Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“It is about moving away from being generalist to having specialist skills to help the system deliver on time and on budget, because people want us to remove bureaucracy and inefficiency. Indeed, it is commonly referred to across the system, not just here but across the globe, as sludge: processes and procedures. That is holding back progress, and people are deeply frustrated. We need more progress instead of all the process. That is a critical issue to be addressed in order to deliver efficiency, effectiveness and delivery across our system.”
“I thank the Member for raising what is an important and timely issue. When I saw the Northern Ireland Audit Office report last week, I was dismayed, because reform is a key issue that I have been raising with the head of the Civil Service for some considerable time. It is absolutely clear that we need reform and transformation, and that must start with our Civil Service. We have more civil servants and public-sector workers per head of population than anywhere else across these isles. Many of them do a fantastic job, but it is also critical, at a time of fiscal constraint, that we look at ensuring efficiency and productivity across the system. <BR /> <BR />What does that mean? It means that we must rightsize the Civil Service and get the right skills.”
“I am not sure that I can be any clearer. I said very clearly that all families deserve truth and justice. Too many families have been denied truth and justice, and that includes the 90% who were victims of terrorist acts and atrocities. People across Northern Ireland are appalled by the hypocrisy of some, who demand truth from others but are not prepared to give truth themselves, when they know that they hold truth that could give great comfort to those families whom they made victims. I have been absolutely clear that I believe that all terrorism was wrong and that all victims deserve truth and justice. Can the Member say the same?”
“I appeal to all in the Chamber and, indeed, across Northern Ireland that, if they have knowledge about a crime that was carried out — a terrorist act or atrocity — they should come forward, speak to the police and give families closure. All families deserve closure and truth.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As he knows, I have worked very closely with victims and survivors right across Northern Ireland for many years, and I always believe in taking a very sympathetic and empathetic approach to them. Legacy is one of the big issues that was not resolved in the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement. Far too many victims and survivors, including the 90% who were victims and survivors of terrorist atrocities, have never seen justice. There are many people who know truth. There are people in the Chamber who know truth but have not come forward to the authorities to tell the truth that they know and about what they perhaps did.”
“As the Member will know, I am hugely enthusiastic about trying to re-establish transatlantic flights from the US to Northern Ireland and, indeed, other transatlantic flights if we can secure them. I can confirm that we have been working constructively with the airport on looking at the opportunities around that. I will be doing everything that I can to try to get that route re-established. The Member is right: pre-clearance would be a good thing to have. However, it is important to say that there needs to be a realistic prospect of re-establishing a transatlantic flight before the US will consider that. As I said, we are actively working on getting a transatlantic flight. Hopefully, that will progress over the course of the next number of weeks.”
“The Member is right: I want to work with the Infrastructure Minister and the rest of the Executive on planning for those types of initiatives for the future.”
“Certainly, I am enthusiastic about the proposals. There is, of course, a significant cost attached to that. As the Member will know, there are huge pressures on the system, and that is something that we need to feed into our wider infrastructure plans. On infrastructure, we need to do not only what needs to be done today; we must plan for the future. However, I am sure that the Member has been contacted by many constituents from across Lagan Valley, as I have been — I am sure that every Member has received such contact — about the state of our roads. It is disgraceful. People are frustrated; cars are being damaged. It is time for the Infrastructure Minister to get on with dealing with the everyday issues, such as potholes and the state of our roads.”
“There has been political agreement, a budget has been attached to that, and it is over to a system that, too often, has a focus on process instead of progress. We need to drive efficiency and reform; we need to rightsize the Civil Service; and we need to get the right people with the right skills to help us to drive forward delivery in every Department. That will be critical. It is not just about how much we have. It is about how we are using that money and how we are driving delivery in every Department.”
