Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“I thank the Member for her question. As the Member is aware, the Departments and the Executive operate in a number of ways. It is not just about the Programme for Government commitments but about strategies within the Departments that the Executive and the House endorse. Those strategies often go well beyond the lifetime of a particular Executive or Programme for Government. That is deeply important. <BR /> <BR />We have come a very long way in tackling paramilitarism, but we need to acknowledge the complexity of the issue. Often, what we call "paramilitarism" is simply criminality. The Member will be aware of that from her work generally but specifically in relation to the Justice brief. Where there is that criminality, there has to be a robust criminal justice approach: let there be absolutely no doubt about that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I have always been very clear that every Member across the House and in the Executive should be clear that paramilitarism is wrong. It was always wrong, and there was always an alternative. I have said that clearly. Of course, signing up to policing, justice and the rule of law was an important change that was brought about by the St Andrews Agreement, but we all must go further and ensure every day that we do not glorify terrorism but call it out and take the rightful path of law, justice and order.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Yes, the feedback and the evaluation have been very positive, particularly around the resilience in communities. We know that it is incredibly important that communities have that resilience. I highlight the point that, during the COVID crisis, we really saw that resilience come to the fore in our incredible third sector — the community sector. It was able to operate quickly to help and support so many who live in those communities. We should be proud of our third sector, and I am glad that the project has contributed in such a positive way to increasing resilience even further.”
“Focusing on a policing and criminal justice system solution is important, but we also know that it is not enough and that we need a wider holistic approach that includes working with communities.”
“Communities in Transition is designed to build safer, empowered communities free from criminality and the coercive control of paramilitarism. To date, 82 projects worth over £19 million have been delivered across the eight designated areas. Fifty-two of those projects have been completed, with the remaining 30 contracts continuing into this year. CIT has improved community resilience through targeted interventions to address issues such as child and financial exploitation; the impact of drugs, including addiction and poor mental health; community safety and policing; and the negative impact of paramilitarism on the physical landscape. Paramilitarism remains a residual problem in some parts of our society.”
“It has asserted that sovereignty, so it should use it to address the issues emerging from the "No diminution of rights" approach, the wider scope and the implications set out in the judgement today.”
“I will speak in a personal capacity. The Member will be aware that 'Safeguarding the Union' addressed many issues and focused on trade primarily. He will also be aware, as it is on the record, that — speaking personally — my colleagues raised concerns time and time again in the House of Lords and the House of Commons about the scope of article 2 of the Windsor framework and the "No diminution of rights" issue. The UK Government and their lawyers took a different view and maintained it robustly. The High Court has been very clear today. The matter may well go to the Supreme Court, but, in my view, the UK Government must take cognisance of what the High Court has said and move to urgently address the issues, because the UK Parliament has sovereignty over those issues.”
“The Member will know from his farming background and his role in the agriculture policy brief how important the issue is to the entire farming community, as it is to vets, not just those who work in the agriculture sector but those who work with domestic pets. He will be fully aware of how urgent getting a resolution to the issue is. We call on the United Kingdom Government to work closely with us in urging the European Union to find a resolution. If it does not find one, we call on the UK Government to operate the mechanisms under the Command Paper and take the unilateral action to which they have committed to ensure that Northern Ireland is not left behind when the transition period ends, as set out in the Windsor framework.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Yes, of course, we have discussed that with ministerial colleagues in the Executive. As I indicated, I emphasise at every opportunity the seriousness of the issue.”
“Absolutely. They are important not only to spread better understanding about Northern Ireland but to grow our economy, which is a joint objective of the First Minister and I with our prosperity agenda, and to try to ensure that the economy of Northern Ireland works for everyone. We know that an essential element of that is foreign direct investment and support. We can attract that only by utilising those bureaux and ensuring that Northern Ireland's voice is heard on the global stage. All the fantastic things that Northern Ireland has to offer, and the message that Northern Ireland is open for business and that we here to discuss that, must be clearly put out there to the international community.”
“Undoubtedly, the European Union has taken a particular stance in relation to veterinary medicines. I assure the Member that, at the UK intergovernmental ministerial groups that I have participated in, I have raised this issue as an absolute priority at every opportunity. I know that the farming community and vets are very concerned. It has to be resolved. No Member, no matter from which party, should underestimate the significance of the issue not being resolved. This is an urgent issue, and I hope that everybody will raise it at every opportunity. We need a resolution, and we need it now.”
