Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“The letter is currently under consideration, but it will say what I have just said to the House. The junior Minister and four other Sinn Féin MLAs received an invitation to the event. The junior Minister wanted to go as junior Minister, but it was not agreed for her to attend in that capacity. The letter clearly offered five tickets to Sinn Féin Members, whether those Members were named in that email or whether they went to other people. <BR /> <BR />I want to be very clear: the events of that night were disgraceful. There were plenty of people there, including, it appears, a number of Sinn Féin MLAs and other people.”
“She therefore attended it in her capacity as a constituency MLA.”
“As is common from time to time, when we receive invitations to our constituency office accounts, we will forward them to the Department to ask for them to be considered as ministerial invitations. Understandably, people who are out and about do not necessarily make a distinction between a consistency office email and the departmental account. <BR /> <BR />In this case, junior Minister Reilly had received an invitation with, I think, four other Sinn Féin MLAs copied into it, offering five tickets to the event. That is what was forwarded to the Department, and junior Minister Reilly had requested to attend the event as a junior Minister. I can only assume — I do not know, because the junior Minister did not attend the event as a junior Minister — that it was not accepted as a junior Minister event.”
“The Executive Office received one item of correspondence regarding the event at Belfast City Hall on 19 October 2024, which was an invitation dated 9 September 2024 forwarded by junior Minister Aisling Reilly from her constituency office to the Ministers' mailbox.”
“The number of convictions for paramilitary-related and criminal gang-related offences has increased sevenfold since the beginning of the programme. <BR /> <BR />That is evidence that it is working, but we should stand together and say clearly that criminal gangs and paramilitarism are absolutely wrong and that there is no place for them in our society. They need to go away. They should never have been there in the first place. I really support all such interventions to support communities to be resilient against such organisations.”
“With such projects, it can be difficult to drill down into them, because a lot of what they are trying to do involves stopping things happening. They are trying to stop young people being dragged into antisocial behaviour. They are trying to stop young people being pulled into paramilitary organisations and criminal gangs, and they are trying to provide better opportunities and outcomes for young people. It can therefore be difficult to determine some of the outcomes, but I am really pleased to say that, since the beginning of the programme — not that programme alone, because there are communities working together across so many interventions — we have seen a 60% reduction in paramilitary-style attacks. There has been a 70% reduction in the number of households reporting homelessness due to paramilitary intimidation.”
“If something works in a particular scheme, let us look at expanding it and mainstreaming it into other interventions that we have. We need better collaboration and cooperation. There is so much to work with, because there have been examples of really good practice here.”
“There has been huge investment made under the programme, with £29 million invested across the eight CIT areas. The real focus has been on tackling some of the root causes that can create the vulnerability through which people are dragged into antisocial behaviour, paramilitarism or crime. We are looking at community resilience, prevention and support for addiction and mental health. We are looking at trying to provide better opportunities, with ambition for the young people who live in those communities. There has been a huge amount of success. Yes, there is frustration that it has been limited to some geographical locations, but there is lots of really good practice that we can roll out. <BR /> <BR />One of the issues that I am passionate about is making sure that we get better collaboration.”
“We are trying to integrate more flexibility into the planned interventions programme. In the aftermath of what happened in the summer and the previous summer, we need to have programmes that can commence really quickly and work with young people. The idea of having a lengthy application process, where it is six or 12 months before the outcome is found out, is not fit for purpose. We are actively looking at that, and we want to work with all communities to make sure that programmes are fit for purpose.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have asked the Department to pick up on that, and Urban Villages is good at picking up on those needs, but we are conscious that it does not have a rural aspect — the clue is in the name "Urban Villages". We want to extend the scheme and take the learning on co-designing a series of interventions to increase community resilience and community social capital to ensure that all communities are able to engage in enduring cross-community work with confidence. We can spread the work outside the urban areas into the rural areas.”
