Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“<BR /> <BR />We know that there are far too many people with avoidable illnesses on health waiting lists. If we catch those avoidable illnesses early, we can change some of the issues and have a transformative effect. Mike refers to the "Shift left" agenda for tackling public health issues: that is critical. It will not take only the next number of years: it is an agenda for the next five, 10, 20 or 30 years in this place. We may not see the results in health waiting lists until we are 10 or 20 years down the line, but, my goodness, we know that it is truly transformative. We know that making those interventions and supporting those children pre-birth and through birth and early childhood is critical to their life outcomes.”
“He talked about the anti-poverty strategy and other strategies, including language strategies, and about the ongoing housing crisis and access to affordable housing. That goes to the heart of what we are trying to achieve with the Programme for Government, because the impact of not having a warm and secure home is huge. It is huge for the whole family, and it is significantly detrimental to children and young people who grow up in that environment. It is one of the keys that unlock children's ability to thrive. We want those children to fulfil their potential, contribute to society and live happy and thriving lives. That also touches the core of health inequalities. It is a perfect example of how other departmental policies are critical to what we are trying to do.”
“We should not dismiss it, because, at the heart of farming, are farming families who are out from early in the morning to late at night in all weathers and in a tough financial environment, doing what they can to provide locally sourced, locally grown, locally produced, high-quality food. The security of food supply is such a critical issue in a globally unstable context. It is right and proper that we look at all those issues, including, as the Member mentioned, the impacts of planning and delays on our farming and agri communities and how the just transition can make sure that, as we move towards some of our environmental aspirations, we do so in a way that does not disproportionately burden our farmers. <BR /> <BR />Colm Gildernew spoke from the communities perspective.”
“It is not only that: through the investment strategy for Northern Ireland, which we hope to bring to this place in the next number of weeks, we will seek additional capital for that budget to help with the £26 billion of capital investment for infrastructure that we predict over the next 10 years. I look forward to discussing that issue in the House in due course. <BR /> <BR />Robbie Butler spoke from his perspective as Chair of the Agriculture Committee. I pay tribute again to all the incredible work that our farming community does. It is a challenging time for our farming community. Many people either do not want to hear that or just want to dismiss it.”
“That will be critical. <BR /> <BR />Deborah Erskine spoke as Chairperson of the Infrastructure Committee, and I thank her for her contribution. We hear all the time about potholes on roads, schools that need interventions and making sure that the capital projects that we invest in come in on time and on budget. I have said before in this place that, if we can bring in capital projects on time and on budget, that will free up much more capital resource with which we can do more. We know that the demand for capital investment always outstrips the capital that we have available.”
“I do not believe that it is acceptable to any one of us in the House. We understand that, for those individuals, as Diane Dodds referenced, it is personal. If a person is living in pain week in, week out and month in, month out and being told that their operation or intervention will not happen for many months or years, that causes a despair that we can do something about. That is why we will use the new delivery unit to support the Health Minister to find new ways of working. We will do our best, working with the Finance Minister, to secure additional resource that is ring-fenced for those interventions in the Department. We recognise that, yes, health is the key priority in the document. We need to drive down those lists. Further to that, we need transformation to prevent what has happened with those lists from happening again.”
“Our responsibility to the people must be to do government better and make sure that, as custodians of the public purse, we invest the money that we get for public services in a way that gets the best outcomes possible. Our government and our processes must be fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />Philip McGuigan spoke from a health perspective and referenced health inequalities. We know that a key part of the agenda has to be the prioritisation of tackling health waiting lists and transformation in our health sector. That is the number-one issue that is brought up with me when I go about in my constituency of Lagan Valley. I hear all the time about access to GPs, people sitting on waiting lists and the pain and issues that people face day in, day out. Let us be clear: it is not acceptable. It is not acceptable to me or to the First Minister.”
