Claire Sugden
East Londonderry · Independent · Northern Ireland
“That is, gosh, almost 35 years ago, yet we are still having the conversation in 2026. If I were to speak to that eight-year-old girl, I would tell her, "When you are 40, Claire, this will not even be a consideration for you". Sadly, however, it still is. It is deeply disappointing that, when we had an opportunity, it was not taken.”
“Indeed, I tabled an amendment to that Bill to achieve the desired outcome, but, sadly, the opportunity was not taken. One of the strengths of the Assembly is that Committees can identify where Executive legislation has fallen short and produce their own practical, targeted solutions.”
“Frankly, we should be listening. Sometimes, we talk about equality in broad terms, but the Bill reminds us that equality is often about practical things. It is about removing unnecessary barriers from everyday life and ensuring that opportunities and choices do not depend on arbitrary differences between schools.”
“That is ridiculous. The point that we should all pay attention to is that of girls feeling less exposed. We should focus on that even if there were no other reasons to pass the legislation. Girls simply want to get on with their school day without having to think about something that most boys take for granted.”
“That meeting was a reminder that issues that can appear small to adults — there have been adults who have asked why the Assembly is legislating on this — can be issues on which we need to legislate. When people do not behave appropriately, we as a legislature have a responsibility to legislate.”
“Around one in seven couples in Northern Ireland experiences fertility problems, yet Northern Ireland continues to offer one of the most limited publicly funded fertility services anywhere in the United Kingdom. Couples face lengthy waits, restricted eligibility criteria and fewer publicly funded IVF opportunities than elsewhere.”
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“Our role is to ensure that we provide better services for the people of Northern Ireland. That did not happen here, and it failed at so many points.”
“Moving forward, I would really like to see the recommendations in 'New Decade, New Approach' implemented to the point at which one of the governing parties might decide to go into opposition, to make governance in here better and so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past. <BR /> <BR />What I find disappointing about the RHI report is that the recommendations are what, I would have taken for granted, we should be doing already.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. That is indeed disappointing. <BR /> <BR />I will make the point that I have made in the past, which is that Ministers should not fear opposition or challenge. If the policy is bad and cannot stand up to challenge, it is bad policy, and the people of Northern Ireland suffer. The Assembly suffers from the lack of an Opposition. If anything, the RHI report and the need for good governance moving forward demonstrate that that is what we need as an Assembly. <BR /> <BR />A Member talked earlier about the fact that, if your friends are in the same camp as you, they will not make accountable decisions. If you are in a government party, you will not legitimately hold that Government to account.”
“The legacy of the deep-seated Troubles in Northern Ireland has led to a circumstance in which we are not good at governance. We are too distracted by inter-party political fighting. The politics gets in the way of the policy. It is disappointing that, given the three years that have passed and the water under the bridge, the Assembly has again sought to move forward without good governance. I will reiterate and will not stop reiterating that the lack of an Opposition in the Assembly makes for poor governance. Ms Armstrong —.”
“It was a great privilege for me to be in that position and to have an opportunity to do wonderful things for the people of Northern Ireland, and that is what I sought to do. With great power comes great responsibility, to paraphrase my maiden speech in the Assembly in 2014, and it was my job as a responsible Minister to ensure that the mistakes of the Department were looked at and sought out and that the Department was held to account for them. I will go as far as to say that I would not have accepted the role of Minister if my spad had had more power than I; indeed, the Ministers who did have to share much of the blame and cannot blame others if they felt that they were under the thumb of special advisers. <BR /> <BR />We also have to look at the reform of the Civil Service.”
“I take no comfort from knowing that the outcome of the report was found to be incompetence rather than corruption; indeed, the weeds of corruption are more easily pulled than the deep-rooted incompetence and systemic failures that have the opportunity to unsettle the institutions above it. <BR /> <BR />What were the last three years for? I cannot begin to tell you what the last three years were for. They served no purpose, and they certainly did not serve the people of Northern Ireland. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say, "Political expediency", and those who tried to do that even failed in their endeavours. <BR /> <BR />I want to talk about some of the elements that came up in the RHI report. A key word for me is "responsibility". I was a Minister for all of nine months.”