“I know how I spend the majority of my time; I do not need to ask anybody about how I spend it. I spend it trying to drive forward delivery from a very difficult system. I remind the Member that there has been a significant amount of delivery thus far, but we are not done. There is much more to do. I am not standing here and pretending that everything is perfect and that delivery is where I want it to be. It is a frustrating system through which to try to drive delivery. A critical piece of that will be Civil Service reform and making sure that we have a system of delivery. When we look at some of the key things that have not been delivered, we see that a lack of political agreement is not the reason for them not being delivered.”
“Many things have been delivered by Ministers in this Executive. While people may not always see the benefit to themselves, all those things collectively make a significant impact. <BR /> <BR />In relation to legislation, there is a process. The Minister looks at the policy; it goes out to consultation; it goes to the Executive; and then it goes to the Committee. The Member is well aware that the vast majority of legislation is currently undergoing scrutiny at Committee Stage, which is why it is not in the Chamber.”
“However, as I said last week, let us take a short look at what we have been able to achieve: over 200,000 additional appointments and procedures, driving down health waiting lists; the ending violence against women and girls strategy out, its framework out and the funding out and on the ground; public-sector pay settlements made; childcare scheme and enhancements to that scheme out, with the funding out and in the pockets of parents; full-time preschool increased; Lough Neagh plan agreed, with the actions under way; transformation fund phase 1 out; the cultural commissioners appointed and operating; the growth deals — secured by the DUP, by the way — already out and making a real difference, with Studio Ulster to be launched shortly and the Advanced Manufacturing Innovation Centre to be opened; and the PFG out.”
“I thank the Member for his question. This week marks two years since restoration, and I stand over the fact that I have worked tirelessly to drive progress. There is no doubt that our system of government is a challenging one. I do not believe that there is a more difficult form of government than a four-party mandatory coalition with parties from across the political spectrum. <BR /> <BR />Do I want more delivery? Absolutely. Will I continue to drive that? Absolutely.”
“That is unique to this part of the world — what is now Northern Ireland — and, indeed, this very small place has the most links to US presidents since the beginning of the USA. We should use that platform and take every opportunity to draw attention to Northern Ireland and, indeed, to opportunities for investment and further collaboration.”
“Absolutely, it is a unique opportunity. It celebrates and marks the US leaving the United Kingdom, but of course the Ulster Scots, or the Scots Irish, as they are known in the US, played such a pivotal role in that. I note that, last year, the Taoiseach made reference to a number of the Ulster-Scots/Scots-Irish people who were involved in the preparations for and signing of the Declaration of Independence. It is incredibly important that Northern Ireland firmly takes control of that process, and I am pleased to see my colleague Gordon Lyons doing so. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Scots were unique in having such a significant role in the US, not just in relation to the politics of the day but in growing America through its economy, business, industry and cultural life.”
“It is also important to say that, at the moment, a range of key decisions are being made by the president of the United States that can and will have a direct impact on our businesses and the people of Northern Ireland. As leaders across the globe are taking the opportunity to try to talk to and engage with President Trump to influence his decisions towards certain beneficial things and, of course, to urge him away from things that may be detrimental, it is incredibly important — more so than ever — that we engage, regardless of our personal views as to the politics of the holder of the office of president of the United States.”
“Of all jurisdictions, we are probably unique in our opportunity to have that level of access, and of course we should take it.”
“I absolutely agree with the Member: it is incredibly important for us to engage. A number of people in the Chamber attended the St Patrick's Day celebrations in the US last year. There are so many events offering so much access not just to the key policymakers and the president himself but to a range of businesses and other key influencers.”
“We will decide our plans for St Patrick’s Day once we have confirmation of the full range of events — and, indeed, invitations — scheduled to take place in Washington DC.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will answer questions 6, 9 and 11 together. <BR /> <BR />The US is the largest economy in the world. As our second-largest export market and our third-largest source of imports, it is a critical market for our economic development. Our relationship with the US is a long-standing one reflected in our ties to the signing of the Declaration of Independence, strengthened through the peace process and continuing today with major investments, such as Bank of America’s commitment to create up to 1,000 jobs. <BR /> <BR />The Northern Ireland Bureau will host its annual St Patrick’s Day breakfast in partnership with Invest NI, Tourism Ireland, Queen’s University Belfast and the Ulster University to showcase the Executive’s priorities.”
