Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,234 lines we hold for Emma Pengelly, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 10 of 45.
“Once finalised, the timeline for approval and publication will be a matter for the Executive.”
“I knew that a question on the investment strategy was coming up shortly; I did not realise that it was the next question. <BR /> <BR />The investment strategy remains under consideration. We hope to be able to bring it to the Executive in the near future. The Member may recall that junior Minister Bunting provided a detailed update on the investment strategy in the Chamber on 14 October in response to an Opposition motion. Although an immense amount of work has already gone into shaping the strategy, there are still some key considerations to be worked through. However, we are confident that the substantial work that has already been completed, together with progress on the enabling action plan, sets a clear direction. We know what needs to be done, and we are committed to doing it. We are determined to get this right.”
“The idea of finding hundreds of millions of pounds is not realistic, unfortunately, so it is a challenge to which there is no answer at the moment.”
“<BR /> <BR />The First Minister and I have tasked the Strategic Investment Board (SIB) with looking at the options around capital funds and what we can do, particularly with regard to NI Water and the requirement for infrastructure, where that is impacting. As we have said, that is not just about the building of houses or holding back economic development; it is contributing to issues such as the situation with Lough Neagh. We cannot avoid that. NI Water is a significant contributor to that situation, and it needs to be addressed by investment. <BR /> <BR />Those are all things that we are trying to tackle at the moment. However, let us all be incredibly clear: there is not enough capital in the system to do what we need to do and to support our core public services.”
“That is a timely question, because we are looking into the Chancellor's Budget event at the end of this month. I have to say that there is little space for optimism that we will get any additional money, either revenue or capital. Of course, if we got that, that would be welcome. There are huge challenges. I do not need to say that to anybody around this place when you know what needs to be done in your constituencies, should that be on potholes in our roads, the need for new roads or the promises that have been made to our schools. You can go into a school and see the maintenance that is required and the backlog for that. I go around Lagan Valley and, day in, day out, see that need for capital investment and infrastructure. There are difficult things that we need to look at.”
“We are looking at our investment strategy for Northern Ireland (ISNI), and that is a matter that is coming up later in these questions. To be clear, in all likelihood, the vast majority of any capital funding that will be available in the next 10 to 20 years is already fully committed against a range of projects, and we have been actively looking to see how we can increase the amount of capital available because of, for example, big issues in NI Water that are now holding back housing and economic development. Those are big challenges, and the Executive need to look at those. In the case of this project, there is a significant capital shortfall. That is the reality. It is not political posturing, and it is not about people being difficult about it. It is just a reality, and there is not a solution to that issue at this stage.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I know that he has been lobbying and speaking much on the GAA issue, but I reiterate that the project was not delayed by the Northern Ireland Executive. It was not delayed because of political disagreement. It was not delayed because of the DUP. There were lots of local issues in relation to planning, and the costs of the project have increased significantly, leaving what many people would assess to be a shortfall of well in excess of £100 million on that project. I see that the Member is shaking his head. If that is incorrect, that needs to be articulated, but that is my understanding of it. <BR /> <BR />The Executive do not have £100 million sitting about for this project, as the Member is aware. There are many pressures in the system.”
“I can confirm that it remains an Executive flagship capital project. It was part of that investment strategy, and it is referenced in the Programme for Government. The challenge in all of this is because of the cost of that project now, but, as we have said many times before, the commitment to that £60-odd million by the Northern Ireland Executive remains. We know that that is not sufficient against the plans that the GAA has. I understand that the GAA is not willing at this point to put additional money into the project, and that will leave a significant shortfall between the cost of the aspiration and what is on the table. That is a challenge for people to look at, including the GAA, and I look forward to seeing what the GAA's proposals are on that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The holding up of Casement Park was never a political issue. The funding for Casement Park was secured as part of a multi-sports package. That funding of circa £62 million remains on the table. The Member will be fully aware of the financial pressures facing the Executive in both revenue and capital. That funding remains on the table, and, as indicated, it remains an Executive flagship programme.”
“The redevelopment of Casement Park remains an Executive flagship capital project for sport in Northern Ireland.”
