Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“As the Member will be aware, the processes set out that there will be consideration of that. The scrutiny Committee will also be helpful in looking at whether an amendment or a proposed new regulation will create any barriers. The new mechanism, previously described as the Stormont brake, has two distinct elements, depending on whether the EU act is an amendment or a proposed new regulation. The purpose of that mechanism is to allow the House to have scrutiny, either through the Committees, through the ministerial roles or through debate in this Chamber. Of course, a duty falls on the First Minister and I to consider whether to move that forward, and, in that consideration, we will look at all the aspects, particularly in relation to whether a new regulatory barrier would be created North/South or east-west.”
“When notifications are received that propose the addition of a new EU act to the Windsor framework, there is a two-week period in which the First Minister and I, acting jointly, may decide to table an applicability motion. After that two-week period, an applicability motion may only be tabled by any other Member of the Assembly, and a vote will be held before the end of a five-week period following the notifications being made. A decision to jointly table an applicability motion for newly published EU acts will be considered on a case-by-case basis.”
“There is also the very exciting New Gate Arts and Culture Centre, which everybody in the city will be aware of. That is a very significant new build with a very exciting programme coming up. There has been lots of very positive work, and we will learn from that as we move into phase 2 of Urban Villages.”
“Really pleasing progress has been made on the Derry/Londonderry Urban Villages area. It was one of the very first areas that I visited back when I was junior Minister when we were creating the scheme. It was very clear when we visited all the areas impacted that there was a significant degree of dereliction and of support required. One of the key things that was said to me, particularly in the Cathedral Youth Club, which I visited, was that there were lots of ideas about how to improve the area. The local community knew the solutions to some of the challenges that it faced, but it was often very difficult to find the appropriate scheme because the criteria were quite exclusionary. <BR /> <BR />There are some really good examples, including the Fountain play park and the work that is being done to the Cathedral Youth Club.”
“Therefore, we want to maximise buy-in to the project.”
“The project will be subject to a community consultation in spring 2024. There will be a 12-week statutory standstill period on the designs to allow for community feedback. That is quite a lengthy period, but we want to ensure that the local community has maximum buy-in and that it has an opportunity to look at the proposals and is content with them. Importantly, if those proposals are not going to work for the local community, we will take them away, genuinely listen to the issues that have been raised and amend them before substantive work commences. We are aware that a 12-week consultation period will delay the commencement of work on the site, but it is important because Urban Villages has, at its very heart, the key principle that the projects are co-designed and co-produced with the local community and local stakeholders.”
“As the Member will be aware, the first phase of Urban Villages is now coming to an end, including a number of the revenue resource projects. There have been challenges in relation to some of the capital proposals, and this is one of those. Some of those challenges, as we know, can be unexpected. There can be significant barriers to progressing projects in the timescales that were originally set out, and that was certainly the case here. I welcome the fact that we were able to purchase the site in accordance with the Land and Property Services valuation. That purchase will enable work to progress at pace. The First Minister and I are very focused on the issue. We will be asking for regular updates to ensure that the project happens as quickly as possible, particularly as we are moving towards phase 2 of Urban Villages.”
“The redevelopment of Meenan Square is a transformative capital project of approximately £1·2 million in the Bogside/Fountain Urban Villages area. The aim of the scheme is to improve good relations outcomes and develop a thriving place where there has been a history of deprivation and community tension. The project, which is being delivered by the Executive Office's Urban Villages initiative in conjunction with Apex Housing Association and Meenan Square Developments Ltd, will see the construction of a mixed-use development comprising housing, a community hub and essential local amenities. The project will be subject to a formal planning application in summer 2024. Work is anticipated to commence on site by late 2025, subject to planning approval.”
“Where it is logical and sits within the appropriate parameters of the institutions, we should, of course, have that positive engagement.”
“As I indicated, it was an initial meeting. Sectoral work on many of the issues that were discussed went on throughout that period. All the sectoral bodies were quorate and able to continue with some of their work. The issues that were discussed were those that, rightly, fall within the areas of responsibility of the North/South Ministerial Council. Those include the Ulster canal and the continued funding of the A5 project. A number of important issues and collaborative projects have been in the pipeline for some considerable time. I know that it has been the cause of frustration for many people, including in the Chamber, that those projects have not progressed. It is important that we continue to collaborate on those matters. As I said at the meeting, it is important that we are good neighbours to the Irish Government.”
