Paul Givan
Lagan Valley · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The EA's enhanced support model has been out for consultation. The Member's party is the largest political grouping on the Education Authority, so his party supported the model's being consulted on.”
“Protections around strike action and action short of strike are firmly established in statute for all workers, including teachers. If the Member is referring to the Education Inspections Bill, let me be clear: nothing in that legislation removes or undermines that right.”
“The issue was covered at length at the Education Committee. The position is still not where it ought to be. When I came into office, the position that I inherited was much worse than it is today.”
“It is an area that I have had to navigate, as have many previous Education Ministers. Industrial relations is an area that needs ongoing work. I have outlined how we can address it, but I come back to saying that, when workload was undefined, trade unions struggled to specify the challenge.”
“That is not a fair characterisation. In fact, I was with Justin McCamphill, the leader of NASUWT, at the launch of the curriculum reform, at which he commended me for it and said that he thought that it was good. I have sat in many a meeting with trade union representatives during which they have said, "This is a good initiative.”
“That is exactly why there is a 16-week consultation period, rather than the normal 12 weeks or the minimum eight weeks; to allow the public and teaching profession to very much engage in that curriculum, which I commend to all Members.”
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“For the 2022-23 academic year, 116 pupils living in the North Antrim constituency with a statement of special educational needs were recorded as being enrolled in a specialist provision class in a mainstream school.”
“We need to make sure that the primary focus of our schooling system can be on those subject areas. Of course, we need to be involved in addressing the other issues as well.”
“Again, those are areas that we can touch on in the curriculum. There is room to do that. The Member rightly highlights all those things. Whether it is gambling or addiction to other drugs, such as alcohol and other substances, they all cause harm in our society, particularly to young people. Yes, there is a place for our schools to be involved in that, but it is a wider societal issue. Often, the responsibility of addressing a lot of wider issues is placed on schools. It is one of the workload-related issues that teachers will mention to me. They say that the pressure that they are placed under to engage in all these things, albeit they are important, creates an additional workload for them when they still have to be engaged in teaching literacy, numeracy and all the other core subjects in our education system.”
“We should welcome and support any measures that we can take to reduce access to equipment that facilitates people's engagement in that type of activity.”
“I had hoped that that would have prompted the Executive, collectively, to prioritise that significant issue and to ensure that the requisite resources were provided to do so, but the process has not moved at the pace at which, I think, Members from all sides would have wanted to see it move. I can, however, assure the House that my officials continue to engage with their colleagues in the Department for Communities and the Department of Health through the established cross-departmental working group on preventing and treating gambling-related harm. <BR /> <BR />The Member rightly highlighted the use of mobile phone technology for online gambling, which, as many Members will know, is a real source of concern.”
“I thank the Member for raising the issue and for highlighting the importance of today. Yes, we need to work across Departments. The consequences of gambling harm in our society are far-reaching and have a substantial impact, so the involvement of multiple Departments working in a coordinated way is required. That joint approach is necessary if we are to address changes in gaming and gambling, and particularly their impact on young people. That has been well documented in various reports. <BR /> <BR />Last year, the all-party group (APG) on reducing harm related to gambling published the final report of its inquiry.”
“Financial capability, encompassing awareness of gambling and gaming, is already established as a statutory and essential component of the curriculum. Opportunities for the teaching and learning of financial capability occur across the curriculum and through young people's everyday experience, inside and outside school.”
“Instead of mandating specific content, it empowers schools and educators to select contexts, topics and themes that best suit the needs of their students. That approach is highly advantageous, as it enables the curriculum to be tailored in such a way as to emphasise particular subjects, while remaining compliant with statutory requirements. At present, the topic of gambling harm is explored in the curriculum through the wider themes of financial capability, risk management and making responsible choices. Although the term "gambling harm" is not always explicitly referenced, aspects of the curriculum enable students to comprehend the dangers and outcomes that are linked to gambling and related behaviours.”
“I recognise the detrimental consequences of gambling and the considerable impact that its associated harms can have on individuals, their families and the community as a whole. To address the issue, it is essential to promote awareness among our children of the dangers of gambling-related harm. Our strategy is fundamentally in line with the objectives of the Northern Ireland curriculum. Those objectives include promoting critical thinking and informed decision-making, equipping students with the skills to manage risks in their personal and financial situations effectively and addressing contemporary societal issues, such as the increasing prevalence of gambling through the use of online platforms. <BR /> <BR />The Northern Ireland curriculum is structured to be dynamic, allowing for adaptability in education delivery.”
