Paul Frew
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for that intervention. Nevertheless, there are concerns that I want to address. The Minister and the departmental officials will know that, even from the range of questions that I have asked. We need to make sure that we get the balance correct.”
“In the written and oral evidence received then, the Committee was advised of potential amendments that the Minister may table at Consideration Stage, including an amendment to remove the commissioner that is being considered in liaison with OLC.”
“That in itself causes some victims and witnesses bother, because they are in a system that they are not part of, which means that they do not get the support that they require. That can sometimes leave them feeling retraumatised, as though they have been put through the wringer again.”
“The Bill makes provision to offer those protections and provide clarity to victims that they do not have to face their perpetrator in court. <BR /> <BR />Members asked questions about a range of matters, including the independence of the office, the ability to review the performance of any future commissioner, the costs of establishing th…”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention. She was absolutely right to take that action, as it means that victims' voices are right at the heart of the matters under discussion. It is now obvious to us that that should have been done years ago, but it is good that it is being done now.”
“Officials explained that the Bill would legislate on the disclosure regime not to prevent an application for disclosure but to set out a process whereby the defence would have to show the relevance of the information that it was requesting. That is an important protection.”
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“The Committee therefore needs the appropriate time to make sure that the Bill is fit for purpose. The timing of the Bill's introduction means that the Committee Stage began just before Easter, and the Committee wasted no time in issuing its call for evidence. While an extension until 27 November may seem long, it must be remembered that it covers not only the Easter period but the summer and Halloween recess periods. We will start to take oral evidence in the coming weeks. I should point out, though, that our consideration of matters relating to the Justice Bill is ongoing, but we will do our best to manage the knock-on effect that that may have on our consideration of the Criminal Justice (Sentencing etc) Bill.”
“I suspect that every Member in the Chamber will be familiar with the case of Enda Dolan, whose family has campaigned tirelessly on the issue and fought with such dignity and decorum on the need for greater deterrence in cases like his. <BR /> <BR />There is then what is not in the Bill. The Committee has already had correspondence from several individuals and other stakeholders about issues relating to sentencing that, they feel, are missing from the Bill. New offences and additional aggravators are proposed that will require consideration by the Committee, including consideration of whether the Bill is the right vehicle to take those issues forward. <BR /> <BR />Mr Deputy Speaker, I have tried to be brief, but, as you will recognise, it is not a simple or straightforward Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />Part 6 deals with aggravators to sentences for crimes committed against certain groups and includes race, religion, sexual orientation, disability and vulnerability, as well as introducing a new offence and new aggravators for attacks on public workers. We have already received representations questioning whether the right categories are included, whether the aggravators are sufficient or whether there is anything missing. Those are all questions that the Committee will wish to consider and that we will, no doubt, hear evidence about. <BR /> <BR />Part 7 deals with road traffic offences and stiffer sentencing for causing death or serious injury through driving whilst under the influence of drugs or alcohol, as well as careless driving or driving while distracted, and tougher sentencing for repeat offenders.”
“Again, I am sure that Members will have been approached by their constituents about those issues when they have felt that the sentence given to an offender has been wholly inadequate. The Bill also includes provisions to deal with sentencing where an offender has failed to disclose the location of a victim's remains or how a victim's remains were disposed of. We will all be fully aware of the horrific cases that have affected families in Northern Ireland. Those provisions are therefore hugely impactful, and the Committee needs to make sure that they are the best that can be delivered.”
“They can be a key part of a bigger picture in trying to reduce reoffending and providing restorative justice and alternatives to custody. Suspended sentencing must balance the need for the punishment of offenders with the delivery of justice for victims, who remain paramount in the Committee's thoughts and considerations. It must also provide for rehabilitation and restorative or reparative justice to seek to prevent reoffending and to provide the offender with the ability to make amends for their crimes. <BR /> <BR />The Bill also sets out the starting points for mandatory life tariffs, which can be adjusted by considering aggravating or mitigating factors. It also clarifies and expands the arrangements for referral of certain cases when sentences are considered to be too lenient.”
