Paul Frew
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for that intervention. Nevertheless, there are concerns that I want to address. The Minister and the departmental officials will know that, even from the range of questions that I have asked. We need to make sure that we get the balance correct.”
“In the written and oral evidence received then, the Committee was advised of potential amendments that the Minister may table at Consideration Stage, including an amendment to remove the commissioner that is being considered in liaison with OLC.”
“That in itself causes some victims and witnesses bother, because they are in a system that they are not part of, which means that they do not get the support that they require. That can sometimes leave them feeling retraumatised, as though they have been put through the wringer again.”
“The Bill makes provision to offer those protections and provide clarity to victims that they do not have to face their perpetrator in court. <BR /> <BR />Members asked questions about a range of matters, including the independence of the office, the ability to review the performance of any future commissioner, the costs of establishing th…”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention. She was absolutely right to take that action, as it means that victims' voices are right at the heart of the matters under discussion. It is now obvious to us that that should have been done years ago, but it is good that it is being done now.”
“Officials explained that the Bill would legislate on the disclosure regime not to prevent an application for disclosure but to set out a process whereby the defence would have to show the relevance of the information that it was requesting. That is an important protection.”
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“We know that pay awards are a massive issue, but there are no recurring moneys coming from Treasury for pay awards. Therefore, we have to fund that recurrently for ever and a day. That is a massive challenge. <BR /> <BR />Given all of those challenges — having to pay people appropriately, not having enough money in the first place and a crumbling infrastructure — what do we need? It is obvious that we need more money, but we also need better scrutiny and, with that better scrutiny, transformation and reform of our Departments and of how our services are delivered. I have yet to see any real progress in those areas, either so far in this short term or previously. It alarms me that we do not see that.”
“I guess that we can all agree with that, and we can all agree that we have not been funded under an ideal model in recent years. We have had success, which I welcome and acknowledge, with regard to a needs-based funding framework, whereby we are funded under relative need of 124%, and that is essential going forward. However, with that figure, we will still hit a cliff edge soon, so I push the Minister to do all that she can in her endeavours to pursue the Exchequer and the new Government, whoever it may be, to ensure that we are funded by need. <BR /> <BR />One the biggest issues that will face us, as well as how we will build on and improve our infrastructure, is, simply, how we will pay people what they are worth and what is fair. If we do not pay people fairly and appropriately, we will see our infrastructure and our services crumble.”
“I welcome the progress that has been made on a Budget. It has been a long time coming. We understand why it has taken so long, and we understand the procedures that have been followed to get here, not least the 65% Vote on Account earlier in the year that allowed that wee bit more flexibility. I am glad that we will have a Budget Bill before the Assembly tomorrow, before we go into recess. We would have been in a bad place if we, as an Assembly, had not had sight of that Budget (No. 2) Bill until September. I welcome the progress, and I thank the Finance Minister for that progress. <BR /> <BR />We hear time after time, not only from the Finance Minister and her Department, that this is a challenging Budget and that we are in a challenging environment.”
“I welcome the Minister's movement to have an investigation into the issue of excess deaths, which is something that the previous Minister refused to conduct. <BR /> <BR />Does the Minister believe that lockdowns not only caused massive damage to the development of our infants, damage to the education of our children, the rise in anxiety and depression among our most vulnerable, an increase in domestic and sexual violence and an increase in child abuse but caused deaths?”
“<BR /> <BR />Given what the Minister said about there being unanimous support at the Executive for the June monitoring round allocations, is it not hypocritical of the Department of Health and its Minister to support an allocation of £121 million of resource DEL in the June monitoring round but then vote against the Budget?”
“Following on from the Minister's answer to Paula Bradshaw, and Paula Bradshaw should know this, there is a duty under the Functioning of Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 for a Northern Ireland Department to provide the relevant Assembly Committee with a written or oral briefing on the Department's submission to the Department of Finance for each monitoring round no later than seven days after that submission is made. Can the Minister tell the House whether that duty has been fulfilled by all Departments?”
“I stand here in support of the Roberts family and other families who have been fighting campaigns to bring truth into the heart of our health service and the people who work there. <BR /> <BR />A statutory duty of candour on individuals would not only inject that truth into our system but arm ordinary staff members who are told by their line managers to carry out unethical practices, such as shredding paperwork, amending notes or being untruthful about the evidence. It will arm them to say, "No, it is unacceptable for you to ask me to do that. It is even unlawful". It will arm ordinary staff members — doctors, junior doctors, nurses and other staff members in our health service — to shine a light on the truth so that families get redress and the truth about what happened to their loved ones sooner.”
