← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · FORMER

Paul Givan

Lagan Valley · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

The EA's enhanced support model has been out for consultation. The Member's party is the largest political grouping on the Education Authority, so his party supported the model's being consulted on.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-22 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

Protections around strike action and action short of strike are firmly established in statute for all workers, including teachers. If the Member is referring to the Education Inspections Bill, let me be clear: nothing in that legislation removes or undermines that right.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-22 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

The issue was covered at length at the Education Committee. The position is still not where it ought to be. When I came into office, the position that I inherited was much worse than it is today.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-22 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

It is an area that I have had to navigate, as have many previous Education Ministers. Industrial relations is an area that needs ongoing work. I have outlined how we can address it, but I come back to saying that, when workload was undefined, trade unions struggled to specify the challenge.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-22 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

That is not a fair characterisation. In fact, I was with Justin McCamphill, the leader of NASUWT, at the launch of the curriculum reform, at which he commended me for it and said that he thought that it was good. I have sat in many a meeting with trade union representatives during which they have said, "This is a good initiative.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-22 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

That is exactly why there is a 16-week consultation period, rather than the normal 12 weeks or the minimum eight weeks; to allow the public and teaching profession to very much engage in that curriculum, which I commend to all Members.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-22 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

The complete record

Every one of 6,258 lines we hold for Paul Givan, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 27 of 126.

