Claire Sugden
East Londonderry · Independent · Northern Ireland
“That is, gosh, almost 35 years ago, yet we are still having the conversation in 2026. If I were to speak to that eight-year-old girl, I would tell her, "When you are 40, Claire, this will not even be a consideration for you". Sadly, however, it still is. It is deeply disappointing that, when we had an opportunity, it was not taken.”
“Indeed, I tabled an amendment to that Bill to achieve the desired outcome, but, sadly, the opportunity was not taken. One of the strengths of the Assembly is that Committees can identify where Executive legislation has fallen short and produce their own practical, targeted solutions.”
“Frankly, we should be listening. Sometimes, we talk about equality in broad terms, but the Bill reminds us that equality is often about practical things. It is about removing unnecessary barriers from everyday life and ensuring that opportunities and choices do not depend on arbitrary differences between schools.”
“That is ridiculous. The point that we should all pay attention to is that of girls feeling less exposed. We should focus on that even if there were no other reasons to pass the legislation. Girls simply want to get on with their school day without having to think about something that most boys take for granted.”
“That meeting was a reminder that issues that can appear small to adults — there have been adults who have asked why the Assembly is legislating on this — can be issues on which we need to legislate. When people do not behave appropriately, we as a legislature have a responsibility to legislate.”
“Around one in seven couples in Northern Ireland experiences fertility problems, yet Northern Ireland continues to offer one of the most limited publicly funded fertility services anywhere in the United Kingdom. Couples face lengthy waits, restricted eligibility criteria and fewer publicly funded IVF opportunities than elsewhere.”
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“No, I have not met the family of the man, but I am quite happy to do so if they wish to get in touch with the Department. Indeed, my director general said that she was happy to meet the family as well. For me, what is concerning about this, Mr Kelly, is the fact that I do not believe that my officers were equipped to deal with this very serious case that involved mental health problems, and we need to look at that. Thankfully, this will not present itself very often, but the fact that it did is an issue for me and something that I am keen to look at.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I said to Mr Attwood during Question Time, the report makes for very difficult reading, and I am very sorry that this happened to this young man. He has been left with life-changing injuries, as you said, and we need to look at the processes. From our perspective, the Prisoner Ombudsman's report has put forward 63 recommendations, which fall not only within my remit but within that of the South Eastern Trust. We need to see how we can best utilise them so that we do not have a circumstance like this again.”
“It is very early stages, but I am minded to look at the patterns that officers are working — we have an awful lot more female prison officers — and how that impacts on their family life and also at their general conversations and engagement with hierarchy in the Prison Service. There is now an opportunity with the new director general, whoever he or she may be, to implement that change and shift in mindset and think about how we can better support our prison officers.”
“Again, however, I am happy to take Members' thoughts and perhaps hear about their interactions with various people to inform me on this.”
“We are at the very early stages of our thinking on how we deal with welfare issues, particularly mental health, relating to prison officers. Earlier in Question Time, the focus was on the mental health issues of prisoners, but the Member rightly points to the mental health issues of prison officers. As I said earlier, working in the prison environment is like no other. It is isolated and challenging. We need to pay due regard to the impact of that on officers. We are looking at a modernisation programme, as I mentioned earlier, that will look at how we can better support officers. I am mindful that, if we are to look after prisoners in these establishments, that starts with looking after our prison officers. I appreciate the question, and it is something that we are keen to do.”
“Yes, of course, I agree entirely. This is a very worrying trend. It seems that people are using the Internet to commit crime in a very different way than before and so that it is almost hidden. It is completely worrying that they are using it to manipulate our children, and, again, we need to be entirely mindful of that. Parents need to be mindful of it, but there needs to be wider education around how young people use the Internet. It not just young people. Older people of all ages are targeted by these types of perpetrators online. The Member raises a very important point, and it is something that we will be looking at in the Department.”
“I thank the Member for his question. This is a very topical issue, particularly given recent news reports. Widely, we do not seem to have an entire focus on the pitfalls of the Internet and what it can be used to do, from an abuse point of view most critically but also through cybercrime against businesses and all of that. I recently met an Organised Crime Task Force group, and the pitfalls of the Internet and how it can be used to exploit children, and also people generally through financial fraud and various issues, was raised with me. I am keen to put a focus on that, because I think that we in Northern Ireland are behind in our thinking on the dangers of the Internet. When we get to a point where we feel comfortable, we will probably be behind again. It is something that we need to have a keen eye on as soon as possible.”
