Paul Givan
Lagan Valley · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The EA's enhanced support model has been out for consultation. The Member's party is the largest political grouping on the Education Authority, so his party supported the model's being consulted on.”
“Protections around strike action and action short of strike are firmly established in statute for all workers, including teachers. If the Member is referring to the Education Inspections Bill, let me be clear: nothing in that legislation removes or undermines that right.”
“The issue was covered at length at the Education Committee. The position is still not where it ought to be. When I came into office, the position that I inherited was much worse than it is today.”
“It is an area that I have had to navigate, as have many previous Education Ministers. Industrial relations is an area that needs ongoing work. I have outlined how we can address it, but I come back to saying that, when workload was undefined, trade unions struggled to specify the challenge.”
“That is not a fair characterisation. In fact, I was with Justin McCamphill, the leader of NASUWT, at the launch of the curriculum reform, at which he commended me for it and said that he thought that it was good. I have sat in many a meeting with trade union representatives during which they have said, "This is a good initiative.”
“That is exactly why there is a 16-week consultation period, rather than the normal 12 weeks or the minimum eight weeks; to allow the public and teaching profession to very much engage in that curriculum, which I commend to all Members.”
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“The Member raises an important point. We want to have major capital developments, but we also want to have enhanced programmes. There is also maintenance that needs to be carried out in our school estate. There is a range of areas to which I want to see capital funding allocated, but there is a limited capital budget, and it is essential that I take forward a balanced programme of investment across all the programme streams. That includes new-build majors through to the planned essential maintenance of the current estate. I also want to take forward a targeted, curriculum-based programme in the future, such as that for sports provision.”
“The Member is aware of how advanced the project is. We have not entered into a formal contract with a company to build, but it is at a late stage and is shovel-ready, subject to capital funding becoming available. I cannot commit to funding something until I know what my funding envelope will be. That is part of the budgetary process. The school is very much at an advanced stage, but, until I know what capital is available to the Department, I am not able to give that absolute commitment.”
“Gaelscoil Uí Néill is fully designed, with planning approval, and an integrated supply team is in contract. Subject to the availability of additional capital budget, the project is therefore ready to move on-site. Unfortunately, as I referred to in my statement to the Assembly on 12 February, substantial additional and sustained capital budget is urgently required before Gaelscoil Uí Néill and similar projects can be permitted to proceed to the construction stage. I have made the case for additional and sustained capital investment in our education infrastructure and have brought bids to the Executive for in excess of £543 million of capital funding for education in the 2024-25 year. Should capital funding become available, projects will then be reviewed and prioritised for delivery.”
“I certainly echo the Member's remarks on the excellence provided by the school. I will not share the language of "criminally" underfunded. There is underfunding, certainly, in the sector, and, when it comes to support for children who require additional needs provision, I will prioritise that and have done as part of my budget process. I have indicated to the Member, concerning the additional post in the school, some of the funding that has been made available. He will be aware that a business case for a new school was recently approved by the Department of Finance, but that is subject to the various stages that we need to go through and to capital funding being made available.”
“During the 2023-24 financial year, St Gerard's received £312,000 in article 60 funding alongside additional funding totalling £75,000 across extended schools, home-to-school link, special educational needs and framework implementation funding and summer provisions.”
“Special schools are funded directly through the Education Authority block grant, with all staffing costs, including sickness and maternity absence, school rates and maintenance costs being met directly by the Education Authority. However, my officials have been working closely with St Gerard's School and Support Services and the wider network of special schools to ensure that, where possible, additional funding is provided to enable additional supports at a school for the emergent presenting needs of pupils and their families. In response to emergent needs at St Gerard's, a second non-teaching vice principal post was approved in March this year, and a recruitment exercise is under way.”
“I am happy to look at the broader issue that the Member has raised around autism training across the sector. It is an important issue for people to be aware of. I have no problem in saying to the Member that it should be considered.”
