Paul Frew
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for that intervention. Nevertheless, there are concerns that I want to address. The Minister and the departmental officials will know that, even from the range of questions that I have asked. We need to make sure that we get the balance correct.”
“In the written and oral evidence received then, the Committee was advised of potential amendments that the Minister may table at Consideration Stage, including an amendment to remove the commissioner that is being considered in liaison with OLC.”
“That in itself causes some victims and witnesses bother, because they are in a system that they are not part of, which means that they do not get the support that they require. That can sometimes leave them feeling retraumatised, as though they have been put through the wringer again.”
“The Bill makes provision to offer those protections and provide clarity to victims that they do not have to face their perpetrator in court. <BR /> <BR />Members asked questions about a range of matters, including the independence of the office, the ability to review the performance of any future commissioner, the costs of establishing th…”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention. She was absolutely right to take that action, as it means that victims' voices are right at the heart of the matters under discussion. It is now obvious to us that that should have been done years ago, but it is good that it is being done now.”
“Officials explained that the Bill would legislate on the disclosure regime not to prevent an application for disclosure but to set out a process whereby the defence would have to show the relevance of the information that it was requesting. That is an important protection.”
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“I wish Peter Weir, who is my colleague and friend, all the best, although he has left the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />In the light of the recent whistle-blower investigation in the 'British Medical Journal' that revealed evidence of falsifying data in pivotal Pfizer COVID vaccine trials, the Health Minister should make a statement to the House on the action he can take to assuage the concerns of people who have taken the Pfizer vaccine. <BR /> <BR />I applauded the vaccine roll-out, but, somewhere along the way, I have witnessed the narrative change from one of promotion and encouragement to one of bullying and coercion, not least with the threats of mandatory vaccine and domestic COVID vaccine certification, that has created hesitancy and a deep distrust of Governments.”
“Something must change to give those people — those law-abiding people who just happen to need accommodation — the chance of a new, safe and secure home in a safe environment. I am not seeing that for the people whom I represent.”
“There is something fundamentally flawed in our housing allocation system whereby, when we build a new block of social houses — flats, apartments or whatever they may be — we allocate those homes all at once, take the top names from the list and move everyone in at the same time. It is not an easy subject to talk about, but I see the ramifications of that daily. If you move someone off the top of the list into a settled area, the chances are that that person will settle. If you move 30, 40 or 50 families or people into a brand new complex, in many cases, there will be hell to pay for years until that community settles down. We all know the reasons for that. <BR /> <BR />When I speak to housing associations and the Housing Executive, they all tell me the same thing: they are sick to the back teeth of protests about how houses are allocated.”
“Mark Durkan, who moved the motion, said that it would not be an attack on anyone. To be fair, I agree with him in that regard. Housing is such a fundamental issue that it should be an Executive-wide issue and should be part of the Programme for Government. There are so many items and issues that impinge on housing, not least the water and sewerage capacity problem that we all face at present. <BR /> <BR />I want to talk about the positives in my constituency of North Antrim, particularly Ballymena, where, over the last number of years, we have seen advancements in brownfield sites in our town centre and have had social housing built. However, that leads to another problem that affects people's standard of living when they move into the houses.”
“It is good, especially in the short term, that we can give more money to health so that people who use the health service get the service that they deserve, but what about spending money to keep people out of hospital? What about investing in people's welfare to make sure that they remain healthy so that they do not need the health service at that acute end? It sounds novel. We all talk about it, but do we do anything about it and do we really see action? It is hard to prove the value for money of preventative spend, but that does not mean that it is not worthwhile. <BR /> <BR />We need to get to the point where we serve people's interests best by spending money up front. One way to do that is to invest in housing and construction. There needs to be a concerted effort to do that. There is absolutely no doubt about that.”