“I have not engaged specifically with that group, but I have regular meetings with the Lord Chief Justice, and it is an issue that he has raised with me. The thinking around it seems to be very much at the early stages. I am quite happy to have discussions with the Lord Chief Justice and the group, if that is how he wishes us to move forward and if that is the most appropriate thing to do.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Yes, I am familiar with the Lord Chief Justice's wishes around the non-ministerial department. We are working quite closely with the Lord Chief Justice to try to understand the advantages and disadvantages of what he is asking for. I respect entirely the independence of the judiciary, but sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for. By all means, if the Lord Chief Justice is keen to take this off my hands and he knows the repercussions of doing so, I am quite happy to look at that. It is not something that I am particularly against.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The purpose of the working group is to take an expert view on this particular area. So, it is made up of public medical professionals. I do not think that anyone is predisposed on this. The purpose of the exercise is to be entirely informed on the issue in the most appropriate way.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The working group will report to the Health Minister and me and will provide a number of recommendations in that area. It will then be up to us to find a way of moving forward, because this will not be a decision for me or the Health Minister alone. Any legislative change, if that is what is recommended, will have to go through the wider Executive.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My understanding is that the role of the Attorney General is to provide legal advice to the Northern Ireland Executive, but I imagine that any Minister worth their salt would take a range of views when considering this type of issue. The Attorney General, as the Member knows, is entirely independent, and the decisions he takes are within his gift and his gift only. When I am balancing an issue that affects the people of Northern Ireland, I will consider a wide range of the views that have been put to me, so there will not be an opportunity for one person to influence me.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am sure that he is fully aware that prenatal care for women in these situations would be fully a matter for the Health Minister. I have worked with the Health Minister on the issue to see how we can progress it, because, whilst the legal aspects of this will fall within my jurisdiction, there is a concern from a health perspective that she should be involved as well.”
“Yes, I entirely agree with that point. This is an emotive issue. The Member will not be familiar with this, but we had a very long and quite respectful debate on the issue before the election. <BR /> <BR />Of course, people need to be heard on the wider issue. The fatal foetal abnormality working group was set up to hear the viewpoint of practitioners and experts in that particular medical field. So, whilst I would not want to presume the recommendations that might come out of that working group next week, I will wait, along with the Health Minister, to see how we can move forward.”
“I understand that the working group on fatal foetal abnormality has met on three occasions and has carried out additional engagement work. The group aims to report to the Health Minister and me by the end of September.”
“<BR /> <BR />To come back to what else we can do, I am very much at the beginning of a five-year mandate, and it is an area that I really do have quite a passion for and am keen to address. A lot of the work that has been done up until now was perhaps already ongoing under my predecessor. However, over the next five years, I will be really keen to engage with the community and voluntary sector on the matter and try to get suggestions from other jurisdictions to see what we can do. I am open to those suggestions. I know that the Member has a specific interest in this, so if she has any ideas I would be keen to meet and discuss them.”
“I thank the Member for her question. She mentions domestic homicides. My Department previously explored the issue of domestic homicide reviews by setting up a working group to scope serious case reviews already in place across relevant Departments and agencies and to consider initial options for delivery. It was agreed that further work was required to ensure that a proposed model would be suitable for Northern Ireland and link into a complex context of reviews identified. The DOJ has therefore committed, under the action plan for the new stopping domestic and sexual violence and abuse strategy, to developing an appropriate model to identify lessons learned and improve responses to cases of domestic homicide in Northern Ireland. Work has commenced, and additional resources have been secured to progress the initiative.”
“I thank the Member for her question, in which she mentioned coercive control. My Department recently undertook a public consultation that sought views on whether a specific domestic abuse offence to capture patterns of coercive and controlling behaviour should be introduced in law. Although I will want to consult the Justice Committee and enter into wider engagement with the community and voluntary sector, I am minded to move forward on the issue.”
