Paul Frew
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for that intervention. Nevertheless, there are concerns that I want to address. The Minister and the departmental officials will know that, even from the range of questions that I have asked. We need to make sure that we get the balance correct.”
“In the written and oral evidence received then, the Committee was advised of potential amendments that the Minister may table at Consideration Stage, including an amendment to remove the commissioner that is being considered in liaison with OLC.”
“That in itself causes some victims and witnesses bother, because they are in a system that they are not part of, which means that they do not get the support that they require. That can sometimes leave them feeling retraumatised, as though they have been put through the wringer again.”
“The Bill makes provision to offer those protections and provide clarity to victims that they do not have to face their perpetrator in court. <BR /> <BR />Members asked questions about a range of matters, including the independence of the office, the ability to review the performance of any future commissioner, the costs of establishing th…”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention. She was absolutely right to take that action, as it means that victims' voices are right at the heart of the matters under discussion. It is now obvious to us that that should have been done years ago, but it is good that it is being done now.”
“Officials explained that the Bill would legislate on the disclosure regime not to prevent an application for disclosure but to set out a process whereby the defence would have to show the relevance of the information that it was requesting. That is an important protection.”
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“We will strive to do that day in, day out to persuade people of our arguments, persuade them that we are right and persuade them that this is the way to go. I believe that this is the way to go. <BR /> <BR />Savings will be made, but what we really want is efficient and effective government for our people, as they deserve nothing less; we will push and probe and work every day for that to happen. Even the reduction in the names of the Departments is a good thing, as it will help people to understand exactly what those Departments do and what functions they hold. That is something to be positive about because it will help to educate people on where they need to go and what they need to do.”
“It creates silo mentalities and problems when four or five parties are all coming from a different place, all wanting to go to a different place and all occupying a different space. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the reduction in the number of Departments from 12 to nine, which our party has campaigned for ever since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and ever since the institutions have been up and running. We promised the electorate on that day that we would make things better and would repair the damage that was caused by the Good Friday Agreement and the functions of government that were formed in it. We stand here today having completed some of that work and are now moving forward, but we have to recognise that, for that to happen and for progress to be made, we must have agreement from all the parties involved.”
“Of course, some people have not caught up with the previous reorganisations. We spend nearly every day trying to educate people in that regard, because poor old council gets the blame for everything. It is slightly different here, of course, but, nonetheless, it is more important and something that I believe has to happen. <BR /> <BR />When you look at the experience of the last mandate in Westminster, you see that it was hard enough for the coalition Government to function with two parties and all the problems that that led to. Think how much more difficult it is in the Assembly with five parties. It is now four, of course, as one party has walked away. There are four parties in government trying to make decisions, trying to push things forward and trying make things happen.”
“Nonetheless, we are here, and the Committee will be able to scrutinise the transfer of functions order, which will be subordinate legislation but very important and detailed subordinate legislation. <BR /> <BR />The Bill has only three clauses, but three clauses of something that I believe must happen. If you are on the ground, as I am — some of us may not be, but I am on the ground — you will see how the silo mentality works, where it does not work and how it affects the people we represent in the House. Of course, it is fair to say that a good bit of the population blames everything on the council: if there is a pothole in the road, it is the council's fault; if the grass is not cut, it is the council's fault; if there is something wrong with a house, it is the council's fault.”
“I support the Bill's Second Stage. Without incurring the wrath of the Speaker, I will also say that I support the accelerated passage. In the House, we are here to make decisions, and it is unfortunate that, for so many months, parties and politicians here were prevented from making decisions because partners in government did not have the courage to make the hard decisions that make this place tick and make Northern Ireland thrive. I am glad that that impasse has been unblocked and that things will move forward. Of course, I deeply regret that it has happened so late in the day and so near to the end of the mandate that, unfortunately, things have be done in an accelerated and fast way.”
“Those are the issues that we need to get to before we can tackle the real issue of under-reporting, because I believe that our businesses are being let down by the police turning a blind eye to racketeering.”
“How can you blame businesses for under-reporting when they go to the police and the police tell them, "If I were you, I would not push this much further"? When businesses report racketeering that happens not only in our building sites but in our shops, the police say, "Are you sure you want to report this? Are you really sure you want to report this? We won't be able to protect your business in the dead of night".”
