Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“In addition, a Utility Regulator decarbonisation powers Bill will aim to provide a new advisory function for the Utility Regulator to enable it to support the Department for the Economy in the delivery of the Executive's energy, strategy and targets under the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022. The Minister will also bring forward an onshore petroleum licensing Bill to enact new policy, a Bill to establish a legal framework for a renewable electricity support scheme and an employment Bill to help to increase the proportion of working-age people in good jobs.”
“The pensions parity Bill will ensure that pension savers and providers here will benefit from measures included in Westminster legislation. The public authorities fraud, error and debt Bill will aim to correspond to equivalent Westminster legislation to combat fraudulent activity in the welfare system. In order to implement recommendations from the independent review of charity regulation, the Minister also proposes to introduce a charities amendment Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Minister for the Economy recently introduced a Bill to make provision in relation to the renewable heat incentive (RHI) scheme, which is listed in our programme.”
“It will also require all partners in the legislative process — Departments, Ministers and Members — to work together not only to provide effective and workable legislation but to ensure that it is progressed efficiently to meet the needs of those whom it is intended to help. <BR /> <BR />I will now briefly set out the purpose of each Bill as outlined in our statement. The Minister for Communities intends to bring forward five Bills. The Northern Ireland debt respite scheme Bill will aim to establish and implement a scheme to ensure that legal protections are in place for debtors requiring breathing space from credit enforcement. The housing miscellaneous Bill will aim to implement proposals relating to antisocial behaviour.”
“We will, of course, work with Ministers to encourage them to bring those forward in a timely way, to identify whether there are any challenges to bringing those forward, to find out what the barriers are, and to see whether we can meet what has been set out. <BR /> <BR />As we move towards the end of the mandate, achieving all that we wish to do in legislation will, undoubtedly, be challenging not just for Ministers but for the Assembly and its Committees. That may, in due course, require a further prioritisation of Ministers' proposals to ensure that the legislation that is most needed, with the greatest positive impact on our community, or the most urgent generally, is successfully enacted before the end of the mandate.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that the House fully understands the process involved. At this stage, it represents the four parties in the Executive and the individual Ministers putting forward their policy proposals for legislation. As yet, the Executive have not seen the policy content of most of those proposals, so our role as First Minister and deputy First Minister is simply to receive those proposals and put them together into a legislative programme. In addition, it is not the responsibility of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to bring those forward; that is the responsibility of the individual Ministers.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. We are pleased to present to the Assembly the Executive Committee's legislation programme for the 2025-26 session. On 3 October, the First Minister and I made a written ministerial statement to advise the Assembly of the legislation that Ministers of the Executive Committee intend to introduce in the 2025-26 session of the Assembly, subject to Executive agreement on the underlying policy and content of each Bill. Ministers believe that the proposals are important and can be introduced as Bills this session. However, while each Minister is fully committed to their delivery, it is important to note that the policy proposals for each Bill will be carefully considered by the Executive ahead of drafting and before introduction to the Assembly, in line with the agreed legislative process.”
“It is important to take all matters into consideration. As I have said, I am a great believer in a range of options being available; indeed, if the legislation is not there to provide for those options, we should consider introducing it. At the moment, we have the Inquiries Act 2005, and public inquiries can be activated under that Act. As we have seen with the historical institutional abuse inquiry and the inquiry into mother-and-baby homes, however, it was felt that the Inquiries Act was not fit for purpose for either, and we therefore we had to enact a tailored legislative option to take more fully into account what we wanted to do. There is a range of options: it does not have to be one massive public inquiry or nothing. That needs to be looked at actively across the system.”
“Often, as in this case, there are questions to be answered. It is important that, when we approach all the issues, we find the best way in which to get answers. From a personal and party perspective, I do not support holding an unlimited number of public inquiries. They are not necessarily the best way to get outcomes. They tend to be costly and bureaucratic and to take an awfully long time. We should always look pragmatically at what is the best intervention for getting to the truth of the matter, to get to the answers and to reach the desired outcomes. At the moment, the matter is being considered by a range of people. Hopefully, there will be some conclusions provided shortly.”
“As I said, that approach is mainstreamed into Departments' policy development. One of our initiatives is to push forward better data analytics, particularly through the work that our Chief Scientific and Technology Adviser (CSTA) is driving. One thing that we have identified that could help policymaking is for us to have a better understanding of the data behind everything and, importantly, to ensure that it is linked to what we do. There is no point in having all those fantastic datasets if we are not putting the data into practice. We are therefore pushing forward with a range of strategies, including a data strategy. That presents a really good opportunity to ensure that the analytics are taken fully into account in policy development and, importantly, in service delivery.”