“Our officials in Brussels engage with the EU on issues relating to the provisions of the Windsor framework through its governance structures. The movement of veterinary medicines from Great Britain to Northern Ireland is now subject to the direction and control of the Secretary of State, as provided for in regulation 3 of the Windsor Framework (Implementation) Regulations 2024. Northern Ireland officials attend fora, including the Specialised Committee on Implementation of the Windsor Framework, the joint consultative working group and structured groups as part of the UK delegation. Under the respective rules of procedure, those meetings are confidential. However, where officials have had informal discussions with EU officials, that has also been to provide factual and technical background information in relation to the issue.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Executive Office budget has been incredibly difficult. We requested £7 million of additional revenue, particularly to support our good relations and ending violence against women and girls strategies. Unfortunately, we were able to secure only £1 million of additional funds. When you take into account inflationary increase and other pressures, that does not leave a significant amount of headroom. Of course, our good relations strategy and interventions are vital. Urban Villages is one where we have had very good learning. We are actively considering the way forward, particularly around the place-based intervention model. We hope to come forward with proposals. We will consult the Committee on those to forge the new programme.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I was an early convert to and enthusiast for place-based interventions, particularly through the Urban Villages initiative. Good and positive work has been done through Urban Villages and projects like THRiVE. We absolutely must learn the lessons from that and take a joined-up and collaborative approach, working hand in hand. The incredible Monkstown Boxing Club, which I had the privilege of visiting a few years ago, is another example. They are great community organisations rolling out fantastic projects. We must learn from and build on that.”
“Building on the success of Urban Villages, our officials have had regular engagement with THRiVE, as we recognise its positive impact on good relations and how it could be used as a model for taking a more collaborative approach to improving outcomes. Representatives from THRiVE have spoken to a number of cross-departmental groups to highlight their experience in order to help to inform our approach to place-based working. TEO has joined other Departments in contributing funding to THRiVE and becoming a member of its programme board. Good relations officials are reviewing that return on investment, which, I have to say, looks positive, with a view to considering further funding in the 2024-25 financial year.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Affordable childcare is an area that I have been working on for many years. It has been a frustrating journey, but there is no doubt that preschool, nursery care and other interventions can support families with the affordability of their childcare. We need a comprehensive affordable childcare strategy, and it is important that there are many different elements of that that fit in. That includes child education and child development. All those elements can be helpful, but, of course, we need that comprehensive childcare strategy, and the First Minister and I are determined to ensure that this Executive deliver that.”
“We will continue to deliver while properly taking the right time to develop and ensure that we are making the right interventions. We will be about delivery, and I will ensure that that is the case.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I echo what I said in the debate. Almost £700 million of funding has gone out for public-sector pay settlements into the pockets of hard-working public-sector workers, who deserved that pay rise before. I am glad that they will now be getting it. Some of them will have received it in this month's pay. We have made decisions on ring-fencing £1·9 million for Lough Neagh and immediate interventions. We have secured £8 million of additional funding for dealing with potholes. We have secured the inclusion of Northern Ireland in the Post Office Horizon payment scheme and have dealt with many, many other issues, including securing Executive agreement to a Budget, despite the very difficult circumstances that we find ourselves in. This has been an Executive that, thus far, have been about delivery.”
“It has to be the right strategy with the right interventions, and we want to have that as quickly as we can.”
“Absolutely. As I outlined in my remarks in the debate, affordable childcare is undoubtedly a priority not just for the First Minister and me, which we have said many times, but, I believe, for the entire Executive. There are challenges with the Budget situation that we are in, but it is absolutely right that that development of an affordable childcare strategy started immediately, and it did. It was discussed at the first Executive meeting, and the task-and-finish group, which the Department of Education leads, was established in those first number of weeks. That group is due to publish, respond and make its recommendations to the Education Minister, who will bring forward immediate actions very shortly. Of course, the longer-term strategy will require co-production and co-design.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As indicated, our intention is to publish a draft Programme for Government as soon as possible and certainly before the summer recess.”