“<BR /> <BR />Ballymena also had the first business improvement district, whereby businesses pay into a pot and can do whatever they want with it. A very successful advertisement, featuring the Ballymena Bear, came about as a result of the work of the Ballymena business improvement district. I believe that if it feels the need to turn its attention to crime, that may well be a very good vehicle through which it can see real benefits. <BR />Of course, Ballymena has an excellent CCTV system, the largest council-run CCTV system outside Belfast. That has helped with reassurance and has helped to make customers feel safer, and it has helped businesses to organise and defend themselves against retail theft. <BR /> <BR />In my remaining minute, I want to tackle the issue of under-reporting.”
“Whilst I am very down on PCSPs for trying to deal with issues like this, there are instances where businesses have been involved at the core and have helped themselves. You only have to look at organisations like Ballymena Retailers Against Crime (BRAC), which I know is part of a national movement. Along with other partners, including Ballymena Town Centre Development Ltd, the Chamber of Commerce, Mercury Security Management Ltd, PCSPs and the PSNI, BRAC produced a crime-reduction package that contains advice on counterfeit fraud, retail theft, Internet theft, refund fraud, cybercrime and much more. It was the first of its kind. I know that DOJ used some of it to produce its own retail crime-reduction package, and that document contained an acknowledgement of thanks to Trevor Parker, BRAC's development manager.”
“For retailers, however, any loss of stock will have a devastating impact, especially if they are independent traders with only one or two shops. They are the ones who have to get the stock themselves and return a profit on it. It is all relative in that regard. <BR /> <BR />Whenever the police or PCSPs analyse crime waves — we all have our opinions on PCSPs, and mine is not a very good one — it is clear that it would take only one habitual thief to get out of prison for a short period to create a sharp percentage rise in thefts in any one area. You have to ask, then, whether it is wise to move resources from one aspect of crime to another to fit the needs, because it could well be one or two individuals who are doing it. <BR /> <BR />I would like to speak about some of the initiatives that have been taken.”
“I support the motion. I apologise for not being at the stakeholder event when it was run back in May. <BR /> <BR />I have a lot of sympathy for any retailer or business when it comes to any sort of crime. I think that one of the problems that the PSNI has is that crime can be many things, but so can business. A business could be a farmer trying to hold down cattle, machinery and plant, or it could be a retailer who is trying to keep down the theft of stock. So, this is very wide-ranging and very hard to tackle. <BR /> <BR />When we look at the figures, should we ask whether we are going to equate the theft of a tractor worth £45,000 or more with the theft of a lipstick, lollipop or something of that nature? Those all go into the statistics as single crimes, although there are two different values.”
“What if Northern Ireland had the second most expensive energy costs in Europe? What if we lost thousands of jobs because of that fact? What if you put thousands of people into poverty overnight because they lose their job?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She has that extra minute. I hear what she is saying, appreciate all her arguments, and I am on the same page with a lot of them. However, can she tell the House how a climate Bill for Northern Ireland could make any inroads that we cannot make under the UK Climate Change Act 2008. The deal really has to be done in Paris, with the emitters that are doing most damage — the big five, 10 and 25. Northern Ireland generates 4% of the UK's emissions.”
“— with regards to the Climate Change Act in the UK.”
“— of our businesses behind their back. You will hurt our families even more. We already have rules —”
“No, it is not. How could it be under threat when we are already at 20%? How can you put under threat the 20% that we already generate? If we generate more, that would be great, but not at the cost of crippling our businesses or hurting our agricultural base. These are the people who will help propel Northern Ireland into a better place. Why would we tie their hands behind their back when China will not do what it is told on voluntary arrangements? In fact, China will balk against transparency, especially when India produces more cars and burns more fossil fuel. Why would you tie the hands of Northern Ireland's businesses? I plead with the Minister to encourage, cajole and incentivise but not to tie the hands —”
“That sounds like a pretty decent slice, but almost three quarters of that was from the burning of wood, dung and charcoal in the poorest countries. Wind turbines, solar farms, tidal barriers and geothermal power stations made up just 1·3% between them, and that is globally. Little Northern Ireland produces 20% of its energy through wind. Northern Ireland is punching well above its weight when it comes to the fight against climate change. I plead with the Minister and the House to continue that good work and keep enticing and encouraging our businesses, councils and Departments to do more.”
