Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“Communities in Transition has operated across eight designated areas since 2019. Our officials are carrying out a comprehensive review of phases 1 and 2 of the programme to inform planning and delivery of any future phase beyond March 2025, should funding become available. As part of that, consideration will be given to refreshing the initial research that identified the current eight CIT areas. <BR /> <BR />On the impact of CIT in west Belfast since 2019, there has been the investment of approximately £3·7 million of projects delivered in the area, including health and well-being, community safety, employability, ex-prisoner support and restorative practice. From research, it is clear that those local initiatives continue to be at the forefront of tackling a range of problems in west Belfast.”
“This must be about supporting our existing public services, trying to ensure the transformation of and absolutely necessary improvement in those and continuing to build for the opportunity when further investment is available to us as an Executive for new and prioritised areas.”
“The Member will be aware of how challenging the current Budget is, and the number-one priority initially must be to try to maintain our public services to the best standard that we possibly can within the budgetary envelope. That will inevitably limit the discretion and flexibility that we may have for new policies, but we are very clear that this is not about trying to do everything and put everything into a Programme for Government. We want to prioritise, and, as I said, we have highlighted a number of those issues already, such as the lack of affordable childcare, which puts pressure on families throughout Northern Ireland. We all know about the challenges in the health service. Let us make no mistake: there is not a significant amount of money that gives flexibility for a huge range of new issues.”
“Those are big issues that will be prioritised, but it is right and proper that we take the time to ensure that they are properly integrated, through the roles that we hold.”
“The Member will be well aware of the difference between political discussions and being informed of ongoing issues and the duties that we, as Ministers, have to discharge in relation to the Programme for Government. Those are two entirely different processes. The Programme for Government process commenced when we took on these roles. Of course, there is learning to take from that process. We want to make sure that this is a Programme for Government that fits within our, sadly, limited budget flexibility, but one that makes a significant difference on the key issues. We have already highlighted what some of the priorities are: childcare, tackling the big challenges in our health system and supporting families with children who have special educational needs.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 10 and 12 together. <BR /> <BR />We are working to finalise a draft Programme for Government and hope to begin consultation soon. Publication and consultation dates are under consideration due to the pre-election period. We want to hear views on the draft document from as many people as possible during the consultation period. We will deliver a consultation process that allows individuals, stakeholders and delivery partners to help shape our vision, and we will make use of in-person and online events to help that process.”
“All those costs are, ultimately, scalable and dependent on how many staff there will be and on the agreement of the business and corporate plan. No body can ever do everything that it wanted to do, so it is about looking at whatever budget is available, and people being able to fit and to prioritise within that. Of course, the starting point for that will be to look at the statutory duties of each of the commissioners but also at the individual proposals that they make. It is absolutely essential that this is done on a fair and equitable basis. We look forward to seeing the plans being put forward and assessing those in accordance with the budgets that we are able to achieve for those offices, in order to ensure that they can make a meaningful and positive difference.”
“Public appointments processes generally take between six to 12 months, especially if they are new recruitment processes. The financial implications for that in this year's budget will come from the cost of the recruitment competition. We will not know the actual cost of the proposed offices until we look at the initial business plans for those. The business and corporate plans will come up for agreement. We have flagged it up with the Department of Finance that we currently have no budget lines to support this, but, in all likelihood, we will be in the next financial year before any expenditure will be required for the establishment of the three offices.”
“There will be three different recruitment competitions, all of which will operate at the same time, with the aim of recruiting eight individuals: that is, of course, because the office of identity and cultural identity will have more than one. It is a substantial undertaking. We have considered and agreed the initial submission. We are now waiting for more details around the legalities, the contracts, the proposals, the job specs and all those different requirements that we need to look at. It is a lengthy process, but we are determined that it will proceed and proceed in a way that gets the right people for those posts.”
“They are public appointments. They are also statutory bodies. They are brand new. Therefore, considerable work has been done on their establishment through the legislation. Because they are public appointments regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments, we have to go through a number of necessary legal steps.”
“TEO is responsible for taking forward the necessary arrangements to implement the provisions of the Identity and Language (Northern Ireland) Act 2022, including the establishment of the Office of Identity and Cultural Expression, the Irish language commissioner and the commissioner for the Ulster-Scots and the Ulster-British tradition. We have given initial consideration to the appointments process and hope to make an announcement in due course regarding the necessary recruitment competitions. We will keep Members updated.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Extensive work has been done on the review of the good relations strategy. Officials are finalising that strategy on the basis of the extensive consultation that they have done. We look forward to seeing those proposals coming forward.”