“I thank the Member for his inference. No, I hope that you do not have to wait another six years. I would like to get the work done a little bit quicker than that. <BR /> <BR />To be fair to my predecessor, with the pilot arrangement in Derry, there were issues around how we could better support victims that came out of the OECD report. He recommended that we could perhaps further enhance the arrangements under the pilot scheme so that we can see whether it is appropriate to roll it out across Northern Ireland. We are looking at that. As I said, this is my overarching priority for the next five years. If I can go some way towards tackling the issue, we can solve a lot of social and economic problems across Northern Ireland. Therefore, yes, I hope that it will be a lot sooner than six years.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The arrangement in Derry has been very successful. When we look at the new enhancements to that arrangement, we may be minded to see whether it would be appropriate to roll out the scheme across Northern Ireland. I take the Member's point about a wider public awareness programme. To be honest, before becoming Minister, I was not aware of the arrangement in Derry, probably thankfully. <BR /> <BR />You are right, however. People will be encouraged to come forward to report such offences if they are better supported. It is a challenging thing to stand up in court and give evidence, particularly if you are a victim. It has been seen that there is a reluctance to do so, whereas in a supportive environment we are seeing an increase in the number of people coming forward, and that can only be a good thing.”
“In my role as Justice Minister, I have already met Lord Chief Justice Sir Declan Morgan, and I will continue to engage with him and other stakeholders as I look to the future of this specific arrangement and in seeking more widely to address domestic and sexual violence and abuse in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Londonderry listing arrangement also formed part of the study undertaken by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development in June 2015 as part of the public governance review. Its report heralds the success of the domestic violence listing arrangement and recommends the inclusion of a judicially supervised pilot programme for perpetrators. Rigorous monitoring and evaluation will provide insight into the added value of judicial oversight as part of the domestic violence listing arrangement and inform future decisions on the most effective model for dealing with domestic violence cases in the court system. <BR /> <BR />My Department is, therefore, taking the necessary steps to enhance the existing domestic violence listing arrangement through the introduction of a pilot court-supervised perpetrator programme.”
“Relevant agencies, including the support services, concentrate their efforts and resources into those days in order to provide moral and practical support to victims. <BR /> <BR />An evaluation of the scheme, undertaken in 2014, indicated that the arrangement makes a tangible difference to victims of domestic violence and abuse who have to face what is often a daunting and overwhelming journey through the criminal justice process. Some improvements to support services available to victims were identified, and, in March this year, my predecessor announced that the arrangements should be enhanced before further consideration is given to rolling out the model across other areas of Northern Ireland.”
“Tackling domestic and sexual violence and abuse is a key priority for me as Justice Minister. I am committed to ensuring that victims who are encouraged to engage with the criminal justice system are provided with effective protection and support, and that perpetrators are held to account. I believe that there is a desire across the Executive to address the issue, as evidenced not only by the all-party group on domestic violence but by the support of the Justice Committee, and I look forward to working with colleagues as we move forward on that. <BR /> <BR />I commend the approach in Derry of delivering special listing arrangements for domestic violence cases. The arrangements, which were introduced by District Judge McElholm in 2011, ensure that domestic violence cases are clustered and heard by him on specifically designated days.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As he will be fully informed of, the new build at Magilligan is part of a wider redevelopment process, the first phase of which is the redevelopment at Magilligan. I look forward to cutting the first sod on that, which, hopefully, will be very soon, but it is subject to capital investment. After that, we can proceed with plans in other areas.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Earlier in Question Time, we had a conversation around mental health. You also referred to ADHD and autism, which need to be considered for people coming into the criminal justice system. We are at the very early stages of trying to understand what that looks like for the Prison Service. If it forms part of our modernisation programme for prison officers and there are opportunities for them to develop and to understand prisoners' needs better in those areas, we will look at that. The opportunity that we have now is to look at how we move forward in understanding better the needs of prisoners and prison officers.”
“I thank the Member for his questions. He can be assured that I, more than anyone, am quite keen to see this build go ahead. Indeed, you referred to the approved business case that will go forward when capital funding is secured. I agree with the comments about the manufacturing industry; this is a very significant project. It is important to note that this is also an invest-to-save project. When we finally get a fully developed prison, we will see savings. It will also make it safer for prison staff to carry out the rehabilitation programmes that we talked about earlier. I am committed to ensuring that we move forward on the project when capital investment is secured.”
“It would be remiss of me to say that I have no idea. By all means, the building work will start when we can secure capital funding. If that were to happen soon, for example, I would expect a fully developed prison to be delivered by 2025-26.”