“I thank the Member for her important question because that is an issue that is very close to my heart. Very often, the challenges that a community faces can be hidden because of its location, whether in a rural area or in a city or town, where it is surrounded by relative wealth. That is why, over the years, I have supported schemes that are nuanced enough to pick up on those challenges. The reality is that if you have a need, it does not matter where you are living, and your ability to access the services can be very different depending on whether you live in a rural area or one that does not score under neighbourhood renewal or other schemes.”
“We are aware that many of our communities continue to be impacted on by paramilitarism and drugs, including those in rural and semi-rural areas. Communities in Transition (CIT), which is part of the Executive programme on paramilitarism and organised crime, delivers support across the eight designated areas identified as those most impacted on by paramilitarism and organised crime, with a key focus on paramilitarism and drugs. <BR /> <BR />Although North Antrim is not formally included in CIT, it is part of the planned interventions programme, which funds community activity to engage young people most at risk of entering the youth justice system and/or at risk of paramilitary recruitment. By providing positive alternatives for our young people, the programme mitigates the impacts that antisocial behaviour can have on community tensions.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right, we are working with local community groups on collaboration because we want to make sure that not only the local community benefits from the scheme but other organisations can come in to complement and supplement the arts offering in that area, which has a rich history, heritage and diversity.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. I was pleased to see those additional projects come through, not least the tunnel project, which has been on the go since before my involvement in South Belfast. I am pleased that we were able to include some additional projects, including the Westland community centre. I met representatives from the Westland community, maybe 10 years ago, and they needed that service. I am pleased to see its inclusion, both the political commitment and the flexibility in the scheme. I am also pleased that the School of Music has been included. There have been a number of Urban Villages projects there, which demonstrates the delivery of everything from play parks to re-imaging to the exciting project at the police station, and the School of Music coming on board is a welcome development.”
“I thank the Member for his hard work for the community, and both our North Belfast representatives have been heavily involved in the North Belfast Urban Villages scheme. I know that because I get actively lobbied on their constituents' behalf to ensure that those schemes move forward. There is an absolute commitment from the Executive Office for the Sunningdale project. There have been difficulties with the planning system, but we remain committed to the scheme. We will work with the local community to navigate the changes and, importantly, to ensure that we deliver the outcome, which is a facility and services for the Sunningdale community.”
“<BR /> <BR />As we move to phase 2 of Urban Villages, we should reflect on its huge success. It has been a success in many areas. There have been lots of nuances and differences in the schemes. The First Minister and I are actively looking at phase 2. The programme should absolutely roll forward, because it has provided much support. We are looking at areas to see where we can maximise that type of investment through the Executive Office.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. As he will be aware, I was very much involved in the creation of Urban Villages. The junior Minister at the time, who represented the area, and I engaged with people in the Colin area. I felt very strongly that there were significant gaps in service provision. I very passionately supported Colin's inclusion in a programme that I created and helped to develop. The programme is a commitment to work with communities — that means all communities — right across Northern Ireland. I am really pleased to see that the local community's hard work has contributed to the collaborative design, the actions that are being taken and the investment from the Executive Office, which has transformed the Colin area, as he is well aware.”
“Urban Villages helps to drive regeneration and community development across the area, providing much-needed physical regeneration, creating safer communities and making a positive difference to people's lives.”
“The Urban Villages initiative has had a positive impact on communities in Belfast and Londonderry. In the Colin area of West Belfast, a total of £12·7 million has been invested — £10·4 million to support 11 capital projects and over £2·3 million in revenue funding. Capital investment has included a £5·6 million transformation of 15 acres of derelict land into a new park, as well as new community centres, a football and community club, a healthy living centre and a transport hub. Revenue funding has supported 275 events and 575 workshops, engaging more than 24,500 participants. <BR /> <BR />Support that Urban Villages provides will ensure the sustainability of investment and support local community organisations to create a lasting, positive legacy for the community.”
“As a woman, I never consented to my rights being diminished by that definition being changed or by evolving attempts to change it. However, what we see now is an Equality Commission that is arguing that to reset that to a common-sense definition of biological male or female is somehow a diminution of somebody else's rights. That is wrong. It is absolutely bonkers; we need to get back to common sense and to stop wasting money on that type of thing.”