“I thank the Member for his comment. We have a fantastic aerospace and defence industry in Northern Ireland, so much of which concerns supporting people to secure peace. We all want to see peace. We want to see a peaceful outcome negotiated, but we should support our industry and be proud of its world-class products and the contributions that they make in very important areas. <BR /> <BR />The Chairperson of the TEO Committee went on to speak in her party capacity. She welcomed the publication and said clearly that government needed to be fit for purpose: that is absolutely true. We hear, time after time, so many people calling on the Government to increase bills for ordinary working families across this place.”
“The Programme for Government is not going to find significant savings in that time, but we must work together to turn the curve on what we want to achieve, should it be by addressing the mental health of the people of Northern Ireland, ensuring the affordability of childcare, driving down health waiting lists, growing our economy, providing good jobs or creating opportunities for all our young people, no matter in what part of Northern Ireland they live.”
“We have made a commitment to do what we can to drive efficiency and transformation in Departments. <BR /> <BR />We have committed in the document to creating a delivery unit, which will be very much about determining how we can do things differently. How do we do them better? How do we free up the money that we need in order to invest in the prioritised areas? The document mentions the agreement to create an office of AI and digital to use innovation and technology to drive efficiency and to find a better way of doing things. None of those things will be done tomorrow or next week, and we know that.”
“It is not going to be delivery of the full Sinn Féin manifesto or the full DUP manifesto. Rather, the document contains the areas that the four parties can agree to prioritise and focus on, and that means compromise. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the contribution from the Chairperson of the Committee for the Executive Office. First, I extend my thanks to the Committee for all its work. It is very tricky to coordinate all the different responses across many different policy areas, some of which fall outside the Committee's remit. The Chairperson raised a number of important points, particularly about the well-being indicators and how we measure the document's success. There is a range of targets and objectives in it. Some will simply require additional funds, and that is a challenge for me, the First Minister and the entire Executive to meet.”
“The SDLP is very keen to criticise the First Minister and me for taking photographs, and I am not saying that our Programme for Government would not have been improved by having a full-page picture of Matthew O'Toole, but the SDLP's plan is a short document indeed. Perhaps most surprising of all is the fact that it took the SDLP some eight months to come up with its plan, despite the fact that it was negotiating only with itself. <BR /> <BR />Today is a momentous day, and not just because of the substance in the Programme for Government. Yes, the document has ambition and quality, but it is a momentous day because the four Executive parties have agreed on prioritisation. We talk an awful lot about delivery, and delivery is key, but, let us be realistic, it will not be delivery of the full Alliance Party manifesto and its aspirations.”
“There were plenty of reflections from him. I am not sure that I would describe his contribution as either a constructive or a critical one from the Opposition, but he did talk an awful lot about what the Executive ought to do. In order for us to benchmark ourselves against what can be only, I imagine, a document of excellence, I looked up the SDLP's plan. At first, I could not look it up, because the link was broken. The party may need to check its website. I did, however, eventually manage to get my hands on it. There are 14 pages in the plan, two of which are entirely blank. It could be argued that those pages are the best in the plan, but I would not be uncharitable enough to say that, because, in among the 14 pages, there is an entire page containing a picture of Matthew O'Toole.”
“<BR /> <BR />The other day, I was at a conference at which somebody referenced the concept of being small enough to do big things. Northern Ireland is small enough to do big things, but that means transformation, and transformation requires investment. Transformation requires difficult decisions to be taken, but I can say to the people of Northern Ireland and to those in the Chamber, hand on heart, that the Executive are working hard to genuinely improve the everyday lives of the people of this place. <BR /> <BR />It is very challenging to respond to so many contributions, but I will endeavour to do so as quickly as I possibly can. I will start with the positive, upbeat and hopeful contribution from the leader of the Opposition, Matthew O'Toole.”
“It is a message of ambition, and it is a message of seeking to do everything in our power to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland, throughout Northern Ireland, on the things that matter most to them. <BR /> <BR />The Programme for Government provides a road map to grow our economy, strengthen our communities and support hard-working families. My aspiration is to have as many happy, thriving people and families as possible in every part of Northern Ireland — this wonderful place that we call "home". I want to create a Northern Ireland that is one of the best small, open and agile economies in the world, if not the best. I genuinely believe that we can do that. We have the opportunity, regardless of how challenging the circumstances may be.”