“An outline business case for the redevelopment of Magilligan prison was approved by the Department of Finance in January 2015. Project delivery is dependent on the provision of capital funding. That will be considered as part of the process of setting the next budget. I will not, unfortunately, be able to confirm when the rebuilding of Magilligan prison will commence until capital funding is secured. I am, though, fully committed to providing a redeveloped prison at Magilligan to enable the Northern Ireland Prison Service to deliver essential programmes to address reoffending behaviour, meet Disability Discrimination Act standards and replace the existing infrastructure, which has outlived its useful purpose and is expensive and inefficient to staff, maintain and operate.”
“Certainly, and in my response to Mr Allen, I agreed that, ultimately, the people who will take the walls down are those living in the areas affected, but we need to provide them with support so that they feel supported to bring them down and do not have that fear. It is such an intractable issue, particularly in some areas. That is why I am keen, along with other Departments, to really engage within communities and with the various agencies, the community and voluntary groups and the people they represent. I put this challenge to the rest of the House: you have a responsibility as community and political representatives to play your part in trying to solve this; it is not my job alone.”
“Regrettably, I do not have that figure to hand, but I will say that this forms part of the wider work we are doing on ending paramilitary action. You referred to the very difficult challenge of trying to move this work forward. I see it; I have spoken to communities in these areas, and I know there is a sense of fear amongst them. It is about how we work through that. I am of the mind, though, that we have to speak to these individuals — they have to be part of the process — and, certainly, I am keen to do that as part of the wider work to tackle paramilitarism and meet the peace wall target for 2023.”
“First and foremost, however, it is about the communities living around these walls. To answer your question more specifically: we are working together and are going to try to do what we can to work towards our 2023 target.”
“I thank Mr Allen for his main and supplementary questions. We are working together to establish a solution to this problem. Ultimately, it will not be the Executive that will bring down peace walls; it will be the communities themselves. I think that it is important that they are part of the conversations in doing so. There are a lot of issues around the peace walls. Some people look at them almost as a safety blanket or a comfort, but I am keen to get out onto the ground and work with the various agencies, and I ask my Department officials to do that also. As I alluded, the Northern Ireland Housing Executive has an interest, and local PCSPs also have an input.”
“They are multifaceted, and that is why we have established a programme board, comprising relevant Departments and agencies, which is responsible for providing advice at a strategic level with particular focus on four key areas: social, community, physical, and economic regeneration.”
“<BR /> <BR />The reduction in the number of structures has been possible only through effective partnership working between Departments, statutory agencies, the voluntary and community sector, and communities themselves. I must, however, note the difficulty in establishing effective partnership working whilst working within the current annual Budget cycles. I recognise that, in many respects, current financial planning cycles are outside our control; nevertheless, I echo the views of our key delivery partners that a long-term funding model is needed for good planning and effective delivery. <BR /> <BR />I fully recognise the challenges that remain around the removal of peace walls.”
“My Department leads on the delivery of the Executive commitment contained in the Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC) strategy in respect of the removal of peace walls by 2023 and is seeking to bring about the conditions that can enable people to support their removal. I remind Executive colleagues of the importance of supporting delivery through the work of their Departments. <BR /> <BR />At the outset of this work, dating back to the last Programme for Government commitment, my Department was responsible for 59 structures situated in Belfast, Portadown, Lurgan and Londonderry. To date, nine structures have been removed completely, along with parts of four others. Within the T:BUC interface programme, we also incorporate structures belonging to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am quite keen to look at how we can modernise the Prison Service so that we can look at the needs of prison officers. Thankfully, we have more women coming to work in the Prison Service. We will have to look at their needs and those of their families. We also need to look at how we can better support them, perhaps in the shift patterns. We are looking at a new modernisation programme. I am reluctant to state figures; I think that that is what the Member is trying to get at. I think that it needs to be a wider review of how we can better support prison officers.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I do not shy away from the fact that it was a damning report, and certainly there were a number of recommendations that, as an organisation, the Northern Ireland Prison Service, along with the South Eastern Trust, will be looking at. Those recommendations were put forward for both organisations working together. I have had a conversation about it, and I think that we need to look at staff training. This was an exceptional mental health case. To be honest, our officers were not equipped to deal with that exceptional case. We need to look at how we can better equip officers to deal with those sorts of cases. Severe lessons have been learned from that, and I will ensure that we do.”
