Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“With your permission, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 1 and 10 together. <BR /> <BR />The delivery of the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls requires a whole-of-society approach. We have engaged with Ofcom on online safety and mobilised work across all councils through our change fund. The Online Safety Act 2023 introduced new, UK-wide laws to protect children and adults from online harm, and placed specific obligations on online service providers. We support Ofcom's call to tech companies to play their part in addressing the risks of online harm, and recently met Ofcom to discuss that important issue.”
“I am conscious that I am rapidly running out of time. At this juncture, we do not agree to support simply the option set out in the motion, but we are content to look at the amendment's specific proposal in line with other actions that would be required. We will bring that back to this place and to the Executive as we look at a road map for a way forward, because we are determined to deliver capital projects better, on time and on budget, if at all possible.”
“Again, it is about identifying the barriers. <BR /> <BR />The important question in the debate is whether an infrastructure commission would have addressed that or whether there are serious issues throughout the process, including in our planning system and its appeals process, that need to be addressed. Otherwise, no matter how many independent bodies we set up, the same challenges will be encountered as those that Departments and Ministers have faced when rolling out projects. <BR /> <BR />Procurement expertise is another key area, and integrating the key concepts of the social licence is an important part of that.”
“The assessment that was carried out identified over 100 actions, and those have been rationalised to 12 key actions, including addressing capacity and capability barriers in infrastructure delivery. My colleague highlighted the skills that the Civil Service requires to oversee project delivery. Skills are also needed to tackle things when they do not go right, which often happens in capital projects, and to find swift solutions. <BR /> <BR />We are looking at the business case process. It takes a huge amount of time for business cases to work their way through the system. I often think about the A5 project: Ministers in a five-party Executive were fully, politically behind that, some 17 years ago, in 2007-08, along with the Irish Government; yet, despite that political will, the road has not yet been built.”
“Indeed, we raised our concerns about the single-year Budgets directly with the Chancellor, because we need multi-year Budgets to enable us to plan for our longer-term investment strategy. It will set out a pathway for investment in infrastructure for the next 30 years to stabilise, deliver and transform. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the investment strategy will also have an enabling action plan. The work will be developed, assessed and monitored, because that is essential to ensure delivery. We are looking at all those structures, including the use of the internal delivery unit that we have established in the Executive Office to work with all Departments in seeking to improve on a number of the barriers.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is something that every Government across the globe struggles with, but, by working collectively — not just the parties in the Executive but with the official Opposition — we will, hopefully, find a number of interventions to significantly improve the roll-out of capital development and delivery in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I assure the House that a number of different initiatives and projects are under way. We hope to bring our investment strategy to the Executive very shortly. Unlike previous iterations, the new investment strategy will take a longer view and look out to 2050. We hope that it will mean that longer-term planning will support the delivery.”
“Absolutely. There is a huge incentive across government to do better when it comes to big infrastructure projects, but to do that we must identify the problems and barriers to delivery. We have the slowest planning processes anywhere on these isles. We know that: so how do we fix it? If the costs are projected 10 years before the final costs come in, of course, there are going to be factors, such as overruns, that influence the costs and related increases. However, those issues are by no means unique to us. Research carried out by the National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) identified similar issues across the UK, but it also found that UK costs were, in many cases, not dissimilar from international benchmarks.”
“We know that delivery has not been achieved in the way that other Ministers have wanted it over the years, but we have a determination to fix and change what needs to be done in order to deliver in this term and beyond. I will give way.”
“Although we talk about oversight, the establishment of new bodies and independence, democratic accountability is important in all of this. It is about joined-up working, not necessarily about the creation of a new body. We are not ruling that out as a possibility at this juncture, nor are we saying that it is the only option on the table. We are absolutely open to looking at a range of options that may be available to us as long as they work. We want something that works, and I am giving a genuine commitment on behalf of the First Minister and myself, because, as I have said many times, we are focused on delivery.”
“In the Programme for Government is a desire to genuinely improve people's lives, and that must mean addressing the vital public services of education and health in order to deliver for people. The infrastructure that is required to deliver those services for people is again at the heart. <BR /> <BR />We therefore acknowledge the concerns that have been raised. Indeed, we share them. We also share a commitment to tackling the issues that we face, but, as Members have said, although the motion suggests one potential solution, we need to look much more widely. We do not believe that simply creating another commission will be the panacea for the issues and challenges that we face. Whatever we do must address them.”