“We know that there will be needs in Health and Social Care (HSC) owing to the types of illnesses that people are facing, not least Alzheimer's disease and dementia. Local councils are taking an age-friendly approach. I had the opportunity in Lagan Valley to attend Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council's age-friendly event with so many organisations that work with our older people across the constituency. Lagan Valley is a good example of a constituency that has an ageing population with needs. <BR /> <BR />That approach has to be mainstreamed into everything that we do. We need to ensure that we take that fully into account in all our equality impact assessment (EQIA) screening — as you know, we have recently appointed our new Commissioner for Older People — and in the reporting on and monitoring of our Programme for Government.”
“I thank the Member for her important question. As she is aware, we take a life-cycle approach to all public services and, indeed, to most of our key priorities. There will be some that are less relevant than others, but I would argue that even the like of affordable childcare has a big impact on our older population, because many of those people are stepping in to provide unpaid childcare in much greater numbers than ever before. It is an incredible thing that they do. It is also a demonstration of the active lives that people can now have into much later life. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right: it is important that we continue not only to monitor the situation but to project forward our needs.”
“When I post about such things, I am always shocked at responses from people in Northern Ireland, albeit they have the confidence to respond, that clearly demonstrate that they do not understand what that was all about or about the history and heritage of this place. A lot of bigotry and intolerance can be caused by a simplistic, one-dimensional approach to our past and to who people are. <BR /> <BR />There is huge potential in Craigavon House. I want the UK Government to step up and support it. Departments can play a role as well. I have spoken to my colleague in the Communities Department to see what opportunities may exist to push it forward, with support from the UK Government and the NIO.”
“I reached out to the Somme Association about the recent vandalising of the house. The house still has a number of its original features, and those need to be protected. The house is not in a great state of repair and requires support to bring it back. It is a house with incredible history and heritage. It would be a good centre for tourism, as people want to visit a place in which so many historic events happened, as well as for education, enabling people to better understand its history. <BR /> <BR />Just last week, we celebrated Ulster Day — 113 years since the signing of the Ulster covenant.”
“To be brutally honest, once such agreements are made in which people make promises, the challenge is to make sure that they follow through with those promises. For example, a key issue in the Member's constituency that was included in NDNA and other agreements is Craigavon House. I want to see Craigavon House developed. The UK Government gave commitments that they would support that, and that has not happened. <BR /> <BR />There is a range of outstanding commitments. I raise them continuously with the UK Government directly; indeed, MPs raise them at Westminster. It is important that the UK Government step up and honour those commitments, because to do so is to approach such significant agreements, which often precipitate action, in good faith. To not fulfil what is promised in such agreements is to act in bad faith.”
“So many issues come into play in that. We often talk about being responsible in what we say and how we say it. That is said an awful lot, yet we see so many examples, particularly in relation to the Jewish community across the UK, not just of carelessness but of deliberate attempts to intimidate and create hostility towards people. Of course, that community should be valued and protected in the UK. <BR /> <BR />The emergence of social media has been toxic. We see antisemitic and other abuse on social media: not just a handful or hundreds of messages but thousands and thousands of messages daily, spewing hate, intolerance and bigotry. <BR /> <BR />Everybody has a responsibility, and I would like to think that we could stand in solidarity across the House to condemn clearly antisemitism, wherever it occurs.”
“<BR /> <BR />In advance of the anniversary of 7 October, which is tomorrow, I send my solidarity to those who are still without their loved ones who are hostages in that region and to call again for the release of all of those hostages without reservation or condition.”
“I reached out to the community to send my solidarity in what they are going through. We were advised that the Home Office has a number of schemes, including the Jewish Community Protective Security Grant, which is managed on behalf of the Home Office by the Community Security Trust to protect synagogues, Jewish educational establishments and community organisations. It is a tragedy that such schemes are needed to protect people in that community as they try to go about the core protected right to worship in whichever faith they choose to worship. I will follow up with the Jewish community here to make sure that it maximises its use of the support that is available to it.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is timely and reminds us of the serious issues that we face, which do not include only those that I outlined regarding what we need to do about public services. There are serious issues that should be approached in a serious way, and this is one such issue. Like so many, I was appalled to see the scenes that played out in that terrorist attack. The First Minister and I took the opportunity that we were offered of a briefing on it from the UK Government. One of the questions that we asked was what further support could be given to protect our small Jewish community in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />It should be horrifying to everyone that our small Jewish community would feel such fear and threat, but, undoubtedly, they do.”
