Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“I thank the Member for her question. I hope that we have made it clear thus far that we want every part of Northern Ireland to benefit from economic prosperity. Our focus is on economic growth. We recognise that economic growth is key to ensuring that we have happy, thriving communities, no matter where they are throughout this place. Of course, the investment strategy will actively look at opportunities to ensure that investment is made right across Northern Ireland. I am sure that the Member welcomed the announcement that was made just last week about the A5. At the very heart of that is the fact that, in order to get that prosperity, people need to be able to travel to take up those opportunities, and they need to be able to do so safely.”
“We need to get those right, and that includes everything from procurement, business cases and contractual obligations to the roll-out on the ground. All those pieces must work together if we are to deliver on time and on budget, which is what we very much want to do.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Detailed work has been taken forward, particularly under the head of the Civil Service and the Strategic Investment Board (SIB). SIB is tasked with bringing forward the new investment strategy, but it is undertaking a number of pieces of work to learn lessons from what happened not only to identify the problems but to recommend where we can find solutions to issues in the process. <BR /> <BR />We have always said that this must be an Executive that deliver. I want this to be an Executive that is all about delivery. Part of that is getting agreement on prioritisation. A big part of it will be about securing a much-needed Budget. A critical aspect of that and one on which projects often fall down is in delivery, implementation and roll-out.”
“Throughout all that and thus far, we have made it clear to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Secretary of State that the UK strategy for economic growth and investment must include Northern Ireland, and we will continue to do that. Northern Ireland must be fully integrated into the pitch that is made and the opportunities that can be secured in order to ensure that all parts of this United Kingdom can benefit from economic prosperity.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Absolutely; we have to work very closely with the Department for Business and Trade on matters that go across the UK. I welcome the fact that two opportunities are coming up this week. The new council of the nations and regions, which will meet on Friday, will be an opportunity to raise those issues. The investment summit is happening on Sunday evening and on Monday in London. That is an opportunity for the First Minister and me to engage at a high level with key businesses not only to seek investment but to make clear the opportunities that exist for Northern Ireland.”
“I welcome the fact that a whole series of actions is now happening in order to identify the problems and to ensure that, as we move forward with the new ISNI, as it is often referred to, we fulfil the ambition that it sets out.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is essential that we learn the lessons from the previous investment strategy. It set out a clear prioritisation and clear Executive agreement, yet some of those capital projects have not been completed. There are significant increased costs in some of those capital projects. I have said this before, and I will say it again: when the timelines and costs of projects run over, it means that we can do less than we want to with the capital funds that are available. It makes sense, of course, for the projects to be driven forward in a way that best attempts to do them in a timely way and on budget. That has not always happened, and we need to learn those lessons.”
“'Infrastructure 2050' sets out the strategy for investment in infrastructure for the next 30 years in order to stabilise, deliver and transform. It aims to ensure that projects help to create thriving communities and places; a clean, secure and sustainable environment; and a competitive and connected economy. It also seeks to build resilience in public services. We are considering the final draft. We hope that, after we have done that, we will be in a position to bring the strategy to the Executive.”
“We welcome the fact that that has been changed.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There is no departmental position on that. As I indicated, however, we sometimes bandy about terms such as "article-2 compliant" that do not always translate meaningfully on the ground. That means a process that is sufficiently independent to have been deemed under our international commitments to independently and fully have the powers to investigate issues relating to the death of a person. With that in mind, the key thing is that the ICRIR must be article-2 compliant in order to do that. <BR /> <BR />Most of all, we have always said that the fact that all families deserve truth and justice is key to our approach. There must remain an opportunity for all families to get justice. That is why we opposed the blanket amnesty that was set out in the previous legislation.”
“In memory of Gina, we across the House should absolutely commit ourselves to campaigning for the best opportunity for truth and justice for all and to ensuring that everyone has the same opportunity to get truth and justice.”
“I thank the Member for his very appropriate question. As indicated, we should all take time to pay tribute to the incredible work that so many families of victims have done over the years to try to get truth and justice. I pay tribute to Gina Murray, whose life was undoubtedly shaped — shaped so terribly — by the tragic loss of her 13-year-old daughter, Leanne, in that sectarian Shankill bomb. That cannot be justified, and it should not be justified by anyone. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, Gina Murray gave decades of her life to campaigning for truth and justice for her daughter and for so many victims and survivors. We pay tribute to her.”
“I appeal to everyone in the Chamber to work together to ensure that all families receive truth and justice.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Any so-called article-2 compliant process should be capable of getting truth and justice. I gently remind the Member, in a personal capacity, that there are people, not least those sitting in the Chamber, who know truths that they could give to victims and survivors, addressing the fact that those victims and survivors have not had truth and justice. There are others associated with political parties and others who hold that important truth and are withholding it from families. <BR /> <BR />We should never forget that 90% of the murders that took place during the Troubles were committed by paramilitary organisations and that many thousands of the families affected have not received truth and justice.”