“Look at Northern Ireland's record on this. <BR /> <BR />The International Energy Agency, a think tank, estimates that 13·5% of the world's primary energy supply was produced from renewable sources in 2013.”
“I thank the Member for that contribution. <BR /> <BR />India and Saudi Arabia — for different reasons, of course — are only two of the countries trying to water down the rules to keep on using fossil fuels. Of course, Canada has withdrawn completely from the Kyoto protocol. China will even resist any transparency that the UK might try and place in an agreement, even a voluntary agreement. We are therefore faced with a difficult position. However, it is a global problem. While I can certainly support the motion and the intentions behind it, I cannot support the amendment, because one thing that we cannot do in Northern Ireland is tie the hands of our farming community and of our business community, which exports and uses transport, and of this region of the UK generally. The UK passed the Climate Change Act 2008, and we are part of that.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. I can be very clear: we see this as a problem, and we see that things have to be done, but we cannot support a climate Bill for Northern Ireland. I will get to that later. <BR /> <BR />Most of the countries at the summit have never agreed, and probably will not agree, legally binding clauses or legislation. The US never ratified the Kyoto treaty from 1997. It is one of the top five emitters in the globe, and it will not ratify Kyoto.”
“Some of the greatest emitters in the world can do a lot more than they have done, especially over the last 25 years.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was about to ask the Member for Mid Ulster whether the Ulster Unionist Party supports a climate Bill for Northern Ireland, but I never got the chance. I will give way if she wishes to answer the question, but if not we will move on. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that the United Nations climate change conference is very important. It makes ambitious global plans to tackle the threat of climate change, and I welcome the Minister's attendance, not only to represent Northern Ireland but as part of the UK delegation. It is very useful, and it will stand him and the Assembly in good stead. There will be more than 190 countries in Paris to try and agree something that they have never been able to agree before. I will welcome any real progress, because countries can do more.”
“The Member makes the point that he wants a nuclear deterrent, but not in his backyard. What nonsense is that?”
“Of course, the Member is talking about a different type of war, which is the terrorist campaign. He is certainly an expert on that. I am glad that the closest that Sinn Féin will ever come to having a say in the defence of our great country is when it is passing information over to its handlers.”
“<BR /> <BR />I see the people who have tabled the motion and I want to ask them — and I will give way — what concern did Sinn Féin have for people's welfare when it defended the actions of the IRA when it exploded bombs — yes, bombs — in the trade and commerce centres of Ballymena and Coleraine? What concern did Sinn Féin have for people's welfare when it looked over Enniskillen's dead? I will give way on that matter.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is a truth that in the Falklands War — this is just one anecdote — when the British forces took, trench by trench and position by position, Argentinian conscripts, they even had to take the boots off the Argentinian dead because their feet were struggling to keep up with the war effort and the Argentinians' boots were better than those that our own service personnel wore. That is a great shame, and it is something that we should all be mindful of in this day and age when we talk about defence spending. It is shameful that the UK has not spent enough on defence over the last number of years.”
“No. I have much to get through; I have so much to say and so little time. I apologise, because I usually would give way. I will see what I am like for time. <BR /> <BR />It is also a great shame on any nation that it would spend billions on missiles but neglect the soldiers, sailors, air crews and all the staff associated with that defence and not spend money on those personnel. It is vital that our servicemen and women, who go to fight wars on our behalf, receive the proper training, equipment and kit on their feet, on their backs and around their necks to do the job that we send them to do and which they have ably done over the last number of years and, in fact, centuries.”
“That is what it has been for so many years. You cannot put a price on a deterrent that has stopped war and stopped people suffering throughout the ages.”
“I believe them. It is one of the great truths of our age and the one before it that the Cold War, for all of us, felt like a phoney war because it was fought at a level of spooks, spies and special forces. I believe that the reason for that was the nuclear capabilities of both sides. That sharpened and focused the minds of world leaders. It sharpened and focused the minds of populations. They would have been against the escalation of what we know now as the Cold War. That is an undeniable truth that we should take cognisance of as we debate a nuclear deterrent. It is OK for Sinn Féin to say, "Well, we do not want to talk about defence; we want to talk about welfare." You cannot not talk about defence when you are talking about a nuclear deterrent.”
