Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“We will also place stories in local and international media to try to promote to the readership the fact that the scheme remains open and to encourage them to come forward before it closes next year.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As we head towards the closure date of the scheme next year, we want to make sure that we reach those who are entitled to that support. There have been a number of previous campaigns, including a leaflet that was put through every door. However, we want to make sure in the last months of the scheme, so there will be a new campaign, including radio adverts. We have written to all MLAs and various organisations asking them to share the information. We have also sent the information to all councils across the UK and Ireland and, indeed, have reached out to organisations that we have worked with before in, for example, Australia to try to support that.”
“That is a significant amount of work that the board has completed. That is why we are appealing to any remaining victims and survivors to come forward and seek that redress, if they have not done so already.”
“The Hart report, following the inquiry into historical institutional abuse, very clearly highlighted things that a number of institutions did wrong in the treatment of children in their care. Therefore, of course it is right and proper that there is an acknowledgement of that by those institutions and that those institutions should contribute to the costs. Of course, we are realistic, and we did not want victims and survivors to have to wait for those institutions to decide when and what to give. Therefore, we decided to move forward with the redress board to address and support those victims and survivors, but the negotiations will continue to get that all-important contribution. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to say that the work of the redress board is winding down, and I understand that there are only 38 applications left to be scheduled.”
“We have committed to publishing the details of those contributions when the process has concluded. Members will understand that negotiation is live with a number of those organisations, hence the sensitivity around some of the detail. <BR /> <BR />We encourage all victims and survivors who intend to make an application to the board to do so as soon as possible and in advance of next year’s deadline.”
“We know that victims and survivors, understandably, see contributions from the institutions as an important measure of accountability. We welcome the interim payments that we have received from three institutions: Barnardo's, the De La Salle order and the Good Shepherd Sisters. I am pleased to say that an additional contribution has been made by the Diocese of Down and Connor just this month, specifically in respect of the De La Salle-run homes. Engagement will continue with those institutions on their final contributions following the closure of the Historical Institutional Abuse Redress Board. <BR /> <BR />Constructive discussions on appropriate contributions from the Irish Church Missions, Sisters of Nazareth and the Sisters of St Louis are ongoing.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Member will be aware that that building was listed, as I understand it, at the request of the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland during a period of direct rule and outside the control or context of either the Northern Ireland Executive or the House. I am clear and reiterate this: nothing will happen on that site as long as I am deputy First Minister that would cause hurt and pain to victims and survivors. That is my promise to victims and survivors. I wish to do nothing to cause any further pain and hurt to those who have suffered the most and given the most to Northern Ireland.”
“There are activities at the Eikon Exhibition Centre, and there is the Ulster Aviation Society, an excellent organisation that attracted 7,000 visitors on the European heritage open days weekend. Of course, the Air Ambulance has been based there since 2017, and it has been called out some 4,500 times. Those are some of the activities that take place. Of course I would like to unlock the full potential of the site, but we should recognise the good work that is already happening there.”
“I thank the Member for his question. If he wants to tramp over the concerns of victims, that is up to him. I will not engage in that. I will move forward with the consensus of victims and survivors, because anything that we do should not cause any further concern or hurt. Therefore, it is not for me to decide the way forward and to impose it on those who have been associated with that site and have hurt and sensitivities in relation to it. As I said, I want to unlock the potential of the site, but it has to be done in a particular way and with consensus. <BR /> <BR />The Member is also incorrect when he said that nothing is happening on that site. There are some good activities on that site, not least the Balmoral show, which, I understand, he has attended.”
“In the Executive Office, we have many responsibilities that relate to victims and survivors of the Troubles. That means trying to meet their needs. It also means being sensitive to the concerns and issues that they face. Victims and survivors in Northern Ireland have given the most, and we must always be very sensitive to that as we move forward. We must recognise their loss and the legitimacy of their concerns and issues. As I said, it is therefore important that nothing happens on the site that would further any hurt or pain. Anything that happens must be done with full sensitivity to the victims and survivors.”
