Claire Sugden
East Londonderry · Independent · Northern Ireland
“That is, gosh, almost 35 years ago, yet we are still having the conversation in 2026. If I were to speak to that eight-year-old girl, I would tell her, "When you are 40, Claire, this will not even be a consideration for you". Sadly, however, it still is. It is deeply disappointing that, when we had an opportunity, it was not taken.”
“Indeed, I tabled an amendment to that Bill to achieve the desired outcome, but, sadly, the opportunity was not taken. One of the strengths of the Assembly is that Committees can identify where Executive legislation has fallen short and produce their own practical, targeted solutions.”
“Frankly, we should be listening. Sometimes, we talk about equality in broad terms, but the Bill reminds us that equality is often about practical things. It is about removing unnecessary barriers from everyday life and ensuring that opportunities and choices do not depend on arbitrary differences between schools.”
“That is ridiculous. The point that we should all pay attention to is that of girls feeling less exposed. We should focus on that even if there were no other reasons to pass the legislation. Girls simply want to get on with their school day without having to think about something that most boys take for granted.”
“That meeting was a reminder that issues that can appear small to adults — there have been adults who have asked why the Assembly is legislating on this — can be issues on which we need to legislate. When people do not behave appropriately, we as a legislature have a responsibility to legislate.”
“Around one in seven couples in Northern Ireland experiences fertility problems, yet Northern Ireland continues to offer one of the most limited publicly funded fertility services anywhere in the United Kingdom. Couples face lengthy waits, restricted eligibility criteria and fewer publicly funded IVF opportunities than elsewhere.”
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Every one of 2,208 lines we hold for Claire Sugden, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 32 of 45.
“I am grateful for the opportunity to come before the Assembly to make a statement on the proposals for the rationalisation of the court estate. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly will be aware that, following a public consultation exercise, my predecessor announced on 8 February 2016 his decision to close courthouses at Armagh, Ballymena, Lisburn and Strabane and reaffirmed his earlier decision to close the court buildings in Limavady and Magherafelt. <BR /> <BR />As Members know, in early May 2016, judicial review proceedings were commenced, challenging the decision to close Ballymena, Lisburn and Strabane courthouses. In view of that, when appointed as Justice Minister, I indicated that none of the six courthouses would close pending the outcome of the judicial review proceedings.”
“As I mentioned earlier, we often talk about mental health. When I talk about mental health, I look not only at the specific issues of mental health but at mental disorders, including autism and ADHD, which can sometimes be seen as behavioural disorders. They are a contributory factor to people offending, their difficulties in prison and why they could reoffend when they come out of prison. We need a more holistic approach. It is a good sign that we now have this focus because, hopefully, an upstream approach will ensure that it does not get downstream.”
“This will not be an end for an awful lot of people who find themselves in the criminal justice system. I am quite pleased that the Minister of Health has made it one of her priorities and, moving forward, it will be one of mine.”
“It is not just about the healthcare that they receive; it is about the wider support that they also receive, whether that is the social care aspect or the environment in which they are living. It has to be a before, during and after approach. <BR /> <BR />People are coming into our prison system with mental health issues and, whilst they are there, those are often being manifested because being in prison is not an easy environment. I am sure that we can all appreciate that. Coming out of prison is probably the critical stage, because we are almost putting prisoners back to square one. If we are sending them out into the community again and the support systems are not there, we are pulling the rug from under them that we have worked hard to put in place. There needs to be a threefold approach, with a beginning, a middle and an end.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Mental health in prisons, for prisoners and prison officers, has been given a renewed focus since I became Justice Minister and the new Minister of Health took up her post. As I have reiterated many times, I am pleased with that approach because a lot of the issues that we find in our prisons are primarily down to mental health, including addiction problems and learning disabilities, as we discussed earlier. <BR /> <BR />I was pleased to meet a group that I have mentioned a number of times already: a forensic mental health team that looks at the specific circumstances of people who find themselves in custody. Those arrangements are particularly for people with severe mental health issues. There could, perhaps, be an opportunity to extend that to everyone in prison.”