“We are working at pace with Executive colleagues to develop and agree a Programme for Government. We hope to publish a draft for consultation in the coming weeks, which will be brought to the Assembly for scrutiny. It will reflect the need to reform and transform public services and will set out our collective priorities for the mandate. We are keen to bring forward a draft Programme for Government as soon as possible.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware from the debate on that issue in the past number of weeks that there is no consensus on that recommendation from FICT. Of course, the commission itself did not have consensus on that recommendation either.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Of course, the right to freedom of expression is a fundamental human right and one that must be respected by us all. The right to be able to explore, learn about and express all our identities, including in the public space, is precious in our society. I absolutely believe that to be essential. The Executive Office has responsibility for a number of those issues around fundamental human rights. I hope that we can all move to a space where we show that respect to one another, including for parading and other traditions.”
“I am always acutely aware when I respond to questions on that area that it deals with a number of tricky and contentious issues on which there has been no consensus since the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement, nor was there consensus before. We are aware that the officials' advice is at an advanced stage, and we anticipate getting that in the next short while. We will work through it and have those discussions absolutely in good faith. We do anticipate getting it prior to the summer recess.”
“I thank the Member for his question. There was consensus on a number of the commission's recommendations. We hope to be able to move forward with consensus on some of those, but we await the submission and advice from officials. Inevitably, there will be other aspects of the report on which there is no consensus. We will engage on all the recommendations and assess how we can move forward. The key issue is that we are waiting for that submission, recommendation and advice from officials at this stage.”
“The Commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition, otherwise referred to as FICT, concluded its work and provided its final report to Ministers on 17 July 2020. A series of next steps, including a FICT implementation plan, was approved by the Executive on 25 March 2021. On 1 April 2021, initial engagement of Departments was approved by Ministers. On 22 April 2024, officials met junior Ministers to discuss matters relating to the report and the possible way forward. Officials are now preparing a submission on the back of that engagement, which is expected to set out a number of options for consideration regarding the next steps on the report and its recommendations.”
“We must ensure that our public services work for everyone throughout Northern Ireland and that growing the economy here works for everyone. <BR /> <BR />I am going to run out of time, so I will conclude by simply saying that I want this Executive to be known for delivery. It is not about photographs or photo opportunities. It is about supporting people and getting out there, ensuring that people know that the Executive are determined to work in a positive way for everyone. The Executive will be about delivery, and I will ensure that.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome Nick Mathison's recognition that this should be a priority for the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. I assure him absolutely that it is. We are working on it week in and week out, and our intention is to get a draft out as soon as possible and certainly before the summer. We have said so to the House on many occasions; that is the intention. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the comments from my Lagan Valley colleague Robbie Butler on a wide range of issues, particularly on ensuring that the Programme for Government works for everyone: those who suffer discrimination; those with particular challenges; and those with additional needs. It is important that that is fully integrated into all the actions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Doug Beattie mentioned his party's full support of the motion but said that he did not simply want a one-year PFG: I absolutely agree with him. It is important that we have immediate actions. While we can announce our key strategic priorities and, perhaps, our early actions in a draft document, we are fully aware that we need longer-term transformation. Our health service, our education system and the way in which we do public-sector policy and roll out our public services here require significant transformation. That will require us to get the right interventions and ensure that those interventions and the programme of transformation and transition are rolled out in such a way as to get the outcome that we want.”
“I absolutely agree that you must be given that information in a timely way. We will address that and ensure that you get that. <BR /> <BR />As the Chairperson is aware, however, the Executive Office has responsibility for a wide range of issues. Those issues, some of which are very tricky, will have to be scrutinised. The Chairperson mentioned that she expected an announcement on memorials for historical institutional abuse victims, but she has also, in correspondence with us, indicated that she recognises the challenges in achieving consensus on that issue. We want to make sure that we move forward in a victim-centred way, ensuring that the victims and survivors — those who are most impacted — are content with the way forward. That takes time.”
“I will absolutely defend taking the time to ask the right questions on policy development, because this is the stage at which to do so, and I know that the Committee will help us to do that.”
“The Chair of the TEO Committee made her contribution while wearing two hats, one of which was that of Committee Chair. On the work in the Department that she touched on, when we look at any analysis of public policymaking in our Departments, there may be criticism in terms of not getting things out the door very quickly, but I gently say to the Chairperson that the scrutiny role is absolutely essential. I will not be ashamed to stand here and say that appropriate time must be taken to ask the right questions, get the right responses and ensure that the policies and the procedures for what we do are the right ones. The thing is not how quickly we can shove something out the door so that we do not get criticism from anybody; the key thing is that what we do makes a difference and is actually right.”