“I absolutely support full transparency in the work of the East-West Council. It is a body that was, perhaps, missed at the time of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement. Under those arrangements, we had Ireland and United Kingdom bodies and the North/South bodies, but we did not have a body dedicated to focusing on internal UK relationships and arrangements. With this new body, there is huge potential for engagement with not just the UK Government but the north of England, Manchester, Scotland and Wales, with whom we have a huge amount of commonality in many of the challenges and opportunities that we face. I fully support full transparency and all the procedures around that to ensure that Members are fully informed about the exciting work that this body will take forward.”
“The North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC), sectoral bodies and associated work are all rooted in the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement as amended by the St Andrews Agreement. That means that they are focused on the stranded approach. That is right and proper. It sets the parameters for that work. That work recognises that the internal affairs and matters of Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom are a matter for the Northern Ireland and United Kingdom Government. Of course, for work that does align with the Programme for Government within the context of that stranded approach, the appropriate areas of work will be aligned as far as possible.”
“We are considering a process of identifying Executive nominees to the boards of the North/South implementation bodies. We intend for the Executive nominees to vacancies on the boards of North/South bodies to be progressed in the forthcoming weeks and months, and for appointments to be made at the sectoral meetings.”
“<BR /> <BR />Obviously, we will go into more detail on the types of projects that seem to have worked very well, but, importantly, what we need to do is learn from that and ensure that we are pulling forward that best practice, not just into the third phase of CIT but into a number of other programmes that we are working on in communities to build that community resilience, because, of course, what works here to build that resilience and social capital in those communities will work with a range of other projects that the Executive are focusing on.”
“There were a number of key themes in the programme, including community development, health and well-being, environment and culture, community safety and policing, personal transition, addressing the needs of young people and expansion of restorative practices. I am pleased to say that, following that in-depth consultation and evaluation of this over the past number of weeks and months, there has been positive feedback on the outcomes of working with communities.”
“It is welcome that we have had the opportunity today to mark the appalling atrocity that happened at Kingsmills. We know that it has been a long and difficult journey for the families. The coroner confirmed that it was a deeply sectarian attack. Certainly, personally speaking, I have absolutely no issue with standing here and saying very clearly that all terrorism is wrong. There was always an alternative. I certainly urge all members of the Executive to do the same.”
“That is why that consultation and evaluation is important to inform the way forward into CIT phase 3, which must take into account some of the issues that the Member has raised.”
“As I said in my initial answer, in this phase of CIT, we will have £2·3 million to invest this year. That is building on the work of the previous two years. We are now moving towards phase 3 of CIT. A consultation has been under way for some time, looking at which projects have been most effective and why some of the projects that have been supported have, perhaps, not been as effective as it was hoped that they would be. That is all set within the matrix of the key principles of CIT. As I indicated, those are about building community resilience, working with communities and young people, and the transitioning of young people, through sport, training and other initiatives, towards positive futures. Many of those projects are based on best practice, but, as we know, that does not guarantee that they will work.”
“It is important to note that, in those communities, there are many fantastic examples of community work, organisations, young people, families and community activity, so areas should not be simply viewed through the prism of the criminality and other aspects that have plagued them for some considerable time.”
“There is undoubtedly a significant amount of criminality from some individuals and organisations, but there are uniquely Northern Ireland aspects involved, because some of the organisations have their roots and origins in our past and in the Troubles. Of course, that brings a particular dimension to the situation. That is why the programme takes that into account. As I indicated, a light touch is certainly not being applied to criminality. The programme is in place to work alongside the PSNI and support it in tackling criminality and to have a zero-tolerance approach to criminality, drug dealing and other abuses in communities: those abuses that bring our communities down.”
“There have been 156 social action projects delivered already. Those projects account for 9,000 participants. The Member will be aware that the projects are not to replace but to supplement and complement PSNI activities to tackle criminality. They are therefore projects that work very much with the community on building community resilience and community capacity and on encouraging young people in those communities to pursue positive and progressive pathways, particularly through training, education and sport, into employment. It is vital that those communities have that bright future and that they feel the dividend from a peaceful and stable Northern Ireland. That is what the projects have been focused on.”