“Housing is a fundamental. Where else can we go for safety if we cannot go home? There is an issue that every MLA in this place, either in the Chamber at the minute or outside it, must see when they are out and about meeting constituents and knocking doors, and that is the state of some of our housing. If you do not see that, you are spending too much time here. I see a stock that is deteriorating year in, year out. There have been positives. We can all talk about positives in our areas, and that is good, but so many are still left homeless because their home is not fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />We talk a lot here about supporting health and spending on health.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I only want to illustrate that that will not be a price blip; it will be part of a sustained and seismic change in the way that we look at energy and the cost of energy for the foreseeable future, probably going into years.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I hear what she says about systems. Does she recognise that, in the Republic of Ireland, householders and domestic customers supplement, if you like, the bills of large energy users, whereas, in the UK, it is the other way round, and, in Northern Ireland, the arrangements are unbiased?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She raises valid points about the way forward with heat pumps and other things, but everything that seems to be a solution at this point will increase electricity demand — heat pumps, electric vehicles and everything that goes with them — so we need to get the generation mix correct. Does the Member agree that wind will not cut it on its own, so we are on the island philosophy that a colleague across the way referred to of tidal and hydro probably being the way to go?”
“Does the Member agree that the regulator is probably underfunded and lacks capacity and should be given more support to regulate the people and organisations that are to blame for some of those issues and could well be the cause of blackouts this winter?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He is quite right that we have to look at the energy strategy. That is the long-term plan. However, we need more than wind power. When the wind stops blowing, as it did in the summer, it puts our generation mix into very dire straits. Therefore, when we talk about renewable energy, it has to be about more than just wind.”
“It might be blackouts or no electricity at all, and the fault and blame for that lie squarely and fully at the door of EirGrid, which has not planned appropriately, with all its knowledge and capacity, for the generation of electricity this winter, next winter, the winter after that and the winter after that again. People will die because of rising costs. People will potentially die because of blackouts. That is unforgivable.”
“Yes, that is my point, and I thank the Member for making it. Stop playing politics with the most vulnerable people's lives and let us get to the matter at hand, which is rising energy costs that will affect people's lives and will kill people this winter. This is a very serious issue in the short term because people will die, so we need something to be parachuted in. It could be a very blunt instrument, and I suspect that it will be given the short-termism that we need to effect this change. We need to get people the support and the money — it is a financial necessity — that they will require to pay for fuel to heat their homes this winter. <BR /> <BR />There is also a long-term aspect. It might not only be rising costs that kill people.”
“I am loath to get into the very ugly debate that has been going on between those two parties around who is to blame for universal credit, but let me tell you this: both parties are playing politics on this. We know from the Committee meeting that, even if the £55 million had been granted, there was no ability to draw that money down. There had to be a further bid in January. Both those parties are playing politics with the most vulnerable people's lives, and it is ugly and wrong. You need to catch a grip of yourselves.”
“Yes, I will, although I will not get an extra minute.”
“I thank the Member for clarifying that and for getting me the extra minute. He is 100% right.”
“It is as stark as that. If we cannot do something here in the short term, as we did last year with COVID, we will fail those people and their families.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is a short-term issue here, but there is also a long-term policy issue, which we have failed to grapple with for many, many years. We have hundreds of excess winter deaths every single year. That is why it is life and death, and it is incumbent on the Assembly, the Executive and the Communities Minister, whose remit includes fuel poverty, to ensure that the most vulnerable in our society survive this winter. That is how stark the problem is. <BR /> <BR />It is a global problem, geopolitically driven by Russia and China for various reasons, and the shortage of stock and gas, which has led to a rise in prices, affects us disproportionately because of our mix with regard to generating energy. It is a local problem, and the fact is that our neighbours, whom we live beside every day, may not survive the winter.”
“I thank the Members who brought the motion. The Member who moved it knows that I am passionate about energy. Some would say — he might say — that I am an anorak when it comes to energy. <BR /> <BR />Why am I so passionate about energy? It is simply because energy policy is a life or death policy. There are very few policies that we would grapple with in the Assembly that are so fundamentally serious. I agree with John O'Dowd when he says that this will affect every person in this country. I also agree with John O'Dowd on the financial scale of the problem. Where I part from his belief is that the Assembly cannot just shirk its responsibility and say, "This problem has to be solved by our sovereign Government".”