“Conflicts of the future will be as much about cyberattacks on our networks and on our electricity systems etc as they will be about that traditional street-by-street type of fighting that, unfortunately, formed part of past wars. That is something for us to be aware of in our defence strategy, and I look forward to working with the ADS group, with you, as Chair of the Committee, and with others to make sure that Northern Ireland can benefit fully on that front.”
“When you speak to people from Poland, Latvia and a number of countries, you can see that real sense of insecurity and the concerns about security. They are investing in defence, because, fundamentally, they see that as the best way to secure peace for their region, and our companies can absolutely play a role in that. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right. The initiative by the UK Government to support the defence industry is UK-wide. We absolutely must make sure that Northern Ireland can benefit from that. We have a number of really strong areas in not only aerospace and defence but cybersecurity. That is a big strength that we have.”
“It is undoubtedly the case that we have a really strong, high-quality defence and aerospace industry in Northern Ireland. Last weekend, we had Remembrance Sunday, which is a time for many to pause and reflect on the role that so many in Northern Ireland played in the world wars and in wars and conflicts since. Importantly and in line with that are the roles that our industries and businesses play in supporting the defence industry. Companies and the things that are made right here in Northern Ireland help to keep the world safe. At the moment, it is unfortunate that, because of global conflict, there are fears. I speak with a number of ambassadors, and we have the opportunity to meet ambassadors and delegations who come to Northern Ireland from across the globe.”
“It is also about upskilling or reskilling people who currently work in jobs that could perhaps be picked up by AI and used in different ways. As we know, the needs of the Civil Service in the future will be very different from its needs of the past. <BR /> <BR />The head of the Civil Service has undertaken a people strategy review. A lot of work is being done on looking at the numbers that are needed across our public sector to make it fit for purpose, what skills are required for the future and where AI can support those. The important point is that it is not primarily about people losing their jobs; it is about maybe doing things better and differently in the future and reskilling and upskilling for future jobs those who are in existing jobs.”
“It is a big concern for many people when they look at their own job and at future-proofing it. Realistically, in all likelihood, AI will be able to do things in five or 10 years' time, and maybe in one year's time, that we cannot even imagine right now. There is an apprehension about that at times. I always think that we need to be careful that we are not being Luddites about it. We do not want to delay by being apprehensive about something that we do not perhaps always understand but should, in fact, look at it while being conscious of the risks and challenges that it poses and acutely aware of the opportunities that it presents. <BR /> <BR />I would always say that it is not about simply replacing people. It is very much about looking at how AI and technological development can help support better efficiency and better productivity.”
“We need to look at all its characteristics and challenges and make sure that it is fit for purpose. You are absolutely right.”
“Of course, AI has so many other potential uses, not least in our health sector, supporting diagnostics; across our system, populating fields with common information and therefore saving a lot of people a lot of time; and in the drafting of factual background speeches. <BR /> <BR />There are two key principles: the first is that it has to be ethical; and the second is that it is important that we still have a core human element to check facts and to check for bias and other issues. The end users are really important. We know that a lot of older people use government services. Many of the older people whom I know could buy and sell you in social media and online. We also know that there are challenges with some of those digital skills right across people's ages, so it has to have a role in the entire life cycle.”
“As the Member will be aware, so much of what we do now is about collaborative design and co-production. We hear those buzzwords all the time, but they are important, because this is about including those who will use the strategy during the period and process of putting together the strategies and action plans. That is important, and there are so many different elements. If you speak to anybody about what they think that AI is, you will find that it depends on their personal experience of it. Many people will think that it is about jumping on an app on their phone and asking it to put something together, should that be a picture, a couple of paragraphs or some factual information.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have established six core pillars for the new AI strategy and action plan, and the aim is that it will cover up to 2030. The six pillars are governance, infrastructure, data, skills, public-sector transformation and citizenship. We are looking at having an AI hub for delivery, which would look at the actions. I commend our CSTA, as it is a significant amount of work. I know that she has also relied on a range of third-sector and private-sector partners for expertise and support. Of course, we are very grateful for the help and support that we have received on that from inside and outside the system.”
