Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,234 lines we hold for Emma Pengelly, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 13 of 45.
“Before I begin, with your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I would like to take a moment to reflect on the tragic deaths of Vanessa Whyte and her two children, James and Sara Rutledge. Those were absolutely horrific murders, and I have no doubt that everyone across the House shares in the horror of what happened. It emphasises, once again, the absolute need for us all to work together to end violence against women and girls. I pay tribute to the dignity and courage of their friends and family, and I think, in particular, of the school friends and other schoolmates of both of those children as they start back to school this week, with the grief that, undoubtedly, they will feel. <BR /> <BR />We want to ensure that all women are safe and feel safe everywhere.”
“It goes both ways: there are opportunities, but, undoubtedly, there are challenges that need to be removed. As I said, I am deeply disappointed that the UK Government are not stepping up to fulfil the promise that they made to me, to us and to the people of Northern Ireland to protect the internal UK market. Protecting the integrity of its internal market is basic and core for any country. The UK Government have an opportunity to do that, and they should do that. The measures that are in place at the moment are unnecessary, disproportionate, bureaucratic, damaging to business and bad for consumers. We ask that the UK Government deliver on what they promised: unfettered internal UK trade.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I will speak personally on that. Intertrade UK exists; it has been created. The fact that that gap was identified and that there was a genuine push to address it is important. We now have not only the East-West Council but the Council of the Nations and Regions, which is an important forum that engages with not just the heads of devolved Governments but local and regional mayors. Many of the areas represented are significant — bigger than Northern Ireland — and we can have a lot of good engagement there. <BR /> <BR />Intertrade UK is important. Northern Ireland, as 3% of the UK, has huge potential to sell into the rest of the UK. Having 3% of the UK population, Northern Ireland relies on the rest of the UK for its consumer market.”
“The Connect Fund is a good start, and it is important for the body, but I want to see the Council truly build on that and become a "Cooperation UK", so that we can reach out to and know people from across all parts of the UK to have political, civic, academic, educational and community engagement. Those collaborations and synergies will bring benefits for all the jurisdictions in the UK.”
“The East-West Council can carry out really important work. The reality is that, when we look at all the North/South work over the years, we see that there has been good collaboration between academic institutions and civic and business organisations, and that work continues. Anybody involved in that would say that it has been beneficial to both jurisdictions. However, we do not have the same connectivity with businesses and civic and academic society in Scotland, Wales, the north of England or Manchester. We know that those places have many challenges and opportunities that are similar to those that we face here.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the British-Irish Council meeting, we talked about the need to invest in AI and digital technology skills at the earliest opportunity in primary schools. We are forward-looking to the time when, hopefully, we get significant growth through our driving that economic strategy, but, importantly, we must have the right people with the right skills to take up those opportunities. No matter what industries or strategies we have, Northern Ireland's biggest strength is its people, their skills and what they can contribute, and that is very much at the heart of everything that we do.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Last week, we saw the launch of the UK's industrial strategy, which highlighted key priority areas across the UK. Those areas align very closely with NI's industrial strategic approach. The Member is right: the creative industries are a big area, as are advanced engineering and manufacturing and digital technology, and we are a global leader in cybersecurity. We want to build on those things, and, at the heart of that, we believe that they are the growth industries of the future. Therefore, it is about investing in those industries, which may be our small to medium-sized businesses, attracting foreign direct investment in those areas and, importantly, investing in young people to make sure that they have the skills.”
“We have seen no significant benefit from it thus far. Companies are interested in it, but there has not been a benefit thus far. Nevertheless, the UK Government must step up and remove the internal barriers to internal UK trade.”
“That has not yet happened. They need to take that opportunity. As the UK develops alignment or arrangements with the European Union, such as what is proposed in the sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) deal, that will remove some of the so-called uniqueness from the arguments about having the best of both worlds with dual market access.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. As he will be aware, there is a range of different views across our office. Personally speaking, I absolutely agree with him. I raised, as did he and many others, concerns about the so-called best of both worlds. It felt much more like the worst of both worlds, and I think that that, unfortunately, has played out for businesses in that they have faced absolutely disproportionate and unnecessary checks, bureaucracy and barriers to internal trade. The reason why the European Union so stoically and passionately defends its internal single market is because it is precious. The UK ought to have done the same with its internal market and should not have so carelessly tossed it away in the negotiations. <BR /> <BR />The UK Government promised to restore the integrity of the UK internal market.”