“If a different process is required for some, what inadequacies in the ICRIR process is that trying to resolve? <BR /> <BR />I have confidence in Sir Declan Morgan. He is an honourable man who will do his best through the ICRIR. There are issues with article 2 compliance, as highlighted by the recent court judgement. Those issues will have to be addressed, because at the heart of this is a responsibility on us all to support all families to get the best possible opportunity for truth and justice. All families deserve the same opportunity.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. It is appropriate to recognise the deep hurt that continues to be felt by many families. That is compounded by the fact that so many — hundreds — of those victims and survivors have not yet had justice or truth. I mentioned that we had raised the issue with the Secretary of State. Of course, there are different views on that important issue, but one of the issues that I raised directly was the sense that there is a hierarchy of victims or a two-tier approach. All parties around the Chamber opposed the legacy legislation and, through that, the establishment of the ICRIR. However, it is incumbent on those who have faith in the ICRIR to explain to families why that process is sufficient for some but not for all.”
“We will continue to provide support for victims and survivors through the advocacy support network, which is delivered by community organisations and funded by the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS) and is part of the forthcoming PEACE PLUS programme.”
“The issue was discussed at our meeting with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on 2 October. We remain committed to ensuring that the needs of victims and survivors continue to be met. We are delighted to have agreed the new victims and survivors strategy, which has also been endorsed by the Executive. A key part of the strategy is to provide support for victims and survivors, and their families, as they try to move forward from the experiences of the past. The draft strategy recognises the importance of truth and justice and the need to work towards greater societal recognition of the hurt, loss and trauma of our past.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will ask the junior Minister to answer this question.”
“However, we need to be careful, on the way forward, to have the right balance between tackling the scourge of hate online and in the world around us and those basic human and civil liberties.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The Member will be aware that that issue is under active consideration. Fundamentally, it lies primarily with the Justice Minister, but it is a cross-cutting matter, so it would need to come to the Executive, and the agreement of the House would need to be sought. Concerns have been raised about balance in all of this, particularly the absolutely core protection of the basic human rights and civil liberties in relation to freedom of speech and expression. The Member and I and many others across the House have been subject to a significant amount of hate, for example on social media, so there are problems to be addressed.”
“I thank the Member for her question. This is something that goes just beyond that statutory requirement. There are things that we can do. Indeed, the unit in the Executive Office is working with agencies, the Civil Service and public sector and more widely in monitoring that type of data and to collect it. It is important that we understand the issues and challenges in order to take appropriate action where it is needed most. Part of that will be around that monitoring, which could be put on a statutory footing. We are actively considering that, and the Committee has been informed about some of the ongoing discussions. We are aiming to bring forward those suggestions and recommendations very shortly.”
“I am deeply saddened by the antisemitism and racism that has been demonstrated on social media, on the streets and in other forums on the issue. We should all stand united against all forms of racism and sectarianism, no matter where that is found.”
“I thank the Member for his question. We have seen racism play out, not just on our streets, albeit by a small minority, but on social media. As the Member reminds us, today is the anniversary of the horrific terrorist attacks on 7 October 2023 in Israel. We must remember that date as one of the darkest days. Today, we remember the men, women and children who were brutally murdered one year ago and recognise the strength of those who have lost loved ones or had them taken from them. <BR /> <BR />We should all be concerned about the ongoing situation in the Middle East. We should all be calling for all hostages to be returned safely to their families and for calm to be restored in Gaza, Lebanon and the wider region. Israel, of course, has a right to defend herself.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I absolutely oppose racism, sectarianism and hate, on whatever it is based. We have just released our framework and delivery plan for ending violence against women and girls, so it can mean gender-based hate and violence as well. All of that is wrong, and we should stand strongly united as political leaders and representatives against it.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Let me be clear: all racism and hate and all public disorder or violence that is based on it is wrong. It is incredibly important to draw a strong differentiation between that and concerns that are raised in communities. I have made it clear that, as Ministers and political representatives, we must be there to listen to people's genuinely held concerns. That includes, for example, concerns about access to affordable housing and public services. I would suggest that the Member look again at what I have said, which is that there may well be legitimate and genuinely held concerns about access to affordable housing and public services. That is entirely different from and no justification for any violence, racism, hate or disorder. I cannot be clearer on that.”
“<BR /> <BR />While it remains a key priority to deliver fully the commitments in the current strategy, it is important that, post 2025, there be a clear mechanism and overarching framework for achieving racial equality in our society. As part of that, we will be examining how best to use ethnic equality monitoring and other measurements to assess the effectiveness of actions taken and to inform the new approach.”
