Paul Frew
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for that intervention. Nevertheless, there are concerns that I want to address. The Minister and the departmental officials will know that, even from the range of questions that I have asked. We need to make sure that we get the balance correct.”
“In the written and oral evidence received then, the Committee was advised of potential amendments that the Minister may table at Consideration Stage, including an amendment to remove the commissioner that is being considered in liaison with OLC.”
“That in itself causes some victims and witnesses bother, because they are in a system that they are not part of, which means that they do not get the support that they require. That can sometimes leave them feeling retraumatised, as though they have been put through the wringer again.”
“The Bill makes provision to offer those protections and provide clarity to victims that they do not have to face their perpetrator in court. <BR /> <BR />Members asked questions about a range of matters, including the independence of the office, the ability to review the performance of any future commissioner, the costs of establishing th…”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention. She was absolutely right to take that action, as it means that victims' voices are right at the heart of the matters under discussion. It is now obvious to us that that should have been done years ago, but it is good that it is being done now.”
“Officials explained that the Bill would legislate on the disclosure regime not to prevent an application for disclosure but to set out a process whereby the defence would have to show the relevance of the information that it was requesting. That is an important protection.”
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“They will create nothing other than a salami-slicing of Departments, when we face some of the most challenging fiscal pressures that we have ever faced. <BR /> <BR />The amount of day-to-day funding available to the Northern Ireland Executive in 2026-27 will generate unprecedented pressures. The Executive will face difficult choices about efficiencies, and it is time for decisions. That underlines the urgent need to accelerate the transformation of public services so that they are affordable now and in the future, yet I see nothing in the blue pages of the Bill that will lead to that transformation. It is not a matter of allocating a token £5 million here and £7 million there; we need to transform our public services completely to ensure that, when people pay their taxes and their rates, they get value for money.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. I look at all amendments with great interest. As the Member knows, I love amendments to Bills, especially miscellaneous Bills. I look forward to the year ahead — I am probably the only MLA who looks forward to the final year of a mandate — because I see opportunities to amend Bills. A Justice Bill is coming soon; we will not talk about it now. <BR /> <BR />The important thing about the Budget Bill, considering last year, next year and the next three years, is that, if it is not aligned with a programme, it will go nowhere. With no strategic footing for it — no strategic direction whatever — the Finance Minister becomes a bean counter, and he hands his beans out. I have this message for the Finance Minister: those beans are not magic beans.”
“The Member makes a valid point. I agree that, if a report is pending, it should be released. I can tell you now, however, that any report released by any Minister in the Executive will sit on the shelf if it is not funded appropriately.”
“It is thankless, but our prison officers do tremendous work in keeping us all safer. Is that not one of the priorities in the Northern Ireland Executive's Programme for Government? <BR /> <BR />That brings me to my next point: where in this Budget and over the past year have we seen alignment with the Programme for Government?”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. He makes a valid point. During my time on the Justice Committee in this mandate and the 2016 mandate, not only as Chair but as a member, I have visited prisons and spoken to prison officers. I have seen the pressure that they are under. I also saw the tremendous work that they do to keep the prison population safe and to rehabilitate. It is crucial work, but it is thankless and is not really that popular. If you were to ask the population whether it would rather see a brand new hospital or a brand new prison, there would only ever be one answer. However, it is up to the Justice Minister to inform not only the population but the Executive where that spend needs to go. A lot of work is done in our prisons by our prison officers that goes unseen.”
“It is affecting the day-to-day running of our justice system and what cases are taken forward. <BR /> <BR />I come on to police numbers. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the lack of an establishment figure for the police is creating a risk to security. To ensure that the population is kept safe, we need our PSNI to be fully funded up to the establishment figure and above.”