“Nor did I realise that question 7 had been withdrawn. That is why I requested permission for the questions to be grouped. Apologies. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right. We have a timetable for phase 2 and phase 3. Phase 2 is now complete. As I am sure the Member is aware, a task and finish group has been established by Professor Helen McCarthy, who is in our new post of Chief Scientific and Technology Adviser (CSTA). She has been a real breath of fresh air. That shows the benefit, even though hers is only a part-time posting, of someone's coming in from outside the system with knowledge and experience of, and passion for, the area. She is really trying to drive through what we require from the strategy. That work is well under way. As I said, that group has been convened, and she has been engaging with a wide range of people.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Due to the seamless transition from the previous item of business into Oral Answers to Questions, I do not have the updated file.”
“The governance pillar is grounded in the principles of transparency, respect and fairness, ensuring that AI is deployed ethically and responsibly across Departments. By embedding those principles, we reinforce our commitment to inclusive governance and to ensure that AI solutions are developed and used in ways that are morally responsible, socially beneficial and aligned with human values.”
“To support that drafting phase, the office set up two key groups: an external AI advisory panel, made up of industry leaders, including the Artificial Intelligence Collaboration Centre (AICC) and local universities; and a government AI network, which brings together representatives from all nine Departments. Efforts are under way to consolidate feedback from the advisory panel and the government AI network. The government AI network will reconvene in December to review and discuss an early draft of the strategy. Taking an iterative approach will help to ensure that the strategy is robust, inclusive and future-proofed. At the heart of the strategy is a firm commitment to the ethical and responsible use of AI, which is embedded in the governance pillar.”
“Mr Speaker —. Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, with your permission, I will answer questions 3 and 7 together. <BR /> <BR />The Office of AI and Digital, under the leadership of Professor Helen McCarthy, is preparing a comprehensive strategy for the ethical adoption of AI in the public sector. That is a collaborative effort, which draws on expertise from across government, industry and academia. <BR /> <BR />The scoping phase of that work is now complete. It incorporated input from a diverse group of stakeholders, which has been instrumental in shaping the key pillars of the strategy.”
“I believe that it should be an enshrined right of this place that you have the ability, should it be in boxing, athletics or fishing, to compete for your country, Northern Ireland, under the flag of your country. I would like to see that addressed not just here and across the UK but, indeed, by international sporting bodies and organisations.”
“I thank the Member for her important question because some of the important issues that have been highlighted in that case are common in too many other places as well. Of course, I welcome the fact that the report has now been shared. I welcome the commitment on action. I understand that, tomorrow, there will be a statement in the House from the Minister for Communities on that important issue. However, the Member is absolutely right: the situation in too many sports is that you cannot, and do not have the choice to, compete under your national flag for Northern Ireland. That needs to be addressed. I have worked with many different sports bodies. It is a mixed picture depending on what the sport is.”
“We recognise that sport plays a vital role in bringing people and communities together, and we welcome the report and its call for a series of reforms to ensure fairness and transparency in the sport. It is encouraging that the Equality Commission has recommended the establishment of an oversight panel to support the effective implementation of the recommendations. We also welcome that the commission will continue to engage with stakeholders on that important matter. We look forward to seeing the outworkings of the report.”
“Of course, I would urge the panel to use maximum flexibility in order to reflect the reality of how mental ill health can happen as a result of those traumatic events.”
“Just over the past week, I spoke to people who have applied on the basis of post-traumatic stress disorder, particularly those who served in our armed forces and the then RUC. It was an incredible thing to step forward in those most difficult of circumstances. People saw their friends, colleagues and family members killed in very difficult circumstances. They have suffered psychological injury. Experts connect that directly to what they experienced. Often, however, they are unable, at the moment, to get help from that scheme. That needs to be addressed. Our understanding of the nature of mental health issues and how they come about has evolved significantly. I do not believe that, at the moment, that scheme takes that into account. However, that does not mean that people should not get that help and support.”
“I thank the Member for her important question. Those schemes are so meaningful to so many people. They are long overdue. It is recognition of a wrong that was done in the past. That wrong was not done by anyone in this place — indeed, it was done by very few people, if any, in those institutions or organisations today — but it was a wrong that was done, and that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. <BR /> <BR />We do not just have the HIA redress scheme. We are about to commence our mother-and-baby homes redress scheme. We also have our pension scheme for people who were severely injured. I have talked to people who are going through that process. It can be a re-traumatising and frustrating process.”