“I absolutely agree with him that childcare is a big challenge, but why is it so difficult to prioritise our Budget? We all know — we have debated it in the Chamber — that our health costs are higher per head of population than anywhere else in the United Kingdom. We have higher levels of special educational need than any other place across these islands, and funding for that has to come from our Budget. It is understandable that we have to make difficult decisions, but, of course, we have to prioritise those core needs as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />My colleague mentioned a range of issues for prioritisation, and I welcome the fact that he recognised that five priorities were set, including special educational needs, health waiting lists, settling the public-sector pay claims and the action on Lough Neagh, which I did not mention, but the Executive agreed to put aside an additional just under £2 million for immediate actions on Lough Neagh this year. The first Minister and I visited Lough Neagh to hear directly from those most impacted.”
“<BR /> <BR />The leader of the Opposition mentioned that, until there is a Programme for Government, we are improvising. We are not improvising. We recognise that we must dedicate that time and energy to improving our core public services. We know what they are. It is not improvising. We know that they are in Education and Health. It is about roads, schools and special educational needs. Above and beyond those, an additional area of prioritisation is affordable childcare, because that is putting such pressures on families. We need to get to the point where we have at least the same standard of support as the rest of the UK. Of course, we want to go further than that, but, again, we are all realistic about what we can do.”
“I also gently say to the leader of the Opposition that when we look at the history of this place, we will see that a Programme for Government has never been produced within the first 100 days. Indeed, when his party took the deputy First Minister post for the restoration in 1999, there was some instability. When I say instability, after it came back in 1999, there were three months of suspension, but it was restored again in June 2000 with an SDLP/ Ulster Unionist-led Executive. However, the draft Programme for Government was produced in March 2001, and the final Programme for Government was agreed on 24 September 2001, so considerable time was taken, and that was because we need to get these things right. Yes, I want to see a Programme for Government quickly. Of course, I do, but it has to be right.”
“When we talk about prioritisation, within our Budget, keeping our core public services going will be the priority, and we know how difficult that is when we look at the Department of Education budget and, indeed, all budgets across the Executive. Yes, we have taken action. This has been an Executive of delivery. Perhaps we need to explain that more and say it more loudly. I have touched on just a number of the issues, and they represent significant delivery in just 100 days. <BR /> <BR />I want to respond to some of the points raised during the debate. I will start with the leader of the Opposition. Of course, a Programme for Government is essential, and that is what we are working on. The Programme for Government will represent where there is consensus across the Executive.”
“I can go on and on and on, because we have secured many things. <BR /> <BR />While we have been doing that, we have been working on our Programme for Government. Of course, it is an important and essential step in what we need to do, but we also must be fully aware of the challenges that we face. When it comes to our Budget, our priority is clear. Of course, it must be to ensure that our public services are working — our core public services of health and education and what we do currently. We have all discussed here how difficult the Budget has been and will be for those core services. Yes, there is much, much more that we all want to do. While the leader of the Opposition references motions, of course, it was ever thus. Of course, we support the thrust of those motions, but we are also realistic.”
“There is £1 million of additional financial support for students in hardship. Our Education Minister has ensured that those who need special educational needs school places will have them for the start of September. He has also announced special educational needs capital builds, which will make a real difference in the delivery of education where it is needed. We have opened the Limavady shared education campus. Indeed, the Executive have agreed and secured funding for the Strule shared education campus. Measures to address MOT waiting times have been announced and taken. More may well need to be done, but that action has commenced. An additional £8 million for potholes was secured. We know how difficult that situation is throughout Northern Ireland, but that additional £8 million is already starting to roll out.”
“The North/South Ministerial Council has already met. We have agreed a meeting of the British-Irish Council, which will take place in June. There was the announcement of some £9·4 million of payments to environmental farming scheme participants, which have already commenced. There was immediate action in relation to the Victoria Square apartments. We successfully pushed for Northern Ireland to be included in the Post Office scheme relating to the Horizon scandal. We have allocated an additional £1 million for libraries and £3 million of additional funding in the Supporting People programme. A £20 million energy support payment has been made to businesses. There has been action in relation to flooding payments. A £5 million programme has been launched for entrepreneurs and high-growth start-ups.”