“<BR /> <BR />Nonetheless, I have a message today, in spite of some of what I have heard, and that is a message of hope.”
“However, I will try. <BR /> <BR />We have heard a significant number of contributions from right across the Chamber. The First Minister and I welcome that. We welcome the interest in the Programme for Government and the range of issues raised, because, of course, this is a Programme for Government, so it covers many different elements of what we do. However, we made it clear from the outset and in the introductory remarks by the First Minister that this document is not the totality of our ambitions; not even the totality of the ambitions of the Executive and, certainly, not for the individual Ministers. It is, of course, about prioritisation, and prioritisation is always difficult. We are in a fiscally constrained environment. It is difficult to fund everything that we want to fund, and that requires hard decisions.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. My goodness, how does one follow that?”
“The key message today is that we are here to support those who are doing good — those who want to move on. We will not leave anybody behind; we will work with people to move them on. However, when it comes to those who are engaged in criminal or paramilitary activity, it needs to stop, it needs to be stamped out and it needs a criminal justice response.”
“Individuals, families and communities are doing so much volunteering, and they are really changing their communities from within.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As we have said clearly in this place before, we must all stand united against the scourge of paramilitarism. There was never any justification for terrorism or paramilitarism. There is no role for it today, in 2025, just as there was no role for it here at any time over the past number of decades. <BR /> <BR />The billboard campaign was designed to push the agenda of removing any last traces of paramilitarism in communities. It is, however, important that we do not stigmatise communities. Some incredibly good work is happening in them. I have always said that some problems in areas are caused by a minority of people. There are great organisations in those communities doing fantastic work.”
“It is about calling out and challenging the issues that give rise to violence against women and girls.”
“I am pleased that the issue has been prioritised in the Programme for Government. We want to make it clear that it is a priority for us. Every single act of violence towards a woman or a girl, and every death of a woman or a girl as a result of that violence, is wrong and needs to stop. We want to do everything that we can not just to reduce it but eliminate it. That will involve a combination of factors, including political leadership, which we have shown throughout the House thus far. The actions taken on prevention are key. Ending violence against women and girls will not be done tomorrow, next week or next month, but we need to invest now in order to see the results further down the line. That will involve working with primary schools, post-primary schools, community groups and, importantly, families.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As the First Minister and I have indicated since we took up our respective posts just over a year ago, it is an area of key importance for us. We want to deliver not just the strategy but the framework, because that is where the action is. I am really pleased that the change funds are available region-wide and through local councils. I think that the funds are now open in most council areas. There is a call for applications from local groups that work in those areas, particularly in the area of prevention. Their work is incredibly important. We also know that groups on the ground do such valuable work. They see the challenges and know the issues, and they are in the best position to come forward with projects and initiatives, the first of which we expect will be able to be rolled from about 1 April.”
“Absolutely. The Member will be aware that we have supported the call for evidence so that people can come forward and tell their personal story. It is an opportunity for people to tell of their lived experience. I have no doubt that it will be very difficult for some people to go through the process, but it is such an important part of what we are trying to do, which is to get to the truth of what happened. I therefore encourage as many people as possible to come forward and share their story and lived experience.”
“We will hopefully go out to consultation on the legislation very shortly. We are currently considering some of the policy issues. We have just finished drawing up the consultation. There are some big policy areas to be agreed on, but the legislation will represent a positive step forward.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. He will be aware that work is ongoing in that area. I pay huge tribute to all those who have worked so hard to get it to this point. I know that, for some, it is a point of frustration, but, of course, there are many different elements that were recommended in the original proposals and that we are going forward with.”
“I promise the House that we will look at all those processes to make sure that the prospect of no appointment being made for a period of time is eliminated or reduced significantly.”