“It is always difficult, because a boundary is drawn around certain areas that either qualify or do not qualify, and sometimes it can, of course, be as simple as a house to a house or a street to a street. We therefore try to show flexibility in many of the Executive Office programmes. For Urban Villages, for example, we were able to adopt that flexible approach. I agree with the Member that there should be flexibility in the CIT project as it moves forward. We are undertaking the evaluation of phase 2, and that evaluation will inform phase 3. The matter raised by the Member has certainly come up, and I have heard her on that issue.”
“If we are to bring about lasting change and release all communities from the grip of paramilitary control, we need to continue to adopt a holistic approach to tackling systemic issues and work in partnership with our local communities.”
“Through Communities in Transition, we are determined to build a safer society, free from the negative influences of paramilitarism, criminality and coercive control. The tackling paramilitarism, criminality and organised crime (TPCOC) programme has been extended into 2024-25, following a commitment from the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. The programme will invest £2·3 million in CIT for 2024-25, subject to the agreement of the Executive's Budget for this year. CIT has delivered 82 projects, totalling £19 million, across the eight CIT areas. Some 51 projects have been completed, and the remaining 31 contracts are continuing into 2024-25, with a renewed focus on the main issues impacting on communities from paramilitarism, criminality and coercive control.”
“I pay tribute not only to the families of Kingsmills who have had to battle incredibly hard, justice being denied, but to all families who have done the same. Throughout Northern Ireland there are many thousands of victims and their families who have never had justice. Like so many victims and survivors, that hurt and pain continues to this day. <BR /> <BR />There are many who say that we need simply to move on, but we can never move on while forgetting the incredible sacrifice that was made and the terrible, appalling actions of the past. I want to be clear here today. The coroner confirmed what many people knew already: the IRA Kingsmills massacre was sectarian. There was never any justification. It was, in my view, a war crime. Terrorism was always wrong, and there was always an alternative.”
“I welcome the opportunity to stand here today with so many and mark that appalling atrocity. Over the years, it has been my huge privilege to work with so many families, victims and survivors, including some of those who were affected by the IRA massacre at Kingsmills.”
“It is about celebration through real actions, based on evidence, and making a meaningful change in people's lives.”
“<BR /> <BR />Other achievements include the establishment of five Urban Villages areas; the building of 2,500 shared homes; 27,000 people taking part in the Uniting Communities programme of sport and creative events; and 7,800 young people participating in the United Youth programme. I could go on. Reference was made to the Limavady shared education campus. That was not a photo call about digging up some ground. It was a celebration of what has been achieved. I sat in that hall and saw young people who were so proud of who they are and their traditions, coming together and respecting each other. That is the very manifestation of what we, as an Executive, need to do, which is to deliver on building the brighter and united shared future that I know that we can have. It is not about denying who we are.”
“When I speak to young people about what I am proudest of in politics, I tell them that it is the work that I did in that area. It is about the lives that have been changed through that programme, and the resulting relationships and greater understanding across divides. I want us to get to the position where we no longer talk about friendships, relationships and understanding across the divide. We need to just talk about those friendships in a Northern Ireland where our differences are celebrated, and where they can be a strength. That is not something to be intimidated by: our cultural identities here should be celebrated and respected across all aspects, new and old.”
“I am very conscious of time. Unfortunately, Question Time is at 2.00 pm. <BR /> <BR />I am really proud of what the Together: Building a United Community strategy has achieved. I am not scared to say that, at times, I feel very emotional when I see the incredible benefit and change that it has brought about. Thirty thousand young people have taken part in more than 900 T:BUC camps. Look at how many of those young people have had robust and enduring relationships beyond that programme. That is the legacy of T:BUC. <BR /> <BR />Some Members said that just having photo ops and getting out there and sending out a positive message is not good enough. I absolutely agree that that is not good enough: we want to deliver. T:BUC has delivered.”
“In 2007, upon the restoration of the Assembly, there was a keenness from the Ministers in the then OFMDFM to get together and produce the first good relations strategy for Northern Ireland. We had the shared future strategy, and you will be aware that there were criticisms of it. I liked Mike Nesbitt's reference to the big human blender: there was a sense that everything would be thrown in and that what would come out would be beige, and that, in order to get on, we would need to strip away who we are and hide our identities. The Together: Building a United Community strategy marked a significant change in that regard: it contained a sense of respect for the celebration of those identities. <BR /> <BR />I am deeply proud of what we were able to achieve.”