“you are from a party that engaged with people —”
“only your question and never the answer. The reality —”
“Thank you. That is perfectly legitimate answer to you, if your party criticises others for, allegedly, not focusing on the big issues, yet, week in, week out, you come to the House and try to find political wedge issues to get a headline or a tweet with a social media post that shows”
“In reality, as I said, we are focused on the issues that really matter to people. I find it frustrating that, when I stand here telling you about the huge amount of work that has to be done to reduce health waiting lists, support people to get the operations that they need, transform the health service, fix the challenges in special educational needs and grow our economy, you constantly want to bring it back to matters of political disagreement on certain issues. <BR /> <BR />I cannot be clearer about this: all paramilitarism is wrong. It always was, it still is, and it will be in the future. There was never any justification for it. There was always an alternative. I could not be clearer about that.”
“It goes without saying — I have said it in the House many times — that any threat, violence, intimidation or breaking of the law is wrong. That is my stance, no matter where it may happen. In this case, an allegation has been made. I have spoken to the Chief Constable. There is no evidence of such activity, but, as I said, we will continue to keep an eye on that situation.”
“In our Programme for Government, we focused on nine key priorities. For me, that is about driving forward the big issues that really impact on people's lives: tackling health waiting lists, improving our education system, mending holes in school roofs and trying to ensure that there is economic growth right across Northern Ireland. It is about championing what we are doing here. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that many people love the Irish language. They want to celebrate and speak the language that they love. I took the opportunity this morning to speak to the Chief Constable about the story in the Sunday papers. Indeed, he confirmed to me that, at this stage, the police are not aware of any allegations or any evidence of that. We will have to see how that develops.”
“While some do not want to acknowledge that work, I am very proud of the start that we have made. However, we are not complacent. We know that there is much more to be done, and that is why we are driving forward delivery in the Executive.”
“We delivered not only the strategy to end violence against women and girls but a delivery framework, with actual money going out the door to work with organisations and change people's lives on the ground. We have committed substantial investment to protecting and restoring Lough Neagh. Over last year and this year, more than £20 million has gone into work to tackle the big issues that face Lough Neagh. We have agreed our transformation board, and we have established a delivery unit and an AI and digital unit. We are driving forward transformation, with the first £129 million of the transformation fund already out to reform and transform the public sector. <BR /> <BR />Those are just some examples of the work that is happening across Departments.”
“The Executive have made a strong start and continue to work together to progress the key priorities outlined in the Programme for Government. For example, we secured an additional £1·3 billion in funding to support vital public services. Working parents have already saved around £8 million since the launch of the Northern Ireland childcare subsidy scheme in September 2024. The scheme's coverage has increased from 15,000 to approximately 24,000 children, thanks to a £55 million investment in early years and childcare this year. Nearly 59,000 additional outpatient, diagnostic and inpatient procedures have been delivered through the ring-fenced funding of over £200 million for health waiting lists. That puts us well on track to meet the Programme for Government target of 70,000.”
“<BR /> <BR />I attended the Queen's University Belfast AI conference, and one observation that was made at that conference was that the more that we go into the digital space and have companies around that technological and digital advancement, the more that people are able to work from all parts of the world. It does not have to be in those big hubs of, for example, London and Paris. It can be from every town and village throughout. We absolutely want to encourage that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Of course, if we are to grow the Northern Ireland economy, it is important that all parts of our economy can grow and are given the support and tools to do so. Along with the First Minister, I attended the opening of the digihub in Omagh. It was fantastic to see so many people already taking up those spots. I think that there were almost 20 companies within that digihub, where they are able to have a workplace and to have access to the tools that they require in order to run their businesses from somewhere close to where they live. That is really important.”
“Of course, that first link from Bank of America into Northern Ireland, through the previous ambassador, Jane Hartley, with the collaboration of Belfast Met really helped people who are most in need. It is really good to see that they have taken the next step. <BR /> <BR />Politics should play a role in encouraging that kind of investment and jobs for everyone, because that is the way that we will be able to make this place thrive and succeed.”
