Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,234 lines we hold for Emma Pengelly, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 37 of 45.
“The Member will be aware that a significant amount of work and consultation went into the previous draft Programme for Government. That included a consultation on a well-being framework and an outcomes-based framework. That is very much the direction that public policy is moving towards. It is about encouraging people to look at cross-departmental collaborative actions that should be focused on the outcomes. What is it that we are trying to achieve? Of course, key to that is the measurement of progress against those outcomes. We have a well-being framework that is live across all section 75 groups and is being monitored. Of course, we will be focused on ensuring the right matrix for an outcomes-based approach to the Programme for Government.”
“The process is ongoing. The First Minister and I expect proposals to be brought to us shortly. There is, of course, an in-built consultation process, and not just with the Assembly, which is a legislative requirement. However, we also want to get out there and listen to various groups about the issues on the ground. You are absolutely right. We only have to look to our closest neighbours to see the housing crisis there in terms of not just homelessness and social housing but access to affordable housing for families right throughout those places. We are very conscious of that. In order to prevent that from happening here, work needs to commence now. We have already discussed that, and it will be fully taken into account in the PFG process.”
“That is shared by the Executive. It is, however, important that the Executive develop a Programme for Government at a sensible pace, take into account all the relevant issues and ensure that our collective priorities are considered alongside an incredibly challenging financial and operational backdrop.”
“We all want to see a truly transformative Programme for Government (PFG) that sets a clear strategic direction for the Executive and enables the type of cross-departmental collaboration and working needed to improve public services and tackle long-standing social, economic and environmental concerns. To achieve that, we are committed to working in partnership across the Executive to deliver an ambitious programme that responds to the challenges we collectively face. We have started to address those challenges already by moving quickly to tackle public-sector pay, starting the work needed to make childcare affordable and seeking to work urgently with the Treasury to put in place a more sustainable financial settlement. While we have not put a specific timetable around that yet, we know that the Assembly would like to see progress quickly.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I want to highlight the point again that an Executive strategic direction called Bright Start was agreed by the Executive. Fifteen key actions were allocated against it. People seem to have forgotten that, but it was there. It is, I think, to the regret of everybody that that was not advanced to a full strategy, despite significant consultation, but there is an opportunity now to do that. I just wanted to clarify that point.”
“Will he confirm that urgent actions will also be required, and that he will bring some of those immediate actions to support parents in crisis at the minute and the childcare settings that are really struggling?”
“I thank the Minister of Education for giving way, and thank everybody for bringing and speaking on the motion. Will he agree that the Executive have been engaged in this for some time? Right Start was a strategic direction back in 2013 with 15 key actions. However, the big challenge that was faced was a collective pulling together to prioritise the resources and funds required. We know that this will require significant investment, but what I hear is that everyone recognises that, without investment by the Executive, this simply will not work; it will not be funded. <BR /> <BR />In addition to a well-funded, well-designed strategy, which is much needed, we need urgent actions. I am glad that this was on the Executive agenda for the first meeting last week. The Minister has indicated that we will have discussion with a paper this week.”
“I know that all of us around the Chamber talk a good game about transformation, but we in the Executive have a determination to move forward with genuine transformation. That must mean having a focus on delivery and outcomes. It is not just about speeches and buzzwords. We are genuine about that. As I said to the Member for North Antrim, it is not just about holding out our hands and asking for money without condition from the Government; it is about making a clear case that we are prepared to do transformation in a timely way. We want our public services to be transformed so that they work for every person. For us to do that, however, the Government need to work with us, not against us. Give us what is necessary for us to deliver for every person whom we represent in Northern Ireland.”
“As I referred to in my initial speech, it could be parents seeking to get the right special educational needs support for their child or trying to get their child into the appropriate education setting. It could be people on waiting lists and their families who are desperately worried and seeking help and support. It could be people who see potholes and other things that we need to get fixed. Fundamentally, we have all kinds of issues that require public finances from the everyday things that we see all about us to the huge issues of infrastructure and structural reform in health and education. That requires additional funds and the right tools for our Ministers to be able to invest and deliver. <BR /> <BR />Thirdly, as mentioned, we need funding for transformation.”