“I agree with the Member that it is about the cost of the lost opportunity and the wasted hours and about the additional bureaucracy, staffing or whatever else that may be required in order to operate within infrastructure that is not fit for purpose. When we look at NI Water's infrastructure, for example, we see that the challenge is the stopping of housebuilding and of the economic development that we require in order to grow our economy. <BR /> <BR />At the heart of everything that we want to do — it is right there in the Programme for Government — is an objective to grow our economy. We can do that only if we fix and improve how we do infrastructure, because infrastructure is at the heart of it all.”
“<BR /> <BR />Delays with capital projects have a real-life impact that is felt not just on roads but on hospitals, schools and so many other things that have been set out by ministerial teams in the Executive year after year and that, unfortunately, because of delays and overruns, the Executive have not been able to stand over and say at the end of the mandate, "We have delivered this". I know that the Executive want to address and fix the issues, no matter how difficult and challenging doing so might be.”
“Think of all those people sitting in traffic, wasting precious minutes and hours of their life every week, who could really benefit from that scheme. Of course, it would be remiss of me not to recommend using public transport as a sustainable option. It is, however, not just about people wasting their time but about what they could be doing with that time to be productive, to contribute to the economy and to make their life happier and more content with friends and family instead of sitting there.”
“Without a doubt, I know that no Minister goes into their role expecting or desiring not to deliver the capital projects in their portfolio. <BR /> <BR />On the point about accountability that the proposer of the motion referenced in his speech, I will say that Ministers are accountable for the capital projects in their portfolio. There is no doubt about that. Some of those projects can be cross-cutting, which presents a different set of unique challenges to be overcome, but neither is there any doubt that the way in which we are doing things is not working. It is not working for Ministers, not working for the Executive, not working for this place and, most importantly, not working for the people who require services, such as the much-desired York Street interchange.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank Members for their contributions on this important topic and the proposer of the motion for giving us the opportunity to highlight what we are already doing to improve how we plan and deliver infrastructure and, importantly, the opportunity to reflect on what more needs to be done. <BR /> <BR />I begin by acknowledging the issues that the Public Accounts Committee identified and the updated NIAO reports, which highlight a significant overspend on major capital projects. I have no doubt that there has been a high degree of commonality across political parties over the years in our deep frustration at the lack of delivery, the slow delivery or the overspends on infrastructure projects. Over many years, I have had the privilege of working with many Ministers from different parties.”
“On the back of a very successful Olympics, I have no doubt that yet more sporting success will be coming, not just for Rory but for all our incredible sports stars in so many different fields. A huge well done to Rory: we are all incredibly proud of you.”
“What an incredible set-up for the Open, which will come to Northern Ireland this summer. There is no better way to promote the wonderful golf operations here, our golf courses and our tourism offering and to set us up for, hopefully, a fantastic Open in Portrush this summer. I also recognise Rory's incredible charitable work. <BR /> <BR />I am not going to start to name all our incredible sporting stars, but, my goodness, Northern Ireland packs an incredible sporting punch on the international stage. I have no doubt that, per head of population, we are world-leading across so many different fields.”
“It is incredible for Northern Ireland to have that to differentiate us in a very crowded market in which we are trying to get noticed for inward investment and to promote our tourism and everything that is wonderful about this place. Golf is a really good way to do that. <BR /> <BR />Very recently, I was a member of Holywood Golf Club. I do not have any time any more, so, alas, I have given it up. However, Holywood Golf Club is a fantastic golf club. My husband is still a member there. I put on record the brilliance of Holywood Golf Club and how proud of Rory everyone in that club is. They know more than anyone the incredible hard work that his parents put in to support Rory's achievements from a young age. However, what he has achieved is very much down to his hard work.”
“It is an absolute honour to get the opportunity to stand in this place and extend my huge congratulations to Rory on a magnificent victory. Indeed, completing the career Grand Slam is an incredible and remarkable thing. I am glad that we have had the opportunity to come here to say a huge well done to Rory. <BR /> <BR />I recognise those from North Down who are claiming Rory — rightfully so — but it is important to say that people from not only North Down but the entirety of Northern Ireland are incredibly proud of Rory and what he has achieved. As he said himself, his is a testimony of resilience and of getting back up even in the tough times and coming back in order to do an incredible thing. <BR /> <BR />Rory is such an ambassador for this place. When I was over in DC for St Patrick's Day, a number of people mentioned Rory and golf.”