“I thank the Member for his question. We had an update from the board. There is a new board in place, with six new members. They are looking at some of the plans and proposals that the previous board made. The new members are still in the early stages of working together, but there is significant talent, enthusiasm and ambition on that board. Anything that the board proposes, including the budget and activities on the site, will require the First Minister and my agreement. As the Member will be aware, however, a number of organisations are on the site, so part of the board's role will be to continue to support those excellent organisations, such as Air Ambulance and the Ulster Aviation Society.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As I outlined, a significant history is associated with the site. It also has huge potential, but we can move forward only with sensitivity to the victims and survivors who are most impacted on by the events that happened on and are associated with that site. That is what I will do.”
“We are committed to working with the development corporation to realise the potential of the site to the benefit of all, but we recognise that we must move only with consensus and sensitivity. No decisions have yet been made on the future of the site.”
“The Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation business plan was submitted to the Executive Office, but we understand that the development corporation is further reviewing it in light of its current budget allocation. The business plan will be revised now that the outcome of the internal reallocation exercise is known. The Member will appreciate that that outcome became known only today. The development corporation will consider that, and that will determine what is achievable from a budgetary perspective. <BR /> <BR />We will consider the updated plan as soon as possible. Once approved, it will be published on the Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation website. In the interim, the Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation continues to operate in line with its agreed remit.”
“I know that she loved representing South Belfast, a constituency with such incredible diversity, and she worked hard for her constituents there. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party, I extend our deepest sympathies to Anna's family, friends and colleagues in the Alliance Party. We extend our heartfelt condolences on Anna's passing and assure them of our thoughts and prayers at this difficult time.”
“Today, we remember Anna Lo, someone whose place in the history of the Assembly and Northern Ireland is assured. When Anna Lo became an MLA for South Belfast in 2007, she made history as a first. Her election was a significant milestone, but the fact that Anna remains the sole MLA from a minority ethnic background highlights how far we still have to go to honour her legacy by making the House more reflective of our increasingly diverse society. <BR /> <BR />Anna was, undoubtedly, much loved by those who knew her and much respected by those who worked with her. As someone who represented South Belfast, I heard that love and respect for her first-hand from so many people in so many places. She genuinely blazed a trail. She did so with passion, ability, commitment and some style.”
“<BR /> <BR />This is a positive way forward for the Executive and provides clear prioritisation. If we fulfil the ambition that we have set out, we will make a real and meaningful difference to people throughout Northern Ireland on the issues that matter most to them.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some valid issues have been raised about older people and making sure that their interests are fully integrated; the underpinning of our infrastructure; the importance of our investment strategy; and the importance of all kinds of other issues from mental health to health, young people, wildlife and peace as a core objective that underlines our work. All those issues are essential, but the Programme for Government is ultimately about prioritisation. It is up to individual Ministers, working in their Departments or cross-departmentally and across agencies, to bring forward a huge suite of additional measures to respond to statutory responsibilities and address the many other concerns in society that are not referenced in this prioritised document.”
“<BR /> <BR />The First Minister and I agree with Members that it is important to clearly set out what we are working to achieve through the programme and to be transparent when it comes to reporting our progress. The Programme for Government sets out priorities. We have said it before, and I will say again: it is not the totality of our ambition. Frankly, despite reflections from some Members across the Chamber that they find the Programme for Government underwhelming, the reality is that if, in two and a half years, we have made significant progress against all nine priorities, that will be a job well done. We are realistic about that, and I think that the public expect us to be.”
“<BR /> <BR />We will, as we have said in the Assembly, work with Executive colleagues to carefully consider and introduce specific, measurable and time-bound objectives where it makes sense to do so, but to approve the motion would mean that we agree changes to the process that I have outlined and the programme itself without letting that consultation run its course fully. It is also important that we, as an Executive, have that opportunity to reach a collective decision based on the rounded view that a consultation exercise provides.The process, while maybe not the most exciting part of this, is critical. Keen as we are to see timely progress, we are not willing to do either of those things.”