“A lot of our programmes would work really well in the other areas of deprivation and challenge that we see right across not just England but Scotland and Wales. There is no doubt that we could also learn from some of the innovative work that is happening there. It is always important in all these things that there be a challenge function and that new ideas and fresh thinking come in. There is a really good opportunity for some new thinking and for new people and groups to work collaboratively with ours to try to really tackle the issues. There is no doubt that we really need to do that. It has to be about action and intervention, not just the right words and warm words in the right place. That fund could, undoubtedly, support that important work.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The fund was announced by the NIO on the Thursday of the East-West Council meeting. It is live at the moment, so the details are online. You can go through the application process online. At this stage, it appears to have been developed with maximum flexibility. It could be for individuals who, for example, want to attend conferences on the mainland. Alternatively, it could be for people to come from GB to NI. It could also be for community organisations or civic organisations to reach out and join up or to perhaps do some study visits or similar engagement. Great benefit could come from academic and other link-ups in sharing knowledge, experience and expertise. <BR /> <BR />We have a lot to give.”
“They are not delivering on that. In fact, there is even more paperwork and bureaucracy, regardless of the recently announced UK-EU agreement. The paperwork and bureaucracy are not acceptable, proportionate or necessary, and they need to be removed. The UK Government need to step up and deliver on the promise of unfettered internal UK trade that they made to the people of Northern Ireland.”
“The internal market of the UK is important to Northern Ireland — not just to our businesses but to our consumers when it comes to consumer choice. Over the past week, we have seen even more bureaucracy come in. We have heard already today about agricultural machinery coming back from the Royal Highland Show and being stopped because of tightened requirements, and we have seen tweets from the head of Marks and Spencer in which he has talked about 300 to 400 additional lines having to go through the red lane and about the additional bureaucracy, which, in his view, is entirely unnecessary. I agree with him. I have said this before, and I will say it again very clearly: the UK Government promised in what they set out on the Windsor framework in 'Safeguarding the Union' that there would be unfettered internal UK trade.”
“I thank the Member for her important question. There are two elements to that. First, all the companies that withdraw from our market do so because they do not understand the current trading relationships or believe them to be more complex than they are. Intertrade UK will have an important role in trying to bust some of those myths to encourage that trade to continue. That is what is best for our businesses, and that is what is best for our consumers. There is also an opportunity for Intertrade UK to promote our excellent goods to the rest of the UK, particularly in the agri-food sector and other sectors. <BR /> <BR />We are also seeing another real problem. I am sure that, like myself, the Member is continually contacted by companies about the unnecessary bureaucracy that people are facing with the internal market of the UK.”
“That is not unique to Northern Ireland, sadly; it has happened elsewhere, including across communities in the UK. That is another example of where, through coordination, be that from the various police forces, civic organisations, youth intervention or education, there could be really good opportunities to find solutions by working together in a collaborative way to benefit ourselves, but there could also be opportunities for our organisations to benefit others, be they in Scotland, Wales, the north of England, London or wherever they may be.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There is a huge amount of possibility here. Hopefully, we will be able to see some of that through the Connect Fund, as it rolls out. Very often, many of the challenges that we face here are common across the rest of the UK, be that around trying to increase productivity, attract foreign direct investment or the challenges of tackling educational underachievement. We know that, for example, we have an exceptional third sector in Northern Ireland. We want that sector to be given opportunities to connect with other community and third-sector organisations across the rest of the UK to share that learning. <BR /> <BR />Over the past number of weeks, it has been hugely disappointing to see disorder and racism on the streets of Northern Ireland.”
“That is a critical element of the draft international relations strategy that is under development in the Department. We are hopeful of having sight of a final strategy very shortly and aim to have it agreed, presented and published early in the autumn.”
“We had a determination that that should not happen again, hence this formal structure to raise, in a formal way, issues pertaining to Northern Ireland within the UK context. <BR /> <BR />The Member is correct that there is an element of the terms of reference, particularly with the work of Intertrade UK, that involves attracting foreign direct investment to Northern Ireland. While our international relationships are not devolved per se, we have a role in the international space. Some of that is about attracting international investment — foreign direct investment — and part of that is around the soft diplomacy piece and reaching out through our bureaux, making sure that there is awareness of Northern Ireland, be that through sport, golf or our businesses, and taking part in those trade missions.”
