Paul Givan
Lagan Valley · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The EA's enhanced support model has been out for consultation. The Member's party is the largest political grouping on the Education Authority, so his party supported the model's being consulted on.”
“Protections around strike action and action short of strike are firmly established in statute for all workers, including teachers. If the Member is referring to the Education Inspections Bill, let me be clear: nothing in that legislation removes or undermines that right.”
“The issue was covered at length at the Education Committee. The position is still not where it ought to be. When I came into office, the position that I inherited was much worse than it is today.”
“It is an area that I have had to navigate, as have many previous Education Ministers. Industrial relations is an area that needs ongoing work. I have outlined how we can address it, but I come back to saying that, when workload was undefined, trade unions struggled to specify the challenge.”
“That is not a fair characterisation. In fact, I was with Justin McCamphill, the leader of NASUWT, at the launch of the curriculum reform, at which he commended me for it and said that he thought that it was good. I have sat in many a meeting with trade union representatives during which they have said, "This is a good initiative.”
“That is exactly why there is a 16-week consultation period, rather than the normal 12 weeks or the minimum eight weeks; to allow the public and teaching profession to very much engage in that curriculum, which I commend to all Members.”
The complete record
Every one of 6,258 lines we hold for Paul Givan, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 25 of 126.
“They just need to calm down. We hear the anger.”
“That proves the double standard that we have become well accustomed to from Sinn Féin. We will not be lectured by Sinn Féin on such things.”
“The Member is interested in genocide. Why was the Chair of Fermanagh and Omagh District Council, Barry McElduff, in China last week? You are concerned about genocide: let us look at the genocide of the Uyghur community that is taking place in China? China has that community engaged in forced labour in camps. There are forced sterilisations, mass arbitrary detentions, cultural and religious erasure, surveillance and family separation. If we are to have consistency on genocide, where is her condemnation of her own colleague for going to China?”
“and drown out a different opinion because they do not like what is being said. It is interesting. If we lived in a truly liberal society, we would respect other people's opinions, but there is no respect shown by those who claim to be liberals. Instead, it is a case of let us have that domination of a contrary opinion. Suppress them so that they do not feel comfortable in saying it. Regrettably, for those opposite and others in the Chamber, I am not one of those people who yields to the kind of bullying and intimidation that I have witnessed from many Members in the House.”
“Members, again, want to shout down the message. The tactic for the past four or five days has been to holler abuse”
“It would have been very strange for us to visit Israel but not take the opportunity to visit a school. That visit was organised and facilitated by the hosts.”
“Many of them could not talk because of how they had been traumatised. Children have been traumatised in the Middle East. They have been used and abused in Gaza and weaponised by Hamas terrorists, the very same terrorists with whom Mr Sheehan was photographed.”
“It was remarkable how the Israeli education system had established those facilities to try to react to that. Do you know what they said about the experience of those children when they came back to school?”
“It was also interesting to hear on the visit that, as a result of what happened on 7 October, 45,000 children were displaced, because there were movements of people from northern and southern Israel. They all had to leave their schools.”
“It builds terrorist infrastructure and uses the children as human shields. That is what Hamas does.”
“— because of the rocket attacks that have been inflicted on them by Hamas. What does Hamas do in its schools? It indoctrinates its children to kill Jews, saying, "Death to Israel".”
“When it comes to the visit, I know very clearly which side he is on. I commend and pay tribute to him. <BR /> <BR />When we visited the school, we heard how the children have to actively practise fleeing to the bomb shelter —”
“I thank Dr Aiken for the question. I also commend him for going on the visit and making a Member's statement about it.”
“The Alliance Party would do well to remove the shackles of the extreme left wing and the likes of Gerry Carroll, who is leading them.”