“Yes, absolutely. The first meeting of the BIC since devolution was restored will take place at the end of next week in the Isle of Man. We will participate in that. It is critical that we continue to build on those relationships. There has been significant change in the leadership of the participants. We look forward to building those strong relationships, because the big issues like climate change, growing our economy and the way that we operate in the international space will all be helped by closer cooperation, including across this United Kingdom.”
“We must all work collectively to ensure that there are immediate interventions while we continue with that research to ensure that there is the right longer-term intervention as well.”
“The issues that pertain to Lough Neagh are, of course, predominantly for the Northern Ireland Executive and the Minister of Agriculture. We had those discussions in the North/South format, particularly on sharing expertise and research. We know that those are longer-term issues, so that research and collaboration will be important in looking at the medium- to longer-term interventions. Urgent action is required now. That is why I welcomed the £1·6 million that is being set aside in the Budget for urgent actions this year. Most of the Executive supported that. We all know that parts of our constituencies touch on Lough Neagh, but it is a Northern Ireland-wide issue. It was disappointing that not all Ministers supported that £1·6 million's being allocated, but it was the right thing to do.”
“Meetings of the North/South Ministerial Council resumed on 8 April with a plenary meeting in Armagh. Since then, Ministers have met to discuss a range of issues in sectoral format, including trade and business development, special EU programmes, education, agriculture, language and, just this morning, environment and aquaculture. Meetings in the remaining sectors will take place over the coming weeks and months. The focus has been on ensuring that appropriate governance is in place for the North/South bodies, including appointing CEOs and board members and agreeing business plans. The North/South Ministerial Council is also considering how the various North/South Ministerial Council sectors can contribute to addressing climate change and the loss of biodiversity.”
“This is an unusual aspect of this in the sense that the initial redress scheme — the standardised payment — will sit alongside the public inquiry. You are absolutely right, and that was done on the basis of experience and that there is an actual and real need for that support now among those most impacted. However, we are also aware that a public inquiry takes time, not least for the legislation and the foundations of that but also for building the organisation up and listening to and considering the evidence. Yes, we are fully committed to the standardised payment being released at the same time. As you know, there is a phase 2, which is a more tailored payment that will come further down the line, but it is important to meet the needs of those most impacted as soon as we can.”
“Absolutely, and, as I understand it, we are in the process of establishing those meetings, if they are not already in the diary. I always believe that it is critical to speak directly to those most impacted, not only in this area but across all the policy areas in the Department. That is what the First Minister and I will strive to do, so, yes, we will meet those groups. We believe that that is very important, and we want to continue to ensure that the process is victim-centred and works for those most impacted by the issue.”
“We are actively considering the proposals and will include online and face-to-face events to make sure that as many people as possible have the opportunity to contribute during the 12-week period. This remains one of the most difficult parts of our past, but we are committed to the three core aims of truth, acknowledgement and accountability.”
“That will teach me a lesson to remove the material for the withdrawn questions. I did not have an answer to question 3, but I have an answer to question 4. <BR /> <BR />We are very aware of the needs of victims and survivors and remain committed to introducing legislation to the Assembly for a statutory public inquiry and redress scheme as soon as possible. There are a number of complex and sensitive issues for us to consider carefully. It is important that victims and survivors are at the centre of this, which is why a public consultation on the key policy proposals is essential. We want to meet the Victims and Survivors Consultation Forum and to seek the views of Executive colleagues before coming to a decision on some of the points. It is anticipated that the consultation will be launched in a matter of weeks.”
“Building on the good debate that we had in the Assembly, I believe that all parties are strongly united against paramilitarism and the demonstration of that through flags or in other ways. Likewise, it is a critical part of democracy that every candidate can stand and promote what they want voters to examine so as to give voters the opportunity to be as informed as they can be and to do so without intimidation. I believe that everyone across the House would be united in that approach.”
“It is incredibly important that we measure projects and interventions to ensure that the funding support goes into the right types of interventions in the right places. That is why we have a baseline for all of the individual projects. We monitor the improvement of relationships and attitudes within the cohort that takes part in the projects. We do that at individual project level but also across the programme by measuring all kinds of indicators, which are picked to give us a sense of how effective these things are. Yes, we monitor it continuously, and it is critical that those evaluations are woven into our consideration of the way forward when making amendments or changes to future funding schemes.”
“Yes, indeed. It provides a perfect opportunity to look not just at the recommendations coming out of the FICT report but at the thinking and considerations in that substantive report. The review is well under way. The stakeholder engagement process has concluded. There has also been an extensive paper research exercise in conjunction with the universities here — Ulster University and Queen's University — to look at the developments in key policy areas. That will all be woven into the consideration of the revised strategy. It would be absolutely appropriate, given the alignment between FICT and T:BUC, for that to be fully taken into account as part of that review process.”