“That is why I refer to the Independent Fiscal Commission. It did a very important piece of work that recognises that we are not currently funded on the basis of need, and that requires additional support. The financial package will address the issue in large part in this financial year and the next, although there will still be challenges, but it does not provide us with a longer-term fiscal guarantee on the funding formula. That is what we seek from the Government. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, we need funding for stabilisation to halt the decline in our services, to repair the harm that has been done and to give us a firm foundation on which to plan transformation. Every one of us has had constituents walk through our doors with all types of issues and challenges around public services.”
“<BR /> <BR />That is why we ask for three things from the UK Government. The first is a genuine fiscal floor where the funding reflects the independent evidence of need from the Fiscal Commission. I want absolutely to emphasise that this is an independent commission. It is not just our opinions: "We want a little bit more money because we do not want to make difficult decisions." I believe that every member of the Executive is up to making the difficult decisions required to put our public services onto a sustainable basis, but we need a recognition that there is additional need.”
“I thank the Member for his contribution. The record shows that it is indeed the case that there were many parties willing to go back in. Nevertheless, today is about moving forward with consensus. I welcome the recognition of the hard work that went into achieving this significant amount of money, but, as I have indicated, today is about showing joint purpose and unity. It is not, in my view, about political division. This is about sending a clear message to His Majesty's Treasury and to the Government that we want and need to secure sustainable fiscal guarantees to enable us to do the reform: the longer-term and multi-year budgets and the type of reform that is required. The reality is that we have to keep our public services going while we invest in reform, and that requires investment. We need the tools to do that.”
“I just want to respond to the Minister of Justice first. <BR /> <BR />In relation to the point that has been made, it will be for the public to judge what has been secured. It is certainly not a sufficient amount of money. It is better than where we were. We took the opportunity. It is important to say that all the parties involved took the opportunity to emphasise at the time that we had concerns in relation to some of those proposals. We indicated strongly that we would continue to make the case for additional support. We are not asking for anything that is unfair. We are not saying, "Write us a blank cheque, and let us do whatever we want." There is a strong commitment to reform, but that reform needs the right resources. We have made progress, but there is more to do. <BR /> <BR />I will take an intervention from the Member.”
“I thank the Minister for her contribution.”
“I welcome the fact that some in the Chamber who perhaps made reference to that being a significant bribe or a huge amount of money seem to now recognise that everybody can tell that this is insufficient for what we need to do. However, we accept that we are £3·3 billion better off compared with where we were. That is welcome. That will support many families and communities. It will go a long way in supporting public-sector pay claims.”
“We have other fundamental concerns in relation to the financial offer, as set out in the detailed letter. I welcome the fact that the Prime Minister took the time to visit yesterday because it provided an opportunity for us to speak to him directly. We took that opportunity to make the case, directly and robustly, that we need that additional support. I welcome the constructive engagement that we have had from the Prime Minister and others on the financial issues. I welcome in particular the fact that we secured, through significant hard work, an additional £3·3 billion. That is £3·3 billion more than we would have had without those hard discussions.”
“We have had much discussion about a promise of a fiscal floor, but we know that, as it operates currently, it will be more of a fiscal ceiling. That needs to be addressed. We absolutely welcome that there is some short-term support, but we really need the long-term stability that we can get from fiscal guarantees. Frankly, the concept of charging hard-pressed families here more for poor or poorer services is not something that we will accept.”
“That sends a strong and positive message, and I hope that it sends a very clear indication to the Government not only that we are serious about this issue but that, most of all, we have a shared interest in it. We were also keen that there was the opportunity for the issue to be debated in the House so that parties that are not part of the Executive could also indicate their support. I am glad that that has happened today. That shows the importance of the issue, the strength of feeling about it and the unity of purpose. We have to get this right. <BR /> <BR />The First Minister has laid bare some of the challenges at the heart of the Government's financial offer. I do not want to repeat that, but I will echo what the First Minister said.”
“We want to ensure that we can take meaningful action that can result in the right outcomes. However, to do that, we need the right tools. Members across the House mentioned that. That means getting the right long-term fiscal settlement for Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Incredibly, I first came into the Executive Office, which was then called the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM), 17 years ago. I have had the privilege of serving as a special adviser, a junior Minister and now as deputy First Minister. I had some time out from the office, but I have served for a considerable time there. In all that time, I do not recall an Executive or a First Minister and deputy First Minister collectively signing a letter on the very first day on which they were appointed to those roles.”