“I will not go through each one in detail but will highlight some of the key provisions that the Committee will examine. <BR /> <BR />Part 1 of the Bill sets out the purposes and principles of sentencing and seeks to improve awareness and understanding of how sentencing decisions are made. That is a vital element of the Bill. We have all heard about the lack of transparency and the apparent mystery that surrounds sentencing decisions, which has, on occasions, led to a public outcry. Measures that improve transparency and help the understanding of how sentencing decisions are reached are to be welcomed. It is the Committee's responsibility to make sure that the provisions are sufficient and meaningful and will achieve their stated aim. <BR /> <BR />Part 2 relates to suspended sentences.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sentencing is not a straightforward area of legislation. I think that all Members will acknowledge that it is a complex, detailed and important aspect of law. Not only is it technical and complex, but the Bill deals with some sensitive issues that have a real-life impact on victims and their families. The Committee Stage of the Bill formally began on 18 March 2026, but, even before that, the Committee had begun to receive correspondence from members of the public about the Bill's content and, indeed, about what is not included. It is of clear importance to us all, and it is important that we get it right. <BR /> <BR />The Bill deals with many different areas related to sentencing, and each one is significant in its own right.”
“I begin by placing on record that the Committee welcomes the engagement that it has had so far on the Bill with the Department of Justice. Our pre-legislative discussions began as early as March 2025, when the Minister of Justice gave evidence to the Committee and provided a brief outline of the Bill's intended remit. Departmental officials provided a more detailed breakdown of its content in November 2025. The Committee was advised that the intention behind the Bill was to build on work started as far back as 2016, when Claire Sugden initiated a review of sentencing provision during her tenure as Minister of Justice. The fact that the Bill has been at least 10 years in development demonstrates its complexity and the level of consideration that will be required at Committee Stage.”
“We should be able to allow and arm our judiciary to consider aggravating factors so that people who need to go to prison can go to prison for longer. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion and, in the interests of keeping things collective, support the amendment.”
“Yes. I thank the Minister for saying that. He would say that, and the Justice Minister would say that too if she were sitting here, but the truth is this: people die on our streets because of drug use and death dealers, who peddle death, peddle drugs and peddle substances that they even make worse chemically , and prey on our young people and our most vulnerable. That is unforgivable, so something needs to be done. <BR /> <BR />We always hear, in political circles, about being tough on crime. I do not necessarily like that phrase because I think that we should be smarter on crime. Sometimes, being smarter on crime means being tougher on crime, and sometimes it just means being smarter. I think that that is one area where we should get smarter. That is where aggravation comes into it.”
“It is just one of those topics that the Department, the Committee and the Assembly should attest to, assess and scrutinise now, and it should be placed in the Criminal Justice (Sentencing etc) Bill now.”
“We should do that in the Assembly and in the Justice Committee when we are reviewing and scrutinising the Criminal Justice (Sentencing etc) Bill. <BR /> <BR />I note that the Minister has launched the sentencing review. The Department did that on 14 January. I had a wry smile to myself when I saw that sentencing review because, while it is right to review sentencing and other laws, the Minister was, at that time, about to launch her Criminal Justice (Sentencing etc) Bill. I always talk about piloting things to death, and, sometimes, we review things to death. I think that the review was a defensive manoeuvre to assure us that, "We are looking at it, and it will be in the next Bill", when, really, we should be considering it in this Bill.”
“I rise to speak to the very serious motion before us today. I thank the Opposition for bringing it to the House because I think that it will be a worthwhile debate. <BR /> <BR />First, I pay tribute to Pauline Duddy, who has corresponded with me. I am yet to meet Pauline, but I promised her that I will meet her today, and I will fulfil that promise after the debate. We have to hear what Pauline Duddy has to say. She has done a tremendous amount of work. She has worked with my Foyle colleagues up in Londonderry on what is a very important issue for her. I can only imagine what it is like to lose a daughter, but for Pauline to use that grief and campaign tirelessly to make life better for other families whose loved ones could suffer the same fate as Jasmin is admirable, and it is something that the House needs to note.”
“Through every decade of change, she has been a steadfast champion, not because it was easy but because caring has always been in her nature. Pat's dedication is not only to supporting people with MS but has helped to shape a community where hope, connection and support flourish. As one of Pat's MLAs, I thank her for her dedicated service. She even contacted me by email at 10.40 last night to thank me for being there yesterday.”
“I am delighted to mention and to honour Pat Crossley, who has given 40 years of extraordinary voluntary service to the MS Society Northern Ireland and to the people of Ballymoney and beyond. Pat's journey with the Ballymoney group began four decades ago when she stepped forward to lend a hand, and, in doing so, she strengthened support in her local community, helped to maintain one of our longest-serving groups and embodied compassion in action. From organising social gatherings and exercise classes, to representing the MS Society at Downing Street and Buckingham Palace, to personal fundraising such as a parachute jump and abseiling, Pat's contribution has helped to raise funds and awareness in ways that truly uplift others.”