“The central good relations fund was developed to be a flexible scheme, sitting in the centre. It was never designed to replace other funding, and other funding schemes are dedicated or ring-fenced for particular purposes. The central good relations fund is probably the most flexible scheme that we have. It is founded very much in section 75(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, which, of course, extends not only to political and religious viewpoints but to different racial groups. When it was designed, it took into account newcomer groups and other aspects of that. There is flexibility, but it is oversubscribed, and I suspect that it will continue to be oversubscribed because of the demand for it.”
“Since 2016, we have allocated over £25 million through the central good relations fund to support more than 780 projects across all geographical areas, to the benefit of more than 260,000 people. The central good relations fund is an annual, merit-based programme designed to deliver and support projects in areas where there is a good relations need. The projects are a key aspect of building peace and reconciliation, while bringing people together through common interests such as sports and arts and improving mental health. In addition, the projects often provide opportunities for participants to build new skills, gain qualifications and employment opportunities and develop new friendships. We remain committed to the central good relations fund delivery, with a clear focus on prioritising and maximising the number of projects delivered.”
“I thank the Member for that. Absolutely. The mechanism was put in place in order to ensure that new rules, regulations and laws impacting on the people of Northern Ireland would not automatically apply here without some type of scrutiny of or say in them. That is a core democratic principle. Therefore, it is absolutely right and proper that all Departments should do their best to support the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee in its work, because it is in the interests of all people in Northern Ireland to make sure that the rules, regulations and laws that impact on us are properly scrutinised and that the right advice is given.”
“I thank the Member for his question and his interest in the matter. That is a new area of policy for the Departments, and he will be acutely aware of that. I have spoken to officials in the Executive Office who have a coordination role in that in order to ensure that the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee is supported. I know that that new area will require some evolution. It is about ensuring that the right skills and expertise are there in order to support the Committee in that work. The Committee's role in understanding how the rules and regulations will impact on Northern Ireland is incredibly important. I have no doubt that those conversations will continue, and I am happy to have them.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that, because that is a constituency issue, I have been working with and speaking to the club, as have my constituency colleagues. It is an MOD site, so the matter is, of course, outwith devolved powers. Of course, I am happy to continue to have those conversations with the club.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Of course, sport was one of the signature projects of the first T:BUC. We are undergoing a review of that. I have no doubt that sport will feature heavily as we move into the revised strategy. I have had the great privilege, as, I know, he and many Members around the Chamber have, to go out and see some of the sporting activities that bring people together. It is absolutely right and proper that we enjoy not only the sports, identity and cultural expressions pertaining to ourselves but those that other people here in Northern Ireland experience, enjoy and love. That is a core piece of the work, and I have no doubt that it will move forward.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Absolutely. For too long, there has been a frustration among the organisers of golfing, road racing and other sporting events because of the need to try to secure the right funding and support from the right sources. We in the Executive need to crack that. Such events shine a global spotlight on Northern Ireland and on some of the most beautiful places that we have, such as the north coast and many others. We should be rightly proud of them, and we should all promote them. Of course, we need to offer not just funding but support in other ways through our Departments. I know that our Communities Minister will be at the forefront of championing not just golf but road racing at the North West 200 and our other great sporting events.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. I was there on Saturday, and it was a fantastic day and a fantastic event. I saw many volunteers working with those in the North West 200 to make it, as the Member said, not just a Northern Ireland event but a world-class event. It was absolutely fantastic. Thousands of families and spectators enjoyed the event, which had world-class competitors. It is a jewel in the crown of Northern Ireland, and we should be proud of it. I will push the case for additional support and the right support for the North West 200, road racing and other types of events that are positive for Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We have already made representations on the issue. We need the highest level of certainty that we can get. We do not want to get to the stage where we are looking over the cliff edge again without certainty on quantum or what the projects or schemes will look like. The relevant Northern Ireland Departments and the sector should be part of the process of developing phase 2 of the Shared Prosperity Fund to ensure that it is fit for purpose here. We also have the British-Irish Council in June, which provides an opportunity, at the highest possible level, to make those representations to ensure that the support is there in the next phase of the Shared Prosperity Fund or whatever replaces it.”
“When people come here and see the sector, they are amazed by how incredible it is, what it is able to deliver and the connections that it has in the communities that it serves.”
“I thank the Member for her question. To me, the answer is not necessarily confined to the Programme for Government. At every stage and level in all our Departments, we need to recognise the important role of our community and voluntary sector. Increasingly, over the years, our community and voluntary sector has rolled out core public services, and we need to recognise how important that is and the essential role that it plays. Very often, when budgets are tight, it is the first sector to be hit hard with the reductions, and the incredible value of the work is not recognised. That needs to change, and the sector needs to be protected. As I said earlier, the third sector does a fantastic job; in my view, the community sector in Northern Ireland is the best in the world.”