“Whilst it is true to say that the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission remained silent through the worst excesses of human rights violations during the pandemic and on the coercive and discriminatory nature of some of the laws that the Department of Health produced at that time, I commend the intervention by the human rights commissioner, Alyson Kilpatrick, in which she stated that there should be a statutory duty of candour: an obligation on doctors to be fully and completely truthful in order to protect lives and stop the atrocious cover-ups that have happened in our recent past. The time for obstruction is nearly over. The time of dragging their feet, dark arts and unethical practices from the Department of Health, the BMA and others is coming to an end.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I hear everything that he says about regional colleges, but will he agree with me that the situation does not bode well, given that, owing to staffing issues, the Northern Regional College (NRC) cannot even provide an electrical installation course for first-year apprentices this year?”
“To tell how medicine hurt them; to tell of their experiences of the symptoms that they go through daily; to tell how they cannot get proper, clear pathways of care and how they have been gaslit and even called anti-vax, even though they received the vaccine. <BR /> <BR />Things need to change for the better. I ask those MLAs who have a conscience to meet some of the vaccine-injured people on the steps of Stormont next Tuesday, 2 July, when they will be protesting.”
“Sinn Féin MLAs were also not allowed to sponsor that event, even though SDLP and Sinn Féin Members opposite have helped constituents who happen to be vaccine-injured. <BR /> <BR />It is an absolute disgrace that parties and MLAs are not allowed to sponsor events for people who have been injured by medicine like those affected by the blood transfusion scandal and hyponatraemia. Those people and the vaccine-injured and bereaved are the same. <BR /> <BR />I plead with the parties opposite — and with the Alliance Party, some of whose MLAs also refused to sponsor the event — to search their hearts and consciences and allow the vaccine-injured and those bereaved by medicine to hold an awareness event in this Building, which should be open to all, to tell their story.”
“I want to raise awareness of an issue that has shamed the Assembly since September of last year. The vaccine injured and bereaved community has been trying to hold an awareness event in the Long Gallery and had proposed a date in September 2023. Although the DUP was only too willing to sponsor that event, SDLP MLAs, on instruction from their leader, were not allowed to do so.”
“<BR /> <BR />I ask the Minister for the Economy to look into the matter and to step in, if need be, to ensure that the recruitment and staffing challenge does not happen again and that the course can be rescued for the forthcoming academic year.”
“I suggest that the electrical installation course may not be the only course under severe pressure when it comes to taking students in this academic year or in the future. <BR /> <BR />It also has a devastating impact on this year's young people who aspire to become electricians. The electrical installation trade is a very good one. It is very well paid. It is hard work, but it is a very good trade to have. For young people, especially those from working-class areas, a trade may be the only way to get reliable, good wages. It will have a devastating effect not only in my constituency of North Antrim but further afield in the Northern Regional College's catchment area.”
“Northern Regional College has confirmed that it is unable to offer year 1 of its electrical installation course for the 2024-25 academic year due to staffing and recruitment challenges. That has massive ramifications for the wider construction industry. <BR /> <BR />Electrical installation courses are usually very well regulated and are employer-led. That means that, if a firm with 100 employees wants to recruit first-year apprentices, the firm decides how many it requires and sends them to the course. It is the same for a self-employed electrician who needs a first-year apprentice; they will send the young person to the course. If there is no year-1 intake, it will badly damage not only the electrical industry but the wider construction industry.”
“I will work with any Member to effect change to make sure that the Roberts family get the justice and acknowledgement that they deserve, along with the blood transfusion scandal people and the Muckamore Abbey Hospital victims, and to stop the gaslighting and isolation of the vaccine-damaged and bereaved community, because they also deserve acknowledgement with regard to an individual duty of candour with criminal sanctions for breach. <BR /> <BR />It is not the fact that someone makes a mistake or even that there was wrongdoing. It is the fact that it is covered up — systematically covered up — by a Department, trusts and a health service that deem it necessary to do so. That is tremendously sad, and I will fight and put every effort I can into seeing that duty of candour in this place.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution, but that does not cut it. It simply does not cut it because there is no intent and has been no intent by the Department of Health, no intent by the previous Health Minister and absolutely no intent with the new Health Minister to bring in an individual duty of candour with criminal sanction for breach. That is astounding, and I wish to pursue that. <BR /> <BR />Pat Sheehan, who is not in his place, raised this yesterday, which alerted me to the fact that Sinn Féin must be in a position to support this. I give this guarantee and make this commitment: I will put my name to any amendment that brings in an individual duty of candour.”