“People now feel that they have the ability and confidence to come forward to report crimes of that very serious nature that have been committed against them and that they can then seek justice. For so long, they did not have the confidence to come forward. Their doing so, however, results in a cost to policing, to the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) and to the court and judicial systems. The increase in the number of sexual offence cases is not being funded appropriately to meet demand, to keep us all safe and to ensure that people can get justice. <BR /> <BR />Our prison population has increased by over 20%. There are so many more people spending time on remand awaiting the outcome of their case. Again, that may in part be down to the influx of sexual crime cases.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. He makes a valid point about joined-up government. Can we be really sure that the money that goes to TEO before filtering down to councils is being spent appropriately and profitably to ensure that we protect women and girls properly? That is a question for the Finance Minister. I doubt that he will be able to answer it, because he is so far removed from the different stages of that funding. That is why we need to see better Executive funding and to work together to see an end to the silo approach. Instead, we need to work together to ensure that the money that we spend is spent appropriately. I will come on to that in a moment. <BR /> <BR />We have also seen a wave of court cases for sexual offences. It is very welcome that such cases, some of which are historical cases, are coming to the fore.”
“It is also increasing as a result of the Assembly's work and the Executive's decisions. The work that has been undertaken to end violence against women and girls is very welcome, but it needs to be funded. The Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 and the Protection from Stalking Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 were very welcome. Those pieces of legislation were groundbreaking. I welcomed them. I was all over them. I worked with the Minister and the Department on them. I amended them. They have, however, led to an increase in demand, and that demand has not been funded. <BR /> <BR />The wave —.”
“The Department advises that that is an estimate based on assumptions about take-up rates of a universal offer settlement and legal fees. The Committee understands, however, that there are still test cases ongoing that may impact on the final cost of the settlement. <BR /> <BR />Those are far from being the only pressures that the Department of Justice will face in the coming year and in the years thereafter. It is clear that its budget position will be challenging. The Committee will continue to monitor the situation, and we expect to be kept fully informed as the years progress. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak as a private Member and as the DUP spokesperson for justice. It is clear that justice is demand-led and that that demand is increasing. Why is it increasing, however? It is increasing to ensure that we remain safe.”
“The Minister has also advised that there is an annual shortfall in capital funding of £150 million, including for the next financial year, which, she advises, will severely restrict plans to transform and modernise the justice estate. One positive from the draft Budget is that it includes an allocation of £133 million for PSNI workforce recovery costs, which includes £25·8 million in the coming year. The Minister advises, however, that that will be of limited value as there will still be a significant shortfall in the essential funding needed by the PSNI to meet existing staff costs and running costs. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned the £119 million of funding agreed by the Executive for the PSNI data breach, which has been allocated for 2026-27.”
“As part of its scrutiny of the draft multi-year Budget, the Committee asked the Minister and the Department's non-departmental public bodies for their views on the proposed Budget and its implications for their work. The responses have not made for positive reading for the Committee. I will not go into detail on the responses at this time; that is a debate for another day. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to the year ahead, the Minister has stated that the indicative allocation will leave the Department facing pressures of £101 million. While the shortfall is less than in the subsequent years covered by the proposed Budget, the Minister has informed the Committee that it is difficult to see how the Department could live within its resource budgets over the next three years.”
“The House will also be aware that the Executive agreed to ring-fence £119 million to compensate PSNI officers and staff as a result of the 2023 data breach. Again, that agreement was very welcome, as that compensation could not have been met from the existing departmental or PSNI budgets. <BR /> <BR />Concerns remain, however, about the other exceptional pressures that have been carried forward to the multi-year Budget, and I will turn to them briefly. Whilst a multi-year Budget has been something that the Department, its non-departmental public bodies and other justice partners have been asking to receive for many years, that Budget has to be sufficient to meet the ongoing needs, otherwise severe pressures will remain.”
“Members will know that the number of PSNI officers and staff has fallen to its lowest level. A workforce recovery plan is in place to restore officer numbers to 7,000 and staff numbers to over 2,500 over a three-year period, and it is important that that plan is funded and supported. The receipt of £7 million towards the recovery plan in December was therefore welcome, allowing recruitment and rebuilding to proceed. The Department also received £4·6 million to meet the PSNI pay award. The Committee was advised that the allocations in December, along with easements and cost reductions that had been identified, meant that the Department was projected to manage its pressures and live within its resource budget for 2025-26.”