“The Minister will do well, given this damning report, not to gloss over or deflect away from the problems in Maghaberry prison. That is clearly what his statement is designed to do. Minister, you may want to talk about the future — and we would all like to see a better future for our prisons — but I want to talk about the here and now, when prison officers are working with low morale in an unsafe and unstable environment. Minister, how many action plans do we need before those actions become reality and our prison officers, and indeed the prisoners, are working and living in safer conditions?”
“I have just left the Michelin plant where I met John Milstead, the plant manager on the site, and I spoke to many employees who are absolutely devastated at today's news. Can I ask the Minister and other Executive Ministers to do everything in their power to enable the proper training and support to be placed in Michelin and, indeed, Ballymena, given the job losses at JTI, B&Q, Patton and other businesses in that area of late? Can I ask the Minister to ensure that people in his Department and other Departments who are at the coalface of this will support those employees as much as they can? Can I also ask the Minister —”
“The report deals with a wide spectrum of access to justice. Is it not short-sighted and, indeed, short-termism to go through with the proposed potential courthouse closures, given the fact that our justice system has not been modernised and reformed to the extent that people will be able to benefit from technology and other means of quicker access to justice?”
“The trust would admit that a mistake was made: Antrim Area Hospital was put in the wrong place, which meant that the Causeway Hospital had to be put in the wrong place. That shows you that one error impacts on another, and so on. It should not make the same mistake in the future. <BR /> <BR />We are told that we have sufficient bed space in Ballymena and that we do not need Pinewood. When I write to the Minister or the trust on behalf of constituents who need a bed in the Ballymena area, they are given a list of beds, but not one of them is in Ballymena. That is wrong. That is why I want a holistic approach by the trust and Dalriada —”
“Let us see a holistic approach and a plan for the whole Northern Trust area. That may be the logic and rationale needed when decisions have to be taken. I am not saying that hard decisions should not be taken; they should be. However, simply deciding one month to close this part of the health service and then to close another part of the health service the next month is wrong. It is unreasonable to suggest that people should go with that. There could be a holistic approach, whereby the trust lays down where everything should be and the whole jigsaw can be viewed by the population at the one time. <BR /> <BR />I know what it feels like when a town loses its hospital. I still get it on the doors — every single week, I knock doors — about losing the hospital in Ballymena and how we have suffered since.”
“It produced a report on the Dalriada pathfinder pilot. I have had a look at it, and I agree with my colleague across the way: this could be the way to go. It seems to be getting a reasonable hearing from movers and shakers in the trust and in the Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council. It has merit and should be looked at. I ask everyone, and I plead with the Minister, to look at the report to see what can be done by using it. <BR /> <BR />We fight this endless battle with the trust. Every time I meet the chief executive and everyone else below him, I keep pleading with them to stop delivering messages to the population, to MLAs and to the Minister in a piecemeal and negative way. We are sick to the back teeth of hearing about the closure of this and the closure of that.”
“I saw straight away that it was not just a normal campaign that people fight when things close. There was method in it, and a strategy was put in place. It is easy to fight for things to remain open. It is easy to do the polar opposite of a government agency or the trust. It is harder when you try to justify it or to get rationale and arguments for keeping something open and enhancing it. The Save the Dal group did that tremendously well. Not only did it have a coherent strategy of motivating and mobilising the community — it also did that very well — but it had a strategy and tangible plans in place not only to save the Dal but to enhance it. <BR /> <BR />Save the Dal is probably not the most appropriate name for the group; it should be Enhance the Dal because it is doing what it said it would and putting practice into play.”
“I commend the Member across the way for securing the Adjournment debate at a very timely juncture. We recall the campaign that was led last year by the Save the Dal group, and I have worked with other like-minded MLAs who fought hard for the Dalriada Hospital and worked closely with the people involved in the group.”
“It is the pressure and the burden of the costs of energy that make people want to connect to the grid, and that has a ripple effect and a snowballing effect on the costs. These are very important issues, and I commend this report to the House.”
“The grid strengthening will be problematic. Connection to the grid will be a problem until we get the cost of energy down, and getting the cost of energy down is the most important aspect. Not everybody wants to connect to the grid. Not everybody wants to put up a turbine.”
“We need to ensure that schools produce students who are employable. It is not good enough to have students coming out of school with exam results or grades; they need to be employable, and that employability has to be attached to the education system, with business having a greater say in schools. I think that government must be agile yet not react with a knee-jerk. I think that they must be responsive to business but not restrictive. We need to be the runway for business to take off. We should not be in the cockpit; that is business's job. We need to lay the runway for business to take off. <BR /> <BR />Some things are hampering the take off. There is no doubt that energy is a massive issue, and, until we tackle the core pressure of everything to do with energy — that being the cost of it — everything else will be problematic.”