“However, I cannot do this alone. It is something that I am keen to work on with the Health Minister in the Executive. We have already had discussions around how we can tackle mental health issues, particularly within prisons, and also to support staff.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. By all means, yes. Mental health issues, right across all public services, are something we need to give focus to. There is a legacy with the fact that we are a post-conflict society. A lot of people who may have been either directly or indirectly affected by the trauma of the Troubles, are now realising that in their retirement years when they have more time to think because they do not have the distractions of a job. <BR /> <BR />Coming back to my area of interest, yes, by all means, we should consider prison officers and prisoners. It has been said to me that a quarter of my prisoners have mental health issues. That is something that we need to look at. Do we need to look at the prison estate? Is it fit for purpose? How are we interacting with prisoners on a day-to-day basis?”
“I thank the Member for his question. I do recognise that there are challenges within our Prison Service, some of which you have alluded to. I am keen to look at those challenges and see, first and foremost, how we can better support our prison officers. Working within a prison is a challenging environment — it really is like no other. I am certainly keen to look at how we can better support prison officers, and that might include some of his suggestions. When we get the new director-general in post we will look forward to having those discussions.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. The fact that we are putting rehabilitation at the focus of our training for new custody officers and senior officers should ensure that there is a real sense of engagement in order to rehabilitate. I have made a number of visits around our prison establishment and estate, and I do not see that sense of disengagement amongst prison staff and prisoners. However, I take the point. If you believe it to be an issue for the people that you represent, I am quite happy to raise it with the new director-general when he or she is in post.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am committed to having in place training arrangements for new and existing prison staff which empower and enable them to work positively with prisoners to assist in their rehabilitation, and thus contribute to making Northern Ireland safer.”
“A new training programme has been developed for these staff which places rehabilitation at the centre of everything they do, and that will be delivered in November. This will equip these new managers with a rehabilitative approach and knowledge of the skills required both of them and their staff. For staff and prisoner development units, which deliver rehabilitation on a daily basis, a range of training such as risk assessment, desistance and interventions is provided to equip staff with the necessary skills to assist prisoner rehabilitation. Delivery of this training is in partnership with Probation Service, the public protection unit, the PSNI and other key agencies.”
“A wide-ranging training programme has been put in place for all newly appointed custody prison officers. This nine-week programme has been developed with rehabilitation as its focus, in line with my priorities as Minister, equipping new staff with the necessary knowledge to assist those in custody to positively change. During the training, staff are taught how to challenge appropriately, signpost to services and assist those committed into our care. They are taught how to engage with each individual prisoner, in terms of their risks, needs and strengths. Within one year, staff successfully completing the training requirements will receive a certificate of competence. <BR /> <BR />In August this year the Prison Service promoted 43 new senior officers across the three establishments.”
“I thank the Member for his question. We discussed the forensic arrangement around information sharing and best practice. Those specific issues were not discussed, but I will keep it in mind for potential further meetings.”
“Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I am quite happy to say to the Member that, as Justice Minister, I consider all things. I may not make statements as frequently as the Member does for the sake of posturing, but I consider everything. It would be irresponsible of me not to do so.”
“I thank the Member for his questions. When I get five years into this job, I may be better equipped to answer some of the questions that he suggested that he was able to answer as Minister. <BR /> <BR />We are quite confident that we will be able to maintain the European arrest warrant. These arrangements, as the Member will know, were put in place not necessarily with any consideration of leaving the EU but for the sake of pragmatic working across the jurisdictions. That will not be a threat. When we discussed the European arrest warrant at our most recent meeting, we were confident that we could secure it moving forward.”
“We will need to focus on rural crime. Members who represent such areas will be familiar with rural crime, which is almost heightened because of their proximity to the border and how that affects things. <BR /> <BR />My first meeting with Frances Fitzgerald was an opportunity to strengthen that relationship and understand the day-to-day problems that we are facing on the entire island, whether in Northern Ireland or in Ireland. That relationship is important so that we can all put our best foot forward.”
“I can absolutely confirm that I do not feel constrained in issues surrounding NAMA. I have a body of work which I am quite keen to get on with. NAMA was not covered in discussions at my recent meeting with Frances Fitzgerald, but, as the Member's party colleague suggested, it is something that we can look at. There are a lot of impending issues that I feel I need to prioritise. Certainly, the impact of Brexit will be a big consideration in cross-border working. There is an opportunity, as part of our continued working relationship with colleagues in the South, to strengthen our approach to the challenges of Brexit.”