Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“More than ever, this year, it was critical that our voice was heard. Can we always dictate the outcome of such negotiations? Absolutely not, but the least that we can do is to do our best to make sure that Northern Ireland is on the radar and that people are aware of the implications for Northern Ireland of those big global decisions.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. This issue creates and will create some concern, particularly in the business community. It is a complicated issue. Significant work has been done at UK-US level to try to secure exemptions for the UK. That would benefit Northern Ireland, because, given that we operate in the UK customs market, all our exports are UK exports and would not be impacted on by US tariffs if the UK were excluded from them. It is more complicated the other way. Just this week, we met the French ambassador and the German ambassador to the UK, and I took the opportunity to raise with both of them my concerns about potential retaliatory tariffs and how they might impact on our exports. <BR /> <BR />The US is our number-two export market and our number-three market for imports, so this is a very important issue.”
“Engagement at state-to-Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland-to-state level can produce strong economic potential for Northern Ireland, particularly at a time when a federal economic policy led by President Trump may mean that, from an economic perspective, foreign direct investment is a bit more challenging. <BR /> <BR />There is plenty of good work to be done. I praise Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce in particular for recognising that opportunity but also the universities and so many other businesses that took time to be out there championing Northern Ireland and everything that we have to offer.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I recognise the incredible work that not just our businesses do. It is not just about US investment in business in Northern Ireland but about collaboration and our investment in the US. We have many examples, particularly through our universities and in the space of creativity, innovation and research in relation to aerospace, composites and different areas of expertise and high skills. Of course, cybersecurity is a key one. That is why it was so good to see the work at first hand, particularly the collaborations between the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and the North Carolina Chamber of Commerce. There is huge commonality in the areas that they have been focusing on, including life and health sciences.”
“I thank the Member for that important question. Since we were in DC last year, there has been a change of Administration in the Republic of Ireland, the UK and, of course, the US, so it was an important time not just to engage with business on our economic potential but to engage politically. The visit was a good opportunity, and we got the chance to talk to key people. Over that week, we saw the issue of potential tariff implications for Northern Ireland, the EU and the UK emerge, so it was key for us to be there, to turn up, to speak up and to champion Northern Ireland and the particular issues that we have.”
“We will continue to take every opportunity to ensure that Northern Ireland's voice is heard on the world stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />Promoting Northern Ireland in the US has a number of benefits in the short term and for Northern Ireland's economic future in the longer term. Promoting Northern Ireland through ministerial visits, inward visits and the work of the Northern Ireland Bureau focuses attention amongst investors and decision makers on our economic opportunity. It also ensures that issues, such as the impact of tariffs or the benefit of a special economic envoy, are better understood. It allows us to showcase and strengthen our cultural links, such as our role in the forthcoming 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. We brought the Claret Jug to Washington DC to highlight not only Northern Ireland's great sporting achievements but our location as a top venue for major events and tourism.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 6 and 11 together. <BR /> <BR />The First Minister and I are fully committed to promoting Northern Ireland in the US. Earlier this month, we led a Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry delegation to North Carolina that deepened the economic and innovation partnership that we have with North Carolina's highly successful research triangle. As part of that mission, we invited the governor to make a return visit to Northern Ireland to see what we can offer to North Carolina, particularly on collaboration. I travelled on to Washington DC, where I continued to promote greater understanding of Northern Ireland in meetings with the president of the United States, Members of Congress and other powerful stakeholders such as the US Chamber of Commerce.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, junior Minister Cameron will answer this question.”
“Of course, that then enables us to do more with the capital budget that we have.”
“I thank the Member for her question. That is under active consideration. Over the past number of months, we have been working with departmental officials and the SIB to finalise some elements of the strategy. Of course, much of the capital that we have available is already committed to existing projects. As I said in response to the previous question, however, it is really important to us that those projects start to come in on time and on budget. That is not the way in which capital projects have been done before. It is not just about getting the strategy out — we have committed to doing that over the next number of weeks — it is about the structures around it. How can we deliver our capital projects in a better way than we have done before? How can we make sure, as far as possible, that they hit their budget and time frame?”