“OK, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will return to the motion by saying that, unless the business community has confidence in this place and the parties that take part in this place, we are in a very bad place. Things have to be addressed around the confidence issues in this country and by some of the parties involved. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that this piece of work is of great merit, and, having spoken to the Minister, I know that he is taking a lot of this on board, and he will speak to it very shortly. It is important to look at some of the things that need to be done. We need to make sure that the skills are there for companies to come into Northern Ireland. If we want to promote Northern Ireland to global companies, we need to make sure that the skills are at hand to be employed.”
“I thank the Member for that because he is coming on to the very next subject that I was going to speak on. <BR /> <BR />It is also very clear that, when politicians in this House cannot make a decision around the hard decisions to be made, it is also true to say that murders on our streets, committed by people who are connected to people in parties in a Government, will undermine and sap away all of the confidence that the business community has. We cannot sit idly by and allow that to happen. We will take —”
“It is down to the intransigence of parties across the way. What are you scared of? Why will you not make the hard decisions? They affect your people, they affect my people and they affect your families and my family. They affect all our people, yet you sit on your hands and do nothing. It is about time that parties across the way grew up and decided to make hard decisions around welfare reform and mend the gap in our Budget. If we cannot mend the gap in the Budget, we can do nothing. We will be paralysed. We will not to be able to help families and we will not be able to help businesses. We will be no help to anyone.”
“However, with every single tax-varying power that any Administration or Government have, there comes a massive responsibility. Why would any sovereign Government give this Assembly tax-varying powers of that nature when we cannot even make the hard decisions that have to be made in this House? I work with parties across the way on the Committees every day to produce reports like this, but until they start doing what they say and practising what they preach, these Committee reports will mean nothing. Until we can make the hard decisions around welfare reform and close that bulging hole in our Budget, we will not be able to do anything for our people.”
“I support this piece of work and the Committee inquiry, which we undertook several months ago. Of course, we had to read up on it to make sure that we were refreshed with its content, because it was an extensive piece of work around a very, very important issue, namely the economy and creation of jobs in this country. The most important things that the people of this Province worry about, which I hear when I knock on the doors of my constituency, are prosperity and a future for their children. In this House, we are tasked with making sure that the future is real, tangible and profitable for our people, and that is the job that we should set ourselves to. <BR /> <BR />There is absolutely no doubt about it: corporation tax will be a massive tool in the toolbox of government if we can get tax-varying powers.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Of course, that point was raised by the Ulster Unionist Party, which is a party that is slow to do everything. In fact, you have to ask why it did not move out of the Executive two years ago. The only thing that it did in recent history quickly was to release prisoners.”
“How does the fact that the public protection and registered offenders project advisory groups have been merged, which seems to me to be common sense, and the fact that there will be respective police and prison services along with probation services involved in that advisory group, tie in with public protection arrangements in Northern Ireland (PPANI)? How will the introduction of a child protection disclosure scheme — Northern Ireland's equivalent to Sarah's law — affect that group and how it shares information?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He will recognise, I am sure, if he is on the ground like I am, that a lot of our waste water treatment plants are over capacity — some well over — and some are bordering on it, being over 80% of capacity full. That needs to be addressed in the future.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He quite rightly pointed out, as did the Minister, the potential issues for new builds, with those in the building industry perhaps not putting in place the infrastructure. However, there is another concern with any new developments, which is that, given the additional households being put into the system, the current system that NI Water operates may not be fit for purpose the whole way to the end of a drainage system or waste management plant. Are there any measures in the Bill that will help to reinforce the system that is already in use to ensure that it is not on the NI Water side that flooding is caused?”
“Will the Minister assure me that he is doing everything that he can to make sure that there is a coordinated strand to the three councils involved in promoting the Causeway coast and glens — Mid and East Antrim Borough Council, Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council, and Londonderry city and Strabane District Council — and that it is connected to the Republic of Ireland's Wild Atlantic Way? Will he assure us that he believes that Tourism Ireland is giving the Causeway coast and glens area a fair crack when it comes to other competing pressures on the island of Ireland?”