Paul Givan
Lagan Valley · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The EA's enhanced support model has been out for consultation. The Member's party is the largest political grouping on the Education Authority, so his party supported the model's being consulted on.”
“Protections around strike action and action short of strike are firmly established in statute for all workers, including teachers. If the Member is referring to the Education Inspections Bill, let me be clear: nothing in that legislation removes or undermines that right.”
“The issue was covered at length at the Education Committee. The position is still not where it ought to be. When I came into office, the position that I inherited was much worse than it is today.”
“It is an area that I have had to navigate, as have many previous Education Ministers. Industrial relations is an area that needs ongoing work. I have outlined how we can address it, but I come back to saying that, when workload was undefined, trade unions struggled to specify the challenge.”
“That is not a fair characterisation. In fact, I was with Justin McCamphill, the leader of NASUWT, at the launch of the curriculum reform, at which he commended me for it and said that he thought that it was good. I have sat in many a meeting with trade union representatives during which they have said, "This is a good initiative.”
“That is exactly why there is a 16-week consultation period, rather than the normal 12 weeks or the minimum eight weeks; to allow the public and teaching profession to very much engage in that curriculum, which I commend to all Members.”
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“Work is ongoing to specify how that will be broken down and the mechanisms for taking this forward.”
“The Executive have retained the £25 million at the centre, so it does not sit in my Department. I need to bring forward an Executive paper to access it. There are, broadly, four areas that we need to look at. One is stabilisation of the sector, and I refer to organisations such as Sure Start, in which the Department of Health is involved. We also need to look at an approach to standardisation of provision in nursery schools, so that we move towards having equity of full-time and part-time places. We need a scheme to try to ensure that, where there is a critical need, support for providers can be put in place. There are issues with affordability and costs associated with that. Those areas are being looked at in the context of the £25 million allocation.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is clear to me that significant transformation of early learning and childcare provision in Northern Ireland is needed to address all the issues that have been raised. Good progress has been made, and I hope to be in a position to bring proposals to the Executive in the coming weeks. Ultimately, the scale of what I can do will depend on the budget that is allocated for that by the Executive, which, for this year, is £25 million.”
“Specialist advice is also provided by economists and statisticians. <BR /> <BR />The full group has met twice, with additional bilateral engagement on specific issues having taken place between meetings. The group’s initial focus has been on the identification and design of interim measures that could be introduced this year to ease current pressures on parents and providers. It will also play an important role in supporting the development of the longer-term strategy. <BR /> <BR />With regard to progress on providing financial support for childcare for people in need, I am, of course, aware of the significant financial strain on some families and childcare providers. I have engaged directly with parents and representatives from the early learning and childcare sector to hear at first hand what their issues and priorities are.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 2 and 3 together. <BR /> <BR />I will begin with an update on the work of the cross-departmental task and finish group. The group was established to bring a cross-departmental perspective to the development of an early learning and childcare strategy. That is essential, given the range of issues that we want the strategy to address. The three overarching aims are to support child development, to enable parental employment and to improve affordability for families. The aims clearly touch on several economic and social policy interests and are reflected in the group membership, which includes the Department for the Economy, the Department of Health, the Department of Finance, the Department for Communities and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs.”
“The statement this morning outlined the process for any new build, school enhancement programme or minor works schemes. There needs to be an assessment of need, followed by feasibility studies, a business case and design processes before a school project gets to the point of being ready. When the capital becomes available, construction can then be put in place. For all our special schools, I have outlined in detail the approach that the Department will take to identify the need, have the processes in place to expedite those matters as efficiently as possible and then get on with delivering construction.”
“Let us see what we can do once Question Time is over.”
“Thank you, Mr Butler. Let me see what I can do. It is an unconventional way in which to try to get a meeting at such short notice.”
“Workforce issues are a real challenge. Some of those rest with the Department, such as making sure that we have appropriate recruitment and retention. In other special schools, the allied health professionals who come in are direct employees of the health service and the local trusts. Increasingly, a number of principals are raising their concern with me about a withdrawal of those services. I intend to engage with the Minister of Health to find out why that has been happening and what action is being taken to make sure that we have the appropriate support in our schools, not just to meet educational needs but to address the complex health needs that exist.”