“I welcome the fact that the Minister is to make a statement on a relief package. Can we expect rates relief or rates delay?”
“Minister, I anticipate significant cash flow issues over coming months, particularly for businesses in the service and retail industries. Will the Minister support a suspension of non-domestic rates for businesses of a certain size and, perhaps, use the money ring-fenced as a response to COVID-19 to try to get businesses over the worst effects of this virus?”
“Will the Minister detail the rationale of the anticipated up to 16-week closure suggested by the First Minister at the North/South Ministerial Council at the weekend? How will that impact on students studying for qualifications? Will they, indeed, be able to conclude those qualifications?”
“Will the Member acknowledge that the RHI scheme was always intended to make money for farmers to help them to float their business, given that agriculture is one of the biggest industries in Northern Ireland, and that the consequences of farmers potentially losing their livelihood could have wider consequences for all of the Northern Ireland economy? Simply to remove the RHI scheme without putting in any replacement scheme could have devastating consequences for not only farmers but the whole economy.”
“Schools provide a fantastic service, but are they adding to their growing financial and other burdens, and will the Minister be able and willing to support those? <BR /> <BR />While the Minister of Education is responding, I have no doubt that the Minister for the Economy could also respond today on what it means for employers and businesses. I have no doubt that businesses will support the changes, if they are supported too. <BR /> <BR />I very much welcome the motion; indeed, I welcome the amendment, because it adds value to a good motion. We should all be coming from a position where we provide access to all people from all backgrounds in Northern Ireland. However, this requires more thinking, and it needs to go further than the political agreement when it gets to the Programme for Government.”
“My parents are grandparents of seven children, and I know that they love taking care of their grandchildren, as it keeps them young, apparently — my father is 70 tomorrow — but I worry about the physical, emotional and financial burden that we are passing on to their generation. I do not think that parents have a choice under the current system, and it needs a radical change, more like what exists in other parts of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the Minister of Education responding, and I am keen to hear his thoughts regarding childcare not just through early years education but through breakfast clubs and after-school clubs for children of school age after the age of four.”
“Let us not forget that 'New Decade, New Approach' is not a Programme for Government; it is a political agreement. In order to right the wrongs of the past three years, we need something to work from, but it is not forthcoming. When the Minister tables the commitment in the Programme for Government — I hope that he does so — I ask that he considers extending what was in the agreement. <BR /> <BR />I raise those concerns because I see how high childcare costs affect families. In 2020, parents still choose between their children and having a job, choosing between their family and a quality of life. If fortunate, there are grandparents or other family members who are able to support childcare.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, but he is part of that Government all the same. <BR /> <BR />The commitment in NDNA does not change that because it still limits provision to three- to four-year-olds. We have an opportunity to develop a new childcare strategy that considers practice across the UK and Ireland and then develops a new policy that is right for Northern Ireland and improves on experiences elsewhere. That commitment and the motion very much feel like a copy and paste, and, if that is the case, we will not see the tangible improvements that many Members have outlined. <BR /> <BR />I really hope that a Programme for Government is coming forward, because, given that we are three months into a two-and-a-half-year working mandate, it is unacceptable that we have not yet seen a programme for delivery.”
“That age group is where significant disparity between here and other regions of the UK exist.”
“I had hoped, when the Government parties subsequently tabled a motion on childcare, that they would have expanded on that commitment. It is limited in that it focuses on the particular age group of three- and four-year-olds. Children under three years old also need to be considered.”
