Claire Sugden
East Londonderry · Independent · Northern Ireland
“That is, gosh, almost 35 years ago, yet we are still having the conversation in 2026. If I were to speak to that eight-year-old girl, I would tell her, "When you are 40, Claire, this will not even be a consideration for you". Sadly, however, it still is. It is deeply disappointing that, when we had an opportunity, it was not taken.”
“Indeed, I tabled an amendment to that Bill to achieve the desired outcome, but, sadly, the opportunity was not taken. One of the strengths of the Assembly is that Committees can identify where Executive legislation has fallen short and produce their own practical, targeted solutions.”
“Frankly, we should be listening. Sometimes, we talk about equality in broad terms, but the Bill reminds us that equality is often about practical things. It is about removing unnecessary barriers from everyday life and ensuring that opportunities and choices do not depend on arbitrary differences between schools.”
“That is ridiculous. The point that we should all pay attention to is that of girls feeling less exposed. We should focus on that even if there were no other reasons to pass the legislation. Girls simply want to get on with their school day without having to think about something that most boys take for granted.”
“That meeting was a reminder that issues that can appear small to adults — there have been adults who have asked why the Assembly is legislating on this — can be issues on which we need to legislate. When people do not behave appropriately, we as a legislature have a responsibility to legislate.”
“Around one in seven couples in Northern Ireland experiences fertility problems, yet Northern Ireland continues to offer one of the most limited publicly funded fertility services anywhere in the United Kingdom. Couples face lengthy waits, restricted eligibility criteria and fewer publicly funded IVF opportunities than elsewhere.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,208 lines we hold for Claire Sugden, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 16 of 45.
“I do not intend to speak for too long. I just want to provide my rationale for what I intend to do in the Divisions this evening. <BR /> <BR />The Climate Change Bill has served a significant purpose because it prompted the Minister to do his job on climate change. I have no doubt that, without the work of Ms Bailey, the various co-sponsors of that Bill and the strong network of activists, we would not have this opportunity today to respond to an Executive Bill on climate change, which is actually a really good thing.”
“That is not what this is, and the practicalities of it are not disproportionate to what people think.”
“<BR /> <BR />Speaking to the House and to the people of Northern Ireland, I know that this has been a really difficult two years with COVID and other issues, and we need to do all that we can to prevent deaths and sickness, ensuring that we have a public health service that can get to the other issues, because it is not right that we prioritise this over every other illness. We should prioritise every critical and urgent illness. I hate to use the phrase, "We are where we are", but, if this is about protecting the health service and stopping it becoming overwhelmed, this is not disproportionate. Minister, if you are coming back to me in a number of weeks and saying that there will be mandatory vaccinations, I put it on record now that I will not support that.”
“We saw joint press conferences and a united message, but, as we have got closer to an election, he is on his own. I do not envy him in that task. I do not think that the Health Minister would do this if he did not have to. I reluctantly will support the regulations, but I do it only on the basis that they will be contained and will be kept under regular review with a mind that they will end when they are no longer appropriate. That is the basis that we keep having to come back to on all these things.”
“This is not about strong-arming people out the door. It is not about having a heated conversation. Again, businesses need guidance on that. Miss Woods pointed to an awful lot of this. It all comes down to poor communication, with businesses not knowing what they can and cannot do and what the consequences will be. <BR /> <BR />I will wrap up my general comments. People have asked for the evidence. If it is there, show us it. If it is there, make it clear to people. Back up everything that we do with rationale. I am sympathetic to the Health Minister because I recognise that he is, to an extent, on his own in relation to the public health message. That has become clear in the past six months. At the outset, we saw all the Executive Ministers working together.”