“I thank the Member for her question. She will be aware that this is a body that looks exclusively at the internal relationships of the UK. There was a gap, in my view, in what arose from the various negotiations. We had the British-Irish Council, which deals with all the jurisdictions, including the Republic of Ireland, and we had the North/South Ministerial Council, which deals with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, but we did not have a body that looked at Northern Ireland's particular place within the United Kingdom. Over the course of the Brexit negotiations and discussions, we, sadly, saw how carelessly Northern Ireland's place within the internal market of the UK was treated by the then UK Government.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that 'Safeguarding the Union' is a White Paper that was produced by the UK Government. That followed a series of negotiations and set out the framework for restoration of this place. The commitments made in that paper are critical to the continued stability of this place. Of course, the UK Government should step up. <BR /> <BR />At the heart of that, of course, is a commitment by the UK Government, supported by the shadow Labour Government of the time, to ensure unfettered trade across and within the United Kingdom. That is not happening. That promise was made not just to the political parties in Northern Ireland but to the people of Northern Ireland. The UK Government must step up and remove any existing barriers to internal trade across the United Kingdom.”
“We welcomed the establishment of the fund and urged for it to be operated in a way that is complementary to the support provided to the voluntary and community sector. We acknowledged the potential benefits that can arise even from small amounts of financial support, as the voluntary and community sector here has much expertise to share. We hope that the fund will enable organisations to make valuable and long-lasting contacts with others across the UK on issues of mutual interest and concern. <BR /> <BR />That concludes the statement.”
“We also emphasised the need for Northern Ireland considerations to be embedded formally and as early as possible in the development of trade policy and that we should be active participants in UK trade missions and promotional activities. <BR /> <BR />The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State advised the Council of the launch of the Connect Fund, which is a £1 million fund administered by the Northern Ireland Office and will provide grants to community organisations here for activities that will strengthen east-west connections through the development of civic relationships, support for cultural and sporting links and the enabling of dialogue on areas of mutual interest with their counterparts in other UK jurisdictions.”
“The Council received a briefing from members of Intertrade UK on its draft programme of work and priority projects for the first 12 to 18 months of activity. Those will be taken forward under three key themes: promoting trade in goods and services across the UK and overcoming identified barriers; trade opportunities; and infrastructure and connectivity. <BR /> <BR />We welcomed the important role that Intertrade UK could play by researching and building an evidence base on barriers to trade and inefficient processes and promoting better information for businesses in GB on how the trading arrangements with NI actually work, as reluctance to supply to Northern Ireland can often arise simply from a lack of understanding.”
“The Council's missions are set out in the 'Safeguarding the Union' paper: economic inactivity; east-west investment and trade flows; improving international investment in Northern Ireland; bolstering east-west institutional connectivity and promoting professional and high-skill pathways; and identifying opportunities for deepening connections between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. <BR /> <BR />Noting the positive context of the UK Government's commitment to reset relationships with the devolved Governments, we welcomed the opportunities that the Council will provide for Northern Ireland interests to engage formally and directly with their counterparts in GB to share knowledge and to build and, indeed, rebuild relationships following a volatile period.”
“Its objectives will be to provide regular and sustained engagement between the UK Government and representatives from Northern Ireland across a wide range of economic and social activity; take forward the Council's agreed missions; raise the profile of the opportunities offered by Northern Ireland by supporting connectivity and connections; drive UK-wide engagement on the development and sharing of existing clusters of excellence; and ensure that the profile of Northern Ireland is appropriately considered in business and government decision-making.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. The First Minister and I attended the second meeting of the East-West Council, which took place in Belfast on 12 June. The meeting was co-chaired by the Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, and the Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Fleur Anderson MP, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, was also present. <BR /> <BR />The Council formally agreed its terms of reference, including its purpose, objectives and missions. The Council's stated purpose is to strengthen cooperation between Northern Ireland and other parts of the UK by advising on shared challenges and opportunities that have an east-west dimension.”
“There is an opportunity for the British-Irish Council to accelerate that work in every jurisdiction by looking at a common ethical framework for it. Then, a Department or public body will measure any application that they are looking at against the key principles and ethics of that framework before they move forward with it.”
“Undoubtedly, there are risks and challenges. If you are using any kind of technological or digital application, you will want to make sure that people's data is kept secure, that that data is used ethically and properly and that the application is reliable and does not allow bias, prejudice or flaws to get into it that can skew the outcome. We are aware of a number of challenges, and we are also very aware that a lot of the technologies are at a very early stage and that their applications have not been sufficiently tested. We need to take care with that. The starting block for that is to set out an ethical framework to which all Departments, public bodies and the public sector should work. We should be able to collaborate on that, not just across the UK but across these isles.”