“They are principles that we can all agree with, regardless of our theology, politics, faith or beliefs; principles that each of us should seek to live by in our public service; and principles that are core to my personal faith. <BR /> <BR />The loss of Pope Francis will continue to be felt deeply by the Church that he led and will be felt most by the many congregations here and across the world. May God give comfort to all who mourn.”
“I offer my sincere condolences to all who are in mourning on the passing of Pope Francis. <BR /> <BR />His journey was remarkable, from humble beginnings as a caretaker to joining the priesthood and then serving as Pope, breaking precedent to be the first Pope to come from Latin America. The many comments and messages over the past days demonstrate the profound respect and admiration that people held for Pope Francis not only here in Northern Ireland but across the rest of the United Kingdom, in Ireland and across the globe. The many public statements made on his passing were notable for their common themes of compassion, of a humble spirit and of caring for and giving to those in need. I have no doubt that Pope Francis would have wished those principles to be his legacy.”
“As I indicated in response to questions last week, my concern is entirely about the cost of this, the reasoning for doing this right now and the added value of it, given the work of the UK-wide Climate Change Committee, at a time of significant financial pressure on our public services. That is my position; I have articulated it. I put on record that there is a difference of views, but we are moving forward, because this is a legal obligation. Until the House amends the legislation, it will remain a legal obligation.”
“I thank the First Minister for giving way. It is important to put on record that the First Minister is, indeed, responding to the debate on behalf of the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. It is also important that I distance myself from some of the personal remarks that the First Minister has made today in response to the debate. I am sure that those around the House will understand fully that there is a range of views. Of course, on many of the issues referred to by the First Minister, there is a different view in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. <BR /> <BR />This is being moved forward because we recognise that there is a legal requirement on the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister.”
“No, I do not agree with the Member. There is a significant amount of investment across language and cultural issues in Northern Ireland, including the Irish language. There is significant investment in everything from the broadcast fund to Irish-medium education and cultural organisations. We heard reference to funding issues in Foras na Gaeilge. That organisation receives £14 million a year for activities, North and South. Significant funding goes in. <BR /> <BR />There are legitimate questions to be asked about that particular decision, not least the cost of it, and the local community consultations and arrangements that were in place. The decision appears to have ridden roughshod over them. Those are legitimate questions, and I will continue to ask them. As I said, I will be raising the issue at the Executive meeting on Thursday.”
“They are legitimate questions, and we want the answers to them.”
“It is important that we ask questions about all the issues. It is unclear why the decision has been made. Did the Minister make that decision and impose it on Translink? Did Translink make the decision under the direction of the Minister? Is there a justification? Many people will ask what the justification is for ripping out nearly new signs costing £120,000 and replacing them with different signs because a particular Minister has a particular political agenda. Those are legitimate questions, and we make no apology for asking them. We will continue to ask those questions. Of course, importantly, we want to get the answers, and, on the back of that, I commit to the House that I will raise the matter at the Executive on Thursday. There is already correspondence in the system asking for answers to those questions.”
“Yes, absolutely. I am pleased to confirm that, certainly from a Northern Ireland and UK perspective, those benefits will not be impacted by any payment. We are having discussions with the Republic of Ireland to make sure of that, because we are conscious that there has been movement north and south. Some people who are eligible for payments will reside and be taxpayers in the Republic of Ireland. I asked for the issue to be on the agenda of the North/South meeting some six months ago, I think, and we had the opportunity to raise it directly with the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste. It is an important one, because we do not want people being penalised and, perhaps, knocked off the support that they get because they get rightful acknowledgement and recognition through a payment by the redress scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to those who have campaigned on the issue across these isles, not just in Northern Ireland. It has been a long and very traumatic journey for them, but I am hopeful that we are now reaching the point at which we will commence a number of key measures. We really appreciate those people sticking with us, and we hope to deliver for them.”
“I thank the Member for his question. That is important work for the Department. It is a sensitive piece of work, given what we are trying to achieve, and I am really pleased that we have been able to make some progress. The work that we are doing, particularly on the mother-and-baby homes, has been very much shaped by the initial report. There are many elements to that, and some of that will interplay with what is happening elsewhere. However, we have our own unique set of structures here, including the panel. We recently met the victims and survivors on the inquiry, the legislation being moved forward and the redress scheme. Unlike with other schemes, this will probably the first time that a redress scheme has opened as the inquiry is taking place in recognition that there were clearly failings in and around all of this.”