“None of those things happens in a vacuum; we know that they are interlinked and intertwined with poverty and, perhaps, poverty of ambition. We know that certain areas are more likely to have particular challenges. There are many different programmes that we can use that are all designed to put a multi-objective policy in place in communities. We need to do much more of that because it is more efficient but also because it makes sense to ensure that the projects have a number of policy objectives.”
“As I indicated, the Executive have previously agreed on a number of strategies, and there are a number of existing strategies. It is not the case that the group is necessarily developing policy or pushing forward new actions. We know that the actions that have already been agreed are underfunded, and some of those actions have not progressed. It is a good opportunity to get a sense of what is happening and identify what more can be done. The opportunity lies in embedding and mainstreaming our policies in a number of areas. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that there is a huge opportunity to break down silo working in the Departments, not just on this issue but on many issues, such as the anti-poverty strategy, promoting good relations, raising mental health or educational aspirations.”
“However, the Member is absolutely right: all Departments can do more to work together.”
“The Member is absolutely right: we know that suicide is devastating for the family and friends but also for the community. We often see a number of suicides in a particular area, and that can compound the impact. We can do more work collaboratively. There are factors that are indicators of suicide. Those who live in deprivation and young men who live alone are categories that, unfortunately, have a much higher rate of suicide. We can target that because we have a wide range of interventions across the Department of Justice and the Department for Communities, and, importantly, we have the data to identify those who are the most vulnerable. It is a key area for cross-departmental working, and it needs to be embedded across the Executive. I will raise the matter again with the Minister of Health, who takes the lead on the issue.”
“There are so many other opportunities, and we will actively look at those. I look forward to seeing the outcome of the all-party group's work.”
“Absolutely. It is important and timely work. While the group meets only annually at the moment as a checkpoint to get an update on what is happening, there is huge collaboration between departmental officials to drive forward the key objectives and actions in those strategies. We can always do more. One of the big issues that we can look at is how, at a time when funding is very tight, we can embed and mainstream best practice across the range of community intervention projects that we already have. That includes projects in the Department of Justice, the Department for Communities and the Executive Office. I see huge potential. We are already rolling out interventions. I think that well in excess of 130 interventions that relate to mental health are delivered through CIT, for example.”
“The figures in Northern Ireland are appalling — it is absolutely dismaying — but it is not that the figures are too high or low: we want to eliminate suicide completely. We are at the higher end of suicide levels across these isles. We want to work on that. Importantly, we want to mainstream the work across a number of funds. While the Department of Health's budget for such strategies is challenging, we can mainstream the work in ending violence against women and girls programmes, in Together: Building a United Community, in our racial equality funded schemes, in Communities in Transition (CIT) and in so many others. That will be really important if we are to make a real and tangible difference.”
“I thank the Member for raising that important issue. We completely understand the devastating effect that a suicide can have on a family, on friends and on a community. It is important to say that the Executive have already agreed a number of strategies. The policy direction is there, but there are significant funding challenges. We know that from the Health Minister's confirmation on the mental health strategy and on the important work on suicide prevention. The all-party group (APG) on suicide prevention is looking at a recent report to see what more can be done. I assure the Member that we talk about the issue regularly at substantive Executive meetings. It has been talked about in relation to a number of issues. <BR /> <BR />It is difficult.”
“The Executive working group on mental well-being, resilience and suicide prevention is chaired by the Minister of Health, who sets the agenda and organises the meetings. In the past two years, there was a meeting on 3 April 2025, and a further meeting is scheduled for 12 March 2026. We welcome the opportunity for the annual update, although we know that officials across Departments continue to work collaboratively to address the factors that contribute to poor mental well-being and suicide.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, junior Minister Joanne Bunting will answer this question and will group questions 4 and 14.”