“I support the motion generally, which has enabled a debate to take place on childcare provision and the need for the Northern Ireland Executive to develop and implement a childcare strategy. I thank the Members who tabled the motion. <BR /> <BR />Many who have spoken before me outlined the benefits of developing and implementing a childcare strategy. In a nutshell, we work, we spend and we improve the economy. Childcare is also important for children's development. The motion broadly reflects the five-party Government's agreed commitment in the 'New Decade, New Approach' document:”
“— not least the reasons that I have outlined. Domestic abuse in itself is a trauma that can lead to mental health and addiction issues that can then lead to criminal behaviour. We need to break that cycle. We can do that through domestic abuse legislation, but we need to look more widely at other traumas.”
“<BR /> <BR />A considerable number of domestic abuse incidents are reported to the police each year. The number that go unreported does not bear thinking about. Despite the shortcomings of the Assembly in not sitting for three years, I genuinely do not understand why it took so long to address the issue. It is to society's shame and to the Assembly's shame that we have not legislated before now. Our shame is that a wooden table has more justice in Northern Ireland than a victim of domestic abuse. <BR /> <BR />I fully support and commend the Minister for agreeing to legislate as soon as possible. I understand that it can happen here as quickly as in Westminster and that we can tailor it to meet our specific needs. <BR /> <BR />I sought to address domestic abuse for a number of reasons —”
“There is no point in emptying the sink if you do not turn off the tap. The correlation between the rise of crime and alcohol- and drug-related offences is entirely valid. Again, we can seek to address alcohol- and drug abuse-related crime, or we can try to understand why people abuse alcohol and drugs, which leads them on a path of criminal behaviour. I suspect that much is to do with poor mental health and early childhood trauma, among other reasons. I really appreciate a number of Members acknowledging the impact of trauma and sharing their own stories. At this point, I want to stress that I am not providing excuses for criminal behaviour. I am providing reasons with the hope that, if we address those reasons, we prevent crime and, most importantly, we prevent the creation of victims.”
“If Government, whose job it is to serve and protect their people by providing a minimum public service, as outlined above, do not do that, those people will turn to crime and criminality dressed up as paramilitarism. It is the cost of failure, and all society will suffer. As well as calling on the Minister of Justice, I call on every Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive to do their job, to work together, to provide public services and to improve what we have so that violent crime, paramilitary activity or any other type of criminal behaviour is not the preferred option. <BR /> <BR />It is inevitable that we will address symptoms of a broken society and poor public services and that people will commit crimes, but maybe we should take a walk upstream and address where those problems began.”
“When a perpetrator commits a crime, it is too late. It is too late for victims and their families, too late for wider society, too late for the perpetrator and too late for public finances. What point is not too late? Is it adulthood, early adulthood, adolescence, childhood, early years or even in the womb? The point I am trying to make is that no one is born bad and, definitely, no one is born a perpetrator of violent crime or, indeed, any other type of crime. They are a product of their environment, circumstances and opportunities. Not having a roof over their head, a hot meal on the table or access to quality education will affect the people they become.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not entirely content with the wording of the original motion, but I support the general principle that identifies the relationship between violent crime and alcohol and drugs and the harm that that causes in communities. I would prefer that we called on all Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive to address the issue rather than just the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Health, which is why I support amendment No 2. <BR /> <BR />Please, Minister, bear with me when I say that the Department of Justice could be described as the "Department of Failure". When all other Departments have failed in providing high-quality public services, protecting the most vulnerable in society and offering genuine opportunities for children and young people for a better life, the Department of Justice picks up the pieces.”
“I support the motion. Although they are mutually exclusive, I support both amendments, as each raises important considerations about how we genuinely and effectively tackle violent crime in Northern Ireland. I will, however, prioritise my support for amendment No 2. That amendment encourages a Northern Ireland Executive approach to tackle the issues by addressing the root cause of the problem rather than the symptoms. I will, however, acknowledge amendment No 1, tabled by Mr Storey and Mr Givan. If amendment No 1 were a stand-alone motion, it would have my full support, but, unfortunately, it competes with amendment No 2, which I see as the most realistic and long-term route for tackling violent crime, including the various types noted in that amendment.”