“I welcome the fact that, across the Chamber and, with some exceptions, across all the political parties represented, there has been strong support for what we are trying to achieve not just for the Executive or for those who sit in the House but for the people of Northern Ireland, no matter where they come from or what community they live in. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Members who tabled the motion and thank every Member who spoke during the debate. Many important issues have been raised, many of which we have already spoken about, certainly in terms of the First Minister and me but also in relation to the Executive, as I referred to earlier. We are conscious that there are really important issues that genuinely matter to people and that demand action.”
“Thank you very much to everybody who contributed to the debate. The suggestion from the Alliance Member for North Belfast might set a dangerous precedent: if the First Minister and I could write letters to excuse children from school, we may be occupied for much of our time. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the debate, and, like the First Minister, I welcome the support on this important issue. We felt that it was incredibly important for us to be here and for both of us to contribute to the debate to show that there is a strong and joint endeavour to get the right and fair settlement for Northern Ireland while recognising that progress has been made.”
“It is not just about the person and their family and friends; we rely hugely on the incredible work of so many people in our health system, in the hospices and beyond. It is about the people who care for and support people going through what is often the very worst time of their life. We should put on record our thanks to them. I have no doubt that the King will receive excellent care, as do many of those who go through a similar journey throughout Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I also extend my condolences to the family and friends of former Taoiseach John Bruton this morning.”
“There are waiting lists for all kinds of different issues of course, but, in particular, we discussed the waiting lists for cancer because they are, quite simply, unacceptable. That is a very good example of the type of issue on which we, collectively, need to work to try to resolve. I am confident that there is that collective will, just as there is in the House today as we send our best wishes to the King, to work together constructively to find the solutions that, as we know, so many families and individuals need. <BR /> <BR />Many in the House and beyond will be deeply concerned to hear the news today about the hospice. We will raise that and, hopefully, find a resolution.”
“I add my thanks to the Member for bringing this subject forward. It is incredibly important that, across the House, we formally offer our concerns and best wishes to His Majesty The King. <BR /> <BR />We all know that it is about not just the person who goes through that journey, difficult as it is, but the huge pressure that is put on the family and friends of those who are suffering. I am sure that many people across the House have been through that or at least know many people who have been through or are going through that very challenging journey. We absolutely wish His Majesty The King all the very best for his treatment and recovery. <BR /> <BR />I am glad that, at our Executive meeting yesterday, we took the opportunity — it was important to do so — as one of our first items of business, to talk about the waiting lists for cancer.”
“We all agree that drugs destroy communities and that the police need the resources to put the dealers out of business. We can all agree that economic prosperity is the game changer for every community. <BR /> <BR />Let us be a source of hope to those young people who are watching today, not one of despair. Let us prove that difference, through recognition and respect, can be a strength and that difference need not be a barrier to progress and delivery. This is my pledge: I love this place that we call home, and I will work tirelessly for delivery for all the people of Northern Ireland, from every background. I will do so to the best of my abilities, honoured by the privilege and opportunity to do so. Let us do it, side by side, and let us keep Northern Ireland moving forward.”
“We can agree that too many mummies, and some daddies, are having to give up work because childcare is too expensive. We agree that our teachers need to be supported and equipped to teach and that our public-sector workers need to be properly paid.”
“Whatever path we take — on health service reform, schools reform or improving public services to make this place the thriving and flourishing Northern Ireland that it can be — we will succeed only by walking that path side by side; not by dismissing and demeaning each other's concerns. There can be no dominating of one over the other; rather, there must be a new approach of recognising the concerns of each other and finding solutions together. We are all born equal, and the people who look on this sitting today demand that we work together. Michelle is an Irish republican, and I am a very proud unionist. We will never agree on those issues, but we can agree that cancer does not discriminate and that our hospitals need to be fixed.”
“The daddy fighting to get the right educational support for his child is defined not by orange or green but by the stress and anxiety for the future of the child whom he loves. Let that be your inspiration, for those are the issues that we can agree on. The challenges that so many families face throughout Northern Ireland are the same no matter where or what we are or believe. It is those shared problems, which are blighting too many lives, that we can work constructively and urgently together to improve. <BR /> <BR />We must learn the lessons of the past seven years.”