“The Member raises an important point. It relates to education, so, while the formal assessment is not carried out by the EA or my Department, the issue links in with the Department of Health and it is important that we work together on it. I assure the Member that we do. Particularly for children in the Irish-medium sector, where possible, the EA attempts to provide educational psychologists with experience in the Irish language or bilingualism. To assure the Member, we are also engaging with Comhairle na Gaelscolaíochta (CnaG) and the Irish-medium education sector to ensure that the specific needs of the sector are considered as part of the end-to-end review of special educational needs.”
“The Education Authority does not conduct the formal assessments of autism and/or ADHD. Assessments for autism or ADHD are conducted only by a specific group of healthcare professionals, for example paediatricians or child psychologists. Therefore, the issue is a matter ultimately for the Department of Health.”
“If the Assembly wants to pay for school enhancement projects as part of its visitation programme, that will be welcome. I doubt that it would go too far, mind you. <BR /> <BR />The Member raises an important issue around capital funding. On day 1 of this Assembly, I made a ministerial statement on the need for increased expenditure in our capital programme. The enhanced programmes are often smaller than the major capital ones. They should be supported. That is why, as part of my budgetary process, I have put forward a bid for well over £500 million to fund capital schemes. That is a live discussion that the Executive will need to consider as part of the budgetary process.”
“Under current legislation, voluntary contributions are a matter for boards of governors of schools. While the collection of voluntary contributions is permissible, any request for that needs to make it clear that there is no obligation to contribute, and any registered pupil at the school should be treated no differently according to whether their parents or guardians have made a contribution. It is permissible, but, obviously, there are certain parameters with which such a request needs to comply.”
“I encourage schools to come to this place to learn about it. I first visited this place when I was at school. The late Members Billy Bell and Ivan Davis and, indeed, you, Mr Speaker, were here at the time. That is where I got a taste for being involved in front-line politics in the Assembly. I encourage educational visits. We in the Assembly have an excellent Education Service that provides a lot of support for the schools that visit, and I certainly recommend that schools come here.”
“Obviously, there are various means by which funding can be raised, as I referenced in my original response to the Member. General funding is administered through the common funding formula, and, again, that is touched on in the independent review of education. That review, which was in place, has not been taken forward. However, this is one of the areas that I will look at when I consider a report from my Department on the independent review of education, where it touches on funding through that funding scheme. <BR /> <BR />The Member rightly raises the issue of the financial pressures on schools. I want more funding per pupil to be attributed to each school. I am putting that forward as part of our bid. That way, we can get more schools into surplus whereby they can fund visits to this place.”
“My priority will be to provide stability and take every action possible to protect education funding and the front-line services within my Department's statutory remit.”
“While I fully recognise the educational value inherent in children visiting Parliament Buildings with their schools, unfortunately, neither my Department nor the Education Authority (EA), as the funding authority for schools, provide specific additional schools funding for travel or lodgings for extracurricular activities. If a school wishes to bring its pupils to Parliament Buildings, it is a matter for the school to organise and fund that through its delegated budget or, possibly, through fundraising events and/or parental contributions. I know that the Member will appreciate that the education sector continues to face extensive unavoidable cost pressures and rising service demands associated with delivering my Department's statutory and policy obligations.”
“I trust that, if Members back motions such as this one, they will also ensure that they support the provision of the funding necessary to make laudable motions a reality in practice; otherwise, they will reduce the Chamber to a forum for virtue-signalling, where they will the ends but not the means. That is not practical politics and is of no use to the people who send us here. I will support the motion and the amendment, but we need Members, particularly those in the Executive, to support me.”
“Ahead of any decisions on changes to the eligibility criteria, a full public consultation on the options and associated impact assessments will need to be undertaken, and I plan to do that as soon as possible. However, a key issue in the review that we cannot simply ignore is affordability. The Department of Education faces significant funding pressures and is struggling to support existing key services. Increasing the number of children who are eligible for free school meals has potentially significant budgetary implications, and I will need to take those implications into account before taking any final decision. <BR /> <BR />Let me conclude by reiterating a point that I have made previously.”