“— and strive to achieve it. I support reform, and so does my party.”
“No, I will not give way. The proposer of the motion did not give way. That is bad form, but I feel that it then has to be consistent throughout. <BR /> <BR />My party said that in 2011. The Assembly has to improve. We have to look now at what we can do in a short time. The problem that I see with the reform that we require and that the proposer requires is that it is a race against time in this mandate. There are practical problems with that time. There is so much legislation that we need to pass for the benefit of our people, but that does not mean that we should not explore it —”
“If we want to deliver positive change for people, why should we then close our ears and turn our faces away from positive change and reform in the Executive and the Assembly? <BR /> <BR />I speak knowing that the Assembly has given up its power with regard to the health regulations. It should look at getting that power back, because power should not reside at Executive level; power should reside in the elected Assembly or Parliament. We should look at that and concentrate our minds on it. <BR /> <BR />Let me make it clear: the DUP is up for reform; in fact, we have fought for reform for decades. I will read from the 2011 Assembly election manifesto:”
“That just should not be the case. However, it is the case that, sometimes, a Government need to fall if they are not fit for purpose. That is just the agility that a democracy should have on its menu. That does not scare me one bit. I am all for reform. I am all for the exploration of reform in a collegiate way to make things better. <BR /> <BR />That being said, I understand the travels that we have taken and embarked on. I know that, for some people, it is sensitive. For some people, it is the Good Friday Agreement or nothing. Some will cherry-pick when a political opportunity arises. That has been the case even for the parties that supported the Good Friday Agreement. We should always strive to deliver positive change for people.”
“Whilst I have joined the Assembly and Executive Review Committee only recently — I think that I have attended only one meeting — I certainly see the merit in it and the potential that I will enjoy being on that Committee, because it looks to reform. For many years, I have spoken in the House — most recently, of course, since we have come back — about the need to reform how we do things and the fact that we need to do things better collectively, individually and with regard to how systems work. We need to do things better, because we fail our people when the apparatus is not fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />One thing that I have learnt during my time in politics is that democracy is fragile but must also be agile. It should not be the case that one party can leave an Executive or Government and bring down an Assembly or Parliament.”
“The First Minister tells us that the Health Minister has failed to bring forward suitable evidence to suggest that a domestic COVID certificate system would lead to better health outcomes, even though the Health Minister said that he supports such a system. Has he taken forward any equality impact assessments (EQIAs) of the damage that such a system could cause through discriminating against people, by refusing them entry to services and hospitality venues and refusing them access to goods, with all the horrendous and atrocious harms that that would bring?”
“— no such service was given to Dennis Hutchings.”
“— of the judicial system letting people go because of ill health. I think of many republicans who walked free, yet —”
“They are the people who are left to pick up the pieces of what is a tragedy and an instance of something that should never have taken place. We have seen examples down through the years —”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Hutchings had been investigated before, and there is no clear, compelling new evidence that I can see that justifies his being dragged to Belfast, away from his family, to stand in a courtroom. How unfair. How unfair that a brave soldier who served his country, went where he was sent and was let down many times in that service was let down again by the judicial system and, I have no doubt, by the leaders of the state. <BR /> <BR />My thoughts go out to his family at this time and also to the people who supported him. I think of the likes of Johnny Mercer MP and of our councillors in Mid and East Antrim and Causeway Coast and Glens, who travelled up to meet Dennis and support him in the trial. Of course, however, our thoughts must rest with the family, who are the people left behind.”