“We will also look to identify gaps in data by strengthening our suite of indicators. The aim is for those to be dynamic, so, if some of them are not working in the right way or doing what we want them to do with regard to that progressive realisation against our overall targeted outcome, we should be able to change them, if needs be. We will, of course, take feedback from the relevant Committees as well. The indicators on mental health, the number of people in housing stress and the percentage of people who see towns and city centres as safe and welcoming are currently not moving in the right direction. In order to continually improve, it is important that we have prioritised healthcare, the provision of more social, affordable and sustainable housing and safer communities.”
“We have to work with the conditions in which we find ourselves. Ultimately, we are dictated to by whether a multi-year Budget comes out of Treasury. We also made the point that longer-term funding supports us, particularly on the capital side, and, indeed, that more needs to be done on that coordination piece. I have no doubt that we will raise that point again at the Council of the Nations and Regions on Friday. <BR /> <BR />We will also look at how to link projects in the Programme for Government to that well-being dashboard. The indicators on that dashboard will be updated automatically when the latest data is published. Again, I advise all Members to look at that and bring forward any views that they have. That will aid work across the Executive and help us to identify and bring forward solutions when issues are found.”
“The sustainability plan was to set out the framework for managing, regardless of the situation that we are in, but it also made it clear that our preference is for a multi-year Budget. We made that point directly to the Prime Minister. We made it directly, strongly and robustly to the Chancellor when we met her. She indicated to us that she agreed that the multi-year Budget was the preference but, of course, also highlighted the difficulty for the new Government in coming in and being able to take a look at those longer-term measures. I expect that some of that challenge is because the fiscal environment is particularly challenging at the moment. The Government will want to align a multi-year Budget with some ambition for what they want to achieve over the remaining three to four years of their term beyond next year.”
“If we secure additional revenue, we will, of course, scale those up.”
“That well-being dashboard should be able to give us those indications, which will facilitate Ministers and the Executive in taking mitigating actions. <BR /> <BR />The challenge for us all will be the difficult Budget and fiscal environment in which we are trying to deliver. We are determined to deliver against all nine priorities. The scale of that delivery and the realisation of our ambition will, in part, depend on the Budget that is available. As I indicated to the Committee last week, it is unlikely that we will have a multi-year Budget before next year. The lack of a multi-year Budget prevents us from making the planned decisions that we would want to make. However, we anticipate that the fiscal environment will be difficult for the next 12 to 18 months at least. Therefore, the targets and priorities will all be scalable.”
“Any targets will need to be specific, measurable and time-bound. Most of all, they will need to be meaningful and result in change that people want and need to see. We have already made a good start on that. Earlier, during Question Time, there was reference to our well-being framework and dashboard. The 40 indicators will be a critical aspect of measuring this. Those 40 indicators will be key measurements against the nine priorities, and they will be updated, as I indicated earlier, in real time in order to measure progress. It will also give us an indication of problems in real time. Often, Ministers refer to targets going the wrong way or being red as opposed to green or amber and going in the right direction.”
“<BR /> <BR />Once the consultation period has concluded and once the Executive have properly considered the responses and the input of Committees, we will work collectively to agree a final Programme for Government that will then be brought to the Assembly for cross-community approval. I thank the Committee — the Committee Chair is not in her place — for the work that it will undertake and has undertaken thus far as a coordinating Committee for the other Committees on the Programme for Government. That is invaluable work, often gathering in the specific departmental and sectoral interests from across the range of Committees. <BR /> <BR />There is, of course, more work to be done before a final programme is agreed, and we will work with the Executive to consider carefully how best to include targets.”
“The consultation is open until 4 November, and we very much encourage Members to share the information with groups, organisations and constituents. I am really pleased to say that we have had a good response to the draft Programme for Government thus far. We are up to 366 responses online, which is a healthy number at the midpoint. We know that many people often wait until the later stages of a consultation before responding. The time frames involved mean that we also committed to looking at responses as they come in. I am pleased to say that the early indications are that there is significant support for the nine priorities in those online responses.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome Members referring to some of the big infrastructure challenges that we face, not least with the water and sewerage system, but we also have capital spend pressures for, for example, public transport, the education estate and social and affordable housing. In fact, all those challenges tie in with the water and sewerage system. The proposals and the plan for doing that work will be set out in the investment strategy for Northern Ireland as opposed to being the primary focus of the Programme for Government, although the two documents are, of course, inextricably linked in that ambition. <BR /> <BR />It is for the public, the Assembly and all our partners to tell us whether those are the priorities that matter most to people here, which is why we encourage everyone to get involved in the consultation.”