“The Department's review of the eligibility criteria for free school meals and uniform grants continues to examine a range of options for increasing the numbers of children and young people who are able to access free school meals and uniform grants. My officials are engaging with officials from the Department for Communities in seeking to update the modelling that will be used to inform the review. That is particularly relevant as families migrate from legacy benefits to universal credit. <BR /> <BR />The options being considered by the review include raising the income thresholds that apply to some of the means-tested criteria, the introduction of universal free school meals provision to pupils in some school years and options that are a combination of the two.”
“Seeking to isolate holiday hunger for children as an issue that stands alone, apart from the greater impact that food poverty has across society every day of the year, is an imperfect and disjointed solution to what is a wider societal challenge. Food poverty is an issue that cuts across all age groups every day of the year, and the Executive should seek to address it as part of their wider anti-poverty work for all our citizens. In reality, although the Executive can fund almost anything that they wish to, they simply cannot fund everything that they would wish to. Difficult choices therefore have to be made. <BR /> <BR />The proposed amendment to the motion calls on me to:”
“<BR /> <BR />No child in our society should go hungry, and although my Department continues to support school-age children during term time to access healthy, nutritious meals, initiatives to tackle holiday hunger or provide support with food outside term time need to be aligned to social welfare support for families. It is therefore appropriate that the Executive take a wider and more holistic decision about how they tackle the issue of food poverty across society. <BR /> <BR />What has been characterised as "holiday hunger" for children outside term time should be an important consideration in the context of the Executive's anti-poverty strategy.”
“In Scotland, where there is a more generous financial settlement from His Majesty's Treasury relative to need, funding for food is provided to low-income families during school holiday periods, and Social Security Scotland provides the Scottish child payment of £25 a week for each child of those who are in receipt of certain benefits. That is to help with the everyday costs of supporting children. In Wales, however, the holiday free school meals scheme for payments to families entitled to free school meals was discontinued in May 2023. In England, a holiday activities and food programme funds local authorities to offer holiday club provision, and those who are entitled to free school meals receive a free meal if they attend that programme.”
“The necessary ring-fenced funding was made available each year to the Department of Education to undertake those payments on behalf of the Executive. As a result, around £20 million was provided in each year of the scheme to low-income families to help with food costs outside of term time. The ring-fenced funding ceased, however, and was not part of the 2023-24 Budget that the Secretary of State set. With no ring-fenced funding in place, the permanent secretary had little choice but to discontinue the scheme in March 2023. <BR /> <BR />Elsewhere in the United Kingdom, support for families with the cost of food for children during school holiday periods varies.”
“The scheme was funded by the Executive to provide payments to cover the cost of food during school holidays for pupils who were entitled to free school meals. The Education Authority already had in place an established payment mechanism, so the Department of Education was identified as the interim lead Department to take forward the scheme. It was agreed by the Executive that a wider strategic decision on the way forward with tackling food poverty, including holiday hunger, was required, including the identification and resourcing of a lead Department. That interim approach was agreed by the Executive to run up until Easter 2022. In the absence of an Executive, my predecessor as Minister of Education, Michelle McIlveen, approved the extension of the school holiday food grant scheme up until March 2023.”
“The pandemic exacerbated the issue of food poverty across our society. Although the rising cost of food has resulted in all of us paying more in the shops, it has been especially difficult for families on a low income, where making ends meet can be a daily struggle. As an Executive, I trust that we will seek to support low-income families with the range of pressures that they face. For many families, that is particularly challenging outside of term time, when their children are not able to access a daily free school meal in the way in which they can during term time. That continues to be a significant issue for many families in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />In recognition of those challenges, in 2020, the Executive decided to establish a school holiday food grant scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />Over £700,000 is provided to full-service schools in North Belfast and West Belfast to provide further support for children and young people in those particular areas through transition support, breakfast clubs, literacy and numeracy support, GCSE revision classes and many other supports. My Department also continues to support school-age children through the provision of free school meals to low-income families in receipt of certain benefits. I recognise the educational benefits that that provision brings to those children, particularly to their ability to concentrate, their behaviours and, ultimately, their learning outcomes. <BR /> <BR />Holiday hunger is an important issue, and one that many Departments have been seeking to address for a number of years.”