“It has funded pioneering research right here at Queen's University Belfast, provided vital services, lobbied for better services and forged a community in which no one should face MS alone. <BR /> <BR />The MS Society Northern Ireland held an event yesterday in the Long Gallery, where I was able to meet and introduce myself to some exceptional characters, some tremendous people. One of them was Sam Young, a volunteer fundraiser with the MS Society. Sam's wife, Mae, was diagnosed with MS in 2019, which inspired him to take action. Sam has written two books, with all the proceeds going to MS research, raising thousands of pounds. <BR /> <BR />It is a particularly special privilege to recognise one person whose dedication reflects the absolute best of that community spirit.”
“Yesterday marked a hugely significant milestone, the 70th anniversary of the MS Society Northern Ireland and its unwavering support for people who are affected by MS. What began in England back in 1953, when founders Richard and Mary Cave responded to the glaring lack of support and treatments for people living with MS, sparked an interest in the MS community in Northern Ireland, with the first branches of the society being established here in 1956. The MS Society has grown into a remarkable national movement of care, research, awareness and community. Over the past seven decades, the MS Society has been at the heart of support for thousands of families.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that farming communities and families are under so much pressure, what message will he send to the people who attend the agricultural shows? What solace can he give them, given the cost of diesel, the cost of fertiliser and the heavy burden placed on farming families by his net zero policies?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer, but, given the fact that her party has a large number of councillors in Belfast, what signal does that send to the law-abiding people of this country? Is there one rule for Sinn Féin and another rule for the rest of us?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Will she state whether she supports the North/South interconnector? Is she with her party or adrift of it in that regard?”
“It is about time that you focused on that.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Wisdom has been chasing you, but you have always been faster. The issue is not about a war in the Middle East but about the residents of Londonderry, Foyle and Limavady, Coleraine and Ballymena.”
“I can tell you now that wind energy is the most fragile when it comes to that sort of thing, so you will always need a base unit to cope with the amount of energy that we can produce through wind, solar and any other renewable technology that we want to employ. <BR /> <BR />We need to do more. We should do more. We need a greater mix, but to appeal for a headlong rush to a greater percentage of wind alone will just not cut it, because there are consequences to that that hardly anybody understands or grasps, which puts more price on to the consumers of Northern Ireland, and it will be on your heads.”
“Do not get me wrong: I think that the prices and benefits of the North/South interconnector are inflated — I really do — but we still need it for that interconnection, just in the same way that we need greater interconnection with GB. <BR /> <BR />We have to worry about the fragility of wind. The reason that we need a plant — we will always need a plant — is because when the system operator — in our case, SONI — worries about energy generation on a half-hourly basis, it not only worries about security of supply but it worries about quality of supply. What I mean by that is that, with energy, there is a frequency, and that is hertz, and if that frequency drops below a certain level or rises above a certain level, fuses start to blow and damage can be done.”
“We also need greater interconnection, but here is the rub, folks: if we get further interconnection with the Republic of Ireland, GB, France, Belgium, Spain and Germany, that will be a mix of energy, including nuclear, coal and gas. Yet you do not want to know that or to listen to that, because you are zealots when it comes to renewable energy, and that is really taxing. We have Sinn Féin, which says that it wants a greater all-island approach to this, but we have an integrated single electricity market (I-SEM) that does not really work for our people, yet it cannot make up its mind on the North/South interconnector.”
“That is why our people are being fleeced. To have 30% of that go up in the air — how bad is that? How detrimental is that to our people? We need to get technologies that will actually work and embrace and capture the generation that we produce through wind and solar.”
“I will make progress. <BR /> <BR />When people call for more wind, they should realise that that wind costs the same unit price of generation as a power plant, but we pay additional costs through capacity payments for its being there. We also pay constraint charges, which are not a charge but a payment to the wind farm companies for having to be turned off.”
“Yes, I agree with the Member, as long as consumers have a choice. We are building houses without chimneys and leaving a monopoly in which householders will not be able to choose how they heat their home. That is an issue that we will have to grapple with. When people call —”
“More than anything, we need the mix to be right. It is the mix that will protect our people from global pressures and from complicated systems and markets that fleece our people. We will have people in here cheerleading those same markets and those same complicated systems to the point where they do not realise what they do.”