“It is interesting that the Alliance Party, proponents of integrated education, are hostile towards a visit to an integrated school. When I was in Israel, I had the opportunity to meet a member of the Opposition in the Knesset. He talked about how, eight years ago, when he had responsibility for education, he brought 25 Arab principals and 25 Jewish principals here to gain insight into Northern Ireland. In Jerusalem, I witnessed people — Arab communities, Jewish communities and people from the Armenian Christian Church and Orthodox Christian Church — living side by side, navigating their differences, in a very diverse way. That is far from the malign intent of an "apartheid regime" in what is, indeed, the only democratic country in the Middle East.”
“The Member should listen to the Ulster Farmers' Union's position on her own party's Agriculture Minister and his suitability for that ministerial office. <BR /> <BR />Members have set a very low bar for passing no-confidence motions. Indeed, one Minister is elected, with cross-community support, by the Assembly, so be careful what you wish for. <BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party now allows Gerry Carroll to lead it. Maybe that is part of the internal discussions: we all know what is going on in the Alliance Party. It is now being led by Gerry Carroll, who, on 7 October, tweeted, "Victory to the Palestinian Resistance". There has been no condemnation of Gerry Carroll from Michelle Guy — no condemnation whatsoever. <BR /> <BR />I have explained the basis of the visit.”
“Sinn Féin needs to get the message very clearly: it is the unionist people of Northern Ireland who have elected my party and put me in this position. I will never be dictated to by Sinn Féin, particularly not by the likes of Pat Sheehan.”
“I note that the Member, who is also the Deputy Chair of the Education Committee, did not ask a question — not one question — about the Department. I am here to be held to account as Education Minister for the element of the trip that related to my Education portfolio. I am not here to be held to account by a convicted terrorist who supports Hamas terrorists. You will not hold me to account: I will hold you to account for your terrorism. <BR /> <BR />What has Mr Sheehan done in his past? He has met Hamas and been pictured with Khaled Mashal. What did Khaled Mashal say in respect of 7 October and concern for Palestinian lives? A member of Hamas, with whom Pat Sheehan has been photographed, said that lost Palestinian lives are a necessary sacrifice. Do not give me crocodile tears. You have been pictured with, and support, Hamas terrorists.”
“That limited involvement was deemed to be appropriate given the need to manage the Israel trip within my broader ministerial diary and to cancel other engagements. My permanent secretary reviewed the press release pertaining to the school visit that was published by the Department. He concluded that it had no political content and was directly related to my portfolio, and therefore approved my request.”
“I thank the Member for that question. As I said, my permanent secretary has assessed the role of the Department in assisting with the organisation of the trip. My private office liaised with the organisers to confirm travel logistics and to relay my travel requests. That support was minimal and administrative in nature, and, in total, it is estimated to have amounted to less than one hour of Civil Service time.”
“That is the position of my senior officials and the permanent secretary.”
“I challenge the Member or any Member to point out in the press release what the political message was. There was no political message. The objection is that I visited a school in Israel. That is the objection from Members who are opposed to this. There is nothing in the press release that had any political connotation whatsoever. It is an integrated school where Jews, Arabs and Christians are educated together. Those who are opposed to the visit now manufacture this outcry. What I can say is that my permanent secretary and senior officials have carried out a review of my engagements on the visit. They have concluded that review and given a clean bill of health not just to me as Minister but to every civil servant in my Department, whose actions were entirely appropriate.”
“In light of that relevance, I requested that the Department issue a factual press release to share the inclusive education practice that I observed. That communication was strictly non-political and focused solely on the educational aspects of the visit. No departmental resources were used to publicise any political message.”
“I had the opportunity to visit Israel last week. What I was able to bear witness to was intolerable suffering and loss of life at the hands of terrorists. Across the Middle East conflict in Gaza, Palestinians have suffered terribly and endured loss of life, with Hamas using and abusing its own population as human shields. <BR /> <BR />I was formally invited by the Government of Israel to participate in a delegation from devolved nations. No public funds were spent on the visit. The trip was planned and organised by the Israeli embassy. No departmental officials participated in the trip overall or in the visit to Ofek School that was organised by the hosts. The school visit was directly relevant to my ministerial portfolio and provided valuable insights into pedagogy and practice.”