“As a child, I did not understand the politics of it, but I will never forget the fear, the hurt and the anger. There are moments in each of our lives that shape us. The past, with all its horror, can never be forgotten, nor will it be allowed to be rewritten. While we are shaped by the past, we are not defined by it. The experience of my childhood gave me the drive and desire to make a different future, not for just myself but to do all that I could and can to ensure a better future for all of us. <BR /> <BR />Across the Chamber, we have different political viewpoints and experiences. However, we know that the wee mummy waiting for her cancer diagnosis is not defined as republican or unionist; she is defined by sleepless nights and the worry that she may not see her children grow up.”
“I thank Sir Jeffrey and deputy leader, Gavin Robinson, for their support by being here today, their leadership in getting us to this point and for the great honour of being asked to step up and serve. <BR /> <BR />Like so many across the Chamber and throughout Northern Ireland, I grew up with conflict. As a child of just 11 years old, I stepped outside my Markethill home on a warm August afternoon to the absolute devastation from an IRA bomb. Seared in my experience is that haunting wail of alarms and the sounds of our emergency services, the carpet of glass and debris, the shock, the crying and the panic that shook and destroyed that place I called home. I am thankful that our young people today do not have to face that terror, which so many of us here faced.”
“Serving people in this House in any role is an honour and a privilege. It is an opportunity to shape Northern Ireland for the better and to make a meaningful difference. I love Northern Ireland. I am deeply proud to be from this place that we call home. Despite our often troubled history and divisions of the past, I know that we have incredible potential. <BR /> <BR />As a young girl sitting in Markethill High School almost 30 years ago, I could never have imagined that, one day, I would have the opportunity to serve in such a way. This is a responsibility and an honour that I will never take for granted. Each and every day. I will strive to make this place the very best that it can be.”
“It is a day that confirms the democratic outcome of the election.”
“First, Mr Speaker, may I congratulate you on being elected by both sides of the House to serve as Speaker? I know that you will carry out your duties with diligence, for which you are known, and great dedication. As one of the class of 1998, you have unrivalled experience on these Benches. I look forward to working with you and the rest of your team in the Speaker's Office. I also wish the outgoing Speaker well in his retirement and thank him sincerely for his service to the House. <BR /> <BR />Michelle O'Neill and I come from very different backgrounds, but, regardless of that, for my part, I will work tirelessly to ensure that we can deliver for all in Northern Ireland. I recognise that, for many, today is an historic moment with the nomination of Michelle O'Neill and me as First Ministers.”
“I confirm that I am willing to take up the office of deputy First Minister, and I affirm the terms of the Pledge of Office as set out in schedule 4 to the Northern Ireland Act 1998.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I hear some laughter across the Chamber, but does the Member agree that the DUP went back into government in 2020 on the condition, as outlined in 'New Decade, New Approach', that Northern Ireland's place as an integral part of the United Kingdom would be fully restored? In government, we sought to renegotiate the worst parts of the protocol, but, instead of receiving support around the House, we were undermined by every other party's signing up not to help get those changes made but to the protocol's rigorous implementation, thus undermining the negotiations at a critical time, not just for a week or a month but for two full years.”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. There is no response to a point of order from a Member. I asked the Acting Speaker to make a ruling on that comment. It is factually untrue. To leave the comment on the record would be to mislead the House and the people of Northern Ireland. The Minister of Education has not backed any reduction in pay for teachers who are striking or otherwise.”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. The Member for West Belfast said on the record in the House something that is factually untrue: that the Minister of Education has backed a reduction in pay for teachers. I ask you, Mr Acting Speaker, to require the Member for West Belfast to retract that comment or to produce evidence otherwise, because my clear understanding is that that is entirely factually incorrect.”
“Unless we get the protocol resolved, it will create huge amounts of paperwork and cause costs to be passed on to the ordinary people of Northern Ireland at a time of a cost-of-living crisis. This is bad, and we need to get it resolved. <BR /> <BR />I appeal to all of you to stop the shouting across the Chamber, the jeering and the insults. Get around a table and find solutions. The sooner the issue is resolved, the sooner the Northern Ireland Executive can get back and this place can function properly. It is in all of our hands.”