“They are growing a globally competitive economy; delivering more affordable childcare; cutting health waiting lists; ending violence against women and girls; providing better support for children and young people with special educational needs; providing more social, sustainable and affordable housing; having safer communities; protecting Lough Neagh and the environment; and reforming and transforming public services. We have also made proposals to invest in infrastructure, including water management, and have identified a set of long-term missions that the Executive will pursue.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Members who tabled the motion. On taking office, we pledged to work with all parties across the Executive and the Assembly to confront the challenges that we face and to capitalise on the many opportunities on offer to deliver a better future for Northern Ireland. That is exactly what we and our colleagues in the Executive have done with the draft Programme for Government, which is now out for consultation. <BR /> <BR />In the draft Programme for Government, we set out nine priorities.”
“That is the start. If we can get additional resources in the interim, we can and will scale up. All the funding schemes are scalable. In the meantime, however, that is the budget with which we are working.”
“The £3 million is not the totality of the ambition of what we want to achieve through the strategy and delivery plan, but it is a start. We took the decision that, rather than simply to wait for everything that we wanted, it was much better to start to get that important work under way and to support those organisations that do such important work in the sector through working with women and girls who find themselves in that situation.”
“There is £3 million available for those funds. Over the next two years, it will be about £5 million altogether. We made a bid for additional resources, even beyond those.”
“As the Member will be aware, we recently launched our framework and delivery plan. We are actively working on delivery of the challenge fund and the change fund. The challenge fund will be based on two key questions being put out to the sector and inviting organisations to come forward with proposals on how to meet the challenges. We aim for that to go live this month. The change fund will work with councils and community-based organisations. That will have to be delivered through different mechanisms, but we are striving to get it out as early as possible — no later than January 2025 and prior to that date, if at all possible.”
“Absolutely. We have fantastic businesses throughout Northern Ireland. In areas of Northern Ireland, there is a focus on particular industries, such as advanced manufacturing in mid-Ulster, We have specialisms in different places. That is a model that we can build on, working with Invest NI and across the Departments. Where there are job or investment opportunities, we must ask, "How can we ensure that these are spread in such a way that brings economic benefit to all parts?". The clear message from the Executive is that no part of Northern Ireland will be left behind. We will continue to be a champion for every part of Northern Ireland: north, south, east and west. That is at the heart of all of the work that we do.”
“I have no doubt that the First Minister will agree that we should raise the issue directly with the Prime Minister on Friday at the new Council of the Nations and Regions. We will continue to raise it at the highest possible level. We want all areas to benefit, and the city and growth deals are essential to that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I absolutely agree. At the very heart of city and growth deals is the sense of using whatever levers and investment are available to encourage economic growth, the "levelling up" agenda, as it was known. That is very much what we want to achieve across Northern Ireland. We believe that a better and brighter future for Northern Ireland lies with economic prosperity but that economic growth must benefit all parts. That is why we are deeply disappointed that the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deal and the Mid South West growth deal have been paused and are not progressing. When you look at the statistics for those areas, you see that there is significant need for the intervention of additional funds for economic growth. We will continue to raise that directly.”
“Absolutely. I commend the Member for all the work that she is doing to highlight the concerns in the industry. We know that there is serious concern, and I know that because the Member has had the conversation with me. The Agriculture Minister should lead and be part of the team that speaks to the Home Office about that important issue. I am certainly happy to engage with the Member to see whether we can encourage the Agriculture Minister to do so.”