“That aligns with my answers to the substantive and supplementary questions. At this difficult time of fiscal constraint, people should be looking at what they are doing and making decisions that are based on what best serves people. I do not believe that that legal action is necessary at all. It is more legal action, more cost and more delay, but on what? It is about common sense, and common sense must prevail. I think that most people find the issue to be completely bonkers, not because they want to hate on anyone but because it is common sense that the definition of a man or a woman is related to biological sex. More important is the reality that there should be, and must be, safe spaces and female-only spaces, be they in changing rooms, toilets or places of sanctuary. It is also about fairness. We have seen that play out in sport.”
“That is not uncommon across the system, because we are carrying a significant number of vacancies. Part of that is because of the challenges within our budget and trying to ensure efficiency across our system.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Equality Commission has operational independence from the Executive Office. There is, of course, concern among many people out there about the commission's prioritising. Just this week, we have seen further action being launched in relation to the Supreme Court judgement on the definition of "sex" and the biological definition of "man" and "woman". I do not believe that that is necessary expenditure; however, the commission is operationally independent, and that is a decision that it can make. However, the question is about whether it should make that decision. Should it prioritise it? I advise the Member that the commission has a full-time equivalent staff cohort of just over 100 and is carrying a significant number of vacancies. Just under 50 staff are in place.”
“We always want to work in a collaborative way to ensure, as far as possible, that those groups get sufficient funding and, as I said, sufficient notice of the funding that they will get; hopefully, the three-year Budget process will really help with that.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. From speaking to groups, including our arm's-length bodies, we know that they could always do more with more — there is no doubt about that — and, indeed, we have to make difficult decisions in order to balance that with the budget that we are allocated. I have no doubt that the Equality Commission wants to do more and that it could do more if it had a bigger budget, but it has a sizeable budget of almost £5 million. In this case, that budget is very much for the commission itself, because the groups on the ground are funded through a range of Departments, agencies, councils etc.”
“We are actively looking at options to support those groups. The fact that we, as an Executive, had such late notice of the replacement of that funding with the local growth fund is unacceptable, as is the impact of that on employees in the organisations that are still in a position of uncertainty.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. We want to ensure that there is adequate funding for community groups across all areas, including those in the equality space that work with older people, younger people, people with disabilities and many more. It is important that they are properly funded and that they know well in advance what funding they will get for the coming year. There is no doubt that the three-year Budget will help with that process. <BR /> <BR />As the Member is, no doubt, aware, however, there is a particular issue with the ending of the Shared Prosperity Fund and its transition into the local growth fund. I have corresponded with and spoken directly to the Finance Minister on that issue. I have worked with a number of groups throughout Northern Ireland that are very concerned about that transition.”
“The Executive Office is committed to ensuring that the Equality Commission has the resources required to fulfil its statutory responsibilities, including those that it has under evolving equality standards. The commission has been allocated £4·7 million in resource and capital budget from the Executive Office for the financial year 2025-26. We engage regularly with the commission, including through quarterly partnership meetings and attendance at its audit and risk assurance committee. That engagement helps to align resources with responsibilities and supports the identification of emerging needs. As an arm’s-length body of the Executive Office, the commission participates in the required forecasting and monitoring budgetary processes.”
“They do not have a lot of money to put towards excessive costs. This need to be addressed.”
“We know that many people across Northern Ireland, particularly older people, rely on their companion animal for tackling loneliness as a best friend that they love and care about deeply.”
“It is really important because, first, while we oppose the Windsor framework, it indicated agreement that there would be limited or no diversion of trade, but what we are seeing with veterinary medicines is an entire diversion of trade to other markets and away from the GB market. That needs to be addressed. Secondly, others may say that we have reduced the proportion of medicines affected to 5% or 10%, but, if you are a dog owner or you have a companion animal that is reliant on the drugs that are among that 5% to 10%, that is everything to you, and the cost is very significant.”