“Again, for me, it is a positive thing to take a lateral flow test in order to know that, when I go into an environment, I am not potentially infecting people. I do not know why we are taking it in a personal and precious way. For me, it comes back to that sense of responsibility. <BR /> <BR />On enforcement issues, again I go back to the point in the regulations about having "a reasonable system" in place. Perhaps this is where we need better communication and guidance from the Department of Health and the Department of Justice on what enforcement has to look like and at what point it becomes a breach. If a business has a written statement, as provided for in the regulations, to say that the system is in place and is seen to be consistently applying that system, it is working within the regulations.”
“<BR /> <BR />A lot of this comes down to personal responsibility. As someone said, you could flash a fake COVID cert at the door. Again, that is an offence under the regulations. Sure, you could go into a shop and shoplift. On that point, you have to recognise that there is an element of personal responsibility in this. <BR /> <BR />I want to ask the Health Minister about data protection and GDPR. I take the point in relation to having to flash your medical status in some way. I am curious to know how the Health Minister has looked at and considered that. Again, it is about the proportionality of what people are being asked to do and the risk that comes with disclosing or perhaps not disclosing such information.”
“Again, we have to come back to the point of the regulations and why we are making them. From the outset, I have maintained that the COVID restrictions are not primarily about stopping people getting COVID but about stopping people getting COVID and adding further pressure onto an already overwhelmed public health service. People have said to me, "You have had 10 years to fix the service". Absolutely we have, and three of those years were completely wasted. We had a plan in 2016. I will come back to the point in hand, Mr Speaker. What I am trying to say is that, yes, there are winter pressures every year — absolutely there are — but COVID is an additional pressure, and we have to do what we can to remove that additional pressure, as well as others. I am sure the Health Minister is working through those too.”
“If you go to the cinema, you are asked to show your ticket. When you go to an event, you are asked to show your ticket. What will actually happen on the ground is minimal. <BR /> <BR />I accept that there are some challenges for older people. Generally, that comes down to the Executive's failure to pass age discrimination legislation on goods, services and facilities. We have to look at better ways of providing COVID certification for older groups. I hear that the turnaround times are significant. That in itself is not a good thing if we are trying to be fair to all in society. <BR /> <BR />Mr Allister, Miss Woods and even Mr Carroll made a point about the provision of lateral flow tests or rapid testing for everyone, rather than just the unvaccinated. Maybe we need to look at that so that there is not that differential.”
“I accept that there will be an impact on business. Again, we have to look at how it works in practice, rather than what we assume will happen. I attended the Christmas market a couple of weeks ago, and staff were enforcing COVID certification. It was simply a flash. It was a system put in place as outlined in the regulations, and my understanding — I am sure that the Minister will talk to this — is that it is nothing more than that. It is about businesses demonstrating that they are going as far as can be reasonably expected in order to prove that the people at their establishment, premises or event are unlikely to have COVID and are unlikely to pass it on. That is really important. Members have talked about the additional people who have to be put in place. Certainly, on licensed premises, people are asked for ID.”
“This is not discrimination as I understand it, unless someone wants to describe it to me as having gender discrimination, sexual orientation discrimination or perhaps even disability discrimination. What people are really talking about is prejudice. If that is the case, we need to look at that. That again comes back to good communication more than anything else.”
“<BR /> <BR />People should not take it on themselves to treat others abusively, incorrectly or make other people feel less than they are because they have taken a decision that they are entitled to take. That is another important point. Yes, the Minister and others are trying to encourage a roll-out of the vaccination, and it has been very successful — over 90% uptake. However, we should not undermine those who have chosen not to be vaccinated for various reasons. <BR /> <BR />I have heard a lot about discrimination. I am not legally trained, but my understanding of discrimination, particularly in Northern Ireland, is very specific in relation to the law.”
“I say that in a limited way, because I am not fully versed in the way that some people are. Coercive vaccinations: are we creating a society where we almost discourage people from going out and having social interactions because of these vaccinations? I do not think so. Again, I come back to this point: this is not mandatory vaccination. There are other mechanisms in these regulations by which you can demonstrate your COVID status. That is very important. When the Minister originally announced that he would be doing this, I was the first to say to him, "Hold on a minute." However, in fairness to him, he brought out other measures. It means that people are not being forced to get the vaccination. We do not live in a society where vaccination is mandatory, and that is right. There are many reasons why people cannot have vaccinations.”