“Yes, that is entirely the right approach. Too often, we associate education with academia, but not everyone is academically minded, and that is perfectly fine. We need to look at vocational opportunities. Some of those initiatives are already happening in the custody arrangements, and, often, they are the ones that are deemed to be quite successful. We have to look at how we can strengthen that to provide young people with skills so that when they come out of custody they have better opportunities. To me, that is the best outcome for all.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have found that people who have opportunities for employment are less likely to reoffend, so that is something that we need to focus on. Indeed, there is a programme at Hydebank Wood that has focused on education, but that is something that we need to strengthen. We need to look at that in Woodlands as well.”
“I take the Member's point about young people's education while they are in custody. Education, particularly for young people, is critical in rehabilitating that type of behaviour. I have issues with the fact that we take children and young people into the criminal justice system. We need to provide support so that when they come back into the community they do not fall behind. If that is the case, it points to a wider societal problem. Along with the Education Minister and the Health Minister, we are looking at children and young people in custody and at the appropriate measures that are in place to better support them. Education needs to be central to all those things, because it will reduce the likelihood of reoffending and give them better opportunities for employment when they come out.”
“I am happy to do that. Alongside agencies like the Probation Board, we can look at how we can better prepare prisoners for when they come back into the community. The Probation Board does a lot of fantastic work in that area. It looks at the special individual circumstances of each offender and the community that they will come out into. It is important that that is the focus of anyone who is in the Prison Service because, again, it is about having a safer community and limiting opportunities for reoffending. The Probation Board is successful in doing that, but it is limited and there is more work that needs to be done. That is something that I am keen to look at.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will appreciate that it is very difficult to rehabilitate prisoners in custody who are serving such short sentences. Indeed, the number of challenges around resources and putting effective plans into place to ensure rehabilitation are really quite large. It is something that we need to look at. We must ensure that, whilst people are in our custody, in a lot of cases for a short period of time, we can put programmes in place to ensure that rehabilitation. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, rehabilitation is for the safety of the community. Whatever the sentence, six months, six years or 60 years — it would not be for 60 years — prisoners will come back into the community and we need to ensure that they are being rehabilitated so that, ultimately, they will not reoffend.”
“Not that I am aware of, but I am happy to come back to the Member with a written answer in case that issue arose in other buildings.”
“I thank the Member for his question and I can indeed confirm that Foyleview was closed due to the discovery of asbestos in that prison. We were able to move people in that facility to other parts of the prison, so it has not had a hugely detrimental effect. However, this consolidates the view that we need to look forward to a new build at Magilligan. Indeed, that is something that I have always been committed to, but it will be subject to securing the appropriate funding.”
“I cannot comment on any aspect of the courts estate, pending the judicial review. When that has come to a conclusion, I am happy to have a conversation with the Member on the issue she raises.”
“No, certainly not; closure by stealth is not my intention at all. However, as the Member is aware, and as I reiterate to the House time and again, courthouse closures are subject to a judicial review which will be heard this week. I imagine that the outcome of that will be known some time later. Until I am aware of the outcome of that particular judicial review, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I congratulate Omagh for that initiative. The role of local government and the community and voluntary sector in finding solutions to the problems that we find in our local communities is very important. That is an apt way to tackle crime, whether it is antisocial behaviour or other forms of crime. I am quite happy to speak to anyone; it is important that we listen to a lot of the stakeholders involved. I reiterate that people involved in the community and voluntary sector know their communities best, and it would be remiss of us to not take their views into account. So, I am happy to do so.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I value the role of all volunteers and people who come from the community and voluntary sector. I am a big advocate of the community and voluntary sector because those people are best placed in their communities to know what is best for the people they are working voluntarily with. I very much support the work of all volunteers. As a Government, we are not placed and do not have the exhaustive resources to provide a lot of services, so it is appropriate that we look towards the community and voluntary sector to see how we can better produce the public services that Northern Ireland expects of us.”
“Yes, I am quite happy to come back to the House on that.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I have not had conversations with the Chief Constable on that particular issue. However, further to her question today, I am quite happy to raise it as a matter of interest to the House.”
“Yes, I am quite happy to take that request forward and see what response we can get.”
“No, I cannot recall any such briefing. That could be down to my ignorance, but I will come back to the Member with a response as soon as I get it.”
“I am not quite sure why the Member is so focussed on the figures. The point he raises is a good one in that the attacks are continuing to happen. We need to look at the reasons why hate crime is happening and see how we can best address it.”