“If we get to the point where something like that is necessary, has the Minister had any thoughts on how we can ensure that we have the appropriate amount of provision?”
“My apologies to the Minister and the Chair for missing the beginning of your statement. Given that this is a viral strain, I am not sure whether a vaccination is able to be developed. I am sure that the scientists in the House will be able to confirm that for me. I recall that, when there was swine flu, an antiviral medication was made available to front-line staff, the most vulnerable and those with autoimmune diseases. Again, I am not sure whether what was made available then is appropriate now. Have there been any thoughts about that? I understand that, at the time, a significant amount of money was required for that, and there were shortages, which is why they had to prioritise it.”
“His candid conversations, sharp wit and incredible stories made him the best company. He talked about football and his family. He dearly loved his family, and I know that they will sorely feel his loss today and in the days ahead. Although incredibly humble, he was quietly proud of all his achievements. I know that some here have visited his home outside Castlerock. It is a sight to behold: a private collection of global football history. <BR /> <BR />Harry was a Coleraine man. Being born in Tobermore and raised on the Bann side gave him his most distinctive and formidable quality. Despite his success, fame and famous friends, he was one of us. To us, Harry Gregg OBE is a legend in every sense of the word, but, to him, he was Harry Gregg of 34 Windsor Avenue, Coleraine: a husband, father and grandfather, and now a "Red Devil" in heaven.”
“Harry did not want to talk too often about the tragedy, but it was clear that he carried the trauma for all of his days. He was the "hero of Munich", but that name gave him no comfort. He is an inspirational hero. Harry's legend is without doubt, and, long before he passed, when others sought to immortalise him in a sculpture, he spoke with unfiltered honesty against the idea; rather, he advocated for a foundation that aimed to inspire young people so that they might follow their dreams, as Harry was able to follow his. The Harry Gregg Foundation, which to this day attracts hundreds of children and young people each week, is his legacy. <BR /> <BR />Harry was full of character. His height and lean, straight frame and, usually, hat gave him such presence. I met him on a number of occasions.”
“He put aside concern for his own life to save others. People live today because of Harry Gregg.”
“Harry was our hero in so many ways. He was a hero on the football pitch — unrivalled. When he had the ball, it was safe in his hands, much to the dismay of the opposing side. In 1957, he was the world's most expensive goalkeeper; a year later, he was voted the best. He made 25 appearances for Northern Ireland. He dominated the nets both in stature and talent. He was a reluctant hero. Following the 1958 Munich air disaster — over 60 years ago — he bravely rescued teammates and passengers, including a young baby.”
“Today, we mourn the passing of Harry Gregg OBE, who passed away peacefully yesterday surrounded by family. I offer my sincere condolences to his wife, Carolyn, his family, friends and fans across the world. <BR /> <BR />Leading tributes today, Sir Alex Ferguson described him as:”
“Last week, a young constituent told me that, when she tried to access the CAMHS crisis team, she was told that it provided services only to those aged up to 17 and nor could she access the adult crisis services. If it is the case that there is a gap of one year and we are not addressing 17- and 18-year-olds in crisis, that gives me great cause for concern. I am keen to hear your thoughts, Minister.”
“To determine the net annual value of business properties, Land and Property Service is required to gather data from the various businesses. Is the Minister content with the recent gathering of data that will determine the most up-to-date valuation list? If that could be improved, it might reduce the number of appeals that businesses are expected to bring forward.”
“I wish to pick up on a point that Mr Nesbitt and Mr Frew made about financial transactions capital. My understanding — please correct me if I am wrong — is that FTC is a loan from Treasury to private-sector entities via a sponsoring Department and that there is an opportunity for that sponsoring Department to add an interest rate, which it can use as resource. It is disappointing that we are sending back £150 million and, indeed, interest, which, perhaps, is much-needed revenue for the Executive. I am interested to hear the Minister's thoughts about that as a potential revenue-raising mechanism and, indeed, whether it is considerable enough to make a dent in our finances.”