“I do not have time, unfortunately. <BR /> <BR />When the protocol came into effect on 1 January 2021, the problems unfortunately emerged. We have seen some solutions and some tinkering with those issues, but what we need now is a genuine resolution. <BR /> <BR />The Member opposite asked, "What is it that the DUP stands for?". The DUP believes in Northern Ireland and wants Northern Ireland to work. It cannot work if there is a deep fracture, and that fracture is caused by the Northern Ireland protocol. We are all here today and can continue our process only if the Assembly and the institutions are based on the concept of consent. Unionism is no longer consenting to be part of a process that demeans, disregards, dismisses and insults its genuine concerns. This is not just a unionist issue.”
“When the protocol was announced in late 2019, there was a full year before it came in on 1 January 2021. In that year, we highlighted the many problems and concerns that we had. We went to the British Government and to Brussels, but, rather than getting the compromises that we needed, parties across the Chamber ran to Dublin and Brussels and asked them not to give an inch, not to compromise and to implement rigorously the protocol as it stood.”
“I appeal to everyone around the Chamber by saying that the only way that has ever worked in Northern Ireland is through us speaking to one another and trying to get solutions together. That has not happened for over two years.”
“I thank the Member for that contribution. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that we all have issues that matter deeply to us and to the communities out there, and we must do our best to get those issues resolved.”
“I am dismayed, frankly, to hear from the Benches across not just the demeaning, disregarding and dismissing of the deep and genuine concerns of unionism that we have heard for the past two years but now insults. <BR /> <BR />I could easily say to any of the Members on the Benches across, "When was the last time that you spoke to people who were in the IRA?". I could easily call out the behaviour of the past number of years. In the five years of the previous mandate, Sinn Féin brought down and kept down the institutions for three years. You have said today that it is OK when you do it and that it is OK when it is an issue that is important to Sinn Féin but that, when it is an issue that is of concern to unionism, "Forget all about it. Get in there. You are talking nonsense". We are utterly dismissed.”
“First, I congratulate the Members who made their maiden speeches today. Well done to all those who contributed. <BR /> <BR />I am utterly dismayed by the tone and nature of the debate. Of course we do not all agree; we all know that. I have been involved in the process since 2007, and I have worked with many Members across the House. The one thing that we all know is that, in order to make the process work, we need to understand one another, to show some respect and to work on solutions together. I am dismayed to hear the jeering and sneering from others about the concerns of unionists. I am deeply dismayed to hear the genuine issues of unionism being described as nonsense, a tactic or some sort of a stunt.”
“On a point of order, can we clarify whether there will be a translation or if is this a time to use the headsets? That would be helpful for all Members.”
“What discussions has the Minister had with the chair about the legal costs associated with the inquiry and about a time frame to ensure that the findings can be brought forward as soon as possible?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. In one sense, it is a little unusual, in that it is not clearly within the Finance brief, but is an operation of the ministerial powers in relation to this. I very much welcome that. <BR /> <BR />The DUP has, for some time, made it clear that we want an independent and robust inquiry capable of getting to the truth, regardless of what form that inquiry takes. There are some concerns, as the Minister will be aware, in relation to an inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005 in relation to the potential for excessive legal costs and the potential for a lengthy inquiry. I am somewhat disappointed to hear that there is no intention to publish an interim report. I know that people want to see the truth about this. I know that those who feel unfairly vilified want the truth to come out as soon as possible.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. He will be aware of some very good organisations, not least in my constituency, such as the Annadale and Haywood association and the Ballynafeigh community organisation. Across South Belfast, we have many great organisations. Some of those organisations applied to your Department's capital grant scheme, but, unfortunately, some were not able to do that within the timescale. Are there plans in the Department to reopen the scheme to applications next year? It was a successful and much sought-after scheme.”
“Minister, you will be aware of the very good work that many thousands of small community organisations do across Northern Ireland. I know that you have been very supportive of those and have been out to see many of them. Those organisations have a significant number of volunteers, and they apply for small grants, for example. I am aware that your Department has a small capital grants scheme at the moment.”
“Albeit belatedly because the point has rather moved on. The Member stated a number of times that Arlene Foster removed the tariff tiering from this. The evidence thus far to the PAC and elsewhere has absolutely clearly indicated that that is not the case. The recommendation to the Minister did not have tariff tiering in it. On what the Member — who sits in the Chamber also as a barrister and as somebody who has been in the courts for a very long time — has just said about people paying the price, he knows that the proper process should be that the evidence is heard, the judgement is given and, after the judgement, there are the consequences. That is the appropriate way to deal with this, not for people to be hounded before that evidence is heard and due process takes place.”