Christopher Stalford
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“In the United States of America, you have two schools of thought: the expansionists — the people who do not believe that the Founding Fathers should be taken at their word, or that the Constitution should be interpreted in the strict sense; and the originalists — those who do.”
“Let me make some progress. <BR /> <BR />The key point in the brief is the "particular circumstances" of Northern Ireland. That is, and should be, central to everything that we examine.”
“I do not think that it ever got particularly bad-tempered, so I am disappointed at the tone that was struck in the opening of the debate and in subsequent contributions, but I am not going to lie down like a dog and take it. I am not going to take the rewriting of history.”
“There is one absolute right in law, and that is the right not to be tortured. That is an absolute right that is accepted as a universal right. How many people did the fellow travellers of the party opposite deny that human right to? So I am not going to take that from any Member opposite when it comes to rights.”
“I have stated my position and made it clear that I think that we have a strong human rights framework in Northern Ireland. We have two bodies, established in law, that are dedicated to the protection of human rights and equality. We are one of the most human rights- and fairness-compliant societies in the world. It is important.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She and I served together for many years on Belfast City Council, where people from different and disparate backgrounds had to work together because nobody had a majority. That was just the nature of the place. She talked about respect and disrespect.”
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“I welcome the launch of the three-year plan. Will the Minister give us a greater idea of what he hopes to achieve in increasing uptake? Precisely why do we need an uptake plan?”
“Does the Minister recall this policy document, endorsed by the people, which is the DUP manifesto? In it, we stated that we wanted a Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, not an EU police force. Does she agree that it will be a source of great joy for farmers, fishermen and the agrifood sector that they will no longer be subjected to the burdensome and cumbersome regulations emanating from the European Union bureaucracy?”
“Following the success of the Belfast Tattoo recently, we saw that bands form an essential part of the Ulster-Scots tradition, whether they be fife and drum bands, flute bands or pipe bands. Can the Minister detail what, if any, additional resources the Department for Communities has allocated or intends to allocate to that sector?”
“Can the deputy First Minister confirm that, in the process of consultation for this Programme for Government, this is the highest level of engagement there has been in the history of drafting a Programme for Government and that, by allowing groups to comment on the draft framework and then the draft programme, we are effectively giving consultees two bites of the cherry in making their views known?”
“I am grateful to my friend for giving way. Unfortunately, the Member for South Belfast would not give way to me, but when she refers to people who voted to leave the European Union as being about getting at Johnny Foreigner, do you agree with me that that is precisely the type of sneering, arrogant comment that cost "Remain" the referendum; sneering at ordinary voters and accusing them of being closet racists because they did not vote the way that you wanted them to vote?”
“— and running off to the courts will not change that. I urge the opposition within the Opposition to get with the programme and let us start working to make the best outcome for Northern Ireland.”
“Now, Robin. The Chief Whip needs to calm himself because he was on the same side as me during the referendum. He is responsible for party discipline, but he was at one with the Democratic Unionist Party, which I welcome. <BR /> <BR />What we have heard and seen from various parties since the referendum amounts to an undemocratic attempt to overturn the verdict that the people have given. It is in all our interests — the people of Northern Ireland and the people of the United Kingdom — that we accept the outcome and now work together to produce the best — I said the best; do not wave your document at me — possible outcomes for the people of Northern Ireland. I know that we will hear a continuous stream of denial and anger about the reality, but the people made their decision —”
“The bark from the dog betrays the fact that it has been hit. The roar of the beast gives away its guilt. I am glad and grateful —”
“He should take a straw poll of the members and voters who voted for the Ulster Unionist Party in recent elections. I think he would find that not only within unionism but within Ulster Unionism was the "Remain" viewpoint certainly in a minority. We have this attempt to cover the blushes —”
“All parties, including those that were on the "Remain" side in the referendum, have a role to play to ensure that Northern Ireland secures the best possible outcome. That is what a responsible Government are doing, and it is what a responsible Opposition should be about. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, we have not seen that in the vision that has been offered to us by the Ulster Unionist Party. The truth of the matter, Mr Aiken tells us, is that his party recommended "Remain". It is true to say it did. It is true to say that the leadership of his party did. I suggest to Mr Aiken that he should take a straw poll of his colleagues sitting round him at the bottom of the Chamber. He should take a straw poll of Ulster Unionist councillors around Northern Ireland.”
“I wish the same could be said for the other opposition parties because there seems to be opposition within the Opposition to accepting the outcome of the result. I do not really know what stage some of our more enthusiastic Europhile friends are at. Some are still in denial. Some are very angry, largely with the people who beat them in the argument during the campaign. Some are trying to bargain by saying, "Well, maybe article 50 will not be triggered", "Maybe this will happen" and "Maybe that will happen". Some have reached depression, and some will eventually — finally — have to reach acceptance of the decision that was taken by the people of the United Kingdom as a whole in the referendum. The sooner we get to that point, the better it will be.”