“We do not use that extensively in government: if we did, we would have to do so within an ethical framework. There is no doubt that there are opportunities with that. <BR /> <BR />There is a lot of discussion about the quality that comes out of AI. It is really important that, if we are using AI in the public sector, we are using reliable forms of it and not just open forms of it that, as we know, are not quite where they need to be. I have no doubt that we will get there within a very short period.”
“There are undoubted benefits. I mentioned how Microsoft Copilot can simply summarise a document. Of course, that needs to be cross-checked. Over the past couple of weeks, most of us have had work experience pupils with us. When I talk to young people about my time studying at Queen's University for my law degree, I tell them that, to get a case, you went to the library, found the relevant volume of the 'All England Law Reports' and found it on page 187 or whatever it was. That is completely foreign to the new generation: they simply put it into the computer, and, bing, it is there. That is moving on even faster because of the ability to take complex documents and judgements and get AI to summarise them and put together, for example, briefings, press releases and press lines.”
“If the sun shines, which it hopefully will, that will be a real showcase for Northern Ireland, but even if it does not, it will still show the remarkable and beautiful landscape that we have and and are very proud of. Golf is a really good way to showcase that landscape, not just in the north coast but in the Mourne region, through the fantastic golf courses there.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that the Shared Island Fund finances some of the shared tourism projects. We have that shared tourism offering and there is a body that provides marketing and support. I am really proud of our Mourne region and our Causeway coast. Those are strong brands in their own right. There has been a huge amount of investment, not just through the councils but Northern Ireland-wide, in promoting those brands, and it is important that they be protected. The Member will be surprised to hear how well known they are, and I welcome the fact that, in just a short number of weeks, we will have the Open coming to our wonderful Causeway Coast and Glens area.”
“We host the summit only every four years, so it is really important that we pick the right location in order to showcase the best of here. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that Northern Ireland is well placed to be a leader in AI and in technological advances. From speaking to her, I know that our Chief Scientific and Technology Adviser firmly believes that we are really well placed to lead on that work. It was really interesting, however, to hear from the other jurisdictions, because it is clear that they are all really focusing on AI. They are all looking at their AI strategies, but, from our engagement with Professor Helen, we know that she is clear that we are well placed to become a world leader, provided that we do the work that we need to do now and get that started sooner rather than later.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It was an absolutely wonderful setting for the BIC summit. On the Thursday evening, we were hosting the pre-summit dinner, and it was very cloudy outside. The Mountains of Mourne sweeping down to the sea could not be seen at all. Fortunately, the clouds cleared, and the feedback was really positive. I thank the hotel and its staff for what was an excellent conference and summit. It was really professionally run, and we have written to the hotel to convey our thanks. It was held in a fantastic location, and many people commented on the beauty of the Mourne region. We encouraged them to come back and spend their well-earned money on tourism in the Mourne area and more widely across Northern Ireland. The summit was important, and it was good that we had the opportunity to hold it.”
“How AI opportunities can contribute to transformation is a good example of where we can learn about things above and beyond the specific list through collaborative working and building relationships.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that there are a number of specified areas, but there is also the opportunity for flexibility. Particularly in the bilateral sessions and discussions, we find that the work goes wider than the formal themes. AI is a really good example of that. According to the specific list, we look at creative industries issues as they relate to health; education; early years; energy; indigenous, minority and lesser-used languages; drugs and alcohol; planning and places; social inclusion; transport; and housing. That is an extensive list of specific areas, but, as has been indicated in the many statements that we have made to the House, the work goes beyond that list.”
“It will form the basis of our strategy and the initial work of our office of AI and digital. It will also identify the opportunities and challenges that we need to overcome by rolling out real action.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He will know from his work that the issue extends much further than the British Isles. Every jurisdiction is looking at AI's potential. When it comes to how to use that potential, the Welsh Government's First Minister outlined some of the opportunities that are associated with Copilot and how those can be used. We absolutely want to collaborate. The Chief Scientific and Technology Adviser leads our task and finish group. Just a couple of weeks ago, we launched an office of AI and digital, but its work will be informed by Professor Helen's work through the task and finish group. I take the opportunity to pay tribute to the many experts in the field, many of whom are from the private sector, who are giving of their time freely to contribute to that work, which, we understand, will be extensive.”