“That will take time, working with the Arts Council and potentially with councils. Local groups may want to see something a bit different in their area, and we need to have the flexibility to take them into account. Once the plaque is completed, work will continue at pace to ensure that the commitment to local memorialisation is fulfilled as well.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As she is aware, we have included the Arts Council in taking the matter forward. That was a recommendation, as she knows, from the Hart report. It has been outstanding for such a long period because of the need to find as much consensus as possible on a matter that is both sensitive and incredibly important to victims across the piece. We have always been acutely aware that not all victims and survivors have the same view on every matter. We have therefore worked carefully with them, and I am really pleased that we have found a way through on what was a challenging issue over the past number of years. <BR /> <BR />I have no doubt that there will be the same challenges with local memorialisation, but we want the process of working with people to be victim-centred. It also has to be trauma-informed.”
“I am pleased to say that, as it is in its final stages, it is just a matter of ensuring that the final plaque is prepared for installation. The First Minister and I hope to be in a position to formally put up the plaque early in the new year.”
“We thank the Speaker for his continued support in helping us to deliver this important inquiry recommendation. The memorial will ensure that the victims and survivors are permanently and respectfully remembered and acknowledged.”
“Victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse (HIA) have endured unimaginable pain and suffering over many years. We recognise the importance of fulfilling the final recommendation of the Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry report to honour those who suffered, including those who did not live to see justice or acknowledgement. Following extensive engagement with victims and survivors, we are pleased to confirm that agreement has been reached to place a memorial plaque in the Great Hall of Parliament Buildings. We have considered the views expressed by victims and survivors and agreed the final wording for the plaque. The Speaker has confirmed that the Assembly Commission is content with the final wording, and officials are working closely with the Speaker's Office to take the final steps.”
“We want to reach consensus on a range of Bills. If we can reach that consensus, they will certainly get Executive agreement, and we will bring them forward for Committee scrutiny, which we in the Executive Committee so very much welcome.”
“We must work together to get those things into a state that people can support. I am clear about that. <BR /> <BR />I thank all the Members for their contributions. I listened to them all, and have taken on board many of the key issues that were raised. A number of pieces of legislation were referred to. I have had the benefit of seeing the policy content of some, but not of others. I look forward to engaging with Committees throughout the year. My commitment to the Chamber is that we in the Executive Office will be working with ministerial colleagues on a regular basis to assess the progress of the Bills that we have set out. If there are challenges or problems in bringing them forward, we will work with Ministers to see whether we can unblock them and get them moving. We want to fulfil what we have set out today.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. I have outlined the process. It would not be practical or realistic to ask Ministers to bring forward detailed policy proposals for a yea or a nay from the First Minister and me before they would make their way into the programme. That is a well-established practice. I will not be signing up to legislation until I see its content. That is a core principle of mine, and one that we should all adhere to. The task that we have is to work with our Executive colleagues and look at the proposals that are brought forward. We will work with them to see whether we can reach consensus. That is the duty that we have. If we cannot get consensus on big, important issues, such as employment legislation, they will not proceed. That is realistic. That is the system that we have.”
“They brought forward nine pieces of legislation, of which seven received Royal Assent. In the second year, it was 18. In the third year, just shortly before the collapse, of course, it was in single digits again. He and other SDLP Members decry this legislative programme, but I say to him gently that it has more ambition than previous programmes did. It has more pieces of legislation in it. There is a range of legislation, some of which, understandably and logically, will bring us into line with the UK, just as was the case with the legislative programme that was brought forward by his party when it jointly led the Executive.”
“He stands in the Chamber and he moans and moans and moans. Does the Member know how many pieces of legislation the first Executive, who were led by the Ulster Unionist Party and the SDLP, brought forward in year 1?”
“We should be looking at some of our legislation and addressing some of the issues outlined in the courts, not least the recent decision on the A5. <BR /> <BR />I am not going to go into all the many contributions in detail, but I will touch on a number of them. We are getting close to the spooky season. In 'Harry Potter', there is Moaning Myrtle, but we have our very own moaning Matthew every single day.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. He should also recognise the importance of having that legislation in place in advance of the next term. We need to ensure that affordability for parents is at the heart of that Bill. It is important to get those things done before the beginning of the next school term in order to allow parents, hopefully, to make those savings. That is an issue that has put a lot of pressure on many hard-working and hard-pressed families. Of course, there will be examples of where we need to push things through as quickly as possible, but good legislation takes time, scrutiny and all of us working together to make sure that it is the very best that it can be. It also takes us all to recognise that, if things are not working as originally envisaged, they should be changed.”