“That is why people are contacting me about their assumptions on this and why they are concerned about mandatory vaccination. I have spoken to a large number of people in the past week and have described to them what the regulations are. Eventually, they say, "Actually, that is not too bad." <BR /> <BR />We have to be mindful of what we are voting on, not what is assumed, and not the slippery slope. I am sure that the Minister will assure us that, if he goes down the path of mandatory vaccination, he will not take that responsibility on his own. He will take it to the Northern Ireland Executive, I imagine. When he brings it to the House, that will be the point at which we vote for or against it. <BR /> <BR />I want to address all the concerns of the many people who have contacted me. I feel that I can address them.”
“However, that is not what this is. As Members of the House, we are debating very specific legislation, specific regulations. I have read through the regulations: this is not mandatory vaccination. <BR /> <BR />In fairness, I do not dismiss anyone who has raised concerns with this. If it were only one or two people throwing out wild accusations, maybe: but it is not. Thousands have contacted me in relation to this, so it is important that we listen and try to understand their concerns and, perhaps, dispel the myths that people are being fed. <BR /> <BR />Ms Woods made a diligent effort to describe what is happening. Ultimately, where we are in society is a result of shockingly poor communication from the Northern Ireland Executive.”
“I make a point of saying "these regulations" because I have pored over the legislation and have read what they say. I am not voting on what people assume are in the regulations or on what could, potentially, happen as a result of them. I have heard Members talk about the thin end of the wedge and the slippery slope to something further. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, what people are concerned about is mandatory vaccination. However, that is not what is in these regulations. It is not about mandatory vaccination. If we were voting on mandatory vaccination, I would be keen to understand whether it would require primary legislation rather than the regulations that are in place. If tonight, we were voting on mandatory vaccination, I would not support it, and I can wholeheartedly say that to everyone who has contacted me about that.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to make the point that, in what happens here today, in the vote we will take after the Minister speaks, it will not be possible to overturn these regulations. Indeed, it is not even a standard thing. That is not to say that we should not debate it or have a conversation and vote on it. However, typically, this is a rubber stamp. A lot of the contributions that I heard are disingenuous. More could have been done, in practical terms, to stop these regulations rather than what is happening in this debate. That is an important point to put on record, and it is important for other Members when they consider how they will vote. What is this really about? I ask anyone listening to the debate from outside the Chamber to reflect on that. <BR /> <BR />I accept these regulations.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but the point of my raising the petition of concern is that I am being coerced, as a Member of the House, to vote for these regulations on the basis that I am the most powerful person in the House, and that is simply not true. For my own integrity, I want to put on record that I do not have that power. Let us make it clear for the record, and let us make it clear for all those people who have contacted me about these regulations: 30 Members will not make the vote pass. A minimum of 45 votes will be needed. That means, again, that this is theatre, because anyone suggesting otherwise is suggesting something that is not true.”
“My understanding is that it can. To satisfy the 1,700 people who have contacted me, I spoke to Members who had allegedly signed this petition of concern. They do not know anything about it. In fact, they were not even contacted, because, allegedly, they had already signed it. I contacted the Business Office to see whether the petition of concern had been laid there. It had not. No one had heard of it.”
“It is probably getting closer to 1,700 at this point. Those emails have been from people in New York, people in London and people in Ireland, who have been saying to me, "Claire, please sign a petition of concern. You are the only person who can do this". There is some suggestion that I am the most powerful woman in the world. I wish that I did have that power, but I do not. Again, it is this theatre that suggests that this is more than what it is.”