“As I alluded to in my ministerial statement, I have been putting SEN first in my Department. That is why we now have a discrete, stand-alone capital programme for special educational needs provision. We are assessing what provision is necessary across Northern Ireland, including in South Down, and I was obviously able to announce a new build for Knockevin in the House earlier. My priority is children with special educational needs. When you and other Members are in those schools, as I have been, you cannot help but be touched by the needs of the children and young people. We need to do everything that we can to give them the best outcomes possible.”
“Furthermore, five schools in South Down have agreed to establish new SPiMS classes. <BR /> <BR />I assure the Member that the EA continues to work at pace on a significant programme of work to create additional specialist education places in special schools and for SPiMS for the 2024-25 academic year. Meeting the needs of an increasing number of children with statements of SEN continues to be extremely challenging in the budgetary context. Urgent investment is required in order to create additional capacity across the system.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />South Down has been identified by the EA as being an area of particular pressure, with additional places being required in special schools and for SPiMS. The EA continues to engage with all education sectors in the area on building capacity and addressing need. It is in discussions with Rathore School regarding potential options for expansion for September 2024. A number of solutions have also been agreed in the Downpatrick area for providing early years and foundation-stage specialist provision classes for children with severe learning difficulties, as Knockevin School has very limited capacity for new admissions for September 2024. Expansion of provision at Oakwood School's Saintfield site for September 2024 is also actively being considered.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am conscious that, owing to rising demand for specialist education provision, the situation for September 2024 remains very challenging, with the latest Education Authority planning assumptions indicating that almost 5,800 children with a statement of SEN require a change of placement for September 2024, with an estimated 1,000 additional places being needed across Northern Ireland to meet that demand. Significant progress has been made on agreeing solutions with schools to meet that demand through the creation of additional capacity in special schools and new specialist provision in mainstream schools (SPiMS). Focused work continues on securing solutions for September 2024. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, I should have asked for an extra minute before I started answering. Hopefully, with your indulgence, I can be granted that.”
“Today I announced the biggest step change in capital planning in education for a generation, with an ambitious and far-reaching programme that will require half a billion pounds of investment in facilities for children with special educational needs over the next decade. The programme will transform the education and lives of our most vulnerable children and their families. In South Down, planning for a new-build school for Knockevin Special School will begin immediately. The Education Authority (EA) has been asked to submit proposals for any required extensions to special schools, which will now be taken forward under the school enhancement programme, and it is envisaged that that will include Rathore School. Additional land, which should provide much-needed growing space, has recently been purchased beside that school.”
“Mr Kingston articulates very well the needs in Belfast, and that area has been identified as one where there is pressure. There is particular pressure in north and west Belfast, so a new Belfast school for 275 children from ages three to 19 is at an advanced stage. Where that school could be sited still needs to be looked at, but I hear what the Member is saying about the provision in north and west Belfast. I also hope to be able to update the Member in due course on some other primary schools in the Shankill area, one of which I visited recently. I hope to be able to come back to the House to provide more information on the provision of new schools in the greater Shankill area.”
“The Member articulates well the very reason why I have had to take the measures that I have taken today in announcing a discrete, stand-alone capital programme for special education. The school that he referenced, Thornfield, has been sitting alongside all the other schools in the school enhancement programme. I have now asked the Education Authority to prioritise those 10 schools so that we can accelerate the process and get to the point where we can, subject to capital, move into contract and carry out the necessary works.”
“The Member raised that issue at this morning's meeting with Rossmar, which he had asked for. During that meeting, as a result of the approach that we are taking to the capital programme, I was able to advise the principal and Mr Robinson that, from what was intended to be a minor works scheme, we will now move into a school enhancement programme. Our assessment will take a whole-school approach to the needs of the school in Rossmar, and, obviously, as I indicated, we will take that forward. I was delighted to be able to convey that information to the Member, the principal and the board of governors this morning.”
“I have invited the unions to engage in that process, and I hope that they will, because I believe that we can get a positive resolution. What I do not want is disruption to special schools and children with special educational needs not being able to go to their place of education as a result of any potential strike action. We should never have a scenario where children with special needs cannot be properly supported as a result of that. I believe that we can get a successful outcome and a resolution, and I hope that, in the days and weeks ahead, we will be able to do that without the necessity for any form of strike action.”