“From a public-sector perspective, however, having an ethical framework embedded in the strategy from the outset and collaborating with other jurisdictions across these islands to make sure that there is consistency will mean that, when we use AI, should that be data, for triage or whatever, it is used in a way that best gives us confidence that its use is correct and abides by the ethical framework.”
“As the Member will be aware, a number of places are looking at the issue. I was disappointed to hear that Northern Ireland would not be included in the Westminster legislation on monitoring AI's generation of particular images. We have just heard from the Minister of Justice about introducing our own legislation. I continue, however, to pursue our inclusion in the Westminster legislation, which will be introduced much quicker. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely correct to say that we need to take an ethical approach to AI. Legislation will be required to catch up and deal with the dark side of potential technological advancements, including AI.”
“We have seen many abuses of some technological advancements. Some aspects are positive, but the technology brings with it a darker side, and we need to be careful about all that. It is also important that the framework ensure consistency in how and when we use AI. We should not be afraid of AI and digital transformation, because it has huge potential, but that is why we have embedded core principles and governance in the draft strategy that will go out to consultation shortly. In effect, the ethical framework will be part and parcel of that key strategy, which will be consulted on. That will then set the tone for and direction of the entire public sector.”
“There is huge potential for AI and digital to drive transformation. In the Department of Heath, for example, we have had the roll-out of Encompass. Northern Ireland is unique in integrating social care and health, and that system, using digital technology, should be able to give us useful data for planning, for looking at where issues arise and for rolling out even more transformation. That can be replicated across our system, but, of course, it has to be done ethically. I am pleased to say that the upskilling of civil servants in AI in particular and in digital skills more generally is well under way. In the Executive Office alone, by this time next week, just over 300 people should have gone through additional training on AI. We are trying to push through that training across the service.”
“<BR /> <BR />Transforming public service delivery through AI and digital technologies cannot be achieved by a single office or a Department acting in isolation. The success of the Office of AI and Digital will depend on cross-Executive support, with Departments working collaboratively. A collective approach, sharing best practice, is essential to ensure consistency, maximise impact and deliver sustainable improvements to public services across Northern Ireland.”
“The establishment of the Office of AI and Digital was a key commitment in our Programme for Government, providing strategic leadership and coordination on the responsible adoption of artificial intelligence across the Northern Ireland Civil Service. AI and advanced digital technologies have the potential to improve how public services are designed and delivered. The Office of AI and Digital will support Departments to identify and safely adopt technologies that can deliver efficiencies and improved outcomes. That will be underpinned by strong governance, transparency and ethical oversight. Our draft AI strategy sets out the overarching direction, with a strong focus on developing skills and promoting collaboration across Departments and with academia and industry.”
“<BR /> <BR />If I put on more of a political hat to discuss the issue, I notice that the Finance Minister's party in the South is jumping up and down in relation to the inadequate funding being given to social housing, yet our Minister with responsibility for housing is asking Finance Minister John O'Dowd to make sure that he gets what he needs to be able to meet the targets as set out, and he is open and transparent about that. It is important that the Finance Minister gives Ministers what they need to hit the agreed Executive Programme for Government targets.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. He raises a really important issue. The Executive's prioritisation took place through our Programme for Government, which we published last year. It is important that we look at what we are doing in each and every Department, with the support of the Finance Department, to see that we are adequately funding that particular Minister to be able to achieve the targets that are set out. The targets for housing in the Programme for Government cannot be reached with the proposed draft Budget that is given in relation to the consultation. That needs to be addressed.”
“Essentially, however, it must be a Budget that delivers the public services that the people whom we serve not only demand but, indeed, need.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Unfortunately, in this place, we see it too often: people focusing on whether or not something is moving instead of focusing on what it is actually about. <BR /> <BR />This Budget must be the right Budget. It must be a Budget that, for example, supplies the Department of Education with enough funds to provide the education provision that the children throughout Northern Ireland deserve. It must be the right Budget to ensure that the health service can reduce waiting lists and can drive transformation. We have an opportunity to get that right: to build the foundations for growth; to build the foundations to tackle, for example, the waste water and sewerage issues that are holding back economic development; and to get the foundations for our infrastructure plan correct.”