“At this stage, however, I can advise the Member that I am open-minded on the way forward on this. I simply want a structure that works better than what we have had before and delivers against our ambitions for our infrastructure. I look forward to officials giving us those recommendations, and we will discuss the issue. As I said, the Executive will consider it as well.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The most important thing in all of this is that the assessment is of whether a commission would make a positive difference. In that context, it is notable that the National Infrastructure Commission in England has been rolled into another organisation. The UK Government tried that idea and have moved on from it and made some changes. That indicates to me that they felt that the commission, perhaps, did not do what they wanted it to do as initially envisaged. From our point of view, we want to assess whether this is the right way forward. We have the Strategic Investment Board and the investment strategy for Northern Ireland (ISNI), which is the Executive's strategic infrastructure document. We need to look at how we can improve on all of that.”
“A draft paper was produced by the interdepartmental working group in early 2022. It set out an initial assessment of options for consideration and was a precursor to more detailed analysis and the development of a business case. The working group was then stood down. TEO officials are reviewing that assessment alongside other developments and will provide us with advice on the next steps. We are considering the report from the recent Strategic Investment Board (SIB) review. The recommendations from the review will also inform that work. Decisions on the way forward will be a matter for the Executive in due course, but, as the Member knows, Executive papers are not routinely published.”
“Those areas were selected at a particular time on the basis of research at that time that looked at historical issues, community tensions and levels of criminality or particular behaviours. So, of course we must be open to looking at other areas. Where there is a need, those areas should have an equal opportunity to partake in the projects so that all communities are supported, regardless of where they are.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. Of course, if government is making those types of interventions, we want to see progress in the areas that have been targeted. We do not want to have to keep returning to the same areas time and time again and putting even more investment in, if, indeed, there is no positive outcome from that. There have been really positive results from many of the projects that have been rolled out, particularly those that have engaged closely with the PSNI and with young people in local communities. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right, however, to raise the point. There is no presumption, as I understand it, that phase 3 will apply to the same areas.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. First, it is about showing political leadership. It is also about standing, politically, shoulder to shoulder on these issues to make it very clear that, no matter what political party we are from and what position our party takes on the constitutional question or on the spectrum of political views, we stand together, united against criminality, thuggery, criminal gangs and any remaining paramilitarism. It would be really positive to send that clear message today, as we have done previously, saying, "This is absolutely wrong, and it ought to stop. Intimidation is never acceptable. We stand united on that".”
“Let us make no mistake, however, about the fact that there is no role whatsoever for criminality in our society today and there never was in the past.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I have said this before in this place, and I will say it again: there was never any justification for paramilitary organisations or for the criminal behaviour and the thuggery that we saw in the past and, sadly, see too much of in the present. That criminality should stop. That criminality demands a criminal justice response from the agencies. The agencies have my full support and, I believe, the support of all Executive members and parties in that. <BR /> <BR />Of course, we want to help and support communities to have resilience and robustness to resist those who attempt to assert control over them. That is very much what this type of programme does. It is supplementary to the criminal justice response.”
“While a range of factors may come into play, I am pleased that, since the commencement of the programme, there has been, for example, a 60% reduction in paramilitary-style attacks and a 71% reduction in the number of households presenting as homeless due to paramilitary intimidation. Furthermore, the number of convictions for paramilitary or organised crime-related activity has increased sevenfold since the outset of the programme.”
“I thank the Member for that important question. We measure that in a number of ways. I highlighted some of the sentiment surveys that we do with those who partake in the programmes initially and those who have completed particular projects. It is positive to see that participants in those programmes, particularly young people, feel more resilient and that they have more ability to resist those types of activity in their communities. They are more positive when they look to the future. <BR /> <BR />It is not just that, however. The heart of the programme is about driving down criminality and ensuring that every community, no matter where in Northern Ireland it is, has the social capital that enables it to thrive. To that end, there are statistics that we measure to assess the success of such things.”
“There was a 25% increase in individuals feeling that their communities are now more resilient to resist criminality and coercive control, and there was an 11% increase in building positive relationships with the PSNI. More generally, 60% of young people reported feeling that they can access health and well-being support, and a further 36% have a stronger voice in their community.”