“For phonics and its systematic use, both are important. The key question has been around the use of cueing. It is well documented that cueing is not now an advocated approach, based on international research. ITV carried out a very good investigation into literacy performance in Wales, where there has been a significant downturn. Going by the programme for international student assessment (PISA), which benchmarks at an international level, I can say that literacy measurements for Northern Ireland are high. Phonics is the established way in which literacy is taught. It has been inferred that elements of cueing are an appropriate way in which to teach literacy, but evidence shows that cueing can undermine the use of phonics.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is excellent evidence on approaches to reading acquisition, and it is clear that we need to set out clear expectations for teaching reading so that all children benefit from an evidence-based approach. The evidence shows that phonics is an extremely strong approach. The evidence for competing models of balanced reading is equally weak. It is vital, therefore, that the teaching of phonics should be explicit and systematic across all schools to support children in learning to read. My officials have therefore commenced work on a new literacy strategy for Northern Ireland that will take account of recent international research in those key areas and set out the support and resources that will be available to our teachers.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is hugely important and relates to what is taught in our classrooms and the approaches that are taken. We need to have a strong focus on literacy and numeracy in particular, because they are the essential foundation for all education. They are essential to allowing our children and young people to succeed in their educational journey. The Count, Read: Succeed strategy was published in 2011. It contained actions and targets up to 2020, all of which are now out of date. Work to develop the strategy commenced in 2007, which means that the research that underpinned the guidance dates back nearly two decades. It was unhelpful for such a strategy to continue to be endorsed as departmental policy.”
“I thank the Member for the question, which touches on a number of areas. I assure him that the EA is reviewing literacy support in line with the new model and the graduated response framework that he mentioned. The EA is liaising closely with experts in the field, including Professor Julian Elliott from Durham University. It has also established a new reference group of professionals across Northern Ireland's higher education providers and the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA). Work is being undertaken in a number of areas to improve the situation, and some progress has been made. It may not be being felt yet, but processes are in place to improve the situation.”
“Between September 2024 and 31 January 2025, the Education Authority (EA) paused new referrals from schools to the Education Authority literacy service. That allowed the service to facilitate the prioritisation of pupils awaiting support as a result of the legacy discrepancy model of referral and service delivery. In September 2024, as part of the move to new local impact teams, the Education Authority removed the requirement for an educational psychology assessment prior to a request for input from any stage 2 pupil support service. That, alongside the planned removal of the discrepancy model, will allow for increased flexibility and earlier access to support for children and young people with special educational needs. The literacy service offer has also been widened to include training, advice and guidance.”
“<BR /> <BR />As our economy develops, the demand for higher levels of skills and knowledge will continue to grow. It is critical that we support as many young people as possible to reach the education and qualification levels that will offer viable and sustainable opportunities in our emerging labour market. If we want an education system in which all children have the chance to make the most of their abilities and become the best version of themselves, we need to invest in their learning. Investing in our schools is an investment in the future of Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />For some time, employers have been expressing concerns about a skills gap, which is the shortfall between what they expect and need from their recruits and the skill set with which those recruits come to them. The broadly based offer in sixth form has a key role to play in addressing the skills gap. In today's fast-changing, interdisciplinary, connected and collaborative world, we need breadth as well as depth: the ability to take learning from one context and apply it to another. The range of subjects on offer to post-16 students, the mix of academic and vocational options and the range of extracurricular choices equip learners with a more rounded set of skills and perspectives that are ideally suited to the flexible, evolving careers that will be inevitable over the next 10 years and beyond.”
“In fact, there are several approval processes in place to ensure that the qualifications being offered in a school are appropriate for that setting. They include the carrying out of checks by the awarding organisations; legislation requiring that qualifications being taught in school be approved by the Department; and, for large-sized qualifications, an application from the school, by exception, to offer that course to particular learners. In providing funding to schools for sixth-form pupils, the Department expects them to support those learners at every stage of their two-year learning journey. Only in very exceptional circumstances should a school end a pupil's sixth-form placement at the end of year 13.”
“That leads me on to my next point. The Member is right: pupils have to get the correct advice. The advice at school when I was there was, "Join the police", "Become a teacher" or, "Go into the health profession". It was not the kind of careers advice that we need to be providing to our young people. It is important that we support schools and those who provide that advice. Careers advisers and others should therefore have access to schools to discuss progression pathways with learners. There is an onus on the Careers Service to support learning pathways. I call on the Minister for the Economy to ensure that the service is appropriately resourced to provide up-to-date, relevant and timely advice to our pupils in schools. <BR /> <BR />It has also been suggested that schools are offering courses that would be better taught in FE colleges.”