“It is a really exciting time not just for Northern Ireland as a whole but for the north-west, and that was definitely the message that we got when we were up just last week.”
“Yes, of course. We have been clear that we want to see Northern Ireland thrive, and that does not mean just Belfast and the greater Belfast area. We represent different constituencies across this place, and I know that we will always fight for the best deal for all of our constituencies. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right. If we are to see the economic growth that we want across Northern Ireland, that must mean that every part of it — every town and every city — can thrive and do well. There are really exciting things happening in the north-west. We have been up several times in the last month or so, and, each time we have been up, we have seen such exciting businesses and organisations. We were at the AMP, I think it is called, where there was a lot of innovation and creativity happening.”
“<BR /> <BR />We truly hope that Ebrington will be an economic driver and that the north-west will see the benefit not just through investment or the creation of jobs but through the creation of good jobs with good remuneration, which will make a big difference to people.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is always fantastic to be up in the north-west. It was a successful visit. It was great to see a dynamic company such as Alchemy move into Ebrington Plaza and be its first tenant. That is good to see, because the Executive Office has invested so much. Over £30 million, I think, has been invested in the Ebrington site, because we wanted it to unlock the city's economic potential. We have the link to the site from the bridge and the buildings themselves. I am pleased to confirm that all the buildings now have tenants signed up to them or are being held for tenants, and we are working with them at the moment. Ebrington Plaza is heading towards full capacity in due course.”
“We absolutely want people to have that enjoyment in spite of their loss and what happened to them.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We see that clearly. At the moment, the victims' pension scheme is open. There is no doubt from the feedback that we get that many people are not just suffering trauma now but have suffered it for many decades and need help and support. The mental health side of things is huge. I am pleased to say that, as well as the victims and survivors strategy, the interface between the Victims and Survivors Service and the Department of Health gave rise to the Regional Trauma Network. As part of the assessments done of people who came forward, it was recognised how great that need was. <BR /> <BR />There needs to be more investment in this area. As we know, bad mental health is such a barrier not just to life's enjoyment but to being able to get out there, get a job, stay in that job and provide for a family.”
“I was glad to see that, in the review of the previous strategy and in the new strategy, we had already identified many of the needs. We will, however, look at some new areas, such as a capital scheme, and we will ramp up our support for tackling the intergenerational trauma that is emerging.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The victims and survivors strategy has been published. Key actions and schemes arise from it. We have asked in particular that the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS) take a look at introducing a capital scheme to support some capital works. We are conscious that, across our incredible victims and survivors' organisations, many have not had the ability to apply for capital. That could be for anything from the replacement of kitchens or other facilities to making their premises more disabled-friendly. That is such an important issue because of the cohort with which those groups do such great work, and many of the buildings require that capital work. <BR /> <BR />We take a needs-based approach.”
“We will do everything in our power to support that happening.”
“Many will say this: be careful what you wish for. People had a sense that the current Government would spend and would invest in public services. As I have said, though, that did not happen, because there simply is not that economic growth across the UK. That is because of decisions that the Chancellor made at the previous fiscal event. She should reverse those decisions, and I will support calls for her to do so. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, as across the UK, we want to support people back into work. People want to see any fraud being tackled, and that includes tax evasion, not just benefit fraud. For those who need help, however, it should be there for them. They are the people who should not be penalised. I therefore urge the Chancellor to reverse her decisions and to put in place the necessary steps to achieve economic growth.”
“Instead, this is a Chancellor who decided to balance the books on the backs of those who are least capable of sustaining it. Therefore, I support the efforts that we will make to ask the Chancellor to change tack and start to put in place the actions that are required to get that economic growth so that it can produce the much-needed funds that we want to invest in our public services and support people instead of making life more difficult for them.”
“I thank the Member for that really important question. I have no doubt that she, like me and many across the Chamber, will have been contacted over the weekend by many people who are apprehensive about what is being proposed and about how they will get by. <BR /> <BR />The Chancellor needed economic growth. We do not have economic growth across the UK, but it is required in order to give the Treasury the money to spend on vital public services and to tackle the underinvestment in our public services. The Chancellor did not get that from her Budget statement, because, in my view, she stifled that economic growth through measures such as the increases to employers' National Insurance contributions. That was an opportunity for her to change course and reverse out of the bad decisions that she made that have stifled growth.”