“Communities in Transition is part of the Executive programme on paramilitarism and organised crime. Since 2019, the programme has delivered over £26 million of support across eight areas. Over the past year, many thousands of people have engaged with CIT programmes, including counselling, social action projects, accredited qualifications and support in schools. Evidence indicates that such local initiatives continue to be at the forefront of tackling a range of problems caused by paramilitarism and organised crime. <BR /> <BR />CIT participants reported a 7% decrease in feeling that paramilitary groups had a controlling influence in their community.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. It is estimated that £1 million will be the initial cost. That is the basic cost of a very basic structure compared with some other commissioner offices. As indicated, a number of UK-wide bodies already work in the area, including the Climate Change Committee, from which we can draw advice. Under the legislation, there are a number of new proposed bodies, including a just transition commission, each of which bring a significant cost. We need to be mindful of that. The projected cost of £1 million in the business case is based on a very basic structure. It is the minimum that will be required per annum for that type of post.”
“I do not think that there is a particular need for a Climate Commissioner at this time, but it is a legal duty that falls to the First Minister and myself, which is why we are moving forward with the appointments process.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. In light of the Chancellor's spending statement last week, everyone around the Chamber will be aware of the difficulties and financial challenges that we face due to the huge amount of work that we need to do to invest in our public services and the limited funds that we have to do that. Indeed, the initial costings for the office are estimated to be about £1 million per year. When the legislation was passing through the House, concerns were raised, which I share, about the role that the commissioner will play. We can draw on the UK Climate Change Committee for advice. There is a risk of some duplication in the role. The role was included in the legislation that was passed by the House, but it would not be my preferred way forward.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As the Member is likely to be aware, we need to take a number of key steps, particularly if the appointment process is carried out in line with the code of practice. The process has a formal nature, and we will follow all its steps. We will endeavour to get the advertisement out as quickly as possible and conduct the interviews. Those who are shortlisted may need to make a presentation. We will endeavour to get that done as quickly as possible, but the timeline is likely to be between six and nine months.”
“As I said, we will make the appointment in line with the code of practice for ministerial public appointments. The code has not been formally added to the appointment process for the role, but, as the Member will know, we can, of course, make such an appointment in line with the code, which is our intention.”
“We have not yet agreed on a timescale for the appointment of the Northern Ireland Climate Commissioner. Members may be aware that the draft Northern Ireland Climate Commissioner Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2025, which will give us the power to appoint the Climate Commissioner, are scheduled for debate on Tuesday 8 April. Provided that the regulations are approved, we will move quickly to agree on a timescale for the appointment. We will ensure that the appointment is made in line with the code of practice for ministerial public appointments, which can take six to nine months to complete after the process has commenced. There will also be work to put in place the necessary infrastructure to support the commissioner, such as the securing of suitable office accommodation and the appointment of staff to their office.”
“John "Paddy" Hemingway, 17 July 1919 to 17 March 2025: an absolute hero.”
“Of course, we grieve the passing of the last of "The Few". I am glad that, on his 105th birthday, at the British embassy in Dublin, he had a celebration marking his extraordinary life and the things that he achieved. It is also right to recognise how humble he was right to the last. On that occasion, he said:”
“I pay tribute to an absolute hero, John "Paddy" Hemingway, who passed away yesterday. John Hemingway, who was known as "Paddy", was born on 17 July 1919 and died on 17 March 2025, aged 105. We often talk about heroes, but, my goodness, this man was a hero. He was the last survivor of those who were known as "The Few" — those who fought with Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain. He was extraordinarily proud of being a member of the Royal Air Force and of being an Irishman. He signed up to 85 Squadron in April 1938 and flew Hurricanes and Spitfires. Read his obituary: my goodness, the things that he experienced. <BR /> <BR />What a generation; the things that they did, what they sacrificed and the things that they saw are absolutely incredible. It is right that we pay tribute to that incredible generation.”
“Many of those issues will be for particular Ministers, but core to the work of the Executive will be driving forward that prioritisation. At the heart of it is creating a peaceful, thriving society, growing our economy and making our public services work for people. That is so important, and it is very much what we are committed to doing. We look forward to working with all of you in the months and years ahead as we deliver against the Programme for Government.”