“The statement outlines what we are trying to do to support the provision of special education in mainstream schools. That is a key part of our work. We are putting in specialist provision, and we will put further provision in. We have already secured commitments to do that, and the funding will be made available to make sure that we have the appropriate accommodation that is necessary to meet needs. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, the Executive were able to agree a process for trying to resolve the pay and grading review.”
“The Member talked about Castle Tower, which is one of the 10 schools in the school enhancement programme. I am trying to make sure that we get through that process so that, when funding becomes available, we can do new builds. The Member is obviously concerned about that response, so I undertake to write to him in detail to provide an update on Castle Tower. The statement is designed to help every special school in Northern Ireland. I want to ensure that it does that, especially in Ballymena.”
“Obviously, the Department and the EA follow procurement rules on such matters, ensuring that there will be the type of social clauses that the Member has articulated. It would be an important opportunity to involve the community where builds are taking place. That should be part of the design process.”
“The Member makes an important point. I agree that we should make sure that we use appropriate language in our terminology. He makes an important point about that.”
“I thank the Member for highlighting that excellent school in Larne. I know that she has campaigned for the provision there. For it, as one of those 10 schools, this is about driving through the design process to get to the point of being in a state of readiness for funding, and that will be important. Obviously, in the past, when we had school enhancement programmes, there were spending limits. The Education Authority removed a number of those special schools because the finance that was needed would have breached the spending limit in place for school enhancement programmes, which was just over £4 million. I am removing that limitation on special schools for school enhancement programmes, so that limit will not be there for those special schools when it comes to the funding envelope that will be needed.”
“I am trying to make sure not only that we ask schools to take and facilitate a SPiM class but that we provide some resource so that they are able to use it effectively. Every school that does that will receive £20,000 for their capital equipment.”
“The Member highlighted Ardnashee, and I can see from the enrolment figures that the school that has been built has well in excess of 100 children who cannot be accommodated in a new school. That is why we have announced a dual campus at Ardnashee, and work can now commence on the design process. <BR /> <BR />The Member mentioned support for schools that have specialist provision, and she is right to raise that issue. We need to ensure that schools have confidence in that provision. In my statement, I highlighted funding of £4 million for equipment and provisions for schools. As part of that funding envelope, £20,000 will be given to every school that agrees to take a SPiM class to go towards capital equipment and measures such as that.”
“We have created a gateway for Knockevin to progress. When we met the principal, I outlined that, at that stage, there was no process for Knockevin to enter into. Had we gone through a conventional process, the school would have been competing against many other schools. In this way, through a new special educational capital programme, we have a new gateway for special schools. That is why I have been able to announce the go-ahead for Knockevin Special School.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It was one of those visits — being able to be in the school — that very much stand out as a highlight for me. It was a pleasure for me to be there. I know that you have advocated for the school over the years. I assure the House that Diane Forsythe has advocated for the school as well. I know that a cross-party approach has been taken in the constituency to do that. I have been heavily lobbied by my colleague for the school. <BR /> <BR />The announcement that there will be a new build will allow support to be put in place to set up the design teams to take the school through the various stages. I know that, in the conversation that we had with the principal, a number of options were discussed around potential locations and time frames, and all of that can now be taken forward.”
“In the Member's constituency and every other constituency, where there is a need in a special school, we want to assess that need and make sure that we put in place the right support to take forward a capital programme that will meet that need.”
“It may be more appropriate for schools for which minor works have been planned to move into the school enhancement programme. The programme that has been set up today allows that flexibility to take place. Rather than having a capital call go out to the entire education estate and have special schools competing alongside every other type of school, we have created a stand-alone and discrete special educational capital programme. That is why I have been able to announce the new schools and why we are looking at how to prioritise the enhancement programme for special schools. It is a new programme that we have created, recognising the critical need to do that.”
“The Member is correct that there have been occasions when a special school is what is best but there has been a lack of capacity. When I was in Knockevin Special School, the principal indicated that there were children whom they had wanted to take, because that was the right thing to do, but were unable to take because of the lack of capacity. A SPiMS unit has had to be provided there, with the additional support required for that. Creating a much enhanced school estate will help with wider parental choice, but, ultimately, this is about what is in the best interests of the child and trying to make sure that we get the right place for the right person in the right school. That is what we are trying to achieve. My announcement today puts us on a pathway to creating the school estate that will ensure that that is the case.”