“Let me remind the House: the report on hyponatraemia-related deaths was published in January 2018, following an inquiry into the deaths of five children in hospitals in Northern Ireland. Five children. The report concluded that the deaths were avoidable and that the culture of the Health and Social Care service and arrangements in place to ensure the quality of services and behaviour of individuals had contributed to their deaths. Justice O'Hara was appointed chair of that review and made 96 recommendations for HSC improvement, among which were the enactment of an organisational duty of candour and an individual duty of candour with criminal sanction for breach.”
“It is therefore really important that the Ministers in the Executive and the MLAs in the Assembly ensure that there is full scrutiny of all legislation that comes before the House. <BR /> <BR />When I look down the programme, I get all excited, because I see opportunities for me to table amendments to legislation to effect change in a positive way. I therefore welcome the programme, but there are Bills missing from it. It was interesting yesterday when the Sinn Féin Member Pat Sheehan asked the Minister of Health about introducing an individual duty of candour. The waffle that we got from the Minister, who talked about black boxes in aeroplanes, was astounding. That, however, typifies the Department of Health on the issue: it intends to consult it to death. It has no intention of introducing an individual duty of candour.”
“I welcome the legislative programme from the Executive, but I sound a warning that having a programme is all well and good, but it should never be about quantity. Rather, it should always be about quality. There are examples from the previous mandate that should warn us all. The Department of Justice and its Minister are in a sorry mess because of legislation that the Minister of Justice passed in the House. In addition, the Department of Health was in the High Court on 29 May 2024 on account of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) Regulations 2020, particularly regulation 7(1). It has been attested that the PSNI did not have the power to enter premises to issue fixed penalty notices, which means that most of those fixed penalty notices are now unsafe.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given the fact that the vaccine certification scheme was used to discriminate against people and coerce them to take a medicine that could cause serious side effects, making them very sick, and that some people lost family due to vaccine injury, will the Health Minister acknowledge that some people's lives have been destroyed? Will he commit to meeting the vaccine-injured and bereaved community, something that his predecessor refused to do?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for that acknowledgement. It means a lot, and it will mean a lot to the people who have been injured and bereaved. VIBS-NI, the support group that helps people who have been vaccine-injured, is planning a protest on the steps of Stormont on Tuesday 2 July. That may be a good date, Minister, for you and the "First Minister for all" to meet those people.”
“The SEUPB's annual report and accounts for 2021 have been certified by the Comptroller and Auditor General in both jurisdictions. They have been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas and will be laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly in due course. Minister, what is the hold-up, and why are we still awaiting certification for 2022?”
“Think how many people have been deregistered and how many people sit in pain, having trouble accessing the services that they require for proper dental treatment. Those figures are important. This is a ticking time bomb of pain, and I need the House to recognise that.”
“Last month, I asked the Health Minister how many people had been deregistered by their dentist in the past six years. I asked that question because I was seeing a worrying trend in my constituency office. The figures are absolutely astounding. The number of people who were deregistered in 2018 was 572. In 2019, it was 784. You would think that that was natural. In 2020, the first year of COVID, the number was down to 243. You would expect that that was to do with the pandemic, but look at what happened with lockdown philosophy: in 2021, the figure for deregistration by dentists was 2,021, which is four times the number of deregistrations in 2018. It did not stop there. In 2022, the figure rose to 9,432, and, in 2023, a whopping 12,858 people were deregistered by their dentist.”
“Is it not also the case that a bystander — a witness — can perceive something to be a hate crime, without knowing any of the detail or context behind it?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. There is, of course, validity in what she says, but does she recognise that bad legislation will not protect anyone? In fact, it could make lives worse.”
“Yes. Do not get me wrong, and the Minister should not get me wrong: we are totally opposed to any criminal activity that is motivated by hate. However, it is about making sure that we get the legislation right. I have put down a marker and a warning that say to the House that we should be careful about how we proceed with any piece of legislation but with this one in particular.”
“Of course, yes, but why are we trying to reinvent the wheel? Under the Criminal Justice (No. 2) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004, offences are aggravated by hostility. There are already laws about aggravation. I ask the House and the Department of Justice to be careful about how they proceed with legislation. Only this week, we have been taught a lesson about what happens when we bring laws in in this place and they are tested in court and deemed to be wrong.”
“He was a passenger in a vehicle and threw eggs out onto pedestrians from the road. The police deemed that to be a hate crime. The eggs struck three people, one of whom was a lady from Poland. That lady perceived that crime to be a hate crime.That young person was interviewed by the police, who told him that that was because of a hate crime. He protested his innocence, saying that he did not know who the people were. They were driving at speed, throwing eggs out of the car and hitting people indiscriminately. He did not know the ethnicity or background of any of those people. You can see where things will unravel, so it will have to be carefully laid out.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, whilst we should all agree that crimes motivated by hate are wrong, I also look to a few years ago, when a section of people chose not to avail themselves of a medicine or disclose their personal, private medical history, and those people were hated upon. They were discriminated against by the Government and by business. Should those people who chose not to avail themselves of a medicine or disclose their medical history also be included in a protected group? It was only a number of years ago when hate was poured down on those people by Ministers. <BR /> <BR />We will have to look carefully at what we do with any legislation, but the main issue for me around hate crime is the perception. In my constituency, I had to deal with a young person who got into trouble with the law.”
“Whilst the debate is highly important, we are in danger of calling for legislation for the sake of it. We already have laws that govern us around hate crime, such as the Criminal Justice (No. 2) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 and the Public Order (Northern Ireland) Order 1987. Whilst you could argue that the legislation needs to be freshened, I have yet to hear exactly what should be included in a new hate crime Bill from those who tabled the motion or the Minister. When you look at the examples from the Republic of Ireland and Scotland, you see that they are exemplars of how not to do such legislation.”
“I genuinely wish the new Minister well in his brief and his challenge. I already detect a sea change in the positivity coming from the new Minister; I appreciate that. <BR /> <BR />Given the concerns expressed by the heads of trusts and in the higher echelons of his new Department on what could happen in eight weeks' time, when they know rightly that there is a June monitoring round in six weeks' time, has the Minister seen the Department's bids for June monitoring? If so, is he satisfied with those bids?”
“— than the Department of Health has spent its money over the past five years.”
“It is challenging, but it is doable. If we had a strategy and a Programme for Government that fit the needs of our people, we could spend that money wisely, better than we have in the past and, especially, better —”
“I thank the Member for her contribution. She is absolutely right. If we do not get to grips with our infrastructure — water, waste water, rivers, waterways, roads, railways and everything else — and fund it properly, people will die, people will become sicker and people will become less fit, which will put a burden on the health service. There is more than one way to prevent sickness and to encourage fitness and well-being. Infrastructure is a key asset. <BR /> <BR />We have a very challenging Budget. I genuinely wish all the Ministers well with their challenging budgets. Their envelopes are small, but more money is coming. We have to put this in context: this Budget is 7% higher than the Secretary of State's initial Budget for 2023-24, with a commitment from the Government that more money will come through the June monitoring round.”
“Where is the strategy? Where is the focus? Where is the vision? The vision seems to be on South Antrim. That is his prerogative, but do not then come to the Assembly and Executive and try to run amok when there are people who, although I may disagree with their spends, are at least trying to make a go of it. At least they are here in the Chamber, making a go of it in the knowledge that their budgets are tight. Yet, we have a Minister who is running away when his Department has failed miserably to spend all the money that it has been allocated over five years. That is the nonsense, Mr Speaker. That is the nonsense. The deployment of fear, which will hurt people out there, is nothing but a sham fight.”
“In 2019-2020, there was an underspend of £69 million, £55 million of which was capital DEL. In 2021-22, the underspend was £25 million, and almost all of it was non-ring-fenced resource DEL. In 2022-23, there was an underspend of £27 million, £23 million of which was resource DEL. The Department has handed back £153 million over the past five years. How is that for a track record? How dare the Minister then ask for more money that he will not be able to spend, whilst there are people — our constituents and even some of our family members — who are waiting in chronic pain, unable to get the procedure that they need?”
“Many are in chronic pain, which is unbearable, but, instead of the Health Minister stepping up to the mark, he is running away. In many ways, we have heard repetition today and over the past number of weeks. Again, the Minister is deploying fear that will hurt people, as it did during the pandemic. The Minister says that he does not have enough money and that the impact will be "catastrophic", a term that is up there with "biblical proportions". <BR /> <BR />Let us look at the Department of Health's record. If we throw more money at Health, what will we get? According to the Northern Ireland Audit Office report, 'Budgeting and Accountability', in 2018-19, the Department of Health underspent by £32 million, £26 million of which was non-ring-fenced resource DEL.”
“Where is the strategic vision to get out of this and make sure that the money is spent appropriately for our people? Not having a Programme for Government allows parties to act irresponsibly around that. They can decide willy-nilly that they will not vote for a Budget, because doing so has no impact on the Budget. The SDLP did it for years. It complained about and voted the Budget all the time. We are seeing a repetition of that from the Ulster Unionist Party. It is sad; it really is. <BR /> <BR />When we need to step up and be responsible in how we act and spend money, it is sad that we can see that the Ulster Unionists are failing us — not only us, as a House and an Executive, but the people. Many people are waiting for procedures.”
“We have heard from the Finance Minister today and repeatedly over the past number of weeks that this a challenging Budget. We hear that day in, day out, but what does it actually mean? It seems to mean that the envelope is far too small, and challenges come with that. Nobody is arguing that we have enough money. We know that we do not have enough money and that we are fighting hard to try to get Northern Ireland funded to its relative need. I applaud the Minister's work with His Majesty's Treasury on funding us to our relative need. Going forward, it is vital that we ensure that Northern Ireland is funded according to need. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to this challenging Budget, we know that the envelope is too small, but where is the strategy?”
“Does the Member, in her Committee position, think that the date of 12 June is adequate for a briefing on a Budget that, really, she needed to know about now?”
“I worry about members of the North Antrim farming community and the impact that all those conditions have on the lives and health of its members. We know that the health service is not in any fit state to help anyone with their mental health. It is so unfortunate that, at this time, we have a Health Minister who, instead of looking towards the farming community in North Antrim, is looking towards South Antrim. Instead of having a Health Minister who is prepared to tackle mental health waiting lists, we have a Health Minister who is looking towards a Westminster election. That is regrettable. I wish it were not so. We need all the help that we can get for the farming community in North Antrim, so that is regrettable.”
“Mr Speaker, I, too, wish you well on your return after a spate of illness. <BR /> <BR />This Friday and Saturday, those who attend the Ballymoney show will enjoy a really good show, as will those who attend the Ballymena show on Saturday 15 June. In the farming community, however, there are many stresses and strains: the isolation of the work and the associated loneliness; worries about the crop and livestock; the risks and dangers on the farm; and stress about the weather. All have an impact on the mental health not only of the farmer who works the land but of the wider family. <BR /> <BR />Today, in the week before the Ballymoney show, I want to raise awareness about mental health in our farming communities. No matter where you are, there is the same stress and strain.”
“<BR /> <BR />Having said all that, I support the fact that live links can be used. They can help to reduce delays and speed up justice and can help to lessen the enormous burden on everyone involved in the judicial system, in particular the victims of crime.”
“I am glad that the Department of Justice is bringing forward bespoke legislation, albeit in a wider justice Bill. I have concerns about that, and I hope that the Minister will be able to address some of them. The fact that it is part of a wider Bill might mean that the Executive will have to take more time to look at it, and that will mean that the Committee will take longer to scrutinise it. That means that things could change in the wider piece. I ask this respectfully of the Minister: would it not have been better to have a bespoke SL1 for this one provision, which could have been moved quicker, as the Department of Finance has done with regard to the registration of deaths and stillbirths? Could that have been an option for her, and might it still be an option, especially if her wider Bill gets bogged down in some way?”
“That is to be welcomed, because that is the way that it should have been done in the first place. They are good ideas that this legislature — the Executive and the Assembly — should pick up and run with anyhow.”
“We would like to get that Act removed as quickly as possible. I am glad that the Justice Committee has applied pressure on the Department over that, just as the Finance Committee has applied pressure on the Finance Department. I praise the work of the Departments of Finance and Justice: they now know that they must now move on and have bespoke regulations and law. <BR /> <BR />The Finance Minister brought forward SL1s, which will come online in September, to have bespoke legislation for the registration of deaths and stillbirths.”
“<BR /> <BR />I do not think that anyone in the House could argue against this statutory rule. We should all support the rule and the provisions that it lays out. However, it is nearly by default that this really good advancement has been progressed. The vehicle that is being is used for this is the Coronavirus Act 2020. In my eyes, and the eyes of many of the public, that legislation is horrendous and harmful. These provisions are connected to the harmful and horrendous restrictions of the Coronavirus Act 2020 and the undemocratic nature of it all. That Act placed the Assembly in a zombie zone, where the Health Minister, in particular, had the power to dream up provisions in his sleep, have them drawn up in the morning and enforced in the evening. That is the stigma that is attached to the vehicle that is the Coronavirus Act 2020.”
“I rise on behalf of my party. Our justice spokesperson — the Justice Committee Chairperson — is not available today. I speak on behalf of the party, in her absence. <BR /> <BR />I have had experience on the Justice Committee: pushing, fighting, scrapping and enquiring about the modernisation of our court systems. To me, this is an absolute no-brainer. The Assembly and the Executive absolutely could and should have been pushing for this provision, maybe 10 years ago. It would have been seen as a very good idea then, not only to modernise the courts but to halt the delay in justice and speed it up. We know that justice delayed is justice denied. Many people suffer needlessly through a court process because of the lack of speed in our justice system.”