“It is not that there necessarily needs to be dedicated action just for them in order for them to feel that they are heard and seen. When it comes to all the key issues, we are very conscious of the mainstreaming of those considerations. <BR /> <BR />I apologise for not getting to cover all the many, many contributions. I think that there are probably about another 20 here, but I have talked for too long and cannot go into all the details. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I want to, as I said, give a promise to this place. We are determined to deliver, and what we have heard from this place gives a little bit of a flavour of how many issues there are. It is fantastic that our representatives are champions of so many different issues. Members are making sure that those issues are heard and articulated and that the concerns are out there.”
“That is a very important issue, and we have to learn many lessons about that from the COVID pandemic. Of course, it is also so important because every family is touched by it at some point. Dignity and support is something that we really need to address. I thank her for her intervention on that issue. She will have seen the result of that in the final document. <BR />I also want to refer to the hard work that many Members did on older people and older people's advocacy, including Claire Sugden and others on the Committee. We have reflected that in the changes to the document. A number of Members referenced a number of social inclusion strategies, and it is critical to us that every person in Northern Ireland feels that they are included in these priorities.”
“I am really tight for time, unfortunately, so I will try to cover as much as possible. <BR /> <BR />Joanne Bunting raised a number of issues from a justice perspective, including the cross-departmental approach to tackling justice issues. Again, we know that far, far too many people are sitting in the criminal justice system, particularly in relation to drug and alcohol challenges. That requires a cross-cutting, joined-up approach. She is absolutely right on that, and I know that the Committee will be driving that work forward, as well as the important work on ending violence against women and girls. <BR /> <BR />I also want to say a huge thank you to Joanne for all the work and lobbying that she did on palliative care inclusion, and particularly in relation to death and dying.”
“That is 7,500 police officers. I am really pleased that that is in the Programme for Government. It is something that we very much support. We know that that will require significant additional resource, but we are very much working to support a year-on-year increase to move towards that number.”
“It is page 48, the fifth paragraph. It is really important that we do this, because we know how important policing is on the ground. You will see from the commitment to this that it:”
“As Cheryl said, we can get this right, and now is the time to deliver on it. That is absolutely important. <BR /> <BR />Connie Egan referred to the increase in police officer numbers, which was also referred to by the Member for North Antrim Timothy Gaston. Indeed, on page 48 — I am sorry that the Member for North Antrim was not aware of it — of the Programme for Government, there is reference to fulfilling the New Decade, New Approach commitment that was set down to increase police numbers to 7,500 officers. A significant amount of work has happened. We know the cost of that. The challenge is now over to the Finance Minister to try to”
“Cheryl Brownlee spoke about the really important issue of SEN. Indeed, a number of Members did. Apologies if I do not get the opportunity to refer specifically to each one, but I know that a number of Members referred to SEN. We know how challenging it is for parents to try to navigate their way and get the help that they absolutely need. There have been so many campaigns about this. We want to do more. I know that the Education Minister is committed to driving forward the necessary transformation in that area. That is why I am particularly pleased that SEN is right at the heart of the Programme for Government. We recognise that special educational needs is a significant and growing issue that is not being dealt with in the way that we want. Therefore, it is right and good that we are looking at that.”
“I assure the Member that that is absolutely the case. While the transformation board looks at those and puts forward some recommendations, ultimately, it will be the Northern Ireland Executive that agree them, ergo giving it democratic accountability.”
“It is also important, as a core principle, that issues pertaining to devolved matters in Northern Ireland are left to those who have been elected to this place and are for Executive to decide.”
“Hopefully, this week, we will be able to bring forward more information about those transformation projects. Steve Aiken referenced that as well. We have the additional £235 million that was secured. The UK Government, through the NIO, sit on that board because the funding is additional to our block grant and was granted on condition that they also sat on it in terms of what would be done. That is potentially a useful thing. Across Whitehall, initiatives and interventions are happening in transformation, particularly in digitisation. It would be good to hear from them, through someone who sits on the transformation board, about some of the ideas that we could work on here. Steve Aiken is absolutely right.”