  1. It is a matter for the Education Committee to decide how it proceeds with the Bill. Mr Baker was a little bit sensitive to my criticism of the Committee, but I believe that that criticism is well founded. I look forward with interest to the outcome of the Committee's RSE inquiry, which has taken 18 months now. It was meant to be a micro inquiry, yet we are still waiting for its report. We have not yet had a debate on that in the Assembly, and I look forward to responding to it. Its micro inquiry has taken 18 months, yet I am supposed to have confidence in the efficiency and efficacy of the Education Committee to draft its own Bill. Seriously? Perhaps when I am to appear before the Committee next week, it will again be a Star Chamber attacking a Protestant school for two hours.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  2. That the Education Committee is talking about scoping amendments through a Committee Bill before the Bill even comes into operation and before the guidelines are produced — I have assured Members that the guidelines will be shared with schools as a matter of urgency in the coming weeks — demonstrates to me that some of its members have not managed to understand fully what the Bill does. Many of the proposed amendments that did not make it on to the Marshalled List at Consideration Stage were, in my view, technically flawed, conceptually misguided, largely unnecessary and, indeed, potentially unworkable. They are therefore simply not suitable as the basis for legislative provisions if they are ever to reappear in their own Bill. <BR /> <BR />This is about ensuring good law, not wider gestures.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  3. Members have talked throughout the amending stages of the Bill's scrutiny about its being a missed opportunity. Any missed opportunities relate to Members' misunderstanding of the coverage and strength of the draft legislation. It does not simply require a set of guidelines to be sent to schools, which they may, or may not, follow. Prescription of the extent that was sought by Members approaching Consideration Stage and Further Consideration Stage would not have delivered benefits for parents. Placing existing legislation in the Bill is contrary to good drafting conventions and neither strengthens nor provides clarity about how other legislation works with regard to new primary legislation.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  4. Mr Baker will now vote against the Bill and lead the charge internally to get rid of his First Minister who allowed a "defective, weak piece of legislation" to go through on this, "no day for celebration". I look forward to seeing how brave Mr Baker is. I think that I already know the answer to that. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to making the legislation, I have made it clear that I am not a legal expert. Others in the Chamber have said that they are not legal experts. On recent evidence, that can hardly be gainsaid. It has been said that mistakes have been made in legislation previously. Again, to be sure, there is evidence of that, but that does not make it acceptable. Such a description does not apply to the School Uniforms Bill.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  5. Mr Baker has just confirmed that he will vote No. Let us wait and see. When the Division is called, I will see whether Mr Baker votes No and offers himself up as a Teller, or whether he just meekly allows the Bill to go through and then comes off with his highfalutin language that it is all about me. I look forward to his voting No. In fact, not only will he vote against the Bill but he will bring forward a vote of no confidence against the First Minister. That has to be what the three Sinn Féin Committee members do now, because the Bill was brought to the Executive and agreed to by the First Minister — it was placed on the agenda and voted for at the Executive by the First Minister. Then, when it came to Second Stage, it was voted for by Sinn Féin.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  6. The Bill's broad purposes were there. They were in the Bill, which Mr Baker says is not the Executive's Bill or the Assembly's Bill, but my Bill. Well, I do not have the power to create a piece of legislation with only one vote out of 90. Mr Baker can vote against the Bill, and then it will not be his Bill. In fact, if he does not vote against it, it will be his Bill. I will watch for you going through the Noes Lobby.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  7. Indeed, the Assembly, having put things into primary law, had to change them because they were not effective. That process has been found to be a suboptimal way in which to create effective legislation. That is a broader point about how this place should, in my view, conduct its business. The guidance will be effective and the Member will not have long to wait. <BR /> <BR />I know that he wants to come back in. I am happy to give way.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  8. In order to make changes to that, you would need more primary legislation. Guidance, however, can be updated, evolved and changed much more speedily. In the event that guidance is found not to be effective, it can be changed without having to bring forward primary legislation. If other parties get their way and decide, after the next election, to take the Education Department, a new Minister can bring forward guidance and that can follow a process that will not necessitate primary legislation. Our job is to give the legal force behind that guidance, which then has much greater flexibility to incorporate the points that Members have made. The problem with other Members is that they wanted to put things into primary law, which is not as easily changed and amended.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  9. The Member does not have long to wait for the guidelines to come into effect, but, as I indicated in opening the Final Stage debate, we have already engaged with school principals. The Bill will not come as a surprise to schools; indeed, it was a year ago, on 24 September 2024, that we corresponded with all schools, setting out the anticipated requirements of the Bill and associated guidelines and advising schools to get ready. Some schools have already made changes in anticipation of the Bill; indeed, it has already had an impact. We have kept schools informed, so the guidelines coming into being will not come as a surprise to schools. <BR /> <BR />The Member wanted to put specific detail in primary legislation — this is the difference in some of the approaches that Members have articulated.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  10. <BR /> <BR />Addressing the cost of school uniforms is something that should garner support across the Chamber. Broadly speaking, I believe that it does, but I find the narrative from some Members and some parties disappointing, though, I have to concede, not surprising. <BR /> <BR />I began the process with an intention to introduce good legislation that would make a difference to families struggling with cost-of-living crises and the cost of school uniforms. That is what I introduced: good, effective legislation that is informed by experts and does what it needs to do but does not replicate or conflate existing law and does not place in primary legislation requirements that render guidelines unworkable in the real world.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  11. I rise to make the final speech in the Final Stage of the School Uniforms Bill. I thank each Member who has spoken today. At the start of this element of the debate, I pay particular thanks to my officials in the Department of Education for their work. The Bill has involved a significant amount of work, which I prioritised when I first came into office. We needed to make available the necessary support in the Department in order to assemble the team to do that work. That team has engaged in good faith and diligently throughout the process. Officials made themselves available to the Committee: at every request that was made of them, they were there, and they answered the questions to the best of their ability. I put on record my thanks and appreciation for the work of my departmental officials in helping me to get the Bill to this stage.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  12. Schools can certainly do what the Member has articulated.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  13. I thank the Member for giving way. Does she accept that it is entirely within the gift of a school, even today, to make provision for the very issues that she has just articulated, and that that, indeed, will continue to be the case? Through the guidance, schools can consider all those matters and can engage and consult with parents and pupils. Within this, there are references to issues around comfort, and that has to take all those issues into account. Ultimately, however, it will still be for the school to decide. There are schools that have already decided to allow girls the opportunity to wear trousers, if that is what the school wants. The difference here is that some Members wanted to make that mandatory for every school in the legislation, which is a slightly different proposition.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  14. I indicated in my remarks that the guidelines will come within weeks. I also said that my permanent secretary will be issuing communications in anticipation of the Bill's being passed today. What the Chair of the Committee is not highlighting, however, is the fact that the lengthy Committee Stage process was not due to be completed for another number of months. He is holding me to account by saying that I need to get the guidance out right now, yet his Committee's own timescale was to kick the Committee Stage two months down the road. I welcome the challenge that I need to get the guidelines done now, but that was not the degree of urgency that the Committee was looking for when it set out its time frame. I welcomed Sinn Féin's supporting me when the amendment brought forward the period extension.