“<BR /> <BR />That is why the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland and I are appalled by the manufactured outrage of the extreme left, led by Gerry Carroll, who, on 7 October, tweeted, "Victory to the Palestinian Resistance". He never once apologised, and, yet, he is now supported by the Alliance Party, the SDLP and Sinn Féin. Sinn Féin does not surprise me: terrorists supporting terrorists will never come as a surprise to me. However, I will continue to raise my voice for the innocents who were slaughtered in Israel on 7 October.”
“What was his message? "I just want peace, and I want the people of Lebanon to prosper". I visited Madjal Shams and the Druze community, an Arab sect of the Shiite variety, where 12 innocent children were killed by a rocket fired by Hezbollah. I visited Nir Oz, and Rita showed us around the site of one of the most appalling atrocities that took place on 7 October: 117 people from that very small village were either murdered or taken hostage, including an 84-year-old man, who was killed in captivity. I went to the Nova music festival site, where 378 young people were gunned down and 44 taken hostage. I listened to Yair recount how he managed to escape, but the trauma lives on. Those are just some of the voices, and that human story needs to be heard about what is happening in Israel.”
“I associate myself with the remarks made by Dr Aiken and make a similar declaration of interest. Last week, I had the privilege of visiting Israel and hearing the stories of human tragedy in that community. Today, I put on record some of the voices that I heard. Just as others seek to silence them and cancel them, I will make sure that their voices are heard. <BR /> <BR />The visit started at Yad Vashem, the national Holocaust memorial for the six million Jews slaughtered during the Second World War and remembered at that centre in Israel, the only place and home where Jews can survive after centuries of persecution. I visited Malkia, a kibbutz in northern Israel that Hezbollah repeatedly targeted, year after year after year. I listened to Boaz, who recounted the horrors of many of the atrocities inflicted on his community.”
“However, that guidance would have been much better informed by health professionals, the Children's Commissioner and the Children's Law Centre being engaged in the process rather than withdrawing from it and running to the media to make commentary. Instead, they should have remained engaged. That would have resulted in a better outcome for the final guidance that I will publish.”
“I do not accept that at all, and nor do the school principals and the teaching professionals who take a different view from that of the Children's Commissioner, the Children's Law Centre and the RCN. They do not agree with that analysis either. Has the Member listened to the teaching profession? Has he listened to those who have to give operational effect, in their school settings, to the very difficult circumstances that they face? I would be very interested to know the Member's position if he listened to the principals and made the same comments to them as he has made in the Chamber today. <BR /> <BR />The issue is difficult to navigate. We need to find the right balance. Those who operate the system need clarity, and, therefore, it is my intention to produce guidance.”
“That is a matter for them to explain, but it is a retrograde step that I certainly do not support.”
“Not only have those two organisations withdrawn, but health organisations have withdrawn. It is really disappointing that they have withdrawn. When people walk away from the table and no longer wish to engage, it does a disservice to the people affected by the important issues that we are trying to deal with. <BR /> <BR />It is a very sensitive issue. I have often heard about the challenges that some of our young people face, but I have also heard about the very difficult challenges that many staff in our school settings face. Trying to strike the right balance will be grounded in human rights — but that is the human rights of all those who are impacted on. The Commissioner for Children and Young People, the Children's Law Centre and others should not have withdrawn.”
“<BR /> <BR />While flexibility will be applied to account for local circumstances, I highlight the fact that the underlying rationale of integrated education is to ensure a reasonable balance that promotes equality. The aspiration remains to move towards the 40:40:20 balance of Protestant, Catholic and others over time, as recommended by the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE), although it is acknowledged that that might not always be immediately achievable. I refer Members to the written ministerial statement in which I addressed the issue of reasonable numbers. A written ministerial statement about the court judgement will be issued to the Assembly imminently.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Consideration of reasonable numbers is guided by the legislative framework set out in the Education Reform Order 1989, the Alliance Party's Integrated Education Act 2022 and the principles of integrated education. As a general principle, my Department will expect schools transforming to integrated status to demonstrate the ability to attract at least 10% of their year 1 or year 8 intake from the minority religion in the first year of transformation. Alternatively, schools should aim for 15% of the combined number of Protestant and Catholic pupils in year 1 or year 8. Evidence must also be provided that the proportion is likely to increase over the next seven years, with the aspiration of achieving a reasonable balance between the two groups.”