“What we have seen from our friends since they published their document are largely uncosted, untested ideas that they know they will not be able to pay for. They know that the resource is not there. During the contribution from Mr Aiken, he referred to quantitative easing, so we are just going to print more money. Just print more money to pay for their ideas: that is the extent of the ambition of the Ulster Unionist Party's "vision". <BR /> <BR />Since the referendum, we have witnessed from those on the "Remain" side of the campaign a public display of the five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, finally, acceptance. I welcome the fact that Mr Aiken has been dragged kicking and screaming to the final stage: acceptance.”
“It is always a pleasure to follow the Member for South Antrim, for his contributions are always so entertaining. He denigrates the Government of Northern Ireland who have served for the last nine years, whilst, of course, conveniently glossing over the fact that the party he is a member of served in the same Government for that period. If he is saying that the Government failed to deliver, he must take responsibility at least for the Ulster Unionist Party's portion of their failure to deliver. A little less of the revision of history would be more welcome from the Ulster Unionist spokesperson. <BR /> <BR />Any old Opposition can produce uncosted plans: having a costed and sensible plan is the action of a Government-in-waiting. This is no Government-in-waiting.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Can she give us an update on how the services at the Royal's A&E are working as they take up the slack following the decision on A&E provision at the City Hospital?”
“Will the First Minister outline for the House just how important she considers the role of Executive Ministers to be in ensuring and maintaining confidence in Northern Ireland as a destination for investors?”
“A lot of the predictions made regarding the economic impact of the decision on Brexit have come to nothing. A recession is defined as being two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Someone in the Chamber said that we had been plunged into a recession and that is clearly not the case. In maximising the opportunities presented by the decision, will the deputy First Minister outline to the House what message the Executive will be conveying to overseas investors about Northern Ireland being a good place to do business?”
“I appreciate that. Does the Member agree that, throughout the debate, the only contribution that sought to divide the House in terms of orange and green came from our friend in the corner who is supposed to be neither, but red?”
“In vast swathes of my constituency, if you are a man under 30 with no dependants, you can forget about it because it is just not going to happen. We need to make some provision and give some recognition to that group of people in order that they can stay in the place where they were born and reared. <BR /> <BR />We all know the reasons why the system was introduced — there is no need to rehash or rehearse them — but I believe that we have moved forward as a society to the point where meaningful reform of the system can be introduced that will command the support of every party in the House. I welcome the motion, and I thank — I nearly said, "I thank Councillor McCann" — Fra McCann for bringing it.”
“The Member is absolutely right. We have all seen that before. People who claim intimidation points are oftentimes those who, as I said, were making the lives of their neighbours wretched. They are so intimidated that, as he said, they want merely to move a few streets away or a couple of hundred yards from the place where they were supposedly being intimidated. <BR /> <BR />As public representatives, we have seen all of the many flaws that there are in the system. I welcome the fact that the Minister is here today, and I hope that he will be able to answer some of the questions that have been raised. One of the issues that I have had experience of as a constituency representative relates, in particular, to young men who want to live in the place where they were born.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the issues that have already been mentioned — I think that it is important — is the abuse of the whole area of intimidation. As has been said, you will suddenly see a massive rise in claims of intimidation when housing is about to be released. The thing that has frustrated me many times is that often the people who are awarded the additional points for claiming intimidation are the selfsame people who made the lives of their neighbours and the communities in which they previously lived utterly wretched. People looking at the system —”
“<BR /> <BR />Mention has been made — I agree — of the total lack of dignity that Housing Executive clients are left with when they go through the process of declaring themselves homeless. I have been in situations similar to those that have been described by colleagues around the Chamber. For the person who is representing them and going with them to that experience it is hard, but for the person who is on the receiving end of the process it is humiliating. They have to sit in front of a bureaucrat and pour out the most intimate details of their situation, and, often times, they feel as though they are not getting a response, they are not being spoken to like a human being and they are not being treated fairly or with dignity. Reform of that aspect of the housing allocation system would certainly be welcomed.”
“I say that because, time and again — I think particularly of communities such as Ballynafeigh — people come to me seeking accommodation in the area where they were born and reared, where their family network is and where they have roots in the community, but, because of the blunt way in which the points system operates, they find that impossible. For example, if you are looking for something in Annadale, you will need 200 points-plus to be certain of getting something there. People who were born and reared in those communities oftentimes find it impossible to stay in them, and I hope that, as we reform the system, some recognition, at least, will be afforded to the desires of those who want to live in the area where they were born and reared in the points system.”