“The school and the system were able to accommodate me and say, "That's not what Paul wanted to do. How do we change that?". The school was able to take me back, and I went in and started sixth form at Laurelhill. I was a pupil in the first sixth form at Laurelhill. A frustration that I hear from schools is, "How do we get a sixth form?". At Laurelhill, the number of pupils who created that sixth form was in the mid-teens, and that sixth form is now doing very well. I speak to that personal experience of how important it is that we put the interests of the child first, not those of the institution. That can be in a school, an FE college or a training-type facility, but we need to make sure that it is in the interests of the pupil. I certainly benefited from that approach.”
“However, I emphasise that the best interests of learners, not those of the institutions, should be at the core of such decisions. <BR /> <BR />I can speak to that personally. I left school at the age of 16 and enrolled in an FE college to do mechanical and electrical engineering. After week 1, I realised that I was never going to be a mechanical and electrical engineer, despite having qualified for the EMA, which was what had incentivised me to do it. I thought, "Great. I'll get paid a few quid for going to the college". In late September, I went back to my school, Laurelhill Community College, and pleaded with the vice principal, Dr Crone, "Please take me back. I've made a big mistake. I've taken the wrong course in life". I am sure that all of you in here will say, "Yes, and you still are taking the wrong course".”
“That means that, while learners may be registered at school, they may be taking a course in an FE college as part of a broader curriculum. <BR /> <BR />At this point, I want to reiterate a point that was made in the independent review of education, which is that learners in post-primary schools that do not have sixth forms should have a right of access to sixth-form provision in other schools. The admissions criteria for access to sixth forms should not work against learners transferring from schools that offer education up to age 16, and there are many factors that influence the decision on where to go next, including accessibility of settings, pupil and parental preference, perceptions of FE, the aspirations of learners and the outcomes historically achieved by learners in the respective settings.”
“Every year, between 20,000 and 24,000 16-year-olds make choices about their next steps: whether to study A levels or applied qualifications, or a mix of both; whether to enter an apprenticeship or to prepare for a trade via a technical qualification; and whether to stay at school, go to a further education college or enter the workplace. It has been suggested that the per-pupil funding model encourages schools with sixth forms to hang on to learners, and our school census data shows that just over 60% of year 12 pupils carry on to post-16 provision in a school. The absolute numbers change because of demographics, but that proportion has been fairly static for a number of years. Learners enrolled in school sixth forms may have some courses delivered through collaborative arrangements with other schools or colleges.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to ensure that careers-related learning starts early in the curriculum and that there is consistency in the quality of advice and guidance. I also want to ensure that careers teachers receive appropriate training and, with the support of employers, ensure that there are opportunities for meaningful engagement with the world of work for all our learners, particularly those furthest from opportunity. Through one of the many actions that are being progressed as part of the 14-19 framework, my officials have been working with colleagues in the Department for the Economy to provide a joint careers action plan that will be published in the coming weeks. <BR /> <BR />We do not have sixth-form colleges in Northern Ireland. Our post-16 provision comprises sixth form in schools, FE colleges and training organisations.”
“They need to support progression routes into further study, training or employment. I wish to begin a wide-ranging conversation on the future of our qualification system. I have already announced my intention to review the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment's suite of qualifications at Key Stage 4 and post 16. The increased choice of qualifications and pathways available to young people and projections that they will change jobs several times in their careers mean that it is more important than ever for young people to receive high-quality careers education, information, advice and guidance. We need to empower students to embrace and make informed choices about the expanded opportunities that are available to them.”
“This happens through the curricular offer, work-related learning opportunities, the range of qualifications approved for teaching in our schools and the option for schools to collaborate with other education providers to deliver those courses. Through the entitlement framework, schools provide pupils with access to a minimum of 21 courses at Key Stage 4 and post 16. This means that learners have access to a wide range of courses to meet their interests and career aspirations. A minimum of one third of courses on offer to pupils must be general, and one third must be applied, ensuring that there is breadth and balance in the curricular offer. <BR /> <BR />What is key to the quality of qualifications available to our learners? They need to be accessible, comparable and fit for purpose.”