“As my colleague from North Belfast Phillip Brett pointed out, ultimately, the quantity of legislation does not in any way demonstrate its quality or benefits, or the productivity of this place. Passing legislation is, of course, an important function of the Assembly, and it is really important that there is proper scrutiny. Good legislation takes time; that is the reality. In my view, everyone in this place should look very carefully at the A5 judgement and at what happens when legislation is rushed or when substantial amendments are accepted from the Floor of the House without proper consultation and consideration.”
“I welcome the fact that so many Committee Chairs spoke about the particular issues that will be coming up in their Committees over the next 12 months — those core concepts of early engagement, transparency and scrutiny. If we are being honest, as a number of Members mentioned, we have to admit that we have some quite frankly appalling pieces of legislation or legislation that contains some quite frankly appalling clauses. <BR /> <BR />I am a small government person. I do not believe that there should be unlimited amounts of legislation, nor that legislation is always necessary in order to effect change or to realise what we want to achieve. It is important to say that.”
“Therefore, it is on that basis that the debate is happening today. If, indeed, we were a Government like most other Governments, I would be standing here proposing how my Government would put in place the manifesto that we stood on in an election, as would any other Minister in this place. We cannot do that, however, because that is not the system that we have. It is incredibly important to be very clear about that. We have not rejected a proposal from any Minister. Indeed, I believe that there is ambition within these proposals as well. <BR /> <BR />A number of common themes emerged across the Chamber. Members wanted to see ambition in a legislation programme and wanted the Committees to be engaged.”
“I thank Members for their contributions to the debate. I do not intend to speak for very long, but I will touch on some common points that were made across a number of contributions. I welcome the fact that we heard from so many Members. I know that the nature of our legislative process in Northern Ireland is challenging. We are a coalition Government of four parties that have been forced together into that arrangement. Therefore, we adopt a particular approach to the legislation programme, which is to respect each Minister as they put forward their proposals for inclusion at an early stage. We do not police that from the centre, nor do we ask Ministers to put forward detailed policy proposals for those pieces of legislation, because we know that they must come to the Executive for discussion and decision.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It was remiss of me not to refer to the fact that the First Minister has a family emergency and asked me to step in and cover this item of business. We were to share it, with one opening the debate and the other winding it up. That is not the case due to her family circumstances.”
“Finally, as First Minister and deputy First Minister, we will seek to introduce a race equality Bill to ensure that racial equality legislation fully reflects and responds to the needs of our minority ethnic communities and offers them the best protections from racism and discrimination in the environments in which they live and work. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Executive Committee, we commend the legislative programme to the Assembly. We hope that Members and Committees will now engage positively with the Ministers responsible for the Bills as we seek to impact positively, in a practical and meaningful way, on the communities that we have been elected to serve.”
“The Health and Social Care (HSC) control of data processing Bill will amend and update existing legislation to protect the privacy of confidential patient information. <BR /> <BR />The Minister for Infrastructure will aim to introduce a ports Bill to provide new and additional powers across several areas of harbours and trust port provision. <BR /> <BR />The Minister of Justice plans to introduce Bills on sentencing and on victims and witnesses of crime. The sentencing Bill will implement decisions from the review of sentencing policy, the consultation on Charlotte's law and the statutory model for hate crime. The victims and witnesses of crime Bill will introduce measures to enhance the experience, protections and outcomes of victims of crime as they engage with the criminal justice system.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister of Education will aim to introduce Bills to strengthen provision on inspections, to establish an effective and outwardly-focused professional body for teachers, and to provide for all learners to participate in education, apprenticeships or training until they are 18. <BR /> <BR />The Minister of Finance will introduce the normal Budget Bills as part of the annual financial cycle and will aim to introduce a marriage and civil partnership Bill that will include belief marriages and civil partnerships. <BR /> <BR />The Minister of Health proposes to introduce two Bills on staffing and the control of data processing. The safe and effective staffing Bill will ensure and assure the provision of high-quality care, workforce planning and staff governance.”