“Am I correct in saying that that party could have backed up not voting for those regulations by blocking them? I am quite happy to take an intervention if someone wants to confirm that. If that is the case — I get that understanding from an occasion when the same party exercised that option last year — what is this debate about? Is it about posturing to the public and saying that you are trying to do something when, really, you could have done something that was more meaningful than the vote tonight, given that four of the five parties will vote for this? This feels like theatre. <BR /> <BR />Gerry Carroll MLA and I have been targeted by a worldwide campaign suggesting that there was a petition of concern that only he and I could have voted for. I have received over 1,500 emails from people from Northern Ireland since last night.”
“Tonight, to be honest, very much feels like theatre, and I will go into that point in a bit more depth in a minute, because I want to labour the point about statutory rules and secondary legislation. When the Northern Ireland Executive did not sit for three years, senior civil servants in various Departments were passing legislation like this. They did so because there was concern that we would not get through the legislation in the House. If we have issues with that, we need to look at our whole process and our whole system. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned tonight's debate being like theatre, and, if I am wrong, I would love someone to intervene to correct me. My understanding is that a vote on these regulations was taken in the Northern Ireland Executive, and I accept that one party in that Executive did not vote for them.”
“I am incredibly frustrated by the debate. This is secondary legislation empowered by primary legislation. On reviewing the regulations, I noted that they are not empowered by the Coronavirus Act, which I assumed, but by public health legislation that has been on the statute book for a considerable number of years. <BR /> <BR />I find it interesting that some Members point to the fact that we had not debated the regulations before they came into effect. The House passes statutory rules and secondary legislation. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the number is 351 this year; maybe I am wrong. A considerable number of statutory rules go through the House daily without being signed off or voted on.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will turn to what is perhaps a notable justification that was made by other Members, which was that there is not enough time in the mandate to get the Bill through. That is a really poor argument for not supporting the legislation. It will be really interesting to see if those Members apply that same rationale to other Bills in the mandate, particularly Bills from their own party. Let the process fail the Bill, let three years of no government fail it, but do not fail the Bill through mealy-mouthed tactics to ride both sides of the argument because you are worried about an election next year. If the practical concerns really are your driver, at least send a key message that this form of animal cruelty is wrong by supporting this stage of the Bill.”
“However, other areas of the UK and Ireland that are broadly like-minded with us and have similar circumstances and environment have now set a standard against animal cruelty. Why, then, do some in the House want to be at odds with that? Why are they opposed to positive legislation and/or policy that wants to remove a form of animal cruelty? That is a really odd key message. I appreciate that, if it is in the detail, let us work on it, rather than throwing out something positive for Northern Ireland that quite a lot of people, probably the majority, want to see ended. Again, I will reference Mr Stalford. This is the Second Stage. Surely the principle is to stop this type of animal cruelty, and I really do not understand how anyone would be opposed to that.”
“I did not interpret that from the draft legislation, but I am not legally trained. Mr Allister is, so maybe he raises a valid point. On the point that Mr Allister made about a strict liability offence, that is the offence as drafted. Can we mitigate it in some way so that it does not put that strict liability offence on to those people and so that it is not the case that, if you are walking your dog, you will potentially be committing an offence? Let us not make this an excuse not to do something that is right. <BR /> <BR />Another usually compelling argument for me in this type of debate is that we are the only region of the UK not to have this law. We do not always have to fall in line with other regions of the UK or, indeed, Ireland.”