“There has been nothing over the years more frustrating for me than this subject, on which so many politicians reach for zealot status with regard to goals and percentages that they wish to see on renewable energy. They are zealots without the wisdom or know-how to help the people and householders of Northern Ireland. It is not good enough to suggest that we want to have 80% or 100% and to try to reach that without knowing the real-life consequences that you are placing on householders in this country. That is what I have been listening to in frustration for years on the subject. <BR /> <BR />We all would like to see more wind energy, but, if you simply call for a rise in the percentage when 30% of what is generated goes up in the air, what is the point? You need better technology to support the renewable energies that we already generate.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he realise that, even if we had 100% wind energy, we would still need a power plant fuelled by coal, oil or gas to keep stability in our system?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he recognise, as I do, that, with regard to the North/South interconnector, Sinn Féin talks out of both sides of its mouth? Up in Northern Ireland, it has one policy, but, down in the Republic, it has another. It is about time that Sinn Féin got its act together with regard to the North/South interconnector.”
“We will remain vigilant for ever and a day of all aspects of digital ID legislation here and at Westminster.”
“For the life of me, I cannot think why digital ID is needed for age verification when being sold a knife or a crossbow, even online. Every adult will have some form of ID that they can utilise to ensure that, when someone is selling them a knife or crossbow, they will be able to prove their age. The burden should be on the buyer to prove that they are over 18. That way is much safer. <BR /> <BR />The Government should not have used the Crime and Policing Bill or any other Bill to push aspects, small as they may be, of digital ID on to the people whom, they say, they are trying to protect. There are massive issues with digital ID that we will not go into today, but I put down a marker that my party will be forever vigilant, as, I am sure, will parties in the House that do not support digital ID in that guise.”
“Given the contention, even in Westminster, where there was a debate on age verification and the use of digital ID, it is important that I record my party's view that we need to take the issue of digital ID very seriously and that the mandatory nature of the Government's proposal was going to be very damaging, had it seen the light of day. We should also be alert and forever vigilant about the determination of this Government to bring in digital ID. It is not good enough to say that it will not be mandatory, when they will make life so difficult for those who do not have digital ID. It is not good enough to say that something is voluntary when people's lives will become so arduous without it. That is an indirect way of making digital ID mandatory.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will now speak as a member of the Democratic Unionist Party. We welcome anything that makes life safer for everyone in Northern Ireland, especially when it involves knives and crossbows. I have witnessed crimes in my North Antrim constituency involving attacks by knives and crossbows, so that is something that we have to be mindful of and careful in dealing with. Age verification is really important because there should be no way for a child to be getting their hands on equipment that can cause so much damage to life and limb. Therefore, it is important that we focus on the age aspect.”
“Subject to Executive approval, the Department aimed to schedule a debate for 16 March. The Committee was content to note the update on the proposal for the third LCM. Furthermore, in noting that, under Standing Order 42A(9), paragraphs 42A(4) to (8) did not apply to subsequent LCMs, and, in view of the limited time available, the Committee agreed not to complete a report on the third memorandum. The Department's correspondence has been made available on the Committee's web page. At its meeting last Thursday, 12 March, the Committee noted confirmation from the Department that it had received Executive approval to bring forward a third LCM in respect of the age verification provisions in the Crime and Policing Bill and that the memorandum had, therefore, been tabled.”
“In addition to those covered by this LCM, the amendments related to child criminal exploitation, child sexual abuse image generators, stalking and access to driver licensing information. Members noted the Department's advice that it was not necessary to include those in a new LCM as the amendments were minor enough not to represent a change in policy, were minor drafting changes, reflected approaches already taken in statutory guidance or fell within the scope of the LCMs previously agreed by the House. <BR /> <BR />The Department advised that a third LCM would, however, be needed to extend the provision in the Crime and Policing Bill dealing with powers to strengthen age verification requirements for the online sale and delivery of knives and crossbows to Northern Ireland.”
“During its consideration of the second LCM, on 15 January this year, a paper from the Department informed Committee members of the potential for a third LCM should the provisions be reintroduced during Lords Report Stage. The Department advised that, if that was not possible, it would be necessary to include the measures in a Northern Ireland Bill in the next mandate. <BR /> <BR />At its meeting on 5 March 2026, the Committee considered a further update from the Department informing members that the Justice Minister had received correspondence from the Minister of State (Crime and Policing) about several Government amendments tabled for the Lords Report Stage that applied to Northern Ireland.”