“No, indeed I am not embarrassed to tell you. The people who commit those crimes should certainly be embarrassed. They are something that I condemn. These types of attacks, whatever the intention behind them, are abhorrent. It is not that I am too embarrassed to tell you the figures; we cannot provide the figures due to the disproportionate cost of doing so.”
“<BR /> <BR />Offences committed through such attacks may be criminal damage or arson, of which there are a number prosecuted each year. For example, in 2015, there were 1,908 convictions, where at least one offence was that of criminal damage. While only a small percentage of those will relate to attacks on symbolic buildings, given the number of cases involved, a search of the records would incur a disproportionate cost.”
“In addition, policing and community safety partnerships (PCSPs), which are jointly funded by my Department and the Northern Ireland Policing Board, work at a local level to develop solutions to local issues and enhance community safety. <BR /> <BR />Information on prosecution and conviction data sets in my Department is sourced from the integrated court operation system (ICOS), which is the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service (NICTS) information management system. Within that system, information on the type of building that may have been attacked is held only in the detail of charges for which an individual is prosecuted at court and is not searchable in an automated way. Therefore, it is possible to identify prosecutions or convictions resulting from an attack on symbolic buildings only through a manual trawl of court records.”
“I will say up front that any attack on any symbolic building is unacceptable. I am aware that there have been a number of attacks on premises across Northern Ireland, some of which have been investigated as hate crimes by the PSNI. <BR /> <BR />At a strategic level, my Department is committed to tackling hate crime from the criminal justice perspective through the delivery of the Executive's community safety strategy, and it works with a range of statutory, voluntary and community organisations to take that work forward. <BR /> <BR />At an operational level, I understand that the PSNI has a control strategy dealing with attacks on symbolic buildings and that patrols pay attention to such buildings.”
“I thank the Member for his question. From any discussions that I have had, I can reiterate my confidence that we will progress on legacy inquests. It has always been a case for me of when that will be. I am hopeful that it will happen as soon as possible, but I am afraid that I cannot give you a time frame, because I am unsure, and discussions are ongoing on the issues. I do have confidence that we will move forward, however. Post the May election, we are in a very different political space and there is a keenness to try not only to address the challenges that we find in the Northern Ireland Executive but to deliver and get things done. The opportunity exists now that perhaps did not exist before, so I am confident that we will move forward on this.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is my preferred option that we address the HIU and the legacy inquests in parallel and move them forward together. When we talk about victims, let me say that I have met a number since becoming Minister, and not one of them is telling me that their pain or hurt is any greater than anyone else's. They just want answers. That seems to be the case right across the communities and with the people whom I have met in the past six months. From my perspective, we need to progress on this and on addressing our legacy inquests, which are progressing already, just at a very slow pace. We also need to get the HIU up and running as soon as we can.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I have said publicly on a number of occasions that I support the mechanism that the Lord Chief Justice has proposed to bring to a conclusion a number of legacy inquests, which will go ahead regardless of whether we find a solution to do it in a shorter period. As I have asked the House before, do we want to address this in five years, or do we want to address it in 25 years? Our approach to addressing legacy is ultimately about the victims and their families. We are time-bound by that. I am keen to ensure that we move forward on it as soon as possible so that we can move on and provide some answers to the victims of our past.”
“As always, I am happy to provide answers to the people of Northern Ireland. I will provide clarity to the Member who has raised the question: the draft legislation in relation to the historical inquiries unit is led by the UK Government. It is the most appropriate thing for me to deal with any questions in that way, because I do not speak for the Northern Ireland Office nor the UK Government. I speak for the Department of Justice. I will confirm that we have been meeting regularly on how we can progress the issue. I am very much of the mindset that we need to progress the issue. It was agreed in the Stormont House Agreement. It is the only show in town, and I believe that it is the best way of addressing our past.”