“I thank the Member for her important question. I have listened to representations on the issue from her, MPs and MLAs and from the agri-food, farming and hospitality sectors. Those jobs are essential. The Northern Ireland farming sector is a net contributor and supplies 10 million people across the UK, which is well above our population. It is really important and really valuable. However, it can do that only if it can get access to the right workers. We have continuously raised the issue with the UK Government. The approach was never about closed borders entirely; it is about having a sensible approach to migration and immigration and addressing the needs of sectors. We will continue to raise those issues, because we know how important they are to the continued supply of those goods.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Again, I can answer only for myself. I absolutely agree: people deserve credibility. There has been a huge amount of trauma relating to child safeguarding issues over recent years and recent decades. As leaders in Northern Ireland, we all have a duty to make it clear that we are being fully transparent and open. Events over the course of the last week or so have damaged that credibility. We need to now move to that. <BR /> <BR />I put on record the fact that I distance myself from any comments that tried to put the blame for this on to other organisations, particularly the charity involved, the British Heart Foundation. I know the charity. It does a huge amount of good work. Responsibility for the issue must be taken. I hope that there will be very clear openness and honesty about it.”
“Lessons must be learnt from that. The lessons from the findings are around openness, candour, honesty and not moving the problem on to someone else. It is about taking responsibility. Those are all core. A huge part of that work and the reason for it is learning those lessons. <BR /> <BR />There are serious questions about the current situation that have to be answered. As leaders, we have to be honest and credible. Very many people out there will feel that the answers simply have not been credible thus far. Therefore, I urge the people involved to be open, honest and credible on the matter.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. Ultimately, these are serious questions for Sinn Féin to answer. It is clear that there are a number of questions to be answered. I can speak on this only in my personal capacity, but I encourage the party to answer those questions in a very open and transparent way. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right. The Executive Office had a role in overseeing the independent inquiry into historical institutional abuse. We are overseeing work on the mother-and-baby homes and important investigatory research projects on clerical abuse. Indeed, representatives from the main political parties here made an apology to the victims and survivors of such abuse for those failings and faults. Those failings and wrongs were all to do with safeguarding children. That is what our primary focus must be.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Absolutely, we all have a duty here to do what we can to create stability. As I indicated, at the heart of that must be an open, honest and credible approach. Anything that discredits or damages that must be avoided at all costs; indeed, all actions possible must be taken to address that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is absolutely important that we show that leadership, and that leadership must be based on the principles of integrity, honesty and openness. Indeed, I encourage all those to act in that manner.”
“There never was in the past, and there certainly is not in the future. We must all work together to stamp out the scourge of paramilitarism.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Again, I will be very clear about this: threats are wrong, and any violence or disorder on the basis of that is wrong. People should be allowed to go about their business, should that be work, education or sport, and the Education Minister has made that clear. I refer the Member to the previous answer and ask him to look back over the last 25 years, because the heart of our process is around engaging — engaging with the organisations that, I highlight at this stage, are ceasefire organisations. Where there is criminality or continued paramilitarism or terrorist activity, we have been very clear that the PSNI must do everything that it can to have a criminal justice response to such activities, because there is no role for those in the Northern Ireland of today.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Let us be clear: paramilitarism is wrong. It always was. There was always an alternative. However, our peace process has always been built on engagement. Across many aspects of government, agencies, including the PSNI, engage with those in the community. We must always reach out and continue to engage with those who wish to progress. The continued transition of those once involved with organisations that are now on ceasefire has to be core to our processes and moving communities on. I assure the Member that all engagement must take place firmly within the context of our public and firm view against all terrorism or paramilitary activity.”
“We have been clear that we must build on the common ground that we all share to realise the potential of the site for the benefit of all, and we are committed to working with the development corporation to achieve that. The future use of the listed and retained buildings is part of the wider discussion that will undoubtedly take place. We recognise that there is a lot of history with the site, and that will require us to move with consensus and sensitivity. Unlocking the potential of the site must be done in a way that is entirely sensitive to the needs of victims and to the history and heritage of this place. I can assure the Member that engagement with those affected will be an essential part of any process of developing proposals, if it gets to that stage.”
“Infrastructure is such a critical part of ensuring that prosperity, and we will make sure that no part of Northern Ireland is left out, should it be the north-west, the south-west, Causeway coast and glens, right through to the Mournes and Newry and Armagh. I have probably forgotten somewhere by the way, so, if I have, I apologise, but we want to ensure that all parts of Northern Ireland prosper.”