“<BR /> <BR />Diana Armstrong referred to the need for multi-year Budgets, which, as I mentioned, are key. She said that targets should align with the Budget, and that is also critical. As soon as we can get more information on that multi-year Budget, we will look at our plans and targets and make sure that we fit that in. A number of objectives in the Programme for Government require further work by Ministers. That will be the work of Committees. Those sitting in the Chamber will work on those Committees and ensure that the plans that come forward meet the objectives in the Programme for Government and are brought forward swiftly, while, critically, ensuring that the Budget is aligned to enable the relevant Minister to deliver against that aspiration. <BR /> <BR />Deirdre Hargey referenced digital innovation.”
“If we want our economy to grow, we need to support our businesses, and the Executive need to be able to do that. It also means investing in skills, tackling educational underachievement and trying to identify why so many people become economically inactive. We need those people in our workforce. We talk to companies week in and week out that say that they want good people with the right skills. If they can get those people, they will expand. We are world-leading in cyber, the creative industries, aerospace and defence. They all want good people. We can provide those good jobs with a good wage. We also know that that is the best way out of poverty. It is transformative not just for that person but, in due course, for their family, including their grandchildren.”
“I am really pleased that Northern Ireland has unprecedented levels of low unemployment. Just a couple of weeks ago, the figures on that came out. We have the lowest unemployment levels that we have had for a very long time. That is a good thing, but we have levels of economic inactivity that are much too high. We have challenges in productivity. Across the United Kingdom, there is stagnation in economic growth. Among the issues raised throughout Members' contributions — I may not be able to get to all of them — was the National Insurance employers' contribution. We are a small to medium-sized business economy, and, when we talk to businesses, we hear how that prevents them from expanding; in fact, it prevents them, they indicate, even from standing still. They may have to cut back in order to fund the measure. That is not acceptable.”
“People do not want the likes of us playing politics in this place, having petty squabbles about things or not being realistic about what we can achieve. The people of Northern Ireland want us to work constructively together, get on with it and deliver on the things that matter to them. The First Minister and I, working across the Executive, have really applied ourselves to that over the past 13 months, and we will continue to do so. Yes, a four-party coalition can be frustrating, and nobody will get everything that they want in the way that they want it. However, we endeavour, week in and week out, to do our best to find a way through and to find agreement and compromise. That is what we have done today. <BR /> <BR />Phillip Brett spoke from an economic perspective about prosperity and good jobs.”
“We do not underestimate the scale of that, and the Member is absolutely correct. <BR /> <BR />It is also important to note that all the measures are scalable. With, for example, targets for affordable and social housing, the more capital money we can secure, the more such housing we can build. Those things very much depend on the amount of money that we can get. Our promise to this place is that we will endeavour to find as much additional resource as we can to invest in all those issues. <BR /> <BR />I will move to Eóin Tennyson, who is not in his place. He had an awful lot to say at the weekend, or so somebody said to me. He said that the Programme for Government should not be the ceiling on our ambition. He also said that we should all work together in a spirit of cooperation. I very much agree with that.”
“Thank you. Yes, indeed, it is a really important issue. Some in the House have raised concern about the ambition in the document, but I can pull out a small number of key commitments that we have made: the expansion of affordable childcare; the investment of £135 million in tackling healthcare waiting lists above and beyond the £73 million specified; and the target of getting to over 7,000 police officers, which has been costed. With that small number of key objectives alone, we are probably looking at about £500 million of additional expenditure per annum. That is the scale of what we are talking about. That is before we even look at the additional investment in NI Water and our infrastructure, fixing the potholes more quickly, which everybody across Northern Ireland wants, and the many other issues that are referenced in the document.”
“<BR /> <BR />Diane Forsythe spoke from a finance perspective because the Chairperson of the Finance Committee spoke as leader of the Opposition. One of the big challenges that we have faced is undoubtedly the lack of a multi-year Budget. We are dictated to in that because of the Treasury's cycles. The First Minister and I have raised that issue directly with the Chancellor, and we believe that she wants to move to multi-year Budgets. There is no doubt that that would make our planning much better. When that happens, we will — this is a commitment to the House — revise our targets and plans and look at our Programme for Government in the context of that multi-year Budget so that we can look ahead not just to what we are committing to this year but to what we are committing to in year 2, year 3 and, hopefully, beyond.”