“This is the start of that process, where we move to a planned, fit-for-purpose education system for those with special educational needs.”
“The Member is right. The programme that I have announced will take that long-term strategic view. As I outlined in my statement, the number of children presenting and requiring a statement of educational need has increased significantly over the past number of years. That is expected to rise up to 2032. What are we doing to make sure that the estate is able to meet that need? That is what the programme is all about: assessing the need and making sure that we have an estate available to meet that need. That way, we will not be dealing with the kinds of crises that have been taking place with putting in classroom units and trying to identify at the last minute where we can put in provision. We need to move away from that.”
“It is for Ministers to get on with the job and do the best that they can with the funding envelope that they have. I am a Minister who is rolling up my sleeves, getting on with that difficult job and trying to find solutions.”
“I thank the Member for the question. He will have me in his constituency, I think, tomorrow for school visits, and Clifton is another school that he has raised with me. I thank him for his advocacy on that. It is one of the schools in the school enhancement programme, and we seek to move that forward at pace. <BR /> <BR />There is a clear challenge in the wider education estate. There is a 15-year backlog in planned maintenance, and we have a real problem in how we address that. There is outdated technology infrastructure in schools, and investment of around £250 million is required to update that infrastructure, so the challenges are hugely significant. I recognise that there are huge challenges for the Executive, but we still have resources and funding.”
“I think that the Member is referring to what we regard as supernumerary when it comes to the planning. We have been taking an approach that you cannot plan new builds and school enhancement programmes without including children with statements of special educational need and meeting that need. When carrying out future designs and builds, we need to make sure that we are building new schools on the basis that they will be able to accommodate all children, and the issue of how you build the supernumerary factor into it needs to be addressed. There is no point building new schools that are not able to meet the needs of the local community, particularly children with special educational needs.”
“What I am doing today, and what we have been doing, is making sure that school principals and leadership teams feel supported, because, instinctively, our school principals and boards of governors want to accommodate all children in their local community, but they need to make sure that they have the right support from government and the Education Authority to have the confidence to do that.”
“The survey is being carried out based on the physical need of the school. Some schools may have a classroom that can be repurposed, and others may require a classroom unit or a modular unit to be put on. My Department and the EA are assessing the 200 schools that have come forward, and we are doing that because we need to make sure that it is the right placement, not just because we cannot have a child not going to school. We have to make sure that children go to school, but it needs to be the right school. We should not be in a place where we are applying so much pressure to a school and saying, "You must take". It has to be right, and the school has to be supported.”
“I can spend so much more, and I intend to get these projects to the point at which they are ready to go into construction so that, when I next go to the Executive to seek funding, I will do so on the basis of being able to say, "These are schools that can be built when the resource is made available to us". <BR /> <BR />Over the next 10 years, the scale of that investment will be in the hundreds of millions. It will be developed strategically, through a planned process, and, obviously, it will be critical investment to create the right kind of school estate for special education.”
“The Member previously raised Sperrinview and the facilities that are needed. Today's announcement of a new build for Sperrinview opens up the mechanism, or gateway, for that process to commence. That will be very much welcomed in the wider mid-Ulster community. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to the budget, we need additional funding over the next 10 years in a sustained way. I was pleased that the Executive were able to provide additional resource to my Department for capital expenditure. I had raised it with the Finance Minister. I would have liked more, but I am glad that I got over £60 million. I fought hard, based on all my engagement and the evidence that some of our most vulnerable children need that support, and that is why Education received an uplift.”
“The Member is right to raise that issue. It has been raised with me when I have visited schools. At Carr Primary School in my constituency, the principal indicated that the school had expressed an interest in provision but the EA did not follow that through; indeed, it was indicated that it may not have been a suitable school because of the wider enrolment issue. I looked at that issue, and, in my view, it is a suitable school. That is one of the reasons why my Department — not the EA — engaged directly with schools and sought expressions of interest; I had my permanent secretary reach out to do that. We are carrying out a survey for the reasons that the Member has just articulated: too many schools said that they wanted to make that provision but that they did not get the support that they needed from the Education Authority.”
“In many cases, it will be the best place, but earlier dialogue is needed to work out the best solution for the child. That is another piece of work around the statementing and placement processes. I am alert to all those things, and we need to see improvement on them all in the months ahead.”