“It can only be described as "harmless" in a world where animal welfare is disregarded. That is the not the world that we live in. I am sure that, in some areas, it is, but it is not where need to be in 2021. It is interesting to hear that, when a similar debate happened over 10 years ago, some of the same arguments were made then. Northern Ireland can exist in its own bubble, but this one really does need to be burst, because abuse, sadly, can be considered social. It is most definitely traditional, but that does not make it right or, indeed, a behaviour that we should continue to accept because it is what we have always done or, to put it crudely, because it is someone's hobby. <BR /> <BR />Similar to the points raised by Mr McGlone and others, there is the concern, as we heard recently from Mr Allister and others, that:”
“Let us take it to the next stage, and let us get the Bill to a point where we can stop the abuse and address Members' concerns. <BR /> <BR />Like all Members, I have received a lot of correspondence from constituents on both sides of the debate — to the extent that John has his own folder in my email inbox. Anecdotally, I have probably received more messages from those who support the Bill, but there are many reasons why that could be the case, so I do not intend to focus on the numbers but rather the reasons outlined. Overwhelmingly, people see this as cruel, unnecessary, outdated and barbaric. I agree, and the counterarguments do nothing to persuade me otherwise. I have received correspondence, as, I am sure, others have, describing this activity as "traditional", "social" and "harmless". My goodness, it is not harmless.”
“I thank Mr Stalford for his intervention. I will draw it back to the point that I was making. Yes, human nature is such that people will do those things, but, at the same time, that does not mean that we should not write good law. I fully support the Bill, but, if we can make it better, is that not where we all want to be? <BR /> <BR />The point that I was trying to make was in response to what Mr Stalford said earlier about intent. Is it enough to assume intent, given all the potential variables that alter perception, or do we need to strengthen the law so that the unintended consequences that Mr McGlone and others speak of are not reached? To clarify, I support the Bill, but, if it needs to be strengthened, we need to do that.”
“That is fine if those reasons are informed, unbiased, proportionate and thoughtful of risk, but human nature is such that error and bias are inevitable in some cases, and perspective has a —”
“However, if we can reassure or satisfy, even at the stages to come, those who raise valid concerns about the unintended consequences, I would be happy to look at those, as others have indicated that they would. <BR /> <BR />Specifically, Mr McGlone raised issues about firearms certificates. Again, in my previous role, I had experience of that. Mr McGlone is right that the firearms branch of the PSNI is responsible for granting and revoking licences. In cases of appeal, the process sometimes ends with the Minister of Justice, so I have read my fair share of firearms appeals. Mr McGlone is correct that a criminal offence is not necessarily required to remove a firearms licence; it can be removed for other reasons.”
“I am not sure at this point whether it is necessary to amend Mr Blair's Bill to address those points, while giving effect to stopping this form of animal cruelty. However, we should look at that where there are genuine reasons why people are uncomfortable with the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate Mr McGlone's contribution. For about five minutes a number of years ago, I was the Minister of Justice, and I met Mr McGlone and a delegation of those involved in country sports. They are not sports that I have ever been interested in or that I am particularly familiar with, so I reflect their experience and expertise in the area. When Mr McGlone is raising concerns, we have to be cognisant of some of them. I will not be disingenuous. I support the Bill because the abuse needs to stop.”
“I rise to support the Second Stage of Mr Blair's private Member's Bill. I concur with Mr Stalford and other Members who spoke earlier in the debate. Generally and on the point of principle, I fully support what Mr Blair is trying to do through the Bill, because this type of "sport" is barbaric. Having listened to the previous contributions, I see a differential in defining what we mean by "sport" and what we mean by "instinct". It is almost the difference between prevention and encouragement. The Bill is trying to stop humans encouraging their animals into this type of animal abuse. <BR /> <BR />Members who raise interesting points that are in conflict with the proposed legislation do so on the basis of detail rather than principle.”
“How do we get back to that one message, rather than just saying that we need to be there?”
“I thank the Minister. The effectiveness of measures that have been announced today, and potentially in the future, will depend on compliance. However, the public are lethargic and confused, and they lack confidence in a publicly divided Government, but, most importantly, they are worried about their livelihoods. Statutory sick pay is not enough for 10 days' self-isolation. It is in that context that you will make your decisions. I appreciate that public health is your primary concern. What support is being given to people, or, at least, being discussed around the Northern Ireland Executive table? How are you trying to get on one message? You talk of it, yet we have had no more press conferences. We do not see people coming together. We see Ministers fighting on Twitter.”