“No. One of the reasons is that, as a Belfast Assembly Member, I know, like my colleague from East Belfast Mr Andy Allen, that the huge majority of my time is spent dealing with housing issues. I am sure that that will be a common experience across the city, although I suspect that, for most Assembly Members, a huge chunk of their time is taken up by housing matters. <BR /> <BR />One important issue that has not yet been touched on in the debate is the way in which the present points system actively undermines the sustainability of communities.”
“I am happy to support the motion, and I thank Fra McCann for bringing it before the Assembly. It is timely that he has done so. The Committee for Communities has an over-representation of Belfast Assembly Members, and I think that one of the reasons for that is that all of the best people are on that Committee”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for a Member to question the integrity of a Minister?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. The Minister outlined earlier that the Executive will work very closely to ensure the best possible outcomes following the vote in the European referendum. He will be aware that the Finance Minister in Wales advocated a "Remain" vote but that the majority of Welsh people voted to leave. Does he agree that, regardless of the position of the Government of Wales, the Finance Minister in his country will be doing his best to work for the benefit of the people of Wales and that that is what the Executive should do as well?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. A Member from Belfast South said that the people she has been speaking to have all been in agreement with her that this is a dreadful thing. Is that not exactly what was wrong with the "Remain" campaign: you talked only to people who agreed with you?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. When I was on the referendum programme on the night that the votes were being counted, the very first thing that I said was this: "I love my country, and I believe that the people who voted to remain love their country as well". I do not think that anyone will be able to point to anything that either I or any of my colleagues have said that disparages people who voted to remain.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Would he agree with me that a party that advocated joining the euro is in no position to lecture the rest of us on economics?”
“She mentioned youth unemployment. Can she tell me what the youth unemployment rate is in Greece?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. I do not recall, at any point during the referendum campaign, those who argued for "Remain" telling us that we should stay in for fear that David Cameron might resign or that Jeremy Corbyn would be subject to a coup. You referenced the trouble at Westminster; those are entirely internal party political matters for the Tories and Labour.”
“To go down that road and ignore the democratic verdict of the people of this United Kingdom would be a grave mistake.”
“I know what it is like to lose an election, and I know what it is like to be on the losing side of a referendum. Those who just assumed that the people would do as they were told should accept the verdict of the people. <BR /> <BR />Over the last 48 hours, we have heard all sorts of crazy and interesting ideas on how the people's verdict can be overturned. We had a Labour MP saying that Parliament should simply ignore it because it was only an advisory and non-binding referendum, and I have no doubt that we will hear some of that today.”
“No. I will give way later. <BR /> <BR />It was a cross-section of people drawn from my own party, the TUV and UKIP, and, I am delighted to say, a good many Ulster Unionist Members were out with us, making the case for leaving the European Union. <BR /> <BR />We have heard that this is a time for seriousness. Well, seriousness requires that we have discussion and reasoned argument in the Chamber; we do not run off to 'The Irish News' saying that the Union is under threat, because we were on the losing side of the referendum, as some have chosen to do. The reality is that the people of this country were offered a choice, and they made their choice. I say this to those who were on the opposing side: had the vote gone the other way, I would have had to take it on the chin and move on.”
“<BR /> <BR />I enjoyed the campaign. The "Leave" campaign in Northern Ireland attracted —”
“In the end, we got 30.5%, and I knew when I saw the record turnouts in places like Donegall Pass; Sandy Row; the Donegall Road; the Woodstock Road — even in the Braniel, where I live — that ordinary people, who do not come out and vote at election time, were fired-up to come out and vote in this referendum, because they were fed up with being ignored by the media and political elite; fed up with being treated with contempt. <BR /> <BR />Since the result was announced, I have heard some of the worst denigration of our older population. It is disgraceful to hear people say that older people should not have the vote, or that they have betrayed the future of the young. It is because of the effort of the older people of this country that the young have a future to look forward to and to treat them with such contempt is disgraceful.”
“I think it is fair to look at the opposing sides in this campaign. On one side was Goldman Sachs, big business, the EU, the IMF and the political establishment of this country. They were convinced that it was in the bag, convinced that the case for staying in the European Union was so self-evident that no person could ever dare to vote against it. Well, they got their answer on Friday morning. The ordinary people of this country, who for years have been sneered at and ignored by the political and media establishment of this country, their values held in contempt and simple things like love of country held up as foolishness, had their say. <BR /> <BR />I knew that it would be an uphill climb in my own constituency, and I said that I would be pleased if we got above 28% for "Leave".”