“The Committee requested further information on how the age verification process for the purchase of knives would work for online purchases and how the threshold of six was determined for reportable sales of bladed articles, and it asked for clarification on the different definitions of "a knife" within the provisions and how those were distinct from each other. The Committee noted the Department's response at its meeting on 9 October 2025. <BR /> <BR />The Committee received an update from the Department in November, however, advising that the provisions had been removed from the second LCM due to the Opposition indicating that they would oppose the amendments as they were linking the power to specify other methods of age verification with the Government's plan for a digital ID scheme.”
“The Committee for Justice supported the Minister's proposals to extend a number of provisions in the Crime and Policing Bill by way of two previous legislative consent motions that were debated in the Chamber on 23 June 2025 and on 2 February 2026. The Committee was advised by the Department in June last year that the provisions in today's motion would be part of the second LCM. In relation to strengthening age verification for the online sale and delivery of knives and crossbows, the Committee took oral evidence from Department of Justice officials on that provision at its meeting of 11 September 2025.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion as Chair of the Committee for Justice. The Minister has outlined the purpose of this third LCM for the Crime and Policing Bill and the provisions that it will extend to Northern Ireland, so I will focus my remarks on the Committee's consideration.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. In principle, every Member will want to see Caoimhe's law enacted. The Minister gives all those reasons why the Department cannot do Caoimhe's law. How does she expect a Committee with five members of staff to do all that work that she says that the Department cannot do? Is there a danger — something that will be a nightmarish scenario for the Minister and even for the House, maybe — that if the Department does not do it and the Committee does not do it, an MLA will, and it will be a private Member's amendment?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way on that point. It is important, and I agree with the concept that all public workers should be protected with that broad brush in law. There is a danger, however, of that broad-brush approach diminishing the actual offence. Is the Minister open to having a sliding scale for assaults on people working in public services, such as blue-light services, with that being an aggravating factor, or tougher sentences? Barristers and solicitors are talking about a statutory presumption against suspended sentences. Is that something that the Minister would consider with regard to a sliding scale for assaults on public workers?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way and for the clarification in her speech. The suspended sentence order that she talked about comes with a community requirement, and with that comes the unpaid work requirement, which could be an option for a court. Will the Minister outline what the unpaid work requirement would entail?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I acknowledge the point that she makes about the manner in which we are debating what are sensitive subjects today. The Member talks about hate crime. The good thing about the aggravation piece is that it will be established in a court of law whether the offence was perpetrated by hate and then aggravated. It is important to acknowledge that, sometimes, the victim may deem it to be a hate crime but it may not necessarily be one if there are multiple victims of all races.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that the Minister said that the Chamber will be able to debate this on 26 May, I ask when parents, who so badly need and want these certificates, will be able to obtain one. Will there be some sort of awareness campaign around obtaining a baby loss certificate?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Useful information given at those critical meetings led to Northern Ireland citizens receiving support to come home and to stay safe. People with British passports and those with Irish passports were able to avail themselves of that support. How can the First Minister justify staying away, and how can she look those people in the eye?”
“It is a really sensitive issue, and it is really important that we deal with it. There are other victims out there with similar, but not identical, stories to tell, and they could maybe be covered in Part 7. There could be exploration of what can be done in that regard. <BR /> <BR />As I said, I am intrigued by the Bill. I look forward to scrutinising it with my colleagues on the Justice Committee. The Committee has assembled a very good team. We are very capable of scrutinising the Bill, of assisting the Minister and the Department with it and of advising them where clauses might be bettered or where new clauses might be added. I look forward to scrutinising the Criminal Justice (Sentencing etc) Bill in the weeks ahead.”
“Therefore, whilst it is right to protect retail staff and service workers, we have to look at the elevation of people who save us, care for us, try to save our lives and keep us from harm. There is a lot of exploration work to be done there. <BR /> <BR />Part 7 is about road traffic offences, and I am intrigued with that Part because a number of MLAs have come to me about potential amendments related to road traffic issues. I wonder whether Part 7 opens up scope for such work. I will be working with the Bill Office, probably in the next couple of weeks, to explore ways in which we can maybe bring something in that provides a service to people who have suffered. Of course, Part 7 is partly to do with Enda Dolan, who was aged 18 when he was struck by a van and died.”