“<BR /> <BR />I stand in solidarity today with colleagues who have experienced threats and with those in other roles who do not feel safe in their work owing to aggression, sexual abuse, assault and murder. We take for granted our safety, particularly given where we have come from in Northern Ireland. Sadly, however, in 2021, we should not, and, like others, I have had unwanted attention in my home, in my office and online. We do not think of what happens next, because it is unthinkable, so we just get on with it, but that is not enough any more. We have to do something about this, not just for our individual safety but so that we can get society back to a better place. I stand with everyone in trying to do that.”
“I, too, offer my condolences to the family, friends, colleagues and constituents of Sir David Amess, MP for Southend West. His killing is an attack on democracy, on representation and on humanity. He was a husband and a father. On Friday, like most of us, he was serving his constituency. He did not deserve to die for holding views and values that were different from someone else's. He did not deserve to be a consequence of a radicalised society and a palpable anger that exists amongst us. Challenge should be positive and an opportunity to improve and share ideas, not incitement to hatred, not incitement to kill. We all need to take responsibility and reflect on our words and actions, both of which can move others to a bad place. We must lead them towards a better place.”
“Would there be an opportunity at Consideration Stage to strengthen the Bill on the concern that Mr Allister has, given that that influence could be a positive one rather than a negative one, as has been suggested?”
“It traumatises them, which in itself leads to poor choices with which the protesters will also disagree. They are effectively reinforcing what they describe as "bad choices". <BR /> <BR />Safe access zones do not occur across the UK, but maybe they need to. We need to focus on protecting people and patients. That must be where we start. I appreciate that other Members pointed to clauses that technically may not work, but that is what Consideration Stage is for. If there are issues, I certainly welcome Members tabling amendments so that we could focus the Bill in the right way. It is an important Bill, and I commend the Member for bringing it to the House.”
“Indeed, that is what the Bill focuses on: the people who are affected by these protests; the victims. <BR /> <BR />The Bill does not hinder free speech; it protects others. Protests can still take place, but at a safe distance. I fully recognise the right to free speech, but I also recognise that speech ceases to be free when it limits the freedoms of others. The law, too, recognises that through legislation on hate crime, discrimination, incitement to hate etc and, hopefully in the future, through the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude by talking about trauma. We often hear pro-life people say that they want to support women to make better choices around abortion. To an extent, I appreciate that, but I put it to those people that witnessing or protesting is not supporting women.”
“<BR /> <BR />Issues about the previous clinic that I mentioned have gone. I understand that there are those who continue to protest, but the atmosphere and hostility are gone. The danger has been moved not just for the patients and the health and social care staff but for the protesters themselves, who, at the previous clinic, found themselves in situations. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken to those who protest, because I genuinely want to understand their concerns, as I am their elected representative as much as anyone else's. I take time to listen to all sides of the argument. They told me that they describe that type of protest as "witnessing". However, it feels that it has gone beyond that, and I ask protesters to reflect on what their actions do to others, because the victims cannot be removed from what the protests do.”
“This week, due to a family matter, I have been in Causeway Hospital quite a lot, and, my goodness, the patients, their families and the staff do not need this — those staff save people's lives and keep their heads above water. I am 100% glad that we protect our hospitals, but why would we not do that in any other healthcare setting experiencing similar pressures? <BR /> <BR />To come back to my personal story, I was fine, because at that point I had not realised that the services had been moved to Causeway Hospital, thereby creating an organic buffer zone. That example shows that Ms Bailey's proposals can work. Those who wish to exercise their right to protest or to witness can continue to do so, albeit from a safe, appropriate distance that does not diminish healthcare or create further harm for patients and health and social care staff.”
“Let us put distance between those who are accessing healthcare to which they are entitled and the protests and behaviour that harm them. <BR /> <BR />I worked in pharmacy for a number of years, and I was trained in medical confidentiality. Let us be clear: confidentiality is not just about what you say or tell someone; it is as much about not acknowledging someone because you have seen them going for a medical consultation that could indirectly indicate their treatment. It is important that we protect people's medical information. Clare's Bill does that by adding general protection for healthcare. Please correct me if I am wrong but this protection is provided to patients at all hospitals. Protesters are not allowed into hospital grounds; they have to protest at a distance.”