“Absolutely. The people who will take up these jobs will be from all parts of Northern Ireland and from all political views in Northern Ireland, and they all have a right to access good jobs. I really welcome the announcement. It is a confident show of the potential in our economy in Northern Ireland, and that is in the context of it being quite globally challenging for a whole range of reasons. Indeed, it was not the first time that I had met Bank of America. We participated in an investment breakfast at the UK global investment conference in London last year, where we had the opportunity to make a pitch about Northern Ireland. We talked about our younger workforce, our highly-qualified workforce and the fact that we had pushed ahead to develop expertise, particularly in back office and professional services.”
“It is absolutely important that all Ministers step up, regardless of personal views or political opinions. These are good jobs for people from a great company that has invested in places all over the globe, including in other parts of the UK and Ireland. They are very welcome here. I will continue to do everything that I can to champion our local businesses and to push forward in all sectors where there is the opportunity for growth.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. There is no doubt that, if we want Northern Ireland to thrive, we must grow our economy. Growing our economy has two distinct aspects. One is about supporting our local and indigenous businesses, and we must do that. I know that it has been a very challenging business environment for people to trade in. However, importantly, we must attract foreign direct investment. We have been very successful in doing so, particularly from the time of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement and the St Andrews Agreement. We should build on that. It has had its challenges, and that is why it is particularly important that we absolutely welcome that huge announcement by Bank of America. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the junior Minister and I met Bank of America last week, and we emphasised our absolute support.”
“The latest announcement adds to a growing list of global firms, such as Evri, Sysco, Sensata, Seagate and EY, which are choosing to invest locally, reinforcing our position as a competitive and attractive location for international business.”
“I was delighted to recently meet representatives of the Bank of America, along with junior Minister Bunting, to hear first-hand about its exciting plans to establish an office in Belfast. Those plans will create up to 1,000 new jobs, which is hugely significant, sends a powerful signal about the strength of our professional services sector and represents a real vote of confidence in our local workforce. The investment reflects Bank of America’s continued commitment to the local economy, building on its previous partnership with Belfast Met to support the digital skills and employability programme — an initiative that has empowered individuals from diverse backgrounds to gain valuable qualifications.”
“Importantly, it does not matter whether a particular Minister feels that they will not get the outcome that they want if they bring an issue to the Executive, because that is not the test. The test is whether the issue is cross-cutting, significant or controversial. If it is any one of those three things, it must be brought to the Executive for discussion and decision.”
“Absolutely. When we look back to the origin of that requirement, we find that it arose from the further negotiations in St Andrews. It is now part of the infrastructure and the processes around the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, as amended by the St Andrews Agreement. It is there to stop Ministers having solo runs on significant, controversial or cross-cutting issues. It is a safeguard for the Executive in recognition that they are a multi-party Executive and, therefore, on key issues, must act as one. They must try to build consensus as one. In this case, there is clearly a range of views. Regardless of the substance of the issue, it is incredibly important that we protect the integrity of those processes. We should protect the decisions that ought to be made by the Executive.”
“The matter was under consideration, as the Member may be aware, but it was not laid in time while these institutions were in operation. However, the courts have made it clear that the ministerial code is guidance. What matters is the primary legislation. The primary legislation endures, which means that the test remains the same: a Minister must bring for a decision to the Executive any matter that is significant, controversial or cross-cutting. Indeed, the judgements, legal cases and jurisprudence in all such matters also make clear that the Minister has no vires to make a decision that ought to come to the Executive on any of those grounds. Therefore, the Minister cannot make that decision alone, and, in this case, she absolutely should take the matter to the Executive for discussion and decision.”
“<BR /> <BR />Issues around the Irish language brought this place down. They were used as a reason to keep this place down for many years. That is a demonstration of the controversy. Some people have speculated that an Irish Language Commissioner would be supportive and that Irish language signage is therefore not controversial, but of course an Irish Language Commissioner would support Irish language signs everywhere. That is not the test. The test is whether it is controversial across the range of different views, and it clearly is. <BR /> <BR />We know that the Minister has no vires to take a decision that ought to have been brought to the Executive. In my view, the decision needs to be brought to the Executive, and the Minister should do so.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. It is absolutely clear to most people who look at the issue that the way in which the Irish language is displayed in public places, and this proposal in particular, is controversial. It has caused controversy. There are a number of strong views across the piece on the matter. The test that the Minister ought to apply her mind to is whether it is cross-cutting, significant or controversial. In this case, in my view, it is not only significant but particularly controversial and cross-cutting. Those are the two arguments that are currently before the court. The judge made clear his frustration that the matter had not been resolved by politics. I therefore believe strongly that the Minister ought to bring the matter to the Executive for discussion and decision.”