“The Stormont House Agreement was an agreement between the Northern Ireland Executive and the British and Irish Governments. Since coming into office, I have been in discussion with Executive colleagues and the United Kingdom Government to ensure delivery of the justice elements of that agreement. In particular, discussions have focused on the remaining policy issues that lie behind the development of the draft Bill to deliver the Stormont House Agreement. Members will recognise that, as with any policy development, Ministers require the space and time to develop thinking and establish policy proposals. Once the policy position is sufficiently advanced, I, along with the First Minister and deputy First Minister, will be in a position to discuss our agreed position.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I would not say that anything has been rejected because of budget cuts. There is a budget, and it is demand-led. If the cases that are brought forward satisfy the criteria for legal aid, they will get it. I would not suggest that anything has been rejected due to budget cuts.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Member, as a member of the Justice Committee, will be familiar with the challenges that I have faced on legal aid. As I have reiterated, it is a challenge and a significant amount of budget, but, as I have said to other Members, it is about access to justice and providing access to justice to the most vulnerable in our society. That is something that I am keen to move forward with.”
“The figure in itself is significant, but we should look at the fact that it is demand-led and we are satisfying access to justice in that respect.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As I outlined, we need almost to reframe the message of legal aid and the purpose of it. From my perspective, legal aid should be the resort of access to justice for the most vulnerable. That is the focus that my Department and I are putting on legal aid to ensure that those who require access to justice should indeed get it. However, I will balance the argument: some would say that this is access to justice; others would say that this is a significant bill to come out of my budget, which is correct. We have to try to ensure that we can meet that bill in our budget. We are quite confident that we can do that this year. Overall, we have to ensure that this is about access to justice.”
“I am working on the offence. I have given myself a very definite timetable for the domestic violence offence, and I am really confident that I will stick to it. On the question of how that will affect the legal aid budget, it is really a matter of considering access to justice in the provision of legal aid and ensuring that the most vulnerable get that access to justice. I imagine that it will be facilitated in a similar way to other cases.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am sure that the Member will appreciate that it would be inappropriate for me to comment on individual cases, but I take the point that there has been a lot of conversation about the cost of legal aid. Indeed, the bill is significant. I suppose that some could say that that might demonstrate that we are providing access to justice in all of these types of cases. We need to look at it in a wider context; indeed, the Access to Justice review part II enables us to do that, as will other reviews, such as the Gillen review that I mentioned, that we should also take into account. I am very aware of the public perception of legal aid, and I am working towards seeing how I can do something to ensure public confidence in it.”
“I am considering the recommendations in Access to Justice II and will bring forward an updated strategy for legal aid. I will also consider any relevant recommendations from the Gillen review to ensure that we take a strategic approach to reform. Legal aid is demand-led and exists to provide support for the most vulnerable in society to get access to justice. Last year, the budget provided for over 90,000 acts of assistance.”
“I thank the Member. I am committed to reducing expenditure on legal aid through a range of measures to tackle demand and the cost of individual cases. I am bringing forward proposals to introduce a standardised fee structure for legal representatives in family cases, I am conducting a review of the cost of expert witnesses, and I am making some adjustments to the types of cases that can be funded through legal aid. The proposals will build on changes that have already been implemented, including reduced fees in the criminal courts and measures to ensure that the appropriate level of representation is granted in civil and criminal courts. Administration costs are being addressed through a transformation programme in the Legal Services Agency, which includes a digitalisation programme.”
“I am not sure how that will look. I am keen to develop it and see whether there is a necessity there. We also have to bear in mind the point of sentencing and people coming into custody: it is about finding the balance between rehabilitation and, in a sense, people being held to account for their offences, which makes this quite a difficult issue. It would be remiss of us not to look at it, because we see the outworkings of the current system, and, frankly, I am not sure that it is good enough.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Conversations around children and young people in our criminal justice system are at a very early stage. I have, however, met the Health Minister to look at the issue because I believe that putting children and young people in the criminal justice system could be to their detriment and begin a spiral of destruction that does not help the individual or make for a safer community for wider society. It also causes a lot of other wider repercussions.”
“I believe that no one is born bad; people tend to be a product of their circumstances and upbringing. If we can tackle those issues upstream, perhaps we will not have people offending in the first place. If we can tackle them whilst they are in our custody, they will, hopefully, not reoffend when they are released.”