“Ironically, they have to explain themselves to the very people who defended in the House yesterday the right to medical confidentiality when it comes to double vaccination but feel that they can interfere in people's confidentiality when it comes to reproductive healthcare. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that Members think that I, and any other person, do not have to disclose that information. However, this behaviour, and the environment that is created through these protests and other violent action, does not give women that choice. I will not go into detail as to why I was there. However, let me say this: being female means invasiveness. Until you grow a uterus and experience that, you cannot imagine how difficult healthcare can be for women, even when we are healthy.”
“What type of freedom of speech is it when it limits others because of the harm that it creates? Being traumatised is not being free. Being harassed is its own prison. <BR /> <BR />I will share a personal experience. I attended the community clinic in Coleraine for contraception in August. I had a scheduled appointment, and I was terrified going to that clinic to access family planning services, as is my right as a woman. However, I was scared in case someone accosted me, shouted at me or shoved leaflets in my face, and I very nearly cancelled my appointment. I did, however, reassure myself that, if someone did approach me, I would explain to them that I was accessing other healthcare. <BR /> <BR />This is what we are doing to women: we are putting them in a position in which they have to explain themselves and disclose their healthcare.”
“I have been contacted by people who were simply walking by or going into the clinic for other services, because the clinic in Coleraine is a community clinic. They described to me the aggression and violence. <BR /> <BR />Others mentioned the images. I have been contacted by parents expressing distress at being unable to shield their children from seeing them. For women who have suffered miscarriage to have those images foisted upon them is truly awful. This is Baby Loss Awareness Week, when women and families will share their heartbreaking stories of baby loss and the pain that they will inevitably carry with them for the rest of their lives. To then be subjected to this behaviour is really unbelievable, and no one in the House should accept it.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the law is robust enough, it may act as a deterrent, but how likely is that, particularly when those creating this form of harm do not recognise it themselves? What I like about Ms Bailey's Bill is that it seeks to prevent harm. It does not wait until after the harm is done. It is proactive rather than reactive. Rather than providing weak comfort after the event, it is protective, and we should seek to stop harm. <BR /> <BR />In Coleraine, several incidents resulted in physical and mental harm to those protesting as well as those accessing and working in the clinic. That is not good. It has created a hostile atmosphere. It scares people. It traumatises many, not just those accessing and working in the clinic.”
“There are attempts to frustrate the implementation of this law, and perhaps these protests are an example of that. However, no one is breaking the law by accessing these services. If anything, the behaviour of some protesters is extraordinary. It is imperative that we protect those using these clinics as well as those who work in them, because it is the law. <BR /> <BR />Some Members talked about current laws, particularly harassment laws, and asked why we do not utilise and/or strengthen them. Yes, harassment law is poor and is poorly implemented. In recognition of that, five years ago, I instigated domestic abuse legislation. Harassment law, even if it were to be improved, is reactionary. It is pursued after the offence has allegedly occurred, after the harm has been done.”
“Northern Ireland elects 18 MPs to the Commons, so, if Members disagree with the law, perhaps have a word with them, particularly those who had the ear of Downing Street at the point at which the law was made.”
“I support the principles of the Bill at Second Stage. A safe access zone around a healthcare clinic: how can we disagree with that? I appreciate that the zones are specific to abortion clinics. Had they not been specific to them, however, would Members and others have an issue, particularly if there were similar behaviour taking place? I cannot change the law on abortion in Northern Ireland. It was a decision that the United Kingdom Government took. Members have talked about democracy, but, like it or not, Northern Ireland remains under the jurisdiction of the UK Parliament, which is supreme. What happens in Westminster therefore is democracy.”