“The annual racial equality indicators report monitors the progress of the racial equality strategy 2015-2025 on four key outcome areas: equality of service provision; increased participation, representation and belonging; celebration of cultural diversity; and eliminating prejudice, racism and hate crime. The most recent report, which was released on 19 September, showed that, compared with the 2014 baseline, levels of acceptance of, for example, eastern Europeans, Irish Travellers and Muslims as residents, work colleagues or family members had all increased significantly by 2022. That is a key indicator of progress against the targets.”
“There will hopefully be continual improvements against the targets that we set.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The well-being dashboard is a very exciting development. There are 40 indicators on the dashboard. It is live, and I encourage Members to go on to it through the Executive Office website. Some amendment may be made to the indicators, depending on the outcome of the Programme for Government consultation process. Those indicators are all about what the leader of the Opposition referenced: monitoring progress against set baselines. That will be done in live time as the various sources of information are updated. Some of that work will be done monthly, depending on the reporting cycle, and some will be beyond that. It will, however, all be transparent and open on the website as part of the well-being dashboard, which is a really exciting initiative for monitoring progress.”
“Delivery on that is what we will be focused on in the years to come.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Some of those issues are, perhaps, outside my control. I hope that there are no matters over which I have to resign. I have made it clear that I have a determination to create stability. The people of Northern Ireland want that stability to drive forward the changes that we need to see, particularly around the reform and transformation of our public services. <BR /> <BR />Our draft Programme for Government is entitled, 'Our Plan: Doing What Matters Most'. It is about the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly delivering for people on what matters most. What matters most are health waiting lists; transformation of services to ensure that they deliver effectively; and tackling the big issues of education and special educational needs, affordable childcare and growing our economy.”
“It is imperative that we all work together to ensure that stability. At the heart of that must be addressing issues head-on but also finding a shared way through some of the challenges that we face. He is, of course, right, but it is also fair to say that the vision, objectives and policies outlined in the previous Programme for Government had not been fully completed at the end of that period in 2016. Therefore, there is no doubt that Departments were able to continue much of that important work on the priorities set out under the previous Programme for Government. I welcome the fact that we have the draft Programme for Government out to consultation. Ultimately, while we can look back and learn, we must look forward, address the issues and try to ensure a stable and prosperous future for all of us.”
“No such assessment has been undertaken. It would not be possible to do so because we cannot know what would have been in a programme during the years in question. We are, however, delighted to say that consultation on the draft Programme for Government began on 9 September. The draft programme is supported by a well-being dashboard that includes a range of indicators on the wider health and well-being of local people, our economy and our environment. The well-being dashboard will be published and updated regularly. It will be used to help us understand the impact that the programme is having.”
“OK. We continually assess the needs in any of those offices. The Member is absolutely right: there is a whole swathe of new responsibilities and new areas to be looked at. There is no doubt that there is a pressure there on staffing time and the capability to assess all that.”
“I know that the First Minister and the then First Minister, Arlene Foster, did a lot of work, went down to visit and made a commitment to the business case. We will look at that again and see how we can help to move that forward.”
“Any capital scheme will be open for application, but, in my view, the capital scheme must be capable of looking at some significant capital works. A number of our bigger victims' and survivors' groups will have a capital need. That will be dependent on budget, and we hope that those timescales will meet the needs, but I know that there is an urgent need with SEFF, and we are happy to work with it to try to identify alternative funding options that can be brought forward sooner rather than later. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the need is there. SEFF has been working on the project for a long time.”
“It has been some considerable years since there has been a capital fund to work with victims' and survivors' organisations, so, hopefully, there will be some further support. The site is still owned by the Department of Education, so the Minister of Education will work with me and SEFF to try to progress that important scheme.”
“I had the opportunity to go down and speak with the South East Fermanagh Foundation just a couple of weeks ago to get an update about the centre. I visited its premises, and there is an absolute need. It does fantastic work with victims and survivors, not just in the Member's constituency but throughout Northern Ireland. It also has a presence in my constituency, based in Lisburn. It supports so many thousands of victims and survivors, so it needs new premises that are fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased that we have agreed a victims' strategy, which will come to the Executive shortly for agreement. Part of that is a commitment to look at a capital fund to support victims' and survivors' organisations.”
“The Member will see from the Programme for Government that the input from the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs has a lot of focus on environmental issues and targets, but it would be absolutely remiss of us not to recognise the incredibly important role that farmers and our agri-food businesses play in Northern Ireland and that they need to be supported. The majority of our farmers, producers and agri-food companies are small to medium-sized businesses, creating employment for local people, and, as I said, producing high-quality, nutritious, local food. They need to be supported, and they should be supported. We should all be champions of that, and we should all be very proud of our agri-food and farming community here.”