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  15. I am also confident that every Member wants to see that for every family in their constituency. <BR /> <BR />I commend the Bill to the House.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  16. Guidelines will be laid before the Assembly, and a report will be completed at least every three years. <BR /> <BR />Members can be assured that, even without the provisions, I and my Department will monitor the impact of the Bill. I have worked to make a difference by introducing the legislation. Monitoring the impact of the Bill and the associated guidelines is critical to making sure that that happens. I return to my earlier point, which is that I am confident that the impact will be positive for parents. The Bill delivers. My confidence is based on legal expertise: not mine or any other Member's but professional expertise. The School Uniforms Bill is strong and will be effective. If Members vote to support it, it will take effect from the 2026-27 school year.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  17. In addition to a cap, the Bill allows for uniform guidelines to set out what is reasonable or unreasonable for branded items, limited or single suppliers, daywear and PE kit and allows for differentiation to be applied by school type, year group and Key Stage. That is all set out in the Bill's provisions. <BR /> <BR />To say that the Bill has been "diluted" or is a "missed opportunity", as some Members have done, is to misunderstand the strength of the legislation and what it can deliver. The Bill extends eligibility for the uniform grant to pupils in independent schools who cannot currently receive it. It future-proofs, through draft affirmative regulation-making powers, so that, if needed, guidelines can be applied to preschool providers.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  18. A range of information must be published so that transparency is secured. That will include the rationale for uniform design, the cost of uniform items, where the uniform can be purchased from and a range of other matters. <BR /> <BR />The Bill allows for a cap to be set on the number of branded items and/or the cost of uniform items or the total uniform. I have made it clear that further consultation on those details will take place and that the outcome of that consultation will inform the setting of any cap. That is to ensure that any cap is agile and fit for purpose and will remain so.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  19. All existing human rights and equality legislation applies to how the Department writes the guidelines and how schools implement them. The Bill requires that "unfair costs aspects", which it defines, must be addressed. That is explicitly set in the context of affordability for lower-income households. There should be no doubt that the Bill addresses affordability. That is fundamental to how it has been drafted. <BR /> <BR />The Bill also requires that the comfort, practicality, nature and adequacy of clothing being required for a range of school-based activities must be addressed. Uniform policies must address value for money, the lending of uniform and the use of clothing banks. Uniforms must be available from more than one supplier unless evidence is provided that a single-supplier agreement secures value for money for parents.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  20. I know that schools want to do the right thing for their pupils. The guidelines that the Bill requires will be strong, and I trust that schools will follow them fully. <BR /> <BR />The concern about pupils not meeting the full uniform requirements because of cost should not be an ongoing issue. The Bill requires guidelines about school uniform policies to explicitly address a range of matters. That will result in there being more affordable uniforms, designed in consultation with those wearing them and those paying for them. The Bill requires that parents and pupils must be consulted by a school when its uniform policy is being devised, that guidelines must specify how often the policy is to be reviewed and that that, again, requires consultation.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  21. Let me take Members through what the Bill will do. I will be brief, but it is important for Members, even at this late stage, to understand it. The Bill will make the departmental guidelines statutory. It will place a duty on schools not merely to have regard to the guidelines but to adhere to them. It will give a legally enforceable power of direction to the Department should any school decide not to materially follow the guidelines or decide to discipline or exclude its pupils for non-compliance with the uniform policy when they may not be able to afford it. I assure Members that, despite some suggestions to the contrary having been made at Consideration Stage and Further Consideration Stage, there will be no hesitation: where a direction is needed, it will be given. I trust in the professionalism of our schools.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  22. To be clear, I would not have introduced the Bill if I was not determined that the guidelines would work. I am absolutely satisfied that the Bill gives everything needed for the guidelines to work. Nothing is lacking in the Bill. No one should rush to judge its outcome without having the guidelines in operation first. That serves no one well, including parents.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  23. I am content that the Executive's Bill can deliver on the ambition that we set at the beginning of the process. <BR /> <BR />I fully appreciate the Bill's impact on timing, given that school prospectuses will be published in the coming months. I wrote to the Committee to remind it of that. Whether its members are disgruntled about not having seen the draft guidelines, the guidelines will be shared with schools in the coming weeks as a matter of urgency. Guidelines follow the law. Today will determine whether the School Uniforms Bill becomes law.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  24. I repeat my thanks, however, to the Committee for reporting before the summer recess in the end. I know that Committee members took their scrutiny role seriously. <BR /> <BR />No further amendments can now be made to the Bill. Either Members vote to support it as it stands and therefore help families that are struggling with the cost of school uniforms or they do not. That is the decision for the House to make today. Last week, the Committee discussed introducing an amending Bill, without its members taking on board any of the legal information that was provided throughout the process, without their understanding what the Bill enables guidelines to address and without their monitoring the impact of the guidelines once they are introduced.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  25. <BR /> <BR />I know that the Committee for Education wanted to take more time to deliberate over the Bill, but the amendment that my party colleagues tabled on the timing of Committee Stage was important, and the fact that it was agreed to means that, subject to the voting today, the Bill can be in operation in time to make a difference for the 2026-27 school year, which is next year. Without that amendment, the Bill would still be in Committee for up to another two months. There would have been no benefit for parents from the legislation for a further school year. I therefore make no apology for putting the needs of hard-working parents before a leisurely analysis by the Committee, which I do not believe would have resulted in a materially different outcome.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  26. <BR /> <BR />At Second Stage, I set out the level of support for the proposals that underpin the Bill that was expressed through a policy consultation, which received over 7,500 responses. I repeat my thanks to those who responded to it. I thank the range of stakeholders that contributed at Committee Stage. Their voices are important, and I assure them that all voices have been heard. The principles of the Bill were agreed by the Executive prior to its introduction and then approved by the Assembly at Second Stage. Nothing since then has weakened its provisions.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  27. I am pleased that we have now reached the Final Stage of the School Uniforms Bill. I thank each Member who contributed to its scrutiny. Even before I introduced the Bill on 18 February, the need to take action to address the affordability of school uniforms had been expressed from all sides of the House. Despite any misplaced narratives about a diluted Bill or missed opportunities to be prescriptive, the Bill that I commend to the House is strong and appropriate. Once again, I record my thanks to the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) for its diligence and for the significant work that it put into the Bill. I make no apologies for my confidence that the Bill is a strong Bill that will make a difference for parents.