“Those include funding for schools that we have worked hard to protect, as far as we could, given the very constrained Budget settlement in the 2023-24 financial year. Policies include the £75 million for targeting social need, which is provided to schools through the common funding formula. That funding provides for a wide range of interventions, including teachers, other education professionals, special educational needs support, and literacy and numeracy support at all Key Stages. There is £8·1 million for the extended schools programme, which supports over 400 schools, 200,000 pupils, 80,000 parents and 30,000 community representatives. Again, those interventions are wide-ranging and include breakfast clubs and after-school activities.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to respond to the motion and engage on what is a very important issue. At the outset, I recognise the pressure on families, especially those with school-age children, from the rising cost of living and, in particular, increasing food costs. <BR /> <BR />Recognising the challenges facing parents of school-age children, I set out, in the debate on 5 March, my intention to bring forward proposals to help reduce or limit the costs associated with purchasing school uniforms. My Department also has a range of policies and interventions in place to support children who may be impacted on by social disadvantage or poverty.”
“I know that we all want to ensure that payments via the scheme are safeguarded and not devalued by inflation and that the definitions of the diseases are up to date. I commend the motions to the House.”
“Mr Lyons asked me to fill in for him today. However, I previously served as Minister for Communities, so it feels as though I have gone home today, albeit that I was not in office to take through what is, usually, an annual process. I was happy to facilitate Minister Lyons, who sends his apologies to the House: a close friend passed away suddenly, and the funeral is today, which is why he is not able to be here to take this forward. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Minister, I thank the Chairman and members of the Committee for Communities for the positive way in which they have dealt with the rules. The Committee' s prompt consideration allows the legislation to be made in a time frame that enables people in Northern Ireland to benefit from the increased amounts from 1 April and brings the definitions of the specified diseases up to date.”
“Therefore, I ask Members to support the two statutory rules.”
“People whose condition is diagnosed at an earlier age and who have high levels of disability will be entitled to a higher lump sum payment. Dependents who make a claim after the sufferer has died are entitled to a lower lump sum payment. The maximum amount that can be paid through the 1979 scheme is being increased this year to £114,210 for a person aged 37 or under at diagnosis. The increase will help to ensure that payments provided by the scheme maintain their value. <BR /> <BR />While Members will, no doubt, agree that no amount of money can ever compensate a person affected by any of those terrible diseases, I am sure that Members will want anyone who is diagnosed and makes a claim after 1 April 2024 to receive the higher amounts. Members will, I am sure, also agree that realigning the disease definitions is a positive measure.”
“To be eligible for payment via the 1979 scheme, one, there has to be no current or previous claim for damages for the disease for which the person is claiming; two, there must be no relevant employer that can be pursued through the courts and, three, the person must have been awarded industrial injuries disablement benefit. <BR /> <BR />The lump sum payment via the 1979 scheme is paid in addition to the weekly industrial injuries disablement benefit that relates to the same disease. Dependants can make a claim if the person who had the disease has, unfortunately, passed away before making a claim themselves. <BR /> <BR />The amount of the lump sum payment depends on the age of the person with the disease and the level of disablement at the time of diagnosis.”
“It is therefore important for me to state that people who have made claims that relate to the two relevant diseases in the past have not lost out and would have received a lump sum payment via the scheme as long as other entitlement conditions were satisfied. <BR /> <BR />The 1979 scheme is intended to compensate people who have been exposed to asbestos during their employment and have contracted a specified disease through that employment but have not been able to get compensation from the employer. The length of time between exposure to asbestos and diagnosis with one of those diseases is often too long. Usually, it is many years before symptoms are displayed. In some cases, an employer may no longer be in business.”
“(Workers’ Compensation) (Prescribed Occupations) Order 2007, which lists the occupations prescribed for the purpose of each disease to which the 1979 scheme applies. Let me put on record that, although the statutory rule will provide for the realignment of the definitions in the 1979 scheme with the industrial injuries disablement benefit legislation, in practice, payments have been made to sufferers of those diseases in line with the wider definitions despite the divergence in the legislation. That is because the Department has been using the definitions as set out in the industrial injuries disablement benefit legislation when considering entitlement to a lump sum payment through the 1979 scheme.”