“While I am deeply proud and confident of who I am, and I want to share that cultural identity with others, I also recognise that I ought to and must give that respect to others. It does not take away from who I am, what my identity is or what my heritage and history are to give that respect to others. Likewise, I demand that respect from others. <BR /> <BR />Those agreed principles formed the basis of the Together: Building a United Community strategy, also known as T:BUC, which was published in May 2013. It was significant that, as referenced by Sinéad McLaughlin, from 1998 and the signing of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, the institutions here had failed to produce a good relations strategy. It was very difficult to get consensus on that across the parties.”
“They limit potential and hold us back from thriving as individuals and as a society. There are many issues in this space, however, on which we agree. We all want our children and young people to grow up safely and with equal opportunity to achieve their full potential. We want them to be free to embrace and express their own culture while being respectful and tolerant of the culture of others. <BR /> <BR />I am deeply proud of who I am. I always say that culture is not something that I do; it is something that I am. It is about going to the things that express my identity, enjoying the music and the traditions, learning about history and celebrating my identity. A sense of identity and cultural aspects enriches us as individuals, enriches our families and enriches our communities, and it should be celebrated.”
“Absolutely, and T:BUC is not a stand-alone project. To make that absolutely clear, one of our signature projects, for example, was the removal of peace walls. That fell to DOJ, which, then, had an Alliance Minister. It was difficult, I have to say, to get the Department to take it on at that time. The point, which I made directly to the Minister at the time, is that good relations is not only an Executive Office — then OFMDFM — matter. The section 75 duty is on each and every one of us and all public bodies; it is not just a departmental matter. The section 75(2) duty is a separable one and a wide one, and it needs to be recognised by all our public bodies. <BR /> <BR />That said, division, poor relations and lack of acceptance and tolerance all bring costs to our society.”
“I will in a moment. <BR /> <BR />Working hand in hand with officials, we were able to create the signature projects that have now been rolled out. The T:BUC strategy is under review, and we will, of course, be moving to develop it further.”
“As a special adviser, I had the great privilege of being the policy lead on good relations and had a key role in drafting and supporting the production of 'Together: Building a United Community'. In particular, working hand in hand with officials —”
“I have had the huge privilege of getting out there and speaking to the many people who deliver those projects, sometimes on behalf of the Executive Office, on behalf of the Peace programmes or other external funds, or with a combination of funding from councils and Departments. It really is incredible. They are doing the work on the coal face, sometimes with the hardest to reach young people and communities, and really producing fabulous and fantastic results. I want to recognise that and recognise how far we have come, and I will get to some of the figures arising out of the key Together: Building a United Community actions. <BR /> <BR />This is an area that I am deeply passionate about. I worked in it for many years.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will try to speak very quickly. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to be afforded the opportunity to respond to the motion. First, I offer my apologies for being late for the beginning of the debate and for missing Ms Bradshaw's contribution. I was at the North/South Ministerial Council. We tried to get here as quickly as we could, but, unfortunately, we were late. <BR /> <BR />We should never underestimate or minimise the challenges involved in building a truly reconciled future, but I want to start on a positive note by recognising the incredible work that many thousands of organisations, people, workers, youth workers, churches, teachers and schools do in the area of building good relations. It really is incredible.”
“<BR /> <BR />In closing, I want to champion all our mummies, grannies, sisters and friends, the people who are there for other women and who do incredible work. They are the bedrock of our schools, community groups, families and churches. This week has been a recognition of that, and I pay tribute to them. As we move forward together, I hope that we give that confidence to the new generation and that we see plenty of little female politicians coming up through the ranks in all parties.”
“Absolutely. It is fantastic to see so many women elected across different political parties. While I am incredibly proud of the heritage and history that I have and the incredibly strong women who played that role in shaping Northern Ireland, standing up for their politics and stepping forward, it is also about that message that we can be absolutely proud of who we are. I am not just proud of being a unionist; I am proud of being a woman. That means, of course, that we should have the confidence to embrace the stories, the heritage and the traditions of others. I love to hear the stories about our history and heritage — we have touched on some of them, and I have no doubt that we will hear many more — but, of course, this is about moving forward.”