“Under section 20 of the Northern Ireland Act, matters that are considered to be cross-cutting, significant or controversial should be referred to the Executive for discussion and agreement. Under the ministerial code, Ministers have a duty to refer to the Executive matters that are considered to be cross-cutting, significant or controversial. Whether a matter is cross-cutting, significant or controversial is, in the first instance, for Ministers to judge after due consideration and acting in good faith in the context of the matter in question.”
“With your permission, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, I will ask junior Minister Bunting to answer the question as the very first in her new role as a junior Minister.”
“There are real legal challenges, however, which is why, internationally, no other state has been able to legislate to compel institutions to make contributions. I asked specifically about assets and was advised that asset transfer can sometimes be a liability for the Government due to contamination or the state of premises. Therefore, we need to be careful, if we are to go down that route, that it provides value and additional resources for victims and survivors. <BR /> <BR />Of course, all that is underwritten by the state, and that is the challenge. That £108 million is rightly recognising what people went through. That is going out through the state at the moment with a small contribution from the institutions. We continue to pursue that, but it has been a challenging situation legally.”
“Important issues are at play. At this stage, we have paid out just over £108 million in compensation to well over 5,000 applications received. The scheme is now closed, and only a small number of those applications are left. Those are being assessed, and it is anticipated that the panel will finish that work by November, when the assessment of those remaining applications will be completed. That is the aim. <BR /> <BR />Discussions with the institutions have been ongoing. There are legal challenges, there is no doubt about that. I assure the Member that we have pushed as hard as we can to make it clear that we believe that the institutions must contribute. We believe that there is an absolute moral responsibility as well as an acknowledgement of fault.”
“Those institutions should step forward and step up, acknowledge their role in the significant harms that were caused and come forward with those contributions as soon as possible to avoid us having to take action to force them to do so.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I record my huge thanks to Pam for her work as a junior Minister. She was involved in a significant number of meetings and engagements and on the detail of these matters. You were key in pushing the process forward and getting it to where it is, and I thank you for that work. <BR /> <BR />You are absolutely right. Discussions are ongoing with the mother-and-baby homes about how we can legally require institutions to give contributions. I believe that they should. The Member will be aware that, internationally, there are no examples of other places being able to legally require institutions to make a contribution. The moral obligation, however, is at the heart of this. It should not take legislation to force the hands of the institutions.”
“Thank you. Yes. I am pleased to say that we are making positive progress on that important issue. We are trying to maximise consensus among victims and survivors. We acknowledge that victims and survivors do not speak with one voice; that is completely understandable. However, we want to move forward with the maximum consensus that we can achieve. <BR /> <BR />I have previously extended my thanks and do so again to the Speaker's Office for all of the help and support that has been given to us to identify a suitable location for the plaque. We are working with a range of individuals and organisations to ensure that they are content with the draft wording of the plaque. We are making significant progress on that, and we hope to be in a position to place the plaque very shortly.”
“Such an investment is required to support people with redress and, as you rightly pointed out, for services to meet their needs today. As you will know, the junior Ministers are taking that work forward. They are, I understand, engaged in reaching out not just to the Irish Government to talk to them about their experiences of trying to get contributions but across the UK. We will take that learning and ensure that we maximise the opportunity to get contributions.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is incredibly important that we learn everything that we can from this process and roll that forward. There have been some significant successes in the process across many areas. I would have liked the institutions to have stepped up to make contributions earlier, but we are where we are, and we continue to work with those institutions. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right: there is a lot of commonality in the issues of HIA and those of mother-and-baby homes. We are acutely aware not just of the importance of contributions from the institutions in light of their part in the harms that were caused but of the strong message that it sends about an acknowledgement of wrongdoing by those institutions.”
“Victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse (HIA) have endured unimaginable pain and suffering over many years. We are committed to ensuring that they get the redress that they deserve. Payments have been received from the Good Shepherd Sisters, Barnardo’s, the De La Salle order and the Diocese of Down and Connor in respect of the De La Salle-run homes. Engagement with those institutions will continue in order to finalise their contributions. Constructive discussions are ongoing with the Irish Church Missions, the Sisters of Nazareth and the Sisters of St Louis. Details of the amounts received will be published once the process is complete.”