“— that envelope was put in place and those settlements could be reached. Ministers have been quick to ensure that those pay settlements could be reached, but we recognise that a small number are still outstanding, and we give a commitment to continuing to address them. <BR /> <BR />Before I take any interventions, I will run through a number of things. It is not an exhaustive list, but I will highlight some of the things that we have done. There was the pay settlement of £688 million for public-sector workers throughout Northern Ireland. In a difficult situation for our Executive, we have agreed a Budget for 2024. We have been to the USA, where we promoted Northern Ireland and business in Northern Ireland. It was a very successful visit. We established, and attended for the first time in London, the East-West Council.”
“That is what has happened with the vast majority of those pay disputes. I welcome that, because do you know what that is? That is £688 million going into the pockets of hard-working public-sector workers throughout Northern Ireland. I am glad to say that some of them will have seen that additional pay in their pay packet this month. That pay will be used to support other industries, businesses and families throughout Northern Ireland. That is a really important first step. It could not have happened without the additional money being secured through those negotiations, and it could not have happened as quickly without quick and decisive action by the Executive to ensure that —”
“<BR /> <BR />We recognised that, throughout Northern Ireland, our hard-working public-sector workers were not getting the pay that they needed, so what did we do? We did not dither; we took action immediately. Our number-one priority was to set a financial package of some £688 million. That fiscal envelope was set quickly to enable Ministers to negotiate and settle those pay disputes.”
“I support the transformation that we need to fix health and education, and I want to make sure that our public services work for the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />What have we been doing over the past 100 days? We started work immediately, having discussions about key priorities. I am very pleased that, at the very first Executive meeting, we set out our five key priorities. Reference was made to what I said in my acceptance speech in the House. It was about recognising the hardship that is faced by families in relation to access to affordable childcare. What did we do? We tasked the Education Minister to immediately establish a task and finish group of officials. That was done. We await key initial actions to support hard-pressed families in relation to childcare. Those will be published very shortly.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. On taking office, the First Minister and I pledged to work with all parties across the Executive and the Assembly to confront the challenges that we face and capitalise on the many opportunities on offer to deliver a better future for everyone living in Northern Ireland. When we did so, we were fully aware of the challenges that we faced, particularly in relation to the difficult financial situation that all the Departments and the Executive would have to deal with. I am pleased that, over the past 100 days, we have been delivering on that promise. I welcome the fact that my words were referenced. I am in this post to support people and hard-working families throughout Northern Ireland.”
“We have heard a different narrative from the Republic of Ireland Government. It is clearly a complicated issue that requires conversation, discussion and solutions. When housing and public services throughout Northern Ireland and Ireland are under pressure, it does not help the current situation. What is now required is for people to take the heat out of the issue and to have sensible conversations about this complicated issue in order to get to the bottom of exactly what is happening and what needs to be done.”
“Immigration is an excepted matter. It is therefore a matter for the UK Government. We, of course, liaise with them on the issue, because immigration has a significant impact on, for example, the public services that are rolled out through Northern Ireland Departments. It is therefore in our interests to ensure that we have a close working relationship with the UK Government on the matter. <BR /> <BR />We have heard many times about the challenges of getting the right education, the right support and the right housing. There is no doubt that the pressures on available housing are giving rise to significant concern and consternation. I will repeat what I said about last week's events. Our information is that a significant number of those who come to Northern Ireland come through the Republic of Ireland route.”
“We have put it to the UK Government that they must take action — InterTrade UK will have an important role in this — to ensure that businesses in Great Britain are fully aware of what they can do in internal UK trade and do not unnecessarily prevent goods from going to Northern Ireland by saying, "Northern Ireland cannot get those goods" or go through unnecessary procedures. That will work in a number of ways. InterTrade UK will both promote awareness among businesses in the private sector and enable us to hold the feet of the UK Government to the fire on fulfilling the commitments that they have given to the people of Northern Ireland to ensure free-flowing and unfettered internal UK trade.”
“Services have not been impacted by the Windsor framework or Brexit, yet everyone in Northern Ireland will know that, for many years, services have not applied equally here. There has always been an issue about "* does not apply in Northern Ireland", and that needs to be addressed. There needs to be a better understanding. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the UK Government must be held to account to fulfil the promise of unfettered and free-flowing internal trade in the United Kingdom with zero checks. It is clear that some businesses do not understand the procedures, and that needs to be tackled.”