“Those updates have not, however, been reflected in the 1979 scheme. That has inadvertently led to two of the specified diseases in the 1979 scheme no longer mirroring the corresponding prescribed diseases in the industrial injuries disablement benefit legislation. The order makes the changes required in order to realign the definitions. To achieve that, the list of specified diseases for the purposes of the 1979 scheme is being amended to include unilateral as well as bilateral diffuse pleural thickening and to extend the scope of primary carcinoma of the lung. The current definition requires accompaniment by asbestos or diffusal by bilateral pleural thickening. The updated definition will simply require evidence of occupational exposure to asbestos. <BR /> <BR />The order also makes consequential amendments to the Pneumoconiosis etc.”
“The second motion relates to a statutory rule to update the diseases covered under the scheme. The scheme currently covers five respiratory diseases related to exposure to asbestos. They are mesothelioma, diffuse pleural thickening, primary carcinoma of the lung, byssinosis and pneumoconiosis. Hopefully, I pronounced all those correctly. Historically, the definition of the diseases specified in the 1979 scheme has mirrored five diseases that have been prescribed for the purpose of obtaining entitlement to industrial injuries disablement benefit. The prescribed disease definition set out in the industrial injuries disablement benefit legislation has been updated over time, following recommendations made by the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council (IIAC) based on improved clinical understanding.”
“The regulations will ensure that lump sum payments here are paid at the same increased amounts as those payable through the corresponding scheme in Great Britain. The aim of the 1979 scheme is to pay compensation to people who suffer from certain dust-related diseases or to their dependants.”
“The two statutory rules make amendments to the lump sum payment scheme under the Pneumoconiosis, etc., (Workers' Compensation) (Northern Ireland) Order 1979, which is known as the 1979 scheme. The regulations will increase the amount of the lump sum payments made via the 1979 scheme. There is no statutory requirement to increase the amounts paid through the scheme, but, as has been the case in previous years, the amounts are being increased from 1 April in line with inflation. Lump sum payments will increase by 6·7%, which is the inflation rate as measured by September 2023's consumer prices index (CPI). The increase is also in line with the increase to the industrial injuries disablement benefit (IIDB), to which the scheme is linked.”
“<BR /> <BR />I stand willing and committed to the delivery of the projects, but I ask Members and parties not to call for funding for those schools in the Assembly and then fail to support me at the Executive table, as that is where the key decisions will be taken. Across my Department's capital programmes, in every constituency and in every school sector, there is a wide range of much-needed investment projects that urgently need to be delivered. Today, let us commit to providing sustained and increased levels of capital investment to the education sector to prevent our children from being left behind in damp, mouldy classrooms in facilities from a previous century.”
“I ask every party in the Executive to support those bids, to remember the commitments given in the Assembly when it comes to Budget decisions, to support me to support those schools and to allocate sufficient capital budget to the education sector to allow those projects to proceed. <BR /> <BR />The large and unprecedented growth in the number of children with complex special educational needs has placed unsustainable pressure on my Department's capital budget and overtaken all previous planning assumptions, yet not a single additional pound of capital funding has been provided to my Department for additional special needs placements. Now that Fresh Start funding has been removed, it is not a sustainable situation.”
“<BR /> <BR />As is noted in the motion, I have written to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I did so in the strongest terms, to highlight the importance of the Fresh Start programme and to ask him to honour the funding for those projects. Unfortunately, he has responded to advise that there will be no funding beyond the current financial package, and that is, I know, deeply disappointing news for everybody concerned. I have, however, taken the action of placing the nine integrated projects and the Brookeborough campus into my Department's major capital works programme, and they will continue to progress in planning and design. I have also submitted high-priority bids for every project to the Department of Finance as part of the Budget process.”