“<BR /> <BR />I wish to express my sincere condolences to Mr Mallon's family, friends and all those who knew him, in particular, members of the Social, Democratic and Labour Party. Thank you.”
“I have never heard that before, and in saying so, he did not dismiss my belief, he did not disparage an important part of who I am, nor did he wrongly characterise me because I did not agree with him. Rather, he wanted to know me, and I appreciate that. Indeed, I believe it is the fundamental principle of the Good Friday Agreement: not to be neutral if you are not, not to deny who we are, but rather embrace ourselves and each other, learn, live and love together. <BR /> <BR />I can only speak for myself, but certainly in this unionist heart and this unionist mind, are people. I expect from much of what has been said about Séamus Mallon that is what we would find in his heart and mind too: different but the same.”
“Séamus Mallon would not have claimed to be impartial. He extolled his beliefs clearly and honestly. He was an Irish republican in the truest form. Mr Mallon, however, had capacity and heart to recognise that others did not necessarily share his beliefs, and rather than seek to undermine their views from the outset, he sought to understand and respect. He was empathetic and looked for humanity: the greatest, yet rarest, qualities of political leadership. <BR /> <BR />I did not know Mr Mallon, but recently I was taken by words that he said regarding unionism:”
“Regrettably, the UK Government rejected the amendment, arguing that Government assurances over access to the UK market were sufficient. The momentous deal just over a week ago and the promises of additional funding demonstrate to all of us that assurances from Mr Johnson's Government cannot be taken for granted. <BR /> <BR />Brexit is not over on 1 February 2020. It is the beginning of our biggest political test. Regardless of your view — "In" or "Out" — undoubtedly, dismantling 30 years of political, social and economic structures will be our biggest challenge.”
“Certainly not the Tory Party, who have no representation here other than the Secretary of State, who tells us to get on with it, even to the detriment of the most vulnerable in our society. <BR /> <BR />I commend the DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance Party for taking a practical approach in the House of Commons to addressing the inevitable challenges that the withdrawal agreement will bring to Northern Ireland. They sought to provide much-needed clarity regarding unfettered access for Northern Ireland to the UK market. Much credit goes to the business community for their input. They have been trying to cajole politicians for three years, knowing the potential impact that Brexit will have on our economy. Stakeholder contribution is valuable regarding that and, indeed, every other issue that we consider.”
“<BR /> <BR />I support the motion, and I see value in the House coming together on an issue that will affect all the people of Northern Ireland. I am, however, unsure of the practical purpose, other than to send a hollow message back to the UK Government. It feels too little and far too late. We lost our opportunity to participate in the legislative consent process. We cannot formally reject the legislative consent motion; we are simply putting on record what, I expect, the UK Government already know. I expect that the Prime Minister and his Cabinet will treat our motion similarly to how he treated Scotland when they rejected it. I expect that they will deem it unnecessary, as they did the cross-party amendment on 8 January. Unnecessary for whom?”
“We have two years to convince the people of Northern Ireland of our value, and I fear that, in a Brexit context, that will be incredibly difficult. <BR /> <BR />The significant difference between now and 2016 is time and opportunity to do anything. While I appreciate the Executive Office creating an opportunity to enable Members to share their concerns regarding the withdrawal agreement Bill, I agree with Mr Allister's motion that we should have been able to exercise our scrutiny powers. It is disappointing that the majority of the House did not agree, and I reiterate comments that I made on restoration day: it is regrettable that no party chose official Opposition, but do not limit the integrity of this legislature further by removing our accountability.”
“I recall comments from an Executive meeting more than three and a half years ago that, despite the outcome of the referendum, despite the differences in the room, we would put our best foot forward and lead in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland. Sadly, we did not, and only those in the room heard those comments. <BR /> <BR />The words of the First Minister this afternoon sound very similar to those spoken in 2016, and I sincerely hope that her words, along with the endorsement of the deputy First Minister and the wider Executive, are genuine. I have no doubt that each is acutely aware of the responsibility that rests on their shoulders and the scrutiny they face not just from MLAs but from those outside the Building.”