“Yes, but the Member is tempting me to criticise in particular my good friends in the Alliance Party, although there are others. I am going to resist that temptation today. Rather, I will quote directly from the summary of the High Court's decision. It states:”
“I do not want to single out MLAs today, but one suggested that they were disappointed at my misreading of the Act. Mr Speaker, you would be surprised if you heard who said that, given their role in drafting the legislation, or, perhaps, you would not. Another said that the Minister seemed to have got hung up on one particular criterion. To say that those comments have not aged well may be regarded as something of an understatement.”
“I have not yet received an apology, but I have no doubt that when those who commented earlier in the year have the opportunity to read the full judgement, they will be in touch. Professional courtesy demands no less. However, I assure those Members that I will accept any such apologies, and I will not then take every opportunity to point out their errors. If Members are unclear about who is required to apologise, they should feel free to speak with me, as I have compiled a comprehensive and extensive list.”
“The ruling sets a significant precedent for future integrated education proposals and reaffirms the importance of legal and evidential rigour in shaping Northern Ireland's educational landscape. The full comprehensive judgement is available to read on the Judiciary NI website.”
“I cannot approve a proposal for a school to transform to integrated status unless I consider it likely that reasonable numbers of Protestant and Catholic pupils presently exist or will be achieved. That was confirmed in the judgement. <BR /> <BR />I did not want my decisions to end up in court, and I am disappointed that they did, particularly given the fact that the judge observed that the judicial review, when carefully examined, was an attempt by some proponents of integrated education to effect a reversal of the realistic stance that was taken by me. Nevertheless, I welcome the clear and comprehensive ruling by the High Court, and I remain committed to encouraging, facilitating and supporting integrated education as defined in the law.”
“I thank the Member for that question. Members will note that a decision was made by the High Court not to grant leave for a full judicial review of my decisions on the development proposals for the two Bangor schools that wished to transform to integrated status. The court's comprehensive judgement answers many of the questions that Members raised at the time concerning my decisions and the criticisms that were made of them. It also confirms that I acted within the law and the powers given to me under the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989 and Alliance's Integrated Education Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, as I am required to do, and that my interpretation of the law, particularly around the requirement for reasonable numbers of pupils from Protestant and Catholic backgrounds, was correct.”
“Increasingly, principals can demonstrate that, where they have flexibility in the allocation of resources for the employment and recruitment of the appropriate staff, there are better ways of doing so than the current system allows. We need to find ways to empower schools to take those decisions in a more timely way, and we need to make the processes that need to be followed to secure additional support less bureaucratic. Ultimately, that will lead to a better educational outcome for the children. The best interests of the children and young people that we have to support should drive the processes around special educational needs, and I will shortly bring a paper to the Executive on how we can do that.”
“I have just outlined the work that we have been doing, and I commend that response to the Member. Having met a number of principals and SENCOs in schools, I agree that the time that SENCOs have to spend in completing educational statements and advocating for resources to be provided to children is excessive. That is a process issue with the Education Authority. I therefore very much welcome the Education Committee's looking at that area, because I have sought to shine a spotlight on how I can make improvements and support those in the education system. It is a welcome opportunity for the Education Committee to carry out that work. That will help me, and, more importantly, it will help the children and young people. <BR /> <BR />There is another piece of work on special educational needs on which I will take a paper to the Executive.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also published the SEN capital programme and have placed it on the agenda for the Executive. It is a £1·7 billion, 10-year plan. It not only addresses the short-term, responsive challenge but looks to how we meet the long-term plans. That paper has not yet been approved to be on the agenda. The deputy First Minister has approved it, and I certainly would like it to be approved for the Executive to support, because that would demonstrate our commitment to supporting those, and especially our teachers, who are involved in providing that critical work for children with special educational needs.”