“What happened over the weekend was an exercise in democracy. The people of the United Kingdom, from every corner of the United Kingdom, were, for the first time in 40 years, given their chance to have their say on the continuation of our country's membership of the European Union.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. A previous statement from the Chair advised all Members that they should, at all times, refer to other Members by their correct and proper title. Do you judge it outwith that recommendation for the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party to use the term "First Ministers"? There is a First Minister and a deputy First Minister.”
“Does the Member agree that there was almost unanimity around the Chamber on the issues that we were debating? It is unfortunate that the Member for East Belfast, and the Member for North Down who is no longer in his place, decided to introduce an element of partisan politics into the discussion. That actually demeaned the issues that were being discussed.”
“Does the Minister accept that, in this day and age, it may not be beyond the realms of possibility that the data can be processed? No one is talking about everyone's criminal record being available to any person selling animals. Surely it cannot be beyond the realms of possibility that convictions that relate specifically to animal cruelty can be kept on a register that can be accessed by those responsible for the trade in animals?”
“I will. We certainly should not allow a situation to exist in which such people would ever have access to animals again.”
“In that simple way, through a small step that did not cost a lot, we aimed to increase public awareness of how to report cruelty to animals. <BR /> <BR />The motion mentions a register, which I absolutely support. Concerns have been expressed about data protection and what have you. Ultimately, I believe that, if people takes it upon themselves to torture, mutilate or starve an animal, frankly, whatever considerations there may be about protecting their data, the balance of the law should not be on their side. We certainly should not allow a situation to exist —”
“The outlawing of that practice — I am glad that the Justice Minister is still in her place — would send a very powerful message about the attitude of society. A vigilant public is a watchful guardian against animal cruelty. A recent Millward Brown survey that was carried out for the USPCA showed that very few people were aware of whom they reported animal cruelty to or who the responsible authority for dealing with it was. <BR /> <BR />In a previous guise, I served on Belfast City Council for 11 years, along with the Member for North Belfast. I am glad that the council supported and pushed through a simple measure that cost only £10,000, which was the provision of a sticker to go on every ratepayer's bin in the city advertising the telephone number to call if people suspected animal cruelty or neglect.”
“<BR /> <BR />What we are aiming for and what everyone would like to see is a societal attitudinal change on how we treat animals. Education is important, which is why I am pleased that one of the policies that we detailed in the DUP animal welfare policy during the election was the importance of responsible pet ownership being taught in schools. That is a good idea. In this Assembly term, we should look at the provision of resources to young people and children and educating them as to how they should look after the animals that they want to keep as pets. <BR /> <BR />Speaking to our culture and attitudes, I believe that, in this day and age, there is absolutely no place for circuses that use wild animals.”
“I think that that is right. It is right that we have a moral obligation to protect animals from cruelty, neglect and ill treatment by others. <BR /> <BR />Over recent times, there has been an increasing awareness of our obligations in that regard. All Members will have been deeply horrified by the case of Cody the dog who was burned so cruelly by evil and wicked people. In my constituency — I am sure that Members from all 18 constituencies can attest to this — we have reported to us horrific instances of animal cruelty, be that animals being starved, beaten or mistreated. It impresses on us, therefore, the need to act. A deterrent is important, which is why I welcome the measures that have been taken in toughening up sentencing, but it can go only so far.”
“Concern about the welfare of animals is nothing new. In fact, we can be proud that, in this part of the world, the first animal welfare legislation was introduced in 1635. Throughout history, people have always been concerned about the welfare of animals because we recognise that we have a duty to them to protect them. In the words of Bernard Rollin, a pre-eminent animal rights activist:”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was listed to ask a question to the Minister of Finance. Unfortunately, a family emergency took me away from the House. I apologise to the House for not being in my place during the Finance Minister's Question Time.”
“<BR /> <BR />All of us want to create a system where people are treated fairly and are not exploited whilst maintaining the rights that people have over their property. I am not a landlord, but I understand that, if people own property, we cannot tie them in red tape either. This is a delicate but important area of public policy, and it is essential for all our constituents that we strike the right balance between protecting people and protecting the rights of landlords. <BR /> <BR />I have one final point. I am a South Belfast representative, and we have seen there what happens when landlords get it wrong.”
“This is one area where local government has a role: increasing people's awareness of their rights if they are in the private rented sector. <BR /> <BR />The Department is in the process — I am sure that we will hear more from the Minister on this — of reviewing the progress that has been made in this area, and I welcome that. We must not lose sight of the fact that we are talking about a sector that accounts for more than 100,000 properties throughout Northern Ireland, so it is in everyone's interest — landlord and tenant alike — that we set in place rules and regulations that allow the full potential of those 100,000 properties to be exploited for the purpose of solving or at least making a contribution to solving the problem of housing, which is very real in constituencies like mine and Nichola Mallon's.”