“Ultimately, we want to get to a sustainable public finance situation.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Many people ask why we have such demands on public-sector funding, but the reality is, as we know, that it is not just because our public services are structured in a way that costs more and that that requires a fundamental transformation but because we have additional needs. We have high levels of chronic illness in the 50-plus age group and that requires medical support and intervention; we have higher levels of special educational needs and mental health challenges that need to be addressed. We are all very aware of the high level of economic inactivity, and we need to support those people to get back into the workforce. There are additional pressures on our Budget that make funding our public services challenging, and that is why we need the additional support.”
“We cannot do that in the current fiscal envelope that we have been given. That is why we have made representations. We are not just holding out a begging bowl — that is not what we are about — but asking the UK Government to support us to do the necessary transformation to put Northern Ireland's finances on a sustainable footing.”
“There will always be a challenge to fund our public services adequately. The current Budget settlement has been very challenging. The Finance Department's assessment is that, over the past couple of years, we fell below what was deemed to be "assessed need". That assessed need is 124% of the per-head spend in England. Many here would dispute that figure, and we argue that it is higher. Some of the costs are logical: there are economies of scale, but there is also increased spend on policing because of the ongoing security situation. Infrastructure such as our water and sewerage costs a lot of money because it needs investment to make it more efficient. We have always made the point, however, that transforming our public services also requires an investment of funds to ensure that the efficiencies can come through.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Yes, I absolutely support that call, and we have made representations to the UK Government. We had a draft letter; I will just check and confirm to the Member that it was issued. The First Minister and I are certainly in agreement on that, and we intend to write formally, but we have raised the matter directly with the Secretary of State and the UK Government through other channels as well.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am pleased to say that the disablement payment scheme has given out over £40 million of settlements and awards to those who applied to the board. There is still significant frustration with the time that it has taken. As previously indicated to the House, the process is that people put in their application, and the reaching out for further information takes place after that. That has added to the time taken, because of the complexity of a number of the cases and because the incidents involved in some of them took place a considerable time ago. I understand the frustration entirely, but it is positive that we have got over £40 million out to those who need it most.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that it is not just one commissioner but two commissioners and a body. The Commissioner for the Ulster Scots and the Ulster British tradition, the Irish Language Commissioner and the Office of Identity and Cultural Expression will move forward together, and we intend to go about the appointments process for all three: the two commissioner posts and the new body. It is our intention to make the announcement very shortly.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The First Minister and I have received the submission on the appointments process, and we hope to make an announcement on it very shortly.”
“We have always been clear that, whatever the way forward is, it has to be sensitive to the victims and survivors and those who are most impacted on by the issues. There is huge economic potential, and as long as it is done in that context, we will have discussions to try to find an agreed way forward. I hope that we can.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I absolutely want to see the site's potential unlocked.”
“We recognise the immense economic, historical and reconciliation potential of the site and look forward to working with the recently appointed board to maximise that potential. We are hoping to meet the board in the next number of weeks. The Member will be aware that the Royal Ulster Agricultural Society (RUAS) continues to develop the area. Of course, it is the fantastic Balmoral show this week, so I hope that everybody intends to come down and support it. It is not just an absolute jewel in the heart of my constituency, Lagan Valley, but a fantastic showcase for the entirety of Northern Ireland.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, junior Minister Cameron will answer the question.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Paramilitarism has absolutely no role in the Northern Ireland of today. It had absolutely no role in our past, and it has no role in our future. As indicated, paramilitarism and, frankly, the criminality that is involved in current activities need a robust criminal justice response.”
“We heard from members of the police, teachers and community people who were using the restorative justice practices funded and supported through the programme. We heard about how the project de-escalates situations in classrooms and schools in the community, avoiding the situation getting to the point where it is much more serious, including in its consequences for the pupils involved. That is a fantastic project. I always emphasise that we could not do this without our fantastic community partners on the front line who roll the projects out and deliver them.”
“I thank the Member for his question. For any of these projects, in any Department, there is, rightly, an obligation to have an evaluation process. That will measure the outcomes. It will look at the outcomes set at the beginning of the project, at the indicators and at what was baselined for what the project was designed to improve on. Of course, we then curve back round, sometimes periodically throughout a project and sometimes at the end of a project, to assess how effective it has been. We have not always been great at taking the programmes that have been evaluated as being most effective and ensuring that they are mainstreamed and moved forward. We need to get better at that. <BR /> <BR />I attended a great event just here in the Great Hall for one of the CIT projects relating to restorative justice.”
“We will support communities to have resilience, but criminality is wrong and was always wrong. It needs to be called out, and it needs that robust reproach.”