“<BR /> <BR />At June monitoring, the non-ring-fenced resource pressures facing the Department stood at £31·7 million. Bids were submitted to cover PSNI workforce recovery; increased employer National Insurance costs; ill-health retirement costs; legacy inquest costs; legal aid pressures related to increased fee rates; and Northern Ireland Prison Service pressures relating to the increased prison population. An additional bid for £5 million was submitted in relation to policing the public disorder in June. The Department received that £5 million for policing the disorder, whilst the remainder of its non-ring-fenced resource bids were not met. <BR /> <BR />The Executive agreed that the Department would be given first call on up to £7 million in future monitoring rounds towards the bid for PSNI workforce recovery.”
“The Department also anticipated exceptional pressures of £227 million relating to the settlement of the PSNI data breach, holiday pay and McCloud that it advised were not affordable under the Budget settlement in any circumstances. The capital allocation of £100 million also represented a significant shortfall against the £146·3 million of capital funding bids submitted by the Department. <BR /> <BR />At the time when the Budget was agreed, indicative allocations for the Department, which were agreed by the Executive for allocation at June monitoring, were £5 million for the safer communities initiative, which is a Programme for Government commitment; £4·7 million for increased employer National Insurance contribution costs; and £0·6 million for the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund towards judicial salaries.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department of Justice's opening budget allocation for 2025-26 was £1,415 million of resource DEL and £100 million of capital DEL. The resource funding included a general allocation of £137·7 million — £135·8 million general allocation and an earmarked allocation of £1·9 million for judicial salaries — as well as funding for the Executive programme on paramilitarism and organised crime of £16 million, security funding for the PSNI of £37·8 million and transformation funding of £5·4 million. The opening baseline represented a 10·9% increase in non-ring-fenced DEL from the previous year. While that was undoubtedly welcome, given that it was the Department's largest-ever budget settlement, the Department nonetheless began the financial year with stabilisation pressures in the region of £44 million.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak as Chairperson of the Committee for Justice on the Budget Bill. The Committee for Justice has scrutinised the Department of Justice's budget through regular oral and written briefings and updates throughout the past financial year, with the most recent session happening just last week. The recurring theme in all the briefings has been the historical underfunding of the Department, which is seeing pressures building right across the justice system. Members will be fully aware from previous financial debates that the Department of Justice's budget is mainly demand-led. The majority of its resource allocation is taken up by funding for the PSNI and our prisons, spending on courts and tribunals, and legal aid expenditure. Demand in those areas shows no sign of slowing down; instead, it is increasing.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given the rainfall, will the Minister grant flexibility to the farming community this year to allow them to manage through this period of weather and manage their own land?”
“The Mitchell family is only one family caught up in the delay; there are many more who do not know when their trial will start or how they can prepare for it when they do not know a date. It is really important that we come together to find a resolution to the delay. <BR /> <BR />I have sympathy for the Criminal Bar Association; it has warned for so many years about the stress, strains and issues that barristers have been crying out about. It feels as though the Department has not been listening. I appeal to the Justice Minister to meet the CBA, get around the table and resolve the situation for all the families who have been caught up in such heinous crimes.”
“I thank all the elected representatives for coming together. I also thank the Justice Minister for meeting, along with Sian Mulholland, the Mitchell family last week. The family was really thankful for and appreciative of the Minister taking the time to go and hear their story and about how the delay was having a massive impact on their health. I thank, and give credit to, the Justice Minister for that meeting. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the resumption of talks between the Department of Justice and the Criminal Bar Association and the clear commitment to continue that engagement into this week. It is vital that heads come together to resolve the strike action and stop the delay in criminal court cases.”