“The Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone makes a powerful point in advocating for her constituency and the benefits of shared education. The work that I have witnessed in my constituency and through my work as Minister of Education across the length and breadth of this country shows that there are schools that work across all sectoral boundaries. That is how we will create a truly shared society. It will not be achieved by trying to create a hierarchy of sectors, where some are deemed to be better than others. That is the road to division. It is not what I want, and I do not believe that it is what other Members outside the Alliance Party want. Let us move forward on the basis that I have outlined and represent all sectors in Northern Ireland.”
“I am always happy to meet MLAs and have agreed to do that, because I have said that I will support all sectors, unlike Mr Carroll, who said that our education system was built on sectarianism. I ask Mr Carroll and the Alliance Party what message they are sending out to the controlled sector and the maintained sector. Ms Nicholl said, I quote, that shared education is not transformative. What an insult to those in our controlled and maintained sectors who do incredible work to support reconciliation. They meet regularly and provide opportunities for children and young people on a shared basis. The Alliance Party really needs to reflect on its approach and attitude to education.”
“Yes, Mr Carroll. I promised that I would give way.”
“The challenge to the Alliance Party is this: why was the motion, which is exclusive, does not treat others with equitability and is not fair to others, tabled? That is a question for them to answer. There is an amendment, which my party will support, that addresses that and provides an inclusive option that is fair and equitable. I hope that it will be supported. It corrects what, I hope, was an error on the part of the Alliance Party. If it was not a mistake, that speaks volumes for the Alliance position when it comes to how it will deal with education.”
“Therefore, it is regrettable, though predictable, that the motion as originally drafted refers only to integrated education and does not recognise the impact on the children, schools and communities that were promised investment in shared education campuses. <BR /> <BR />The motion is exclusive; it is not inclusive. It excludes eight schools that were part of the Fresh Start funding. There is a challenge for the Alliance Party in how it approaches education. As Minister of Education, I have made it clear that I will support all sectors. The Alliance Party has tabled a motion that is exclusive to one sector and does not recognise that the Fresh Start money included eight other schools as part of that funding model.”
“That is two schools, one controlled and one Catholic maintained, both strong in their own ethos and identity, coming together on one campus as one community, creating and enriching educational experience. <BR /> <BR />Before I conclude, I want to reflect on the removal of the Fresh Start funding by the UK Government. That funding was long promised to develop and support both shared and integrated education through providing much-needed facilities. Nine integrated schools and eight schools involved in shared education campuses at Strule and Brookeborough have been impacted by the removal of that funding.”
“It provides a model for collaborative working that takes account of difference and celebrates the wide range of identities and diversity that exists in Northern Ireland. A huge body of internationally recognised research highlights the impact of sustained regular contact through shared education as a mechanism for promoting reconciliation and driving school improvement. Shared education has a wide range of educational benefits and opportunities for learners to access a wide range of subjects, increase specialist teaching and facilitate the sharing of ideas and good practice between schools. <BR /> <BR />Two weeks ago, I was at the opening of the Limavady shared education campus, the very first campus of that type to open in Northern Ireland.”
“Every school delivers the statutory curriculum, including the learning areas of personal development and mutual understanding, local and global citizenship and learning for life and work. Those were developed specifically to enable young people to learn about themselves and others and to develop tolerance, respect and open-mindedness through understanding similarities and respecting differences between people in the local community and beyond. The curriculum is designed explicitly to help children and young people to develop as responsible citizens who show respect for others, understand different beliefs and cultures and develop informed, ethical views of complex issues. <BR /> <BR />I am mindful that, over the past number of years, shared education has, with much success, addressed the legacy of separation and division in our society.”
“While integrated schools will be an important part of our long-term progress, so will other schools and sectors. Pitting one school sector against another or elevating one school sector above all others is not the answer to society's ills. Rather, we must focus on building a truly high-quality school system in which all our children and young people can flourish, regardless of who they are, where they come from or which school they attend. <BR /> <BR />Many schools in Northern Ireland, from all sectors, now educate children and young people from diverse religious, ethnic and cultural backgrounds, and I welcome that. Schools have become adept at addressing community relations and diversity.”