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  28. We now have hope for a better future for the people of Israel and a better future for the people of Gaza, free from the tyranny of terrorists who used their own people as human shields. There was no genocide. There was terrorism that used its own people. <BR /> <BR />We are commanded to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. There is a season for everything; a time for peace and a time for war. I trust that the time for war is over and that we will now have that time for peace.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  29. <BR /> <BR />The lands of Canaan were given to the people of Israel by God. It is the Promised Land, surrounded by enemies, the only democracy in the Middle East. Dictatorship and authoritarian regimes abound in those Arab nations, which refused to open their borders to the people of Gaza to let them in. Israel, a diverse community — a pluralist, liberal community, because it is the only democracy in the Middle East — was failed by the United Nations. It was let down. It was let down by the Republic of Ireland and let down by the United Kingdom, who both recognised a Hamas-led Palestinian state. President Trump made the difference. He has delivered peace through strength. The operations in Iran, the work with the Arab nations — he brought them to the table and secured the concessions from Hamas.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  30. We remember October 7, when thousands of Hamas terrorists invaded the state of Israel. Over 1,200 victims were murdered, slaughtered — women and babies — by terrorism. Hundreds were taken hostage, held captive in the dungeons of Gaza. Israel rightly responded and mobilised the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). To the men and women of the IDF, we say, "Thank you". Israel and the rest of the world owe them a debt of gratitude for the work that they have carried out. They have decimated Hamas, and terrorists such as Al-Zawahiri have gone to face judgement in eternity. The Iranian nuclear arms have been destroyed — thank you, Mr Trump, for Operation Midnight Hammer, which destroyed their nuclear facilities. The Houthi leadership has been taken out. Hezbollah bleeped into eternity when their pagers went off. Thank you to the IDF.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  31. On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Member for South Belfast Ms Bradshaw has now left the Chamber, but, during Mr Burrows's contribution, I am confident that I heard her say, from a sedentary position, as Mr Burrows reflected on the terrorist threats that he had to endure that caused him to have to move house, the words "Grow up". Mr Speaker, if possible, I ask you to detect whether that was said, confirm that it was the case and then rule on whether it was appropriate language to have come from the Member for South Belfast.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-10-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  32. In conclusion, I will come back to my opening point, which was that my reason for introducing this legislation — indeed, Mr Mathison described the same objective, which he has shared throughout the process — was to address the affordability of school uniforms for parents and families who I know are struggling with the cost of living. This Bill will make a difference. If it passes Final Stage, it will make a difference to the cost of school uniforms from the 2026-27 academic year. I thank each Member for their contribution. I look forward to receiving the House's support when voting for these technical amendments. Doing so will put families first. Fundamentally, that is what the legislation is all about.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  33. Voting in support of them will demonstrate that we can work together and take our collective responsibility to the statute book seriously, and that we can deliver good legislation that is fit for purpose.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  34. <BR /> <BR />When taken together, amendment Nos 3 and 4 move provisions that were voted on at Consideration Stage from clause 2 to a separate clause with a heading that signposts their purpose. Amendment No 4 further tidies language whilst delivering the Consideration Stage intention to limit or rule out single suppliers unless they demonstrate value for money and to ensure that information about any agreements that a school enters into is published unless they are put in place before the Bill comes into operation. That refines the Bill and ensures greater legal clarity in order to deliver the intention of the House. I commend those amendments to Members.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  35. The four amendments in group 2 that we debated seek only to provide greater legislative clarity in the language used and through the placing of provisions in the Bill. Amendment Nos 2 and 6 address an amendment from Consideration Stage by providing language that is more consistent with existing legislation, the Bill and day-to-day school practice. They deliver the intent from Consideration Stage that school uniform should support pupil learning. They place the explicit reference to "Foundation Stage" in a more appropriate clause in the Bill, which provides powers for differentiation, as needed, across school types, pupil age groups and, as the amendment makes explicit, Key Stages.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  36. Similarly, when it came to Further Consideration Stage, as soon as I could table the amendments, in advance of the Speaker's selection of amendments — he did not select some of them — I sent a letter to the Committee to advise it at an early opportunity, saying, "Here are the amendments and the reasons for them". I have sought to engage with the Committee throughout the process. My officials have always been available to the Committee collectively and, indeed, to individual members. I reject Mr Sheehan's assertion. <BR /> <BR />I appeal to Members to reflect on the substance of what we are debating and our role as MLAs. We are here to put into law clear wording that gives effect to what we want to do. I believe that we all want to make good legislation on this matter.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  37. Every Executive party — I will give the SDLP a bye ball on this, because it is not on the Executive — had an opportunity to shape the Bill. It was then introduced in the Assembly and voted on at Second Stage, and it was voted through. There was absolute integrity in the progress of the Bill through the various stages of Assembly scrutiny. When I was able to provide information to the Committee, I did so as soon as I could. <BR /> <BR />I could not engage with the Committee Chair or Deputy Chair until I knew what amendments had been selected at Consideration Stage. I was not aware of that until the Friday evening or Saturday morning, when Consideration Stage was to take place on Monday. I immediately put pen to paper and advised the Committee.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  38. The Member is absolutely flat-out wrong. I appreciate that he has never been a Minister in the Executive. I do not think that anyone currently on the Sinn Féin Benches has ever been a Minister, but some of them have been the Chair or Deputy Chair of a Committee, and they know how the process works. This discussion might be more for the Final Stage of the Bill, because we have not talked about the actual amendments; it has been more about sentiment and concern about the process. However, when a Bill is brought to the Executive, all Executive parties participate in that and see what is in it. They are given the opportunity to ask for information, as the First Minister often does, and to seek to shape the legislation.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  39. When it comes to it, it will vote to stop getting clear legislation in place and will seek to retain vagueness and loopholes, such as a loophole that means that a school can declare that it has achieved value for money without having evidence of that. Those were the two main points about that group.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  40. I will say this to them: listen, you are going to let schools off the hook by not supporting the amendment on this issue if that is the approach that you take. Evidence will be required. I assure Mr Mathison that I will ensure that we affirm that providing such evidence will be required and that that will be placed into the guidance. <BR /> <BR />Daniel McCrossan spoke on behalf of the SDLP and, again, outlined the fact that he does not want loopholes and or vague wording in amendment No 3. I am sorry; he is not actually in the Chamber. OK. If that is the case, the SDLP will vote against those amendments.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  41. Mr Sheehan has made the point for me from a sedentary position. He would rather make a point than listen to the experts. I will give way to the Member in a moment. <BR /> <BR />I welcome that approach to play-based learning, therefore. Mr Mathison has rightly identified the issue on the declaration and value for money. I have highlighted why a school manager, who is responsible for getting in the uniform, could just make a declaration and say, "We have value for money" without having to provide any evidence. I tabled an amendment that will actually ensure that they have to provide evidence of that. My amendment is stronger than the position that Sinn Féin and the SDLP outlined. They want to let schools off the hook, and I do not know why — maybe it is because they have a misconception about my motivations.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  42. I believe that they want the legislation to be effective, but, for whatever reason, on a couple of amendments, they are determined to say, "I am going to get my way, and I am not going to listen to the Minister."