“There is good news and an answer to prayer in that we found out today that the trial for the murder of Chloe Mitchell is scheduled to start on 9 March. I welcome the exemption of the upcoming trial relating to Chloe's murder. I spoke recently to Chloe's father, George, and I know how much that decision will mean to the wider family. It is right that their search for justice is not further delayed. I know what that family has gone through, trying to prepare for a trial for the murder of their daughter and sister without knowing a start date. <BR /> <BR />I place on record my thanks for the collegiate and combined work of all the elected representatives of North Antrim. We came together to help a family in need and were able to deliver results. That speaks volumes for the work that we can do in our constituencies and in this place.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He rightly states that the motion has consequences and actions, one of which is that the Assembly should write to the UK Secretary of State and the Irish Republic Government. Should it be reflected in that letter that the House was divided when it voted on the motion?”
“— when we should be fixing potholes, our health service and everything that goes with it.”
“The SDLP's former leader breached the law when he walked down a street illegally and has accepted a caution for that. Of course, the only Minister in this place who has been found guilty in a court of law for religious discrimination against a Protestant — or anyone, for that matter — is Conor Murphy of Sinn Féin. Listen to the hypocrisy, and people will know who in this place is wasting time —”
“<BR /> <BR />We hear from people who line up hypocritically to take a dig at Gordon Lyons for doing what the police asked him to do: to try to calm people down and to put out factual information about there being nobody sheltering in that facility. Here we have a commissioner who believed Michelle O'Neill when she said that she did not see the sex offender in the Great Hall but did not believe Gordon Lyons. Gerry Carroll was investigated as an MLA. As an MLA, he stated, "Victory to the Palestinian resistance", with two clenched fists. When did he do that? On the day of the Hamas attacks. The commissioner believed Gerry Carroll when he said, "Oh, I just woke up; I was rubbing my eyes". In 2021,the SDLP called for the sacking of nurses and healthcare workers in a complete breach of their human rights, yet nothing was done.”
“The Member makes a valid point. That means that the commissioner has been inconsistent on those issues. That is why we need reform of the standards process. We also need to ensure that Ministers are afforded the same protection as MLAs and are adjudicated on by a panel of their peers, as every MLA can be. Not having that is a loss. It is a slight that we need to rectify. We have a commissioner — one person, no matter who they are — who produces a deeply flawed report, and the only other place it can be aired is the Chamber, which is a political arena. That is wrong and unfair and is not natural justice.”
“When is a Minister acting in his professional capacity as a Minister with regard to his ministerial office and duties? And when is he acting as an MLA in his constituency office, helping his constituents, working for the people of East Antrim, working to provide facilities to keep people safe, working with the local police commander —?”
“I would have expected Gordon Lyons to sit up and take notice of that and to try to do all that he could to prevent damage to life, limb and the built form. That is exactly what Gordon Lyons did that day when, two hours later, he put out a factual post to say that the people who had been sheltering there the night before were no longer there, so there would be no need to have a protest at the focal point — the leisure centre — which was being occupied by people from Larne and other areas who were utilising the facilities that Larne has to offer. What is wrong with that? <BR /> <BR />Gordon Lyons was acting as MLA for East Antrim and even stated that in his post. The first issue that we need to deal with is why the commissioner decided to investigate him under the ministerial code. There are two fundamental questions.”
“I oppose the motion, because it is absolutely nothing but political posturing. This has been a hypocritical debate. Like Sian Mulholland, I was on the ground in that period, along with other elected representatives from most parties. We saw the damage that was being done. We witnessed the violence and the pain, the hurt and the suffering of the victims as they fled their homes, with many of them concerned for their safety and lives. I know what it was like in that pressurised period. Most of the elected representatives who were on the ground got little sleep. Gordon Lyons would also have known that. The PSNI contacted his constituency office and told one of his staff members that it was really concerned about intelligence about a riot, a protest and violence at Larne Leisure Centre.”
“I warned, back in 2020-21, about the damage that lockdown philosophy would do to businesses and employment. Alas, that has now come true. Lockdown philosophy caused inflation. It caused prices and the cost of stock to go up; it meant that people shopped more online because they could not get out to the shops; and people were paid 80% of their wages for doing nothing and staying at home. There is a price to pay for that, and, unfortunately, the Ballymena folk, the McKillens store and Wyse Byse, along with all the staff who will now have to look for other employment, have had to pay it.”