“That is the best use of public money, and we will work with the Northern Ireland Senior Civil Service leadership team to try to make sure that that happens.”
“I thank the Member for her very important question. This is not just about going to His Majesty's Treasury and asking for more money. It must be about a combined approach that looks not just at sustainable funding. I do believe that Northern Ireland has been underfunded. That has been the analysis of the Department of Finance for some years. We are suffering from it, and our public services have suffered from that. We want adequate funding, but we must rise to the challenge. It is important that it is not just about how much money we have; it is about how we spend that money. We must spend that money in the most efficient way, driving productivity across our public services, trying to eliminate waste where that occurs and making sure that we have the right people with the right skills delivering on time.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary question. I want to see a three-year Budget. That would give the most certainty possible to each of the Departments. That is the challenge and task of the Executive: to get around the table and try to find consensus. It is the primary responsibility of the Finance Minister to put forward proposals but, of course, he should do so in a way that he feels best meets the needs in each Department and will best achieve that consensus. That is the challenge that we have at hand. I look forward to constructive engagement with the Finance Minister. In the meantime, we will also continue to engage with Treasury to make sure that we have the tools available to us to ensure that we can meet the needs of so many people who need those vital public services.”
“Transformation across all Departments will be a key driver to allow the Northern Ireland Civil Service to act as a single, coherent system, sharing data, skills and resources to deliver better outcomes, reduce duplication and modernise public services in a way that is consistent, efficient and sustainable.”
“Addressing this disparity will require adequate funding from Westminster for public services as well as substantive reform and meaningful transformation in how we design and deliver our public services. Each Minister and their departmental permanent secretary must strive to improve efficiency in how our public services are delivered. We welcome the publication in April 2025 of the five-year people strategy, which sets out a five-year plan for developing the Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) workforce, improving skills and strengthening leadership.”
“We operate within a constrained financial environment, shaped by inflation, growing demand on public services and a sustained period of underfunding of our services. We welcome the £372·3 million of additional Barnett consequentials announced in the autumn Budget. While that may sound like a substantial allocation, the reality is that, when taken over a five-year period, it falls far short of what is needed, and we believe that the Chancellor could and should have gone further. <BR /> <BR />The delivery ambitions of Departments substantially exceed the funding available. There remains a significant and unsustainable gap between our ambitions and the resources at our disposal.”
“On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. The previous Member who spoke disgracefully and erroneously insinuated that the A5 has been prevented from progressing due to a DUP veto in the Executive. It is a matter of fact that the Executive agreed to progress the A5 and that it is indeed the courts that have stopped that progress due to a range of different issues. I ask that the Member addresses that issue and corrects the record.”
“<BR /> <BR />We should facilitate that delivery by working together. Of course, we will not agree on everything, and progress will not be as fast as we want it to be. I can, however, say this clearly: we are committed to doing all that we can to improve the process, work together and drive forward. That is why I am in this post, and my colleagues and I will do that. Yes, there will be disagreements, but the focus is on the nine key priorities and on trying to ensure that we can get movement in order to build the better, brighter future for everyone in Northern Ireland that, I know, we all want to see.”
“I assure people throughout Northern Ireland of my deep commitment to deliver. Yes, our system is slow; that is the way that it was designed. Can it be improved? Of course it can, but, in the meantime, we must all commit to doing our best to find where we have agreement. I am a firm believer that there is so much more that we agree on, whether it is fixing our health service, ensuring that education gets the funding that it needs or supporting special educational needs capital projects. We know what our needs are. We need to grow our economy, support our small businesses and send a united message to the UK Government about reducing VAT for our hospitality businesses. We need to encourage our arts and creative industries that do so well and to recognise all that is incredible about this wonderful place that we call home.”
“If there is no consensus, the only alternative is to force something through without agreement, but that is not the system that we have in the Executive.”