“We often talk about harnessing the opportunities of AI, but we cannot talk about that without recognising the risks. For example, concerns have been raised about the use of data: people taking the intellectual property of others and using it in their programs. It is really important — this was discussed at length at the meeting — to set out ethical frameworks for government before we go too extensively down the road of using and deploying AI across our public services. We want to reassure people that our use of AI is ethical, that their data is secured and, indeed, that what we are using is consistent and reliable.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I indicated, we discussed a number of examples of that in AERA and in the health and education sectors. There has also been an extensive roll-out of Microsoft Copilot on our computers. First of all, it is about reassurance. There is no doubt that AI can create efficiencies and increase productivity. That is not about threatening people's jobs; it is about making sure that people can be upskilled or redeployed into other areas of essential work in order to accelerate public-service transformation and the roll-out of better public services. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right about the ethical approach, however. There are risks with AI, and I put on the record that we recognise that.”
“That is the value of these summits: the opportunity to have those bilaterals and talk about the specific issues. <BR /> <BR />Discussions with the likes of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man were much more about collaboration on issues such as AI. For example, there were really good conversations about how the new digitisation programme in the health sector could, through shared learning, be rolled out to some of the smaller jurisdictions. There was really good engagement across the piece.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I have no doubt that she is aware that we never miss an opportunity to raise a long list of issues. There is Executive consensus on many of those issues, such as the funding pressures that we are under. We took the opportunity to raise directly with the Rt Hon Pat McFadden, whose role it is to coordinate the devolved regions and nations, our concerns about, for example, National Insurance contributions, the Budget, the spending review and our need for capital investment to enable us to grow. We also raised concerns about the impact of some of the announcements in recent Budget statements and events, such as the increase in employers' contributions and the impact that that is having on our economy, as well as the removal of relief on agricultural inheritance. We raised a wide range of issues.”
“While it can be a useful tool, for example in diagnostics, we want the human element in order to make sure that it is operating as it should. I have no doubt that the Health Minister will come forward with more ideas on that, but there was consensus around embracing the opportunities, particularly in relation to the big challenges that we face in health, education and other public services.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We looked at that matter in the broader sense, but there were a number of specific examples, and a number of the First Ministers and other contributors took the opportunity to highlight some of the engagement that they have had with AI, including in health. There is no doubt that there is opportunity in diagnostics. With the advances that are happening not just month by month but almost week by week, it makes absolute sense that we embrace those changes but do so in a way that provides security for the people who are subject to it, making sure that systems are reliable and that the people operating them are sufficiently trained and know what they are doing in interfacing with AI.”
“All the jurisdictions, nations and regions are having those conversations, and it makes a lot of sense for us to collaborate in this area, not only on the frameworks for an ethical approach but on how best to push forward with the use of AI technologies and the upskilling of people to make sure that we streamline and transform our public services. <BR /> <BR />On the East-West Council, we are very clear on the framework for that. It is our responsibility to update the House on significant engagements, meetings and developments. That is why we will update the House on that key meeting in due course.”
“The leader of the Opposition is embracing the last week of the Assembly term with his usual optimism and positivity. There was detail in the statement. There was a very extensive discussion about AI at the summit. There was clear consensus between all the Administrations that technological advances in AI are happening all around us and that AI, therefore, ought not to be ignored by Governments. It is important not only that we harness the potential of and opportunities presented by AI but that, as Governments, we are aware of the challenges associated with AI, particularly in relation to ethics and data. It was a really useful conversation.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Council discussed international topics of mutual interest and recognised the fact that coming together in the spirit of partnership and cooperation at occasions such as the BIC summit is all the more important in the context of global developments. <BR /> <BR />Finally, the Council noted that the next BIC summit will be hosted by the Welsh Government in late 2025.”
“We were pleased to advise members of our Programme for Government's being agreed, and we highlighted the biggest challenges that we face, including tackling hospital waiting times; childcare; affordable housing; growing the economy; and the transformation of public services. We expressed concern about the ongoing challenging fiscal situation, in spite of the spending review, and spoke of our ongoing commitment to seeking a fair and sustainable level of funding that reflects our relative need. In addition to that, we highlighted the impact that changes to welfare reform, inheritance tax and employers' National Insurance contributions have on our economy. We stated that we would continue to make our case to the UK Government for the reversal of decisions relating to those.”
“AI should empower rather than replace and enhance rather than diminish the capabilities of all those in the workplace. All Administrations agree that AI must be handled correctly if it is to make public service more responsive, productive and aligned to people's real needs. <BR /> <BR />Council members briefed colleagues on significant developments in their Administrations and reflected on a number of domestic and international topics of mutual interest. We took the opportunity to update attendees on the Executive's progress since the Council last met, which was in December of last year.”