“I appreciate all the commitments that he has made to date, but how realistic is it that we will be able to deliver the promises in the new deal and also those in the written commitment that he has put before this House today?”
“<BR /> <BR />The figure that very much jumps out at me is the £67 million that has not yet been found, and I expect that it will be, at minimum, another £67 million for the year 2021-22 that you, indeed, would have responsibility for. Altogether, we are looking for £134 million that has not been found anywhere. Indeed, I hope the gentleman down the hill at Stormont House hears those figures, because it is important that he does. In addition to that are all the other pressures in relation to resolving waiting lists, which, indeed, was another commitment that was in the New Decade, New Approach deal. Is the Minister confident that we will be able to secure those moneys?”
“I congratulate the Minister, both personally and professionally. I sincerely wish you well. You have taken on the most difficult brief, and the Ulster Unionist Party has to be commended for doing so, as the two parties before them seemed to avoid that brief like the plague. <BR /> <BR />Thank you for your statement. I appreciate the rapid response in taking the decisions that you have taken. It is very clear that every Member agrees with the actions that you are going to take to try to resolve this pay dispute and, indeed, the issues with safer staffing. I also appreciate the commitment for 2021. It is really important that the workers get that because we are very quickly coming to the end of this financial year.”
“I wish to pick up a point from the earlier questions from Ms Bradshaw and Mr Beggs on the Minister's consideration of split-site schools when he is considering capital investments. I appreciate that there are two different funding pots, but I think that we need to look at that strategically if we are to get somewhere with that issue.”
“Like others, I congratulate the Minister. His appointment is probably the most critical in providing continuity in what will be a worryingly short mandate with the time that we have left. <BR /> <BR />Generally, I am quite frustrated at how government spends money. More often than not, it feels like we are firefighting by trying to deal with issues as they are presented. We are quite reactionary, when, really, we should be trying to focus on investing to save so that we can try and save some money. Indeed, if the Prime Minister is not forthcoming with the money that we had hoped for, that is something that all Ministers will have to have a keen focus on. <BR /> <BR />Is the Minister considering the haemorrhaging of resources by many schools?”
“<BR /> <BR />Today is a fantastic day for Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland are ecstatic that we are here on their behalf. It is important to note that each one of us, in the mandates that we all have, represent the people of Northern Ireland, whom we disrespect when we disrespect one another in the Chamber. I cannot imagine that the problems that have existed over the past three years will be fixed overnight, and it is important that, in the Chamber, we set an expectation that we will not fix them overnight. If anything, we need a root-and-branch review of every Department in Northern Ireland, but it is good that the wheels are now moving, and I look forward to working with each and every one of you.”
“Do not fear opposition: opposition improves legislation. If policy cannot uphold the challenge that other Members provide, it is not good policy, and no one benefits from that. I do, however, appreciate that the stability of Northern Ireland requires that we have a five-party Executive, and I, as an independent Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly, will support that Executive in the work that we do because, critically, moving forward, that work needs to happen. <BR /> <BR />We have had nearly 20 years of what I would describe as political party nonsense. Now, moving forward, the focus of the Assembly needs to be on good governance that looks at the needs of the people outside the Chamber. Maybe, for once, we will put those people first instead of the political parties that sit in this Chamber.”
“I congratulate you and your deputies on your appointments. I am, however, somewhat disappointed that there are no women in the Speaker's Office, but we make up for that in the Executive Office, and I offer my sincere congratulations to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. I worked with both women in government — gosh, over three years ago now — and I can put on record that they are incredibly capable and can do wonderful things for Northern Ireland if there is will. I hope today is a demonstration of that will, because we need to take Northern Ireland forward. It has got to the point now at which we cannot continue in this vein. <BR /> <BR />I also congratulate the Ministers who will be appointed this afternoon. I believe that it is a wasted opportunity that none has decided to go into opposition.”