“Again, that was an incredible role that those women played, shaping the politics of today and stepping forward at a time when many women were probably told to sit back and be quiet. I am incredibly proud of that history and heritage. I want more of our young people to understand and realise that about this place.”
“Those were women who led the way on a pre-partition island of Ireland, north and south, pushing for votes for women. They were women who were often well connected and used their position, their education and their opportunity to push for votes for women. It was the Ulster Women's Unionist Council that secured significant wins in Ireland, north and south, for votes for women. Of course, they did not just stop there. The unionist women of that movement, the biggest female political movement across these isles, went on to the Ulster covenant. A lot of people do not realise this, but the men signed the Ulster covenant and women had their own Ulster covenant declaration. An incredible 234,046 women came out to sign that declaration across this island.”
“Sometimes, we may feel that we are the wrong type of women for some of the movements. I have always stepped forward and said that there should never be a wrong type of woman. I know women who are conservative or deeply conservative or of deep faith, women of all types of faith or perhaps none at all. All women should be welcome as part and parcel of the campaign as we drive forward for a greater understanding and recognition of the incredible work that women do. <BR /> <BR />When I look back to my history, I note that the Ulster women's unionist movement was the biggest movement of women on the island of Ireland of its time and was one of the biggest movements across the world. By 1913, the Ulster Women's Unionist Council had an estimated membership of between 115,000 and 200,000 women.”
“<BR /> <BR />As we celebrated last week, I highlighted the fact that it is called "International Women's Day" but it felt like "international women's week", and that is a great thing. Hopefully, that will continue to grow, perhaps even into "international women's month" as we continue to have events. It is a great opportunity to highlight so many different aspects. It was fantastic to see so many of our community organisations, groups and communities have all of those fantastic events. <BR /> <BR />I come from a long line of strong women who have shaped families, our communities, politics and the very fabric of this place that we call "home". I often say that conservative women or women of faith may not always feel the most welcome with some of the women's movements.”
“I want to add some short words to the debate. International Women's Day is an opportunity to take some time to celebrate women, to mark the achievements of women and to call out the continued harms and challenges that many women face. I am deeply proud of being a woman, and, as I said last week, I am proud of being a strong woman, I am proud of being a feisty woman, and I am proud of being a fierce woman at times. Of course, we know that women come in many shapes and sizes, with many different views and perspectives. I also hope that I am a kind woman and a compassionate woman. We all know so many different people, and, of course, we do not all have to be the same.”
“A date was confirmed for the east-west council. I believe that it is 26 March. That will take place in Belfast, but the details will be released very shortly. We are working closely with the UK Government on the new infrastructure, which provides really exciting opportunities for greater collaboration across and throughout the United Kingdom.”
“I understand, however, that it is a restricted programme, due to those discussions. I understand that the relationships are working well and that constructive conversations are happening. Getting the local council, as the body that will eventually take ownership of it, involved in that may well help to develop that local culture and music programme for the entire community.”
“The Member will be aware that this is subject to contractual arrangements with those who are now currently resident on the site and have businesses on it. Officials have been working constructively. I understand that there is now going to be an entertainments programme over the course of the summer and the next financial year, and I welcome that.”
“We have worked very closely with the site and have made a significant multi-million-pound investment in it. There is lots of exciting opportunity and some exciting events have already taken place. The Member is absolutely right. The overall strategic direction for Ebrington was to transfer that to the local council and for the council to bring forward the events and entertainment scheduled for the site. There have been some difficulties in the last number of years with this, but we want the site to be an economic driver, albeit working with those who have invested and are on the site. We want the site to maximise its potential. Ultimately, the aim is to transfer that site to the local council, but we are happy to work with local stakeholders and the council to see what we can do in the meantime to maximise its potential.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It would be good to meet with him and perhaps some local stakeholders. As we said to the Committee just last week, we are keen to get out of Belfast and get out and about. I am a Markethill girl, and there is a Tyrone woman, so we are keen to get out. Investment in the Belfast area is vitally important, and we support it, but of course we need to bring prosperity to all parts of Northern Ireland. We are keen to get up and speak to the local stakeholders about what we can do to support them in realising and maximising the potential of that site for the area.”