“When prisoners come into custody, their circumstances are assessed. If I am really honest, I am not quite sure what provision exists for autism and ADHD, which perhaps suggests that provision is not quite satisfactory. I am keen that we look at the issue. Again, mental health is not the only reason for leading people to offending in society, and learning disability, autism and ADHD should be considered as well. Indeed, I met the forensic mental health team from the Northern Trust, which I mentioned earlier. It looks at all these issues because it comes from a multi-agency approach. It is not just about the clinical care of mental health through prescribed drugs; it is about the therapy of mental health, the environment and the circumstances, so occupational therapy will be in there as well. <BR /> <BR />I entirely agree with the Member.”
“My approach to mental health, alongside the Health Minister, is that I am quite keen to begin with a preventative approach, perhaps even looking at whether we should send people with severe mental health issues to prison at all, looking at the support available when they are in custody and a post-custody approach to ensure that they do not reoffend, with the vicious circle beginning all over again. It helps no one: it does not help wider society, and it causes a lot of problems. From a pragmatic point of view, it wastes an awful lot of resources and money. I think that there is a responsibility on this Government to address the matter quite seriously.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Probation Board does fantastic work in preparing prisoners on their release. Indeed, mental health does not begin or end by coming into prison. The structure of prison can help to regulate some mental health problems — namely, through medication. However, it takes a wider approach than that, perhaps through other types of therapy. My difficulty is that, when prisoners are released into the community after serving their time in custody, they almost go back to square one because those support mechanisms are not necessarily in place, so their chances of reoffending increase.”
“I think that, together, whether it is Health, Justice, Communities or Education, we need an interdepartmental approach to mental health. Outside the Executive and the House, we also need to look at agencies and our communities to see how we can best tackle the matter. <BR /> <BR />I am quite heartened by the conversations that we are having on mental health because it is important, and it is too often forgotten about. Indeed, since the beginning of this term, there has been a focus on it. That can be only a good thing because there are significant mental health problems throughout society, not least in my prisons, and, if we were to address them, we could address significant wider societal problems.”
“I thank the Member for her question. No, I have not received any bids in that area, but the Member raises an important point. I have said in the House before that one of the biggest legacies of the past is mental health. The Troubles were a deep trauma for everyone involved, both directly and indirectly, and we need to focus on the fact that there will be out <BR />workings of that. <BR /> <BR />It is happening now, particularly when a lot of people are now in retirement and are starting to think about those issues. I have not had a bid in that area, but I am interested to see how this area of work develops, alongside the Health Minister. This is her area, but when it comes into the justice system it crosses over into my remit.”
“I recently met a forensic mental health team in the Northern Trust, and a lot of the work that it is doing is a good model for how we could move forward in this area. I look forward to seeing how we can explore that further.”
“I thank the Member for his comments and, indeed, his question. Entirely, there needs to be a multi-agency approach to tackling mental health, not just for those in custody but right at the beginning of the criminal justice process, and that begins with the police. <BR /> <BR />We also need to feed that through, perhaps in courts before a conviction has even taken place. However, if that results in a custodial sentence, how do we deal with prisoners whilst they are in our care and then afterwards? After all, prison sentences are not indefinite, and prisoners will eventually come out into society. <BR /> <BR />In the best interests of a safer community we need to ensure that we have rehabilitated not just prisoners' behaviour but their health as well. There has to be a multi-agency approach to tackling mental health issues in prisons.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Prison Service and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust, which is responsible for the delivery of healthcare in prisons, are committed to providing effective services to vulnerable people in custody. <BR /> <BR />The Minister of Health and I visited Hydebank Wood on 27 September to discuss health issues in prisons, particularly mental health. I will continue to work with Minister O'Neill to ensure that children, young people and adults in the criminal justice system are healthier, safer and less likely to be involved in offending behaviour.”
“The Northern Ireland Prison Service (NIPS) takes the duty of care for all individuals it holds in custody extremely seriously. Identifying and supporting prisoners with mental health issues during custody remains a priority for NIPS, and, since becoming Minister, I have instructed officials to ensure that focus on addressing prisoner and prison officer mental health remains at the forefront of their work. <BR /> <BR />The prison population stood at 1,499 on 16 October 2016, and 391 prisoners were recorded as having been diagnosed with a mental health issue on that date: 26% of the prisoner population. There is an obvious problem here, and it is something that we need to give full consideration to. In the overall prisoner population there were 1,107 sentenced prisoners, of whom 173 were recorded as having a mental illness.”