“I will be keen to hear the exact evidence that the Member has sought to frame and characterise in the way that she has done. Addressing special educational needs is a huge challenge. We have published a reform agenda and a delivery plan, all of which have been worked through. We had the SEN end-to-end review, which we have taken forward with the other delivery plans. We have secured funding of £27 million through the transformation budget. Although that is not sufficient, it will allow us to make progress. Securing placements for a lot of children with special educational needs has been increasingly difficult over the past two years, but, through an incredible amount of work and willingness by schools to engage, we have been able to do that.”
“That is a good question, because that is often an issue. We provide financial support, but how will we keep the young people who have gained the qualification so that they will, so to speak, pay it back to society, which has helped to pay for the course? We are very much looking at that. I believe that I have a legal pathway to make that a condition on which someone would be granted eligibility for such a bursary. The legal side of that aspect is being worked through, and I believe that we will be able to get that condition, which will be for a minimum of two years.”
“Forgive me if I have not quite followed the question. I can be corrected, but, if the question is about providing support to those who are already in the teaching colleges, the answer is no. These are for new teachers. It is in order that, where there are shortages — the shortage in the Irish-medium sector relates to post-primary, and that is why it applies to post-primary — we can try to make sure that we attract people. The reason that the key subject areas are being supported is to try to attract where there is a challenge attracting people in. I appreciate that those who are currently in teaching colleges would want it to apply to them, but we have to target our limited resources to where there is a critical need. The way to ensure that the scheme works is to recruit new people into the teaching colleges in those key areas.”
“By supporting teacher recruitment in those key subjects, we are safeguarding the future in STEM education and ensuring that our young people have access to the full breadth of learning opportunities, as well as supporting post-primary Irish-medium education more generally. The pilot scheme will be subject to a full evaluation, and future strategic workforce planning will continue to monitor teacher supply across all subject areas. That will inform any necessary adjustments to ensure that the scheme remains responsive to evolving needs.”
“The pilot bursary scheme for initial teacher education represents a strategic investment in our education system and economy. It is designed to address critical teacher shortages in key post-primary subjects, namely mathematics, chemistry, physics, computing and technology and design, and in Irish-medium education. That substantial financial support totals £8·2 million of investment over a five-year period. It will fund over 130 places and is a key commitment in delivering my TransformED strategy. <BR /> <BR />From September 2026, eligible students on the postgraduate certificate in education (PGCE) courses will receive up to £17,000 a year, while Bachelor of Education undergraduates will have their tuition fees paid each year in full at a bursary value of approximately £20,000.”
“That certainly has been the experience of those pupils at St Ronan's in respect of the mobile phone pilot scheme that is being rolled out there. Therefore, that will all be taken into account, where young people can feed into it. However, I appreciate that, until you feel and see that change and the outworkings of it, there will be an apprehension about what it means.”
“I did not realise that we had that in common. <BR /> <BR />There is stakeholder engagement for young people to feed in their views. The consultation is open to everybody to do that, and of course that will all be taken into account and considered. <BR /> <BR />This is not the first time that I have had some disagreement in my house. The mobile phone policy was another one on which I had interesting debates in my house. By way of example, I visited St Ronan's College in Lurgan, one of our largest schools in Northern Ireland, which is participating in the mobile phone pilot scheme. Some of the pupils who had had apprehension and did not agree with the scheme are now very much advocates for it. I appreciate that sometimes people cannot see what benefit the change will deliver until they have experienced that change.”
“The consultation is open until 13 November. When it closes, there will be a period of analysis that officials will carry out. We will draw on that analysis and other evidence. I then intend to confirm my policy framework intentions early in 2026. Once that process has concluded and I have taken decisions in respect of it, CCEA Regulation would be required to prepare a regulatory framework from which CCEA, the awarding organisation, would undertake a full revision of its qualifications. Previously, that process has taken a minimum of two years prior to the roll-out of new specifications. Again, I will just emphasise that I have not made decisions in respect of those matters.”