“We planned to review it, and then COVID came and that process stopped. I am going to initiate a review of the common funding scheme to ensure that it distributes the available funding as effectively as possible for the benefit of all pupils. I am sure that that will be an area we will discuss at the Committee tomorrow. <BR /> <BR />I agree that post 16 is a critical phase of education and a key decision-making point for learners. However, work on preparing and supporting our learners for a variety of pathways starts earlier in the curriculum. Within our education system, opportunities currently exist for young people to explore a range of pathways from the age of 14.”
“It provides funding to reflect the characteristics and needs of learners, but the amount per pupil depends on the amount available in the pot. That is the aggregated schools budget. The independent review of education concluded that £155 million was needed annually to address the per-pupil funding gap in Northern Ireland compared with England and Wales. The report cited a figure of £9,000 per equivalent full-time student in our FE colleges. In the same year, the post-primary capita funding was less than £5,000. Clearly, the greatest challenge of the current funding model is the amount of funding per pupil. Michelle Guy spoke to that issue in respect of the common funding formula, and clearly related to investment in our schools is the funding method. I have discussed the funding formula with my officials.”
“I would certainly welcome the extra value that he would bring to the Sinn Féin Benches in that Committee — not that I am looking rid of anybody. I hope that Mr Baker's pen has survived from yesterday, because he will need it to write notes at the Committee tomorrow. However, I sincerely thank the Member, because he has a genuine interest in education. <BR /> <BR />The motion highlights the intrinsic importance of an excellent education, which can unlock opportunity and has the power to transform lives. The onus is on us to provide adequate support and resources to realise that opportunity. It also recognises that, to deliver excellence and equity in the system, we need to provide additional support to our learners who are at greatest risk of educational underachievement. This is how the per-pupil funding scheme works.”
“Education has a key role — indeed, a primary role — but to have that discussion in the absence of recognising the overlap with Economy is mistaken. Post-16 provision, further education and higher education colleges are the domain of the Department for the Economy, not the Department of Education. We operate that way between officials and Ministers, and the motion could have reflected that. We have sought to enhance it, and the Alliance amendment similarly. The totality of them coming together probably would have been a better approach. <BR /> <BR />As I said yesterday, the Member brings forward helpful suggestions when it comes to education. He has met me on a number of occasions. He is not on the Education Committee; maybe that could be part of a wider reshuffle.”
“after school. I thank the Members who tabled the motion and the amendments. They all have merit; it is a good example of a matter on which, maybe, MLAs could have got together and produced a motion that did not require amendments. I do not have any real difficulty with the motion or the amendments, and bringing them together would have made for a better motion. It would be strange not to include Economy in the debate, as that would mean its absence when we try to address the issues. The genuine interest in this area is to be welcomed, and hopefully, in future, a motion will be tabled that has that collective approach around this area.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to respond to the motion, which:”
“When they talk about equality, we will see how Members respond to the treatment of the controlled sector. That will be the litmus test for those who proclaim to be for everybody, because that has not been evident in the past 45 minutes.”
“It will be a test for everybody in the House to see how genuinely committed they are, when it comes to it, to a society for all.”
“Therefore, I have announced the changes in the controlled sector support unit that the EA will establish, and, yes, I will bring legislation to set up a managing authority”
“It has charitable status, unlike others with statutory legislative underpinning. As Education Minister, I am not going to tolerate those in the controlled sector being treated as second-class citizens in our country.”
“This might come as a shock to the Member, but there already is the Controlled Schools' Support Council. It exists, and the fact that the Member does not even know that tells you exactly the problem with Members' attitudes to the controlled sector.”
“I will publish tomorrow the detailed delivery plan and timeline for the special educational needs transformation, which I spoke about only a few weeks ago. That is another example of driving forward changes in our education system.”
“There absolutely has to be collaboration across our education system, and the task force for the controlled sector engaged with other sectors. In my engagement with CCMS, it challenged me on aspects of its role that it wants to see enhanced. I see an opportunity to provide support not just to the controlled sector but to other sectors. We then need, however, collaboration right across our education system, and I want to see that driven forward. The best way that we can do that is by creating equality of treatment in the managing authority status and for controlled schools to be better served than they have been to date. <BR /> <BR />The Member asked about statements and providing support for children with autism.”
“Again, that is one of those typical cheap shots that the Member and others have become accustomed to making. I am quite happy for everybody to scrutinise in great detail every single process that I have followed. I will be at the Education Committee on Wednesday. I look forward to at least two hours of engagement with the Committee. I hope that the Committee members are ready for it, because you have just had a flavour of 38 minutes of it. Wait until we have it for over two hours. You had better be ready.”