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  43. I am concerned, though, that some MLAs come in with a predetermined position and a script that they already have and from which they will not deviate. They acknowledge that they are not experts, but the ordinary person on the street will not know what a declaration means. Take advice from the experts. Do not necessarily take advice from me if you do not want to, but take it from the experts who actually know what they are talking about in those areas. <BR /> <BR />Mr Sheehan acknowledged in the previous debate that legislators make mistakes and that it happens all over the world as though it is OK for us to continue doing that. He has an opportunity, and Sinn Féin has an opportunity, to actually put effective law into place, which I believe that those in that party all want to do.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  44. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will go straight to some of the comments and questions that Members raised in order to aid them in their consideration of how they will vote. <BR /> <BR />I welcome Mr Mathison's approach to play-based learning. He could have taken the view that the amendment that he tabled on that had to stand and that he was right, but he has actually listened to how we can make legislation more effective. He has reflected on that and acknowledged that, actually, the amendment that I tabled broadens the provision on that as well. That is a demonstration of an MLA who can bring forward an idea, get support in the Assembly, which I objected to at the time but have now refined, and recognise that it will make the Bill better. That is what Members are meant to do.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  45. In my view, that makes the detail in the new clause easier to follow. <BR /> <BR />I trust that Members will recognise the work that has gone into all the amendments that I have tabled to ensure that they deliver better flow but do not stray from the intent that was voted for at Consideration Stage. I also trust that Members will vote today for all my amendments, which, I remind the House, are technical in nature in order to provide consistency in language, style and structure in the Bill. I commend all my group 2 amendments to the House.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  46. The amendment has been drafted by experts, recognising that, unless a specific definition is inserted, the ordinary meaning of a word has effect. I would not accept a declaration from a school manager that provides no information about exactly how using a single or limited supplier equates to being value for money. I do not consider that to meet the requirements of the Bill. Evidence will have to be provided about how exactly it delivers such value for money. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 sets out the reporting requirements voted for at Consideration Stage in a more clear and consistent legislative framing, including to give some weight to the definitions of terms used: for example, being explicit that an agreement can be contractual or otherwise and that a pre-commencement agreement is one in place before the Bill comes into operation.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  47. Amendment No 3 leaves out provisions inserted into clause 2 at Consideration Stage so that amendment No 4 can place them in a separate clause with its own heading to index them. Amendment No 4 further refines the language in the Consideration Stage amendment, but the same matters are still provided for: limiting or ruling out single suppliers unless they demonstrate value for money and ensuring that information about any agreements, contractual or otherwise, is published at least annually, unless the agreement was in place before the Bill gains Royal Assent. <BR /> <BR />Again, I understand that some Members may be concerned that a declaration made by a school manager that single suppliers give value for money could simply state that. I assure Members that that is not the case. The ordinary meaning of the word "declaration" is a:

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2025-09-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  48. The House will note that it goes further by explicitly referencing Key Stages 1, 2, 3 and 4 as well. In addition, the opening words of new paragraph (b) are adjusted to reflect that practicality, along with comfort, is already covered by paragraph (a). As ever, it is the combination as well as particularity of provision that matters. Taken together, amendment Nos 2 and 6 are consistent with the Consideration Stage amendment while reflecting language that is more consistent with other legislation and education practice. I trust that the House will support the amendments. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 3 merely paves the way for amendment No 4, just as there were similar paving amendments in group 1.

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  49. It considers the reality of a school day and applies it to the intent articulated at Consideration Stage, namely that schools consider how children learn and what activities they participate in as part of that learning and, therefore, consider how their uniform requirements need to support their pupils in that. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 2 works alongside amendment No 6, which places the specific Foundation Stage reference more appropriately in clause 6. Again, I see benefits in broadening that out. It is preferable not to focus too narrowly in referring to one stage of education, noting that clause 6 already allows more generally for different provision for different age and peer groups, so clause 6 is the appropriate place to set the Foundation Stage reference.

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  50. That amendment used terms that are not used in other education law and are not commonly used in day-to-day school practice. Amendment No 2 therefore removes wording such as "play-based curricula" but replaces it with "play-based learning", which is a term more commonly understood in education. It expands the reference to outdoor learning so that it now reflects that the guidelines need to provide for uniform policies to address recreational, sporting or outdoor activities. I see benefits in doing that, particularly so that it does not bear to focus too narrowly on one aspect of the curriculum. You will note that it additionally refers to normal classroom and academic matters, as it would seem odd in this context not to refer to them as well.

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