“It is regrettable that we must have this Matter of the Day for the sad passing of Dennis Hutchings. I met Dennis only briefly. I uttered a few words to him, and that was it. Dennis reminded me of people whom I have surrounded myself with all my life: strong, hard-working, diligent and compassionate people. He was a soldier who served his country and was, no doubt, let down many times in that service by his superior officers. That is certainly true of the start of the Troubles. Here was a man doing his duty, serving where he was sent. He had no choice in that. Yet years later, this brave soldier, as an old man, was dragged to Belfast to go through what can only be described as a show trial.”
“That was to do with victims' payments, and we all recall that. Will the First Minister give a commitment to the House that he will fight for Northern Ireland, its people and its businesses with regard to the protocol?”
“The last time that the Executive Office was involved in a court case, the judge stated of Sinn Féin:”
“The very fact that we are operating in a vacuum without a Programme for Government or a long-term strategy for the arts and creative industries tells me all that I need to know. Do we really value those industries? If we did, we would have a long-term strategy in place, with long-term targets and a suitable funding package to support those people — those with creative minds — who give us so much pride through everything that they do.”
“It is not just about sitting down and painting or taking photographs all day: they have to sell their wares to make a living. Those people, who had just become self-employed and had no records or bookkeeping from previous years, would have been let down, even with the support packages. That is wrong. <BR /> <BR />We have a Programme for Government so that, when the Executive hit crisis points or pressure points, it weds everything together. It is the Programme for Government that suggests that Departments and Ministers have to work together. Before we came back to this place, I, along with my colleague Paula Bradley, was part of my party's negotiating team on the Programme for Government. Others across the way were also involved in those discussions. We knew how important a Programme for Government was in wedding strategies together.”
“I would like to make a couple of points from a constituency point of view. In recent years, North Antrim lost some of its largest industries. It was at the point of being made redundant that some employees said to themselves that this was their nudge, and they decided to follow their dreams of many years and work hard at photography, artistry or other creative industries. They were following their passion, and it is said that, if you live out your passion in your work, you do not really work a day, but that is not strictly true. Those people had to work really hard to sell, promote and get their wares to market. They had to work unsociable hours. People in the music industry, the arts and so on have to work difficult and antisocial hours. They really have to work hard to sell their wares.”
“For any Executive, there will always be a crisis, there will always be pressures, and there will always be something that they can spend their money on rather than what they should spend it on. It is human nature in politics: there will always be a crisis. In this case, it just happens to have been COVID. Of course, I have my arguments for why the arts and creative industries have been let down badly by some of the actions of the Executive and the Health Minister; actions that put those people into that position. Through reflection over many years, we will learn that, in some cases, those people were treated shabbily and unfairly.”
“I have heard everything that has been said today about funding and the differentials in funding between here and other places close by and, indeed, throughout the British Isles. That should be to our shame.”
“I support the motion, because we value and I value the arts and creative industries. We need to acknowledge their importance and significance, not least because of how they assist in developing a creative mind, inject confidence into people, add to a fulfilled life and enrich all our experiences. They also assist physical and mental health; of that, I have no doubt. The Assembly must therefore recognise how the arts and creative industries assist our people in their way of life and their enrichment. <BR /> <BR />It is all well and good for me to stand up and say that and for the Assembly to pass a motion, but what does it say about the Assembly and the Executive if we do not even have in place a long-term strategy for the arts and creative industries?”
“I agree with the Health Minister. However, it seems that some healthcare workers have yet to receive their £500 payment, especially those in the independent care sector. I ask the Minister to make a statement to the House about when all those healthcare workers will get their £500. Given that they have not received that money, it looks as though they have been forgotten. The Assembly, the Executive and the Health Minister should in no way betray those people by making them feel as though they have been forgotten, considering the amount of work that they do for our loved ones and the most vulnerable.”