“There needs to be greater equality of funding through the common funding formula, but that does not solve the fundamental problem. We need to provide much greater levels of funding in our education system and push that into our schools through the normal budgetary process. That is what is undermining our schools in delivering for children and young people. Investment in education is the best life opportunity for every single child in Northern Ireland, and I am determined to continue to advocate for all our children, irrespective of their background.”
“I thank the Member for the question and for the invitation to visit the schools in his constituency. I pay tribute to the work of those schools. He unashamedly advocates for, and calls on me to, direct funding to those schools. There are always criteria and a process that are followed, and the schools that I have visited will be subject to the same criteria and processes, just as Lisneal College had to comply with the processes and the criteria that are operated by the Education Authority. <BR /> <BR />The Member speaks to the wider issue of the underfunding of our education system. There are cases in which a number of schools have surpluses — some of them significant — and others have significant deficits. However, the two do not balance out: there is a net deficit in our education system when it comes to the funding of our schools.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the Member for Foyle has been to the school — I trust that he has — I encourage him to pick up the phone, talk to the principal and ask him how he feels about being dragged into this very unseemly, nasty and petty political squabble that the Members on the opposite Benches have introduced when it comes to the funding for that school.”
“The Member went on to say that £7·6 million has been spent on non-controlled schools in the Foyle constituency. No, he did not; that is right. The Member did not give the facts on the allocation of funding. There is deliberate misrepresentation by the Member and others in the way they try frame this issue. They are struggling to understand the facts that relate to the minor works schemes, because they do not suit their narrative. The Education Authority has a delegated limit of £1 million on decisions that are taken. It decides on the funding for the minor works schemes.”
“We need to make sure that everybody gets the best opportunity in life.”
“I thank the Member for the question. In my original comments, I documented the evidence base upon which the decisions were made. It was well documented in the independent review of education that there were systems that were not serving the controlled sector well and structural deficits that needed to be changed. I have highlighted the differential in outcomes for those children from a poor socio-economic background who go to Catholic maintained schools. Those schools do excellent work in creating aspiration and giving children the best life chances, but the evidence has shown that, particularly in working-class communities, controlled sector schools need more support to help their pupils. There is inequality of treatment when it comes to our school sectors and there is inequality of outcomes.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I have answered the questions. The Member frames hers to suit her particular narrative. Again, that is not surprising. I say to the Member, who represents the Foyle constituency, that, if she has not been — maybe she has, but I do not know — she should go to Lisneal College. She should speak to the principal about his feelings and the school's feelings about the way in which her party and others have responded to the matter. She should try to be an MLA for all her constituents in Foyle, not just one section.”
“Shared education is something that I encourage and that I see happening across all our schools.”
“Very much so. The Member highlighted the importance of shared education, which I very much advocate. I have said to all schools, "You should be inclusive". Where there are barriers preventing people from the local community from going to their nearest school or where there is a perception of particular barriers, the school should try to address them. Shared education programmes are hugely beneficial. I have a statutory duty to promote them, and I will do so. I have a statutory duty to promote them in capital builds, and that is why we have taken forward the development at Strule. Limavady is an example of somewhere that we took forward shared education work. Ballycastle, where a school from the controlled sector and one from the Catholic maintained sector will be part of a shared education campus, is another example.”
“<BR /> <BR />Again, you do not want to get to the facts. You do not want the truth. You want to use the issue as a party political tool. You have lifted Lisneal College and are trying to use it as a rod with which to have a go. It is shameful and disgraceful the kind of politics that the Alliance Party, as well as Sinn Féin and the SDLP, engages in. I will be equitable in my judgement. I will be fair to all. It is blatantly obvious what this is about. Please retract and apologise to Lisneal College for your disgraceful behaviour.”
“I appreciate the genuine question, because, certainly, the churlish shaking of the head that is typical of the Member has not demonstrated sincerity when it comes to it. <BR /> <BR />The pitch is 20 years old. Such pitches normally have a life cycle of around 10 years; it is 20 years old. An assessment was made in 2019 that it needed to be replaced. I outlined in my statement the process that was followed when it came to the Education Authority's decision. If the Member has concerns about how the EA took the decision, she should, given that her party has a member on the board, ask the question of those who took the decision. Sinn Féin also has members on the board: ask the question. I encourage Members to do that, as the Education Authority took the decision on that minor works scheme.”