“More time is required to do that than is the case, perhaps, when it comes to placement of children in mainstream education. I am alert to that. <BR /> <BR />The other thing that we need to look at is an earlier engagement process with parents when they choose a school in December. Often, a school is asked, with only two weeks' turnaround time, whether it can accommodate a child or young person, many months after the parent has expressed a view on what school the child should go to. We need to get to a place where the primary-school principal and the principal of the parent's preferred post-primary school have the conversation about that. It may be that the post-primary school that the parent wants their child to go to is not the best place.”
“In fact, only 16 children remain unplaced in a mainstream setting, and that number has come down. Children therefore know where they are going. For children who have a statement of educational need, and for whom we are trying to find the right placement, some of them still do not know. We need to get to a place in which they have sight much earlier of the school that they will go to. That is an issue to which I am very much alert. It has not happened this year, but I believe that improvements can still be made. It is a slightly different process, because you need to make sure that the needs of the children and young people and the ability of the school's provision to meet those needs are properly assessed and that engagement with parents takes place.”
“It is an issue that has been raised with me when I have been out visiting schools. The approach, with which Members will be familiar, is that other schools receive a delegated budget under the local management of schools (LMS) arrangements. Special schools do not get that, because they are directly funded. The costs are all directly paid. There will be arguments — pros and cons — around that. Rather than the issue being about the process of spending, it is about making sure that there is an available resource. On how that is spent and who takes the decision, I am up for the conversation, but we need to make sure that the appropriate resources are being made available to schools. <BR /> <BR />On the issue of placements, I absolutely understand, and 99·9% of children in mainstream education have received their placement.”
“Where there is a need in a community, we need to identify how the school can meet it. Where it is not a new build, but the school can be enhanced, we need to identify the need. Where adjustments need to be made to the school enhancement programme, we want to know about them so that we can make those adjustments accordingly in order to have an estate that matches up with the need, not just now but in 10 years' time.”
“Another child beside me grabbed hold of my ear and pulled me over. It was just one of those moments when I asked myself what more we can do for children who face those really difficult circumstances. What more can we do for parents who struggle every day and who campaign and fight for their children? We should have a system that responds to that need. Not one that is hostile or litigious but one that is agile and supportive. That is what I am going to ensure happens. <BR /> <BR />Longstone is one of the schools in the school enhancement programme. Its processes will now be accelerated. I want to compress the number of stages that schools have to go through so that we can then allocate funding, when capital becomes available, to start construction. The school enhancement programme looks at a whole-school solution.”
“I thank the Member for her comments and also for the invitation, very early in my time in office, to visit Longstone School, where I had the opportunity to meet the pupils, as I have had in a number of different school settings. For any Member who goes into a special school — I am sure that many, if not all, Members have — it is very difficult to come away from that engagement not feeling emotional and touched by the visit and not wanting to do more. That has been my experience in witnessing the excellent teaching provided and how the support staff put in place routines. On one of my school visits, to Knockevin School, to which Diane Forsythe and Colin McGrath had invited me, one of the girls in the class hugged me. One of the classroom assistants had to assist in her letting go.”
“I am doing that in the short term, but the Member rightly raises the challenges that have come about each year over the past few years. That is why I have set out a transformational programme to meet the needs in our special schools and to have specialist provision in mainstream education. The Department is now very much getting on the front foot, dealing with the long and medium term, but also putting in place measures in the short term. That includes enhancing the capacity in the Education Authority. That is why I took the decisions that I had to take with regard to the transformation that is needed there, and long-term work needs to be carried forward. I am also looking at the further support for placement processes that is needed by the Education Authority, and I may be able to articulate more on that in due course.”
“When I came into post a number of months ago, I immediately recognised that there was severe pressure on the provision of placements for September, so we set about a piece of work that resulted in engaging directly with schools. Some 200 schools came forward to say, "We are willing to provide a placement in September". We have already secured additional capacity, so the figure of 1,000 has already been significantly reduced. We have further enhanced the provision through the work that we have taken forward, and those 200 schools will be critical to making sure that, come September, we will not be in the position where a child has not received a placement. I want to get to the point at which I can guarantee that. I am not at that stage yet. <BR /> <BR />The requirement on me, as Minister, is to make sure that we address the issue.”
“We are responding to the immediate pressure, but I have also outlined the vision for special educational needs and how we will meet those and provide what is required in Northern Ireland.”