“It is incredibly important not only that our public appointments are independent and based on merit but that there is a strong perception that they are; indeed, we have to have those discussions about whether the process for public appointments is fit for purpose. It takes a hugely long time for public appointments to be put in place to the point of readiness to go out for advertisement, and sometimes that does not match up with the expectations or desire of Ministers or others. It is fine if you have a lead-in time and the advertisement goes out maybe 18 months to 12 months before the end of a term, but, if that does not happen, you can end up in the situation that we are in with no commissioner in place.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We are considering the proposals at the moment, and we hope to go out with the advertisement for the role very shortly.”
“Absolutely. As indicated, the UK Government need to scrap the tax. It is a farm tax on farming families. Instead of taxing our farmers even further, the Government need to stand up for them and make sure that they can continue to do the hard and great job that they do to support every one of us across Northern Ireland.”
“The UK Government need to change tack on the issue and stand up for and protect our farmers. We will not be silent in continuing to stand up for them.”
“I welcome the Member to her place and thank her for the topical question. <BR /> <BR />Absolutely: there are serious concerns in the farming community. All of us around this place have listened to the concerns articulated by our hard-working farmers and farming families. We have a strong and honourable tradition of family farming throughout and across this place. We want to protect that and recognise the hard work that they do. You cannot farm if you do not have a farm. Farms are part and parcel of what our farmers need in order to produce the agri-food, the goods and the necessary products that we so want them to continue to provide. <BR /> <BR />A farm is not a luxury to be taxed to such an extent that it could, unfortunately, leave the family. We have raised this key issue with the Chancellor and directly with the Prime Minister.”
“Indeed, the best thing that we, as political leaders, can do is stand shoulder to shoulder in order to encourage all from across all communities to apply and to make it clear to all from across all communities that, if you do so, you will not be discriminated against, you will be considered in a fair and open way, and you will be appointed on merit.”
“I absolutely agree with the Member. The people in the PSNI do an incredible and, at times, difficult job. We should take the opportunity to say, "Thank you" to them and pay tribute to all that they do. Likewise, we should pay tribute to the legacy of those who served also in the RUC in defence of so many across this place in the most difficult and darkest of days. We have always said clearly that we will never allow the memory of what they did and the service that they gave to the people of Northern Ireland to be besmirched and twisted into something that it was not.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. It is absolutely key that we move forward in this place with that sense of fairness and equity. That must be based on the best person for the job, not on discriminatory practices. That is fundamental if this place is going to move forward. I want to encourage as many people as possible from across all backgrounds in Northern Ireland to step up and join the PSNI and to play a role in the PSNI. It is a positive thing for people to come forward from all sides of the community. We want to see that. However, discrimination is always wrong. The appointments should always be on the basis of merit and merit alone.”
“I will be absolutely clear: we will engage with the US Administration and the president of the United States of America for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland. That includes in relation to trade, because that trading relationship is hugely important. I gently remind the Member that one has to engage with many political leaders with whom one does not agree. Last year, when I went to DC, I engaged with President Biden even though I fundamentally disagree with him politically on a wide range of issues. That is the case in many other areas as well. What I am prepared to do is step away from my own small politics and, rather, to step up for the people of Northern Ireland and engage for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland with the office of the president of the United States and with the Administration in the United States.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Unfortunately, unlike the SDLP, we are not in the spirit of turning down invitations that we have not yet received and may never receive. We will wait to see what comes through about that week. I notice that the Irish Government have just released information about their attendance in DC on St Patrick's week and their activities to promote their issues. I am strongly of the view that we should take every opportunity to stand up for and promote this place, and that includes, if the opportunity is given to us, engaging at the highest possible levels in the US to make our case and to promote Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The draft ISNI is under active consideration. Part of the challenge around the investment strategy will be the capital budget that we have available. We are currently in a one-year Budget, and that is frustrating. However, that should not hold back progress on that. It is important to say that that document will be scalable. We will endeavour to do everything that we can to maximise the capital funding going into our budget to enable us to do more and to do so strategically.”
“I want all parts of Northern Ireland to thrive and succeed. As I have always said, it is simple: if we can bring those infrastructure projects in on time and on budget, we can do more with the capital allocation that we have; if those projects take longer and cost more, we can do less with it. It is that simple. That is why there is a huge incentive across government for us to do better when it comes to big infrastructure roll-out and deliver for the people of Northern Ireland on those important projects.”