“Absolutely. We have made clear to the UK Government that we are prepared to play our part in looking at the sustainability of our Budget, to take sensible decisions on the way forward, to look at transformation in order to make our public services, our Departments and their budgets much more sustainable and efficient. We will do that, but that requires investment. You have to invest to save. That is incredibly difficult to do when the Budget is as fiscally tight as it is at the moment. <BR /> <BR />We will be making that case robustly and strongly to the Chancellor on Thursday when we meet her. We will be making the case that Northern Ireland requires investment and transformation, support for its front-line public services and the ability for us to reach the ambition as set out in the Programme for Government today.”
“There is no doubt that having happy, thriving people, communities, families and individuals is the best way of securing a better and brighter future for Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As he will be aware, I was somewhat involved in the Programme for Government preparations and discussions this morning, and then I was in the Chamber this afternoon, so I have not had the opportunity to look at that consultation. However, in line with the Programme for Government, growing our economy is absolutely key. We talk very much about the prosperity agenda. We have had 25 years since the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, as amended by St Andrews, in which we have been able to secure peace, if not always stability, and significant improvements and growth in our economy. Looking to the next 25 years, we really need to focus on the prosperity agenda.”
“Absolutely. The loss of that route was huge. The options are still there, and we will pursue all the possibilities that are on the table to try to reinstate it. There will be no point in having pre-clearance if we do not have a direct flight, so trying to secure interest in that direct flight route is important. We have huge foreign direct investment from the US to Northern Ireland. When we speak to US investors, we hear that they want to invest more, and they raise the issue of connectivity and the direct flight. It is a priority for us in trying to push ahead. If we could secure that, it would be hugely beneficial to our business and tourism sectors.”
“I hope that the Member has had the opportunity to look at the draft Programme for Government, where he will see a number of relevant references. In the general sense, that connectivity is so important to growing our economy. There are specific references, including to looking at how we increase the connectivity and linkages and at the barriers to doing that. It also looks at some very exciting and ambitious ideas, such as extension of pre-clearance in Dublin and trying to reinstate the direct route to the US. The extension of pre-clearance would encourage that; it would all, of course, have to work in parallel and in tandem. We are acutely aware of that, and the Union connectivity report highlighted some of those issues. We will move forward with that, including in the investment strategy discussions.”
“The site is in Lagan Valley, of course, and I would love to unlock its potential. I can say very clearly that, in my role as deputy First Minister, I will never sign up to or agree to anything that would cause offence or hurt to victims and survivors, or risk glorification of any act of violence or terrorism on that site. Those are very much the parameters within which we will operate. Of course, I would like to unlock its potential, but some very good things already happen on the site. I have mentioned before the incredible growth of the Ulster Aviation Society and the Balmoral show, which, I know, many of you have taken the opportunity to visit. Really great activities happen there, and we need to move forward with discussion and care.”
“I thank the Member for his question. That is an issue that will have to be discussed in due course. We had the opportunity to speak with the board. A new board has been put in place, which was inevitable, due to the length of time that the previous board served. As I have indicated, anything that happens, or is proposed to happen, on the Maze/Long Kesh site has to be done with full understanding of and sensitivity to the views and needs of victims and survivors, because they are the people who are most impacted by some of the events on that site.”
“We are waiting for a further submission to be made on the detail of the appointment processes, but that is now in legislation. The commitment is there, and we have spoken about it to the House. There will be many hundreds of other areas and issues that will be dealt with in Departments, or cross-departmentally, or which will be brought to the Executive over the course of the next three years. The Executive's Programme for Government focuses, as he recommended, on a small number of key priorities, which will be measured and will have an attached budget.”
“It feels a little bit like Groundhog Day, only without any of the fun or entertainment; just relentless negativity. You can have opposition for opposition's sake, or you can have opposition that is constructive. I have looked at the document that he has produced; there is, indisputably, significantly more detail in the document that we have produced. <BR /> <BR />We are asking for people's views on our nine key priorities. The Member said just a few days ago that a good Programme for Government should have a small number of priority areas. We have set out very clearly that the Programme for Government will not reference absolutely everything that the Executive and Departments are going to do. We have already made it clear that we have agreed the process in relation to the issue that he referenced.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The draft Programme for Government contains nine areas of priority, which outline a number of key actions. It also outlines areas on which, although there is not yet Executive agreement, we propose to bring forward actions. It is important to emphasise that the issues that have not yet been agreed by the Executive will still need to come to the Executive for agreement. There are references to each of the priorities. That is what is out for consultation. Once those are agreed, and once prioritisation is agreed, we will set out how we hope to achieve significant year-on-year progress against those nine priority areas. That will follow the consultation and expand on some of the detail in the draft document at the moment.”