“The Health Minister first announced in January that healthcare workers would receive a £500 payment. At that time, the Health Minister stated:”
“<BR /> <BR />However, I am as guilty of this as anyone: do we take the time to walk through those areas to see the beauty, to keep active and to get fresh air? Sometimes we neglect that. Maybe we are just too busy. Even adventure play parks can play a part in getting young people out, getting their minds working and getting them fresh air. Ballycastle forest, Breen native wood, Knocklayde Mountain, the Braid valley and even Slemish Mountain have some smashing walks. You can cycle to all of them and even do trial biking in many of them. We should encourage as many people as possible to be active because, in their prime and in older age, the fitness benefits are immense. You cannot put a price on that, especially with the Health Department struggling at present.”
“<BR /> <BR />I really believe that North Antrim misses a trick. I walk the green glens of Antrim a lot, and there are multiple opportunities to open up and connect further with a wider population and tourism offer. I would love to see the day when that is promoted and more actively sought because some of our best walks are our best-kept secrets, and that should not really be the case. We need to get that out there and show the beauty of this country and its countryside, and the warmth and friendliness of our people because people will travel in order to walk and cycle. We should harness that because that will promote, even in our own populations, a more active sell. The offer of North Antrim includes the green glens of Antrim, the Antrim hills way and some of our glorious and amazing parks, even in our population centres.”
“Getting active, getting outside and getting fitter are key elements that we should have in any Programme for Government because they greatly enrich a person's life. The Member will always be passionate about cycling. I do not cycle, but I do walk. I love the green glens of Antrim, the Antrim hills and the coastal walk. When you are walking up a hill and you meet people, you will always talk to them. You may not have anything in common other than the fact that you are on the side of a mountain, but that is enough. You can make friendships and meet different people through being active and being up a mountain. That is key too. Connectivity for the individual and for the community is key, and greenways, cycling and walking activities do that considerably well, which is why we should promote those.”
“It is hard to quantify such benefits, but there is most definitely a benefit for all people, young and old, in getting out, getting active and getting healthier than they currently are. <BR /> <BR />Our Programme for Government straddles many Departments.”
“I support the Member for North Antrim who secured the Adjournment debate. I thank the Minister for her attendance at this debate on what is, I believe, a very important topic. <BR /> <BR />I agree wholeheartedly with what the Member across the Chamber has said. I will not always say that, but, in this common interest, we are at one and united. That is simply because we value getting outside and being active, and we value what that does for people's physical and mental health. That must be encouraged by all. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right when he says that it is hard to measure that benefit and contain it within a budget line. In a lot of cases, Ministers nearly have to take it on trust that their promotion of such things is of benefit, and this Minister is no different.”
“Again, language is important. Terminology is important. I would certainly give way to the Member opposite, and I would expect the same respect to be given back. <BR /> <BR />I simply ask the question. He talks about vaccine certification. Why do we need to spend £10 million on a system when we already have one set up that helps people to travel across the world, especially when we all carry in our wallet a card that proves that we have been vaccinated? Why does he think that we need another electronic certification system for that?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. There is nowhere in my commentary, either today or ever, where the Member could accuse me of being a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist or even an anti-vaxxer. I ask the Member to consider that language. The Minister talked about dog whistles. I might add that that language was atrocious, and I think that the Member should retract that statement.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The two specific actions that I asked the Minister to introduce, particularly around giving the House its place, were about mandatory vaccination and vaccination certificates. Will the Member explain to the House and to me how either having or not having a vaccination certificate will lead to deaths?”
“Will he give the House the opportunity to debate them before he brings them into play?”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I agree with you 100%. Nobody should be sounding dog whistles. I resent that accusation, because what I am doing is simply raising the concerns of my constituents, who have been impacted on by both COVID and the regulations. I did not accuse the Minister of causing harm. I am saying that the regulations and lockdowns cause harm. If people find that hard to hear, surely they are not living in the real world, because lockdowns have had an impact. How could we ever be in a place in which we do not realise that these draconian lockdown measures, which are abnormal, have not have an impact on our people? Really? <BR /> <BR />I will simply ask this question: if the Minister is going to bring in further restrictions for this country, will he please give some sort of indication as to how he will bring them in?”