“That includes everything from the length of the business case process and how long it takes to go out to procurement to what goes wrong in the roll-out of capital projects. <BR /> <BR />The concept of an infrastructure commission is interesting. Importantly, in all this, no matter what we decide is the way forward, it must improve the way that we do capital infrastructure roll-out. That is the absolute test that we will apply to any steps forward.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Absolutely: doing nothing is not an option. We want to improve the processes that we have to make sure that more of our capital projects come in on time and on budget. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the public sector does not do large infrastructure projects well. There are all kinds of reasons for that, not least because the business case stage is very much about the projection of costs. We do not know those costs until we go out to the private sector and get bids in on that. There is always a lot of movement around this. We have tasked SIB, particularly in the context of the development of the investment strategy for Northern Ireland (ISNI), to look at the issues that cause delay.”
“Decisions on the way forward will be a matter for the Executive in due course.”
“The interdepartmental working group was established in 2021 to bring forward advice on the options for an infrastructure commission. A draft paper was produced in early 2022 that set out an initial assessment of options for consideration and as a precursor to more detailed analysis and development of a business case. <BR /> <BR />Officials are reviewing the draft paper to take account of developments, including the Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO) follow-up report on major capital programmes and the subsequent Public Accounts Committee (PAC) hearing and the Strategic Investment Board (SIB) report on root causes of delay and progress on the investment strategy. <BR /> <BR />We are considering the report of the recent SIB review. The recommendations of that review will also inform the revision of the draft paper.”
“It is important that Committees take the time that they need to do their scrutiny job in the way that it needs to be done.”
“It is important to remember that, when we ask Ministers for Bills that will be included in the legislative programme, we do not see the substance of that legislation. As it comes up for consideration to the Executive, there may well be large parts of it that not everyone agrees with. We are always conscious of that risk. However, it is also important that that legislation gets to Committees, because they play such an important role in scrutinising it. They can call witnesses and stakeholders and examine provisions, and they have an important role to play in potentially proposing amendments. Ministers can do that by supporting the process whereby legislation gets to the Committee, but the Committees have those statutory powers.”
“I thank the Member for his question. We are in a four-party coalition. There will be many different aspirations in all four parties, but we are determined to make a tangible difference to people's lives on the issues that matter to them. We listened to what people said in the draft Programme for Government process, and we heard that they need to see reductions in health waiting lists; an affordable childcare strategy being rolled out that makes a positive impact on families' lives; and ambitious infrastructure investment in our water and schools and on our roads. We are determined, working with colleagues across the Executive, to drive those forward and to demonstrate the tangible difference and value that the Executive make by the end of this term.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased that we have made significant progress throughout all the Departments: bringing forward initial actions on affordable childcare; the ongoing work towards an affordable childcare strategy; tackling infrastructure issues, with the announcements on the A5 and the Enniskillen bypass; the Communities Minister's opening of the football funding scheme; and work on other important issues such as the housing supply strategy. That is in the context of discussing all the issues around our budgets, putting the draft Programme for Government out for consultation and other key moves forward. We are in the process of an ambitious drive in Departments towards transformation and delivery, and, within the next 12 months, we hope to stand in the Chamber and demonstrate that delivery in a meaningful way.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It has been a busy first 12 months, and, of course, we make it clear that that is not the totality of our ambition. We are finalising the Programme for Government, and we hope to come forward with that very shortly. It will set the high-level prioritisation. Of course, the challenge for any new Administration is not the number of priorities and trying to get everything in but to cut that back to a small number to focus on in order to make a real difference.”
“There are many different ways of bringing about change, including reform; transformation of the way in which we do things; bringing forward policy and policy statements; and tackling the big issues in Departments. It is not always about new legislation. <BR /> <BR />That said, we are taking measures to work with Departments to ensure that the ambition set out by Ministers to introduce legislation can be realised and that that legislation can hit the House for proper scrutiny in a timely way.”