“A particular situation with funding came about because of an Irish Government issue with pensions in that organisation. The Communities Minister is working with the Irish Government to find a resolution to that. <BR /> <BR />It is incredibly important that people have the ability to raise concerns about Grand Central station and ask why it is proposed that £120,000 be spent to rip out and replace nearly new signs at a difficult financial time. That is a perfectly legitimate question. I am here to protect and support our public services and to try to make sure that people live the best life that they can with the quality of services that they deserve.”
“I assure the Member that I will continue to work for everyone throughout this place, because this one thing is for sure: I am focused on growing the economy, providing good jobs, getting an affordable childcare strategy and tackling those health waiting lists in order to support people throughout the community in Northern Ireland. As I said 14 months ago, those things do not discriminate. They are our core public services, and I am absolutely focused on doing that work. <BR /> <BR />I do not agree with her categorisation of a number of the issues. A proposal was put forward to change the funding formula for all North/South bodies. That was set in place at the time of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, and it was there for a reason.”
“Yes, absolutely. I very much hope that I have demonstrated that in the 14 months that I have been in this role. I am deeply proud of the place that we call "home". I am deeply proud of Northern Ireland. I will champion Northern Ireland at every opportunity. Our biggest strength is our people, the richness of our diversity and all that brings us together, as well as our commonality and our ambition. I will champion every person, every community and every part of this place at every opportunity.”
“<BR /> <BR />The 250th anniversary is a fantastic opportunity that gives us the chance to explain and explore the rich shared heritage that Northern Ireland, particularly the Ulster region, has with the US and how many Ulster Scots or Scots Irish, as they are called in America, have links to politics, business, commerce and culture; indeed, my briefing for the trip said that 11 presidents had links to the Ulster area. Gordon Lyons, our Communities Minister, who did a fantastic job at promoting this all week, said that it was 17. I am pretty sure that, by the time we get to the 250th anniversary next year, all 47 presidents will have an established link to Northern Ireland and the Ulster region. We will do everything in our power to promote that as much as possible.”
“I thank the Member for her question. With a name like Hanna, of course, we know that there are strong Ulster-Scots links, and I commend the Member on all the work that she does to promote the rich heritage and culture of the Ulster-Scots community. It is a fantastic opportunity. It was notable, when I was in the US, how many people around the current Administration and across so many of the engagements mentioned matters such as the golf in Northern Ireland. That shows that it is not about just the economic offering and not always about the hard sell; it is also about soft diplomacy and using the unique, incredible things that we have to really get noticed in what is often a crowded market vying for investment.”
“<BR /> <BR />The First Minister and I are fully committed to building on the relationships that we have not just in DC but in key locations across the US and Canada where economic opportunity, strategic partnerships and policy innovations can help us to deliver our ambition in the Programme for Government.”
“Building on our successful visit to the US, the Northern Ireland Bureau in North America is developing a plan for engagement across the US and Canada. The plan will take into account the Programme for Government, the emerging priorities of the Trump Administration and our core strengths in relevant areas such as cyber and tech, creative industries, the Open and Ulster-Scots links to the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. The plan will maintain Northern Ireland's bipartisan support by engaging with the next generation of leaders from both main parties to promote Northern Ireland's exceptional cultural, political and economic offer.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Of course, we all want to see peace in that region, and I am sure that we want to extend our support to those who seek to cement that peace, because that is the best way of avoiding the terrible human toll of any conflict, no matter where that is. I did not have an opportunity to raise that issue directly with the president. However, I briefly touched on Ukraine and our desire to see peace in that region and to urge a peaceful resolution there. <BR /> <BR />My conversation with the president very much focused on Northern Ireland. You do not get many opportunities to do that at that level, so, in championing Northern Ireland, I wanted to make sure that our voice was clearly heard and that Northern Ireland was on his radar, particularly in the context of the ongoing discussions on tariffs.”
“I assure the Member that, absolutely, I took the opportunity throughout the week to raise that issue with everyone who would listen, including the new UK ambassador to the US, Lord Mandelson. I asked for his support in his representations to and engagement with the US Administration. I raised it directly with the president in my conversation with him, and I outlined clearly how positive the economic links had been and how much we appreciated that support and help in making sure that Northern Ireland was heard. I took the opportunity to raise the issue with a number of people, including the nominee for US ambassador to the UK. I had a good, lengthy and detailed conversation with him not just about tariffs but on that issue and about how he can use his role to champion Northern Ireland to the US Administration.”