“I rise with regrets to lament the loss of McKillens department store on Church Street, Ballymena, straight after the loss of Wyse Byse, another family-run business in the heart of the town. These are serious times. I feel shock but also gratitude to the McKillen family for serving the people not only of the town of Ballymena but of the wider County Antrim hinterland for so long. I am grateful to the staff, some of whom have worked in McKillens all their working life. It will be such a blow to that family-run business that those loyal staff members will now lose their jobs in the heart of a town that they love so much. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly and, more so, the Executive need to take a good look at the cost of doing business, especially in the retail world.”
“The breach has cost taxpayers and ratepayers £119 million, but think of the cost for officers and their families having to move home, move area and move station. They have had upset and upheaval, and they have to constantly look over their shoulder and always be careful. That applies to the police officer and their 10-year-old son or daughter. <BR /> <BR />It is up to the Justice Minister to make sure that we in the House, in particular, police officers and the public alike all have confidence in the justice system. I call on the Justice Minister to reinstate confidence in the justice system, which is probably at its lowest ebb. That is on the Justice Minister. The buck stops with the Justice Minister and no one else.”
“Mr Speaker, thank you for your grace this morning. <BR /> <BR />The PSNI data breach in 2023 was deeply concerning and still causes massive distress to those affected and, of course, their families. The breach has added an additional level of threat to all police officers who still need to utilise the utmost vigilance because of an evil and sophisticated terrorist threat. There must be robust safeguards in place across all parts of the justice system to ensure that lessons have been learned and that officers' safety is never inadvertently compromised. We in the Chamber, the public and serving and retired police officers need to be assured that appropriate procedures are being followed and that any necessary changes are made to prevent a recurrence.”
“I said in my contribution that we rely too much on agency staff. The Member is therefore in agreement with my party more than he thinks or would like to admit.”
“It goes to the heart of the matter. What is the Finance Minister doing to resolve the issue, to lead the Civil Service and to reform it into something that is much more effective and much more efficient for our people?”
“I am not suggesting for one moment that we temporarily promote everybody working in the public sector and that that will solve the issue of sickness or bring reform. However, my question looks at the role that the Finance Minister has in fixing that problem because, in his answer to me, when I asked about any analysis that had been carried out, he said:”
“No one here would begrudge people time off for sickness — of course not. However, the difference between the public sector and the private sector is stark. That cannot be by chance. There has to be a look at why more people take more sickness days off in the public sector than in the private sector. Most politicians do not want to grapple with that; of course they do not. It is not a popular message. We do not want people to be going off sick, but we also need to look at it. <BR /> <BR />I asked this question, which was answered by the Minister on 21 January 2025:”
“Nearly 5,500 vacant posts have been declared by the Civil Service since 31 March 2025. There is a greater reliance on temporary staff: nearly 5,000 agency workers were employed as of 1 April 2025, which was more than double the number recorded in April 2019. There is something going wrong there. I know that having temporary staff can sometimes mean that there is more flexibility and mobility not only for the Civil Service but for those staff. However, there are also real weaknesses for people who are on temporary contracts. It is important that those hard-working people get the resilience and support that they need. In order to pay for mortgages and other things, you need a well-grounded job or place of employment. That is really important. <BR /> <BR />The other issue is sickness levels.”
“The report also assessed progress against the 12 recommendations in the Public Accounts Committee's report on the Civil Service, which was published in 2021. Again, the trends are similar: of those 12 recommendations, the Audit Office report concluded, just five had been achieved, five had been partially achieved and two had not been achieved. Progress has been limited. <BR /> <BR />Our motion calls on the Minister of Finance to:”
“As the third-largest employer in Northern Ireland after the Departments of Health and Education, all of which are funded from the public purse, there must be ongoing close scrutiny and review of the Civil Service to ensure good value for money and to increase funding for front-line public services. Time and again, reviews of the Northern Ireland Civil Service have highlighted problems with efficiency and the slow pace of reform that need attention. <BR /> <BR />We welcome the publication last week of the Audit Office report, 'Leading and Resourcing the Northern Ireland Civil Service'. The report assesses progress against the 23 recommendations from a 2020 Audit Office report and concludes that just five have been achieved, 13 have been partially achieved and five have not been achieved.”