“As the First Minister will know, I have raised the outstanding issue on veterinary medicines at every single opportunity with the UK Government, whether that is with Nick Thomas–Symonds, the Prime Minister or our Secretary of State. The clock is ticking. The issue needs to be resolved. It will add significantly to the costs that pet owners have to pay for essential medicines for their animals. It will add lots of costs for our farming community and vets. We need to get the issue resolved. I call on the UK Government to act urgently to get the matter resolved immediately and to prevent the grace period from ending and the crisis continuing into 2026.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He has been a champion for our farming industry for so many years in this place. This is an important issue not just for the farming community but for pet owners. Many people are getting notifications indicating that, from January 2026, they will no longer be able to buy their pet medication online from GB suppliers. The UK Government must address the issue urgently. <BR /> <BR />We have an indication from the UK Government that they are moving in the direction of getting an agreement with the EU, particularly in relation to sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) measures. In my view, that should remove any of the European Union's apprehensions or concerns that prevent a resolution on veterinary medicines from going ahead.”
“As indicated, I feel that it was inappropriate for the head of the Civil Service to have been brought into the matter by others in this place. Indeed, I have no doubt that the head of the Civil Service would not want to put herself in the middle of what is essentially a political argument. She has a formal, professional role as head of the Civil Service, and that role absolutely does not include any investigation into Ministers or Ministers' decisions.”
“I am very clear that, while the head of the Civil Service may wish to provide him with factual information, as she would to anyone who corresponds with her, she is not accountable to the leader of the Opposition, and she is not empowered to sit in judgement of a democratically elected Minister of Education.”
“I thank the Member for that important question. It is really unfortunate that there have been comments in this place in relation to that matter. We need to be very careful about the limitations of the role of the head of the Civil Service. She has confirmed that she is only engaged in fact-finding and does not have a role in such investigations or inquiries. It is always important to recognise that it is the Minister who takes the decisions in their Department. <BR /> <BR />As you said, the leader of the Opposition has written to the head of the Civil Service seeking certain information on and an assessment of whether the NICS code of ethics has been breached.”
“I will always do my part, but I ask you to respect the fact that 11 November is a hugely important day in my community, which includes so many people who served, and that, in this case, I am unable to attend an event because of an invitation from His Majesty the King and Her Majesty the Queen to pay tribute to veterans. There will be future opportunities to engage with the new president of Ireland and, indeed, to build relationships east-west and North/South.”
“I am sorry. I was interrupted. <BR /> <BR />As I indicated, that characterisation is unfair. Given that the matter is so serious, I will not get involved in what is an attempt to score political points. I have gone to events throughout Northern Ireland, and I have gone to events on my own, such as when I went to Normandy to pay tribute, despite the fact that 70,000 soldiers from what is now the Republic of Ireland also served there. I paid tribute to those soldiers, too. Likewise, there are events that Michelle, as First Minister, attends on her own, and there are things that we have done together. A generous approach would be to recognise that both of us have been out there talking to people from across Northern Ireland.”
“That was quite a lengthy statement. I will not rise to political point-scoring.”
“That is an opportunity not only to pay our respects to an incredible generation that did incredible things but to recognise the fact that so many people, mainly young men, who came from this small place went right across the globe, risking their lives and giving their lives or getting injured in those frightening and dangerous circumstances, to fight for peace and democracy for all of us. The very least that I can do is go along to pay my respects and tribute to them.”
“There is a real appetite among some people to make the matter into a political football and use it to indicate political division or to score political points. That is not what this is about. I got an invitation to the event on Thursday morning. I have commitments on an issue that is very important to me, not least because my grandfather, my great-grandfather and so many people in my family served and were severely injured in the wars. I have committed to attend the service and pay my respects in remembrance here. I also have committed to go to Windsor Castle and pay tribute, in the 80th anniversary year of Victory in Japan, to the veterans of the Asia-Pacific theatre of World War II.”
