family. His father and grandfather worked in Harland and Wolff shipyard and his mother worked in a linen mill. He was educated at Inst, Trinity and the Sorbonne. He travelled extensively in France, Canada and the United States of America.”
“Very briefly, can the Minister outline to the House whether he has any plans to review the criteria that are used for allocating nursery school places, in order to ensure that no parents are discriminated against when applying for a place for their child?”
“It is interesting to hear the Member for Upper Bann proclaim himself an interventionist. That being the case, why is he so determined to keep us living under EU state aid rules?”
“Marketing this place as a good place to do business is something that we should be doing. <BR /> <BR />I think that I filled my four seconds better than Stewart Dickson ever could.”
“The Member is absolutely right. Almost every Department has made a positive contribution to helping our economy to keep going. It is not just the grant schemes from the Department for the Economy. It is also, as the Member mentioned, rates relief from the Department of Finance; childcare support from the Department of Education; support for charities from the Department for Communities; and interventions from DAERA and the Minister for Agriculture. The Executive are pointing in the right direction on that. <BR /> <BR />One final point is that there are other instruments that can be used to help our economy, beyond simple cash handouts from the Government. Money can be spent on training, marketing and attracting investment. I think that, in particular, marketing this place as a good place to do business is something that we —”
“One moment, then I will. <BR /> <BR />In these times, it is important that we should have a singular direction and a singular focus from the Executive. There have been occasions throughout the past eight months where that has been undermined, but it is important, especially when, as I have said, we are talking about people who, in many cases, have invested their life savings in starting an enterprise. Of course it is important that we should examine the options that are available for us to help them.”
“I welcome the fact that the Economy Minister has said that an options paper has been forwarded to the Executive for consideration. <BR /> <BR />I am interested in this, and I hope that the Minister will outline it. I have no intention of attempting to play the Economy Minister off against the Finance Minister — that is not useful or helpful — but, when members of the Finance Minister's party take to their feet and attack the Economy Minister, it is worth asking how many bids the Department for the Economy has lodged with the Department of Finance, awaiting a response. I would be interested in that, and I hope that the Minister will be in a position to answer that in her summing up.”
“I am not quite sure what the point is that the Member makes, but I certainly accept that there have been people who have missed the opportunity for help, and it is important that we, if we are in a position to and can afford to, should assist them; of course we should. As I was about to say, it takes a lot of courage and bravery to start a business. People invest their life savings in businesses and new projects and trying to provide a means of income for their family and support for their kids. Of course, if we are in a position to assist those people, we absolutely should do so. The question is whether we are in a position to do so. Is the budget line there? Does the resource exist? What options are the Executive looking at?”
“<BR /> <BR />As a general principle, everyone should accept that the best and speediest way to economic recovery will be not government largesse but the opening up of as much of the economy as we can as quickly as we can within the advice that it is given to us. Government is not the solution to every problem, but, on the whole, the Northern Ireland Executive can stand over the record that they have. We can point to the significant investment that has been made in order to help keep our country alive, literally, and to keep our economy alive”
“Over the last eight months, the word "unprecedented" has managed to become a cliché, because we all refer to the "unprecedented" times in which we live. They are unprecedented times. At the time that devolution was first restored, I do not think that any of us could have foreseen what this year would bring. Not only has there been, obviously, a significant health crisis but, as a direct consequence of that and as a consequence of the decisions that we made, there is an economic crisis, because we decided to put vast swathes of the Northern Ireland economy into cold storage. Those are the decisions that we took on the basis of the advice that was given.”
“The reason that I raise all this and have read it into the record is because it is important that Ministers are honest. I am asking for a ruling on the honesty and veracity of the statements that are being made, in this instance by the Minister for Infrastructure.”
“I have received a detailed response from the Minister, part of which includes the following:”
“Subsequent to that, I wrote to the Economy Minister yesterday evening:”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday, the Infrastructure Minister, via social media, said:”