“I thank the Finance Minister for his answer. Will he assure the House that he will ensure that the three-year Budget is not simply three one-year Budgets? How will the three-year Budget, if planned correctly, diminish costs and delays and speed up the construction industry?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. While she is fighting to reform the Civil Service and government, will she come down to North Antrim to see at first hand how community and voluntary groups work to assist people in the community? Perhaps government could take a leaf out of their book.”
“<BR /> <BR />At its meeting on 15 January 2026, the Committee noted that the legislative consent memorandum and draft LCM had been laid two days earlier. Having considered all the written and oral evidence received, the Committee agreed on 22 January 2026 that it was content with the proposal to extend the further provisions in the Crime and Policing Bill to Northern Ireland by way of the second legislative consent motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />More recently, at its meeting on 20 November, the Committee noted two further updates from the Department on the second LCM. In the first of those, the Committee was informed that the measures to strengthen age-verification requirements for the online sale and delivery of knives and crossbows would not now be included, as the Opposition at Westminster had indicated that they would oppose the amendments, as they link the power to specify other methods of age verification with the Government's plan for a digital ID scheme. The other update was to advise that the measure to expand the lawful purposes for which the police can access the DVLA driving licence database, which had been removed from the first LCM, would now be included in the second LCM, following a revised approach by the Home Office.”
“<BR /> <BR />In response, the Committee wrote to ask whether the Department had considered including the necessary provisions in the Justice Bill or any other primary legislation that it intends to bring forward within the Assembly mandate. Members welcomed the response advising of the Minister's intention to propose an amendment to make provisions for Northern Ireland policing barred and advisory lists for all law enforcement bodies in Northern Ireland. I know that concerns have been voiced about the number of planned amendments to the Justice Bill. However, that is a serious matter and, depending on the circumstances, could be a safeguarding risk. The Committee therefore felt it sufficiently important to suggest the inclusion of barred and advisory lists in the Justice Bill by way of amendment in order to close that gap.”
“<BR /> <BR />At its meeting on 9 October, the Committee considered an update that included notice of the Minister's intention to extend two further measures to Northern Ireland that related to creating a statutory defence for persons testing AI for CSA material, extreme pornography and non-consensual intimate image abuse and criminalising the possession, distribution or publication of pornography depicting strangulation and suffocation. The Committee was disappointed and concerned to also be informed in that update that, given the volume of amendments that needed to be drafted for the Lords Committee Stage, it was now not possible to draft clauses to create a barred and advisory list for the PSNI.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the discussions on barred and advisory lists, members heard that the lists would be made only for the PSNI and not for other relevant bodies such as the Northern Ireland Policing Board, the Police Ombudsman, the airport police and the Belfast harbour police, which had indicated their desire to be included. Members expressed concerns about the potential gap that could be exploited in not extending those provisions more extensively.”
“In response to members' questions, officials advised that guidance would be developed and awareness-raising taken into account as part of the implementation plans for the new offences created by the provisions relating to child criminal exploitation, the use of AI models to produce child sexual abuse materials and child abduction. The Committee was also advised at that stage that the Home Office would take the lead in drafting the necessary code of practice on access to remotely stored electronic data. We were told that the code of practice would not be in place before the LCM was required to be agreed by the Assembly but that the powers would not be commenced until the code was agreed.”
“Departmental officials in attendance at that meeting indicated that, while the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission had advised that provisions relating to access to remotely stored electronic data could interfere with article 8 rights, that could be permissible for a particular purpose with legitimate aims and that a code of practice to include necessary safeguards would be put in place before the powers were commenced. <BR /> <BR />The Committee drew the second LCM to the attention of the Committee for Health, given that the provision for the removal of the supervision exemption from the definition of regulated activity falls within the policy responsibility of the Department of Health. <BR /> <BR />On 11 September 2025, departmental officials provided oral evidence on the second LCM.”