“As I indicated, I recognise that it is a huge day personally for the incoming president. I have sought to have a personal call with her in recognition of her very significant personal achievement and what she is about to embark on. I advise the Member that, looking back, there has been a huge amount of engagement not just with the Taoiseach but with Simon Harris and the Irish Government as part of our North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) and British-Irish Council (BIC) engagement. We have had a number of very constructive discussions, and I believe in building constructive relationships. Much of what we are trying to drive forward in order to improve people's lives is based on having those constructive relationships.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. I can advise him that I strive to represent everyone across Northern Ireland in everything that I do, be that by condemning acts of violence or by building a better and brighter future for everyone here. I genuinely believe in doing that and am firmly committed to it. When people reflect on my time as deputy First Minister, they will see that I strongly indicated from my very first speech that I wanted to be a deputy First Minister who worked with and for everyone. I believe that I have demonstrated that not just through the wide range of events that I have attended but through generosity of spirit, which is something that we all need to have. <BR /> <BR />The Taoiseach, the Irish Government and others understand completely the importance of 11 November.”
“I know that some commentators have said that it is a very significant date for unionists, but it should be a significant date for everyone across Northern Ireland, given the immense sacrifice that so many from this part of the UK on this island made, as, of course, did many from the Republic of Ireland as well.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The inauguration event commences at 11.00 am on 11 November, and, as he said, he is acutely aware of the date's importance. It is an unfortunate clash, and my statement outlined why I cannot attend. I will be here with him, and I hope not only to attend that service of sombre reflection and remembrance but to take part in another act of remembrance. <BR /> <BR />Of course, whom a party decides to send is a matter for that party, and I stand here as deputy First Minister. I advise him, however, that no matter whether people are councillors, MPs or MLAs, tomorrow is a very significant date.”
“I appeal to Sinn Féin, and to my colleague in this office, to lift that restriction in order to allow for the economic potential of a site on the main Belfast to Dublin corridor to be fulfilled while discussions continue on dealing with the difficult legacy issues. All kinds of economic development and businesses would be interested in using the site, given that it is key strategically and given its importance to my Lagan Valley constituency. I therefore reiterate my appeal to lift that condition on economic development and allow for it to go ahead in order to unleash the incredible potential of the Maze/Long Kesh site, not just for Lagan Valley but for all of Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her question. This has been a source of real frustration for me. I am a representative for Lagan Valley, and, speaking personally and in that capacity, I say that I do not agree with the Sinn Féin position that nothing can happen on that site until it gets its way in relation to the listed buildings. The listed buildings issue is a sensitive issue. There is the potential for a huge amount of hurt, depending on what happens there, particularly for victims and survivors. The then deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, made it clear that no or very little economic development could happen on that site unless there was an agreement on those listed buildings.”
“That is something that we need to take into account, and we are actively looking at that. Work is ongoing, but we are considering a number of key issues and trying to bring forward something that will make a meaningful difference, as opposed to having a document simply for a document's sake.”
“The real challenge that we face is the fact that almost all of the capital that is projected to be available over the next 10 to 15 to 20 years has, as I said, already been committed by previous agreements and commitments on those flagship projects, the roads programme and the schools programme. As the Education Minister has said in this place, if we were to do for schools all the capital work that has been promised, all of the education capital programme for the next 20-plus years would be eaten up. That is the reality of what we face. <BR /> <BR />We also need to acknowledge that there have been significant changes from this time last year with the A5 judgement and the climate change legislation potentially having a significant impact on big public-sector capital projects.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He is well aware that none of those things is impacted on by the long-term investment strategy, which sets the overarching framework. The Executive and everyone in this place knows that we need to fix roads and that we need new roads; we know that we need to fix schools and that we need new-build schools; we need more physical SEN provision; and we know what commitments exist with regard to flagship projects and outstanding issues. The A5 will not be impacted on by the ISNI being there or not. <BR